Hi everyone

[AndyW]

Hi everyone,

Introducing myself here and hoping to find some intellectual stimulation. Been fascinated by Socionics for a while now, and have noticed some very interesting real-life applications!

Speak to you all soon,
Andy

[naiad]

Helloand welcome

[Adam Strange]

Welcome. Your avatar pic looks very LII.

[ElderPepper]

Hello Andy,

Always free to share thoughts here and we are glad to share ours. Welcome home.

[AndyW]

Thanks everyone. I've been applying the lens of Socionics to various people I know, and it's quite scary how accurate it's been.

I had my dad (an ILI) pooh-pooh the whole concept of Socionics and tell me to get real in a conversation with me over lunch...right before he asked me where I saw myself being in 5 years' time. Hello leading Ni, nice to meet you!

Also, I typed EII-2Ne in a retest the other day...I'm super-close to the Fi/Ti boundary (24/26 split respectively on the test that gave me LII-3Ne). Right now I'm going through the information elements and seeing which best applies to me, since I seem to be a bit schizophrenic in this regard.

[Adam Strange]

Thanks everyone. I've been applying the lens of Socionics to various people I know, and it's quite scary how accurate it's been.

I had my dad (an ILI) pooh-pooh the whole concept of Socionics and tell me to get real in a conversation with me over lunch...right before he asked me where I saw myself being in 5 years' time. Hello leading Ni, nice to meet you!

Also, I typed EII-2Ne in a retest the other day...I'm super-close to the Fi/Ti boundary (24/26 split respectively on the test that gave me LII-3Ne). Right now I'm going through the information elements and seeing which best applies to me, since I seem to be a bit schizophrenic in this regard.

Welcome to the Machine!

[AndyW]

Actually getting the feeling EII suits me better, with strong LII tendencies as a role function.

[AndyW]

Just did an Enneagram test and got 6w5 sp/so.

[Chae]

Andy Warhol is still alive and sassier than ever? Hello!

[Sol]

another one "eii"

[AndyW]

Andy Warhol is still alive and sassier than ever? Hello!

Trust an IEE to make playful, abstract connections with my username. I saw what you did thar!

[Chae]

Trust an IEE to make playful, abstract connections with my username. I saw what you did thar!

It was the first association I had. Also, NF art club, you know how it is Welcome to the forum.

[AndyW]

So, I just asked my best friend of 20 years to type me using the Socionics test on Sociotype.com and he's come back with LSE-0. What the hell? Is it possible I've been typing myself as my own dual, especially since I've been heavily involved with an EII girl for the last 9 months? This is a bit of a shake-up for me; the guy knows me unbelievably well and when I asked him to explain, he made a lot of really good points.

Firstly, he correctly pointed out that I have a huge predilection for efficiency: when we play games together I'm always analyzing the rules and finding ways to exploit or break the system. I love survival games where I try to build the most efficient and self-sufficient base possible, and I'll often go through dozens of iterations before settling on something. At my most recent temp job, I would absorb the training information and by the end of the 2 weeks of it I was teaching the other people there how to do things. Even when we went into the job proper, I spent most of my time helping my co-workers (and cleaning up their mess when they screwed up). Secondly, he identified my idealization of food and comfort, which I always presumed to be a suggestive function. But I'll cook the same dish 10 days in a row just to perfect the method, and I'll keep that experience in notes for future reference. I keep a calorie-counter and my own budget Excel spreadsheet. Most of my full-time jobs have been in administration in the construction sector, where I kind of like to impose my way of doing things, although I do it by explaining why it's going to be better, not by being a pushy asshole. I get irritated when people don't listen to me, and that actually got me fired from a job a few years ago. The girl I'm close to sends me her architecture work for review, and in the latest one I pointed out her roof had no water drainage system (amusingly) and that the building was a death-trap! Again, I just assumed Te was in my super-id but when I think about it now, it's kind of my raison d'etre. I always feel most fulfilled when I can help people out.

The only things I can argue against having Te/Si in the ego block is I don't really keep my place tidy...actually it's a bit of a bomb site, but that may be related to me being overweight and having a chronic back injury...tidying up hurts, and I'd much rather spend my time studying Socionics, anyway.

I'm not sure if this is a huge eureka moment, or if I'm looking at all this in the wrong way. Thoughts?

[Adam Strange]

So, I just asked my best friend of 20 years to type me using the Socionics test on Sociotype.com and he's come back with LSE-0. What the hell? Is it possible I've been typing myself as my own dual, especially since I've been heavily involved with an EII girl for the last 9 months? This is a bit of a shake-up for me; the guy knows me unbelievably well and when I asked him to explain, he made a lot of really good points.

