Hey guys! I have a question, how does introverted ethics manifest in IEIs as a 4d function? What's the difference between Fi in ExIs and IEIs?
Introverted feeling Fi in IEIs/INFps
Hey guys! I have a question, how does introverted ethics manifest in IEIs as a 4d function? What's the difference between Fi in ExIs and IEIs?
roughly speaking, its the subconscious development of knowing when you're "casting your pearls before swine"--i.e. its the underlying ethics of relations, that, despite the fact that Fe generally tries to get on with everyone, functions to find a "best fit" and recognize and move away from bad relations and towards good relations, but not in a way that is like 1d fe, which is "goes where atmosphere is pleasant" but more goes where "I can create a lasting positive atmosphere through time"
while an IEI wouldn't be so crass as to think about it directly "these people are worthless assholes" in the same way a Fi valuer might, it nevertheless creates an emergent system of values that is highly sophisticated and is more or less its own, i.e.: not sycophantic--it takes charge of that "territory" especially in SLE IEI relations (in other words, they come as ethical "masters" not slaves, despite how it may seem outwardly, 4d v 1d Fi)
the value judgements (Fi) themselves come out via (Se) implication: so and so is bad, this group or that is good, etc because of how IEI fits within the Fe space, but under it are these complex Fi value judgements about the people themselves the IEI retains sovereignty over and in such a way that is in some sense unconcsious and yet primary, Fe is just the thermostat by which they measure and develop these valuations with Se being how they tangibly express them
Last edited by Bertrand; 10-06-2017 at 07:04 PM.
This difference is huge because the other is conscious and the other isn'tOriginally Posted by Owl
You'll have to observe it.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
From what I have seen (I also like to subscribe to charge signs of model G): they set some sort ethical limits considering disapproval and other things (similar to ESI) but that is not their main drive.
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I say bad things and do good things.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
> What's the difference between Fi in ExIs and IEIs?
Fi in IEI is in background - they try to not support conflicts, they are compassionate to people (while their Fe is more seen), they try to protect feelings (Fi) of people but do this by valued functions.
EII has base Fi - it is expressed the most openly, widely and in more degree - it's their main social role, what people see in them mostly and how they see mostly themselves.
The main difference between IEI and EII in F - what function is significantly expressed, being in their ego. IEI express Fe nature clearly, while EII - Fi. 8th function is not so seen in people, - it's more felt in them, than seen.
It comes and goes. Very inconsistent. Saying bad thing and doing good things is a good example. It won't be applied in IEIs unless absolutely necessary.
An example is an IEI friend I know will use rascist terms to joke around and liven the atmosphere but is not actually rascist. In the presence of unfamiliar people or people of certain groups such language will be avoided until it is acceptable.
An EII would probably avoid such language entirely out of virtue of it being wrong. One such EII said using offensive language sows the seeds of corruption and can spread to accepting worse things. Like a "gateway drug". The IEI, however, has always been like this and is a good person. So it depends... The risk still remains I suppose. :/
Last edited by nyessss; 10-06-2017 at 08:48 PM.
/rubs fox and pookie for hitting the nail on the head.
Im not sure that is how it works man.
as their Fe, which is weaker than 1st function
> They can subtly prod and control the behaviors of others because of this in order to get what they want later down the line. EII's, imo, rarely if ever do this.
all F control emotionally. N helps to do this softer and on longer distance. F-N are similar in the final efficiency and differ by methods, and partly aims
Nah I'm pretty sure Fox was right to say it was as strong or almost as strong, as Ni. It's the difference between being strong and being valued. I heard someone say once, that on your demonstrative function you can't be beat/overpowered. You could keep pace with an EII or ESI, although you'd likely not want to because of no valuededness.
It was correctly to say about [relative] equality to the 2nd function. Also skills of nonvalued functions are worse developed, so people act with lesser efficiency.
The practical difference in the strenght between 1 and 2 is not big, as social normas are below even 2nd function, while people mostly try be close to normas, except situations of competition like in a profession, or hobbies, etc.
> I heard someone say once, that on your demonstrative function you can't be beat/overpowered.
The strongest and having best developed skills is 1st function, generally. You can be beaten even on 1st function in particular tasks and skills, which need a training and a knowledge. And there can be people smarter than you which have stronger some function, not only some skills related to it. Different non-types factors also affect the results.
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