Firstly, he correctly pointed out that I have a huge predilection for efficiency: when we play games together I'm always analyzing the rules and finding ways to exploit or break the system. I love survival games where I try to build the most efficient and self-sufficient base possible, and I'll often go through dozens of iterations before settling on something. At my most recent temp job, I would absorb the training information and by the end of the 2 weeks of it I was teaching the other people there how to do things. Even when we went into the job proper, I spent most of my time helping my co-workers (and cleaning up their mess when they screwed up). Secondly, he identified my idealization of food and comfort, which I always presumed to be a suggestive function. But I'll cook the same dish 10 days in a row just to perfect the method, and I'll keep that experience in notes for future reference. I keep a calorie-counter and my own budget Excel spreadsheet. Most of my full-time jobs have been in administration in the construction sector, where I kind of like to impose my way of doing things, although I do it by explaining why it's going to be better, not by being a pushy asshole. I get irritated when people don't listen to me, and that actually got me fired from a job a few years ago. The girl I'm close to sends me her architecture work for review, and in the latest one I pointed out her roof had no water drainage system (amusingly) and that the building was a death-trap! Again, I just assumed Te was in my super-id but when I think about it now, it's kind of my raison d'etre. I always feel most fulfilled when I can help people out.

The only things I can argue against having Te/Si in the ego block is I don't really keep my place tidy...actually it's a bit of a bomb site, but that may be related to me being overweight and having a chronic back injury...tidying up hurts, and I'd much rather spend my time studying Socionics, anyway.

I'm not sure if this is a huge eureka moment, or if I'm looking at all this in the wrong way. Thoughts?

I've seen ESTj offices look pretty messy. That's not a deal-breaker.

Everything else is LSE.

Jobs in administration in construction are a strong indicator of LSE. So is telling people how to do their jobs.

But particularly,

Most of my full-time jobs have been in administration in the construction sector, where I kind of like to impose my way of doing things, although I do it by explaining why it's going to be better, not by being a pushy asshole. I get irritated when people don't listen to me, and that actually got me fired from a job a few years ago.

Not knowing when you are being a pushy asshole, even to the point of getting fired for it, is sooooooo LSE.

My recommendation is to stick with jobs which are very well-defined. Construction, old established industries, etc. If you try to go into an area which requires fast, flexible thinking, or supervising fast, flexible thinkers, you might have some problems.

This analysis might sound harsh, but LIE's and LSE's are Kindred, and can easily see each other's faults. Feel free to assess me anytime in return. I'll look at it as constructive criticism.

[Tallmo]

So, I just asked my best friend of 20 years to type me using the Socionics test on Sociotype.com and he's come back with LSE-0. What the hell? Is it possible I've been typing myself as my own dual, especially since I've been heavily involved with an EII girl for the last 9 months? This is a bit of a shake-up for me; the guy knows me unbelievably well and when I asked him to explain, he made a lot of really good points.

Firstly, he correctly pointed out that I have a huge predilection for efficiency: when we play games together I'm always analyzing the rules and finding ways to exploit or break the system. I love survival games where I try to build the most efficient and self-sufficient base possible, and I'll often go through dozens of iterations before settling on something. At my most recent temp job, I would absorb the training information and by the end of the 2 weeks of it I was teaching the other people there how to do things. Even when we went into the job proper, I spent most of my time helping my co-workers (and cleaning up their mess when they screwed up). Secondly, he identified my idealization of food and comfort, which I always presumed to be a suggestive function. But I'll cook the same dish 10 days in a row just to perfect the method, and I'll keep that experience in notes for future reference. I keep a calorie-counter and my own budget Excel spreadsheet. Most of my full-time jobs have been in administration in the construction sector, where I kind of like to impose my way of doing things, although I do it by explaining why it's going to be better, not by being a pushy asshole. I get irritated when people don't listen to me, and that actually got me fired from a job a few years ago. The girl I'm close to sends me her architecture work for review, and in the latest one I pointed out her roof had no water drainage system (amusingly) and that the building was a death-trap! Again, I just assumed Te was in my super-id but when I think about it now, it's kind of my raison d'etre. I always feel most fulfilled when I can help people out.

The only things I can argue against having Te/Si in the ego block is I don't really keep my place tidy...actually it's a bit of a bomb site, but that may be related to me being overweight and having a chronic back injury...tidying up hurts, and I'd much rather spend my time studying Socionics, anyway.

I'm not sure if this is a huge eureka moment, or if I'm looking at all this in the wrong way. Thoughts?

I don't know you, so I can't say, but mistypings like these are not unusual. I met an LSE woman who liked MBTI very much and she told me she was an "INFJ". However, she was a clear LSE "ESTJ". It seems to me that she had been reading the descriptions in a too "factual" way, without considering the actual phenomenon, and comparing herself with enough real people.

I've also met socionics people who have typed themselves as their semi-dual.

[at sirac son of sirac]

Not an LSE but SLI mirror. I relate to telling people what to, my big bug bearer is that things can be done better, more efficiently. It's why I have issues with people lying at work, mostly people lie to cover up the fact they're too lazy, but the lie makes things worse: disinformation means that proceeding examples will also be affected rather than giving truthful information. LSIs mostly get irritated because things don't fit their system. I don't care much for systems as I do for what works or is factually correct. I'm also good at not knowing how to do things, but having enough skills/knowledge to create the solution, but that might be creative Te rather than base Te.

[The Reality Denialist]

Honestly, sounds like your comes from unconscious place in your mind and is particularly strong.
Administrative tendencies. I have seen EII doing that kind of work but in real world it sucks all their time and results in humongous stress and even health problems not to mention that environment has to usually work agreeably.

[AndyW]

The way I see it, there are 3 possibilities:
1) I don't understand myself
2) Other people don't understand me
3) Socionics is complete BS

[Adam Strange]

The way I see it, there are 3 possibilities:
1) I don't understand myself
2) Other people don't understand me
3) Socionics is complete BS

Lol. You know, of course, that there are almost no LSE's on personality forums, so most of them are probably opting for possibility #3.

But consider this. You, somehow, magically, gravitated to an EII. Your old friend had no trouble matching you with a type, even though you didn't see it.

I'll tell you the truth. From my standpoint, being a Te-dom with extremely weak Fi and little patience or respect for introspection has led me to close off many avenues of my life. I think in the cases of LIE's and LSE's, possibility #1 is generally the case. I didn't really know who I was or what I was best at (despite constantly testing myself in the real world) until I read an Fi-dom's (Stratiyevskaya's) description of me. She pretty much had me figured out from the start, which kind of disproves possibility #2.

Reading her description of LIE's was kind of like opening doors in a house where I've lived all my life, but had never actually opened many of the doors in that house.

Imagine a world where some people "feel" as effectively as we "think". When I had that thought, I was kind of like, wow.

[AndyW]

In all seriousness though: one of the key ways I'm trying to type myself at the moment is by comparing my relationships to other people of known types (I've had quite a few do the test) and seeing where I lie. I'm totally fascinated by EII girls. I like IEE girls too, but only in short bursts. I have an SLI female friend who I get on very well with, but we're not suggestive to each other at all. I think those are big clues. I'm very close to and open with another EII-1Ne guy I've known for 7 years. Compare that to my LII-2Ne best friend I had type me earlier; he sees more of my overt personality than my vulnerable side that I show to EIIs. My ILI-0 father is very much supervisor-like with me and keeps pushing me with his leading Ni to "make a 5-year plan for my life" which irritates the crap out of me. ISTp would make me his Business/Look-Alike relation, which I'm not sure feels right, but maybe; who knows. All my best friends are in Delta Quadra with a few Alphas coming in after that.

I think when you self-type, it's very easy to pass yourself off via your own suggestive functions, as these are what you seek and who you want to be, rather than who you are and how you interact with the world, which is much more visible to people around you than it is to yourself.

By the way, if anyone's interesting in typing through VI/social interactions, check out a community social game I play at https://www.twitch.tv/dailymafia/

It's a webcam-based social game of logic and lies where an uninformed majority of people basically argue for hours at a time trying to find a hidden team of bad guys, and the reason I got into MBTI/Socionics in the first place. We have a few hundred people there across the community, and I bet some of you guys and girls would love to use this treasure trove of social interactions to develop your personality-reading skills! There's a video there of me playing on the 30th Dec (I'm Andy_AstralPhoenix if you want to take a look at it). Tons of other videos of games, too.

[Adam Strange]

Typing by ITR's is a method that I use, too. I have lots of friends in Delta (mostly SLI's, but some LSE's and one EII), but more in Gamma (lots of LIE's, lots of ESI's, lots of ILI's, very few SEE's), almost none in Beta (a few IEI's and a couple LSI's) and only a couple in Alpha (both are LII's).

After all, socionics is a theory which makes predictions about inter-type relationships, so using that to type people makes a lot of sense.

Incidentally, many of the characteristics of LIE's are appealing to me, but many are not. In particular, I find that being a Victim sucks. Being a robot isn't that great, either, nor is the strong association of LIE's with the word "asshole". I'm not sure I'd have chosen this type for myself if I'd had a choice.

[The Reality Denialist]

Well my ITR works purely on information interaction basis and puts feelings aside (which is easy for me). For example:
Dual and activator (SEI's and ESE's) are kind of mysterious in their ways at least to me in very positive way where as semi-dual (SLI) is OK to talk to. Once you observe mirage type you think first that they are OK but their thinking starts to drive you mad eventually where as with benefit things starts to get bit needy. Supervision: one party disapproves.

I don't think that there is ever that much attraction towards your identical. It is like : How he/she ended up there and where it diverges etc.

[AndyW]

Another big clue I picked up on after this is that I'm very much a 'Caregiver' type, both romantically and in friendship. Never in the history of ever would I consider myself an Infantile; I'm very protective of my friends, especially the diminutive NF girls I know.

[The Reality Denialist]

Socionics seeks utility in information exchange. I think for those who are big passionate romantic love socionics is wrong application. Of course for those who also seek practical life in terms of materialistic instead of immaterial benefits socionics is also bit wrong.

[AndyW]

Retook all the tests today:
LSE-0
Enneagram 6w7
Tritype 1-6-3
Instinctual Variants: so/sp