In theory there should be a quiet understanding between these two relations- an unconscious awareness that you would think would feel ALMOST like duality.
What is up with contrary relations?
In theory there should be a quiet understanding between these two relations- an unconscious awareness that you would think would feel ALMOST like duality.
Last edited by Iwantpeace; 09-07-2020 at 09:58 PM.
Lol, I dunno if this is universal or not but when I feel pressure on my ignoring fx it's kinda like... I mean.. I guess if you really want... But I look like a goddamn fool... This is weird... Are you happy now?
OK so in contrary relations, the two partners have the inverse functions but in the same order (i.e. for LIE TeNi vs LII TiNe)
This means that they're going to be focused on the same kind of problems, but will come to opposite conclusions. Therefore you will readily meet contrary partners, as they tend to have similar interests to you. Nonetheless time after time, you will find that it is very difficult to find common ground with them, or even understand what they are trying to say. Their reasoning seems superfluous, ignorant and irrelevant. The more time you spend around them, the more annoyed you get.
Personally I think this is the type of relation where you are most likely to come into conflict over your worldview. With conflictors, conflict tends to be over lifestyle choices, more personal things. The conflicting partner has your leading function as their PoLR, while the contrary partner has your activating function as their PoLR.
Last edited by Spermatozoa; 10-05-2017 at 03:57 AM.
I place these relationships in the top half and not at the bottom; they can have common objectives even though they can have very different approaches. They really seem to have common opinions but argue over semantics. The externalized thinker can seem aggressive and or draining while the internalized one tends to be defensive and or non-communicative. However, I've seen many of these relationships work very well with the occasional flare-up. I found that paraphrasing by both partners seems to mitigate a lot of potential distrust.
a.k.a. I/O
IDK. EIE are really cool, but like, too cool for me. I am jealous of the attention they get. I'm a weird EII though. I like being the center of attention. Generally EIE are nice enough as casual friends, but I don't think I'm shiny enough to hold their attention for a deeper friendship/relationship.
The approach I take is not something ILI understands.
They see me as ineffective while I'm improving towards a goal doing things using new approaches.
I don't get how ILI ways are able to do produce something new.
I'd say that they might appear bit dual like who won't use their ego in satisfactory ways (ie. superego generates false potential).
Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 10-12-2017 at 05:05 AM.
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This is about exactly how I feel about EIEs as well.Originally Posted by Economist
So I guess my contrary relationship would be with an IEE. Well to be honest... I don't find them irritating or undesireable. I actually find IEEs to be very interesting and I like to have them around as my friends, because they're so much lighter and easy-going than me. I envy how freely they seem they can express themselves and how at ease a lot of them are at social situations. They also have this bit of an emotional drama going on, but that is always hidden behind a joke or a light-harted smile. I can relate to them a lot and yet I know I'm different in a way that I'm less easy-going and more focused. I'm also far more serious and emotional than IEEs, but I love the fact that I can talk about how I feel with them and they are always open to listen to me and usually understand me quite well. I just sometimes need this easy-going approach in my life to remind me that not everything is a huge deal.
What I don't like about them is that they seem to fall for every stupid idea without really thinking it through. I mean, I love their enthusiasm, but I'm often the one to break the illusions when I see they're throwing themselves in something really silly and short sighted. Sometimes I also don't like their lack of focus, mostly in a working enviroment. When I try to work on something that really matters to me, I just want to work and they keep on distracting me, but that's the issue with all the Ep types anyway. The bad thing about me is that, I'm not too hard to distract so even when I want to work, when I have an IEE around me wanting to have fun we usually end up playing around like little kids instead of actually working so we're definitely not a good working combo. Same with ILEs hah, I had an ILE coworker once and we spent most of our shifts fighting around like 5 years old haha.
We agree. Everything we say halts the others momentum. Conversations end up entirely superficial, and interesting.
Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.
Understanding you'll meet with same values, while duality gives you support for weak functions.
In contrary you'll get permanent "who is more right here" and the lack of friendly support.
The mix of duality and contrary are semi-duality and mirrage. With semi-duality you may deal good, but prepare to get what you want not always like you want. In mirrage you'll notice a significant barrier, so they are not suitable for very close relations.
Huh. News to me. Hey, well, that might be my dual search in a nutshell, I don't know. Hey, I did meet actual duals, who thought I was right, possibly and thus everything is all good. Well, that kind of supports my theory that I cannot type everyone accurately. It is a quiet theory that I hoped never saw the light of day. I'm pretty sure it should not apply unless this realm is more complicated than what I can see.
Well, shoot. Uh, so uh yeah, if you are ENTp, you might be mistyped as INFp, and I might say you are ESFp? Not a fun time. I mean hey, wait to prey on my insecurities world.
OH WAIT MY GOD. I KNOW THIS ONE. Mildly popular kid in school. Actually, I don't know, he just seemed the type. Supposedly, he was bullied, but he really did not care, or at least seem to, which lead to street cred. Anyways, he's why I am a pacifist, and did not join the army. Although he could be ENTj, but I'd say if that is true, we'd be better friends. I don't know. He did think pretty highly of me. Alternatively, it is my computer partner, who I typed as a an actual ENTj, and it might be wrong. Hey, makes sense, honestly. Like we tanked several presentations, and did not do very well, but we still are friends and do it. Strange. Well, that above theory is not in play as of yet. The one I don't like.
Last edited by Alomoes; 12-03-2017 at 01:12 AM.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
I agree with this but at the same time I notice a lot of IEIs and IEEs strangely getting along; is it just masks/politeness, because nothing is really at stake? possible mistypes?
Mistypes are common. In case of correct types they may to be pals with similar interests and abbilities, but doubtfully to be close friends. IR is about _deep_ friendship possibility. You may collaborate or spend time with people of any types, but the closer relations you'll try the more issues bad IR will do.
Here's my general take on Extinguishment/Contrary relations.
Personally, I am set on keeping IEEs at a strictly platonic level, because anything more than that is destined to end in great disillusionment and trouble.
As casual friends, IEEs can be invaluable. They are typically interesting, positive and forthcoming (7 fix usually), full of ideas and curiosity, and often have many other friends they can introduce you to... With the temperament match, it can be nice to just hangout. If they are Ne subtype, they can be a bit overwhelming, and if they are Te HA-ing too much, I am gonna step back a bit.
Other than that, acceptable and to some extent enjoyable for friendship – but nothing more than that.
I've had several crushes on IEE guys before, and obviously none of them ever worked out, so...
what does "Te HA-ing" look like?
As I understand none of your relations were good, according to what is now. You don't need to hurry. Try with base Ti types, to check how this will go.
Weak and valued. Don't mess with model A concrete functions, - too muddy descriptions, too hypothetical.
yeah I agree, which is why I've said this exact thing in the past; but still I wonder "what its like" for IEI to be on the wrong side of Te HA of IEE, so not as a technical description but more as a first person account. my initial question was poorly formulated since I just assumed I'd be getting a subjective take on things, but it was phrased as though there was a singular way to describe any HA, besides "weak and valued"
Problems are expected among valued functions. IEI will feel bad from how IEE deal with own superego functions.
For example, IEI prefer clear structure and rules, while IEE will prefer to ignore it at maximum, will make mistakes there.
I remember like one LSI was annoyed by my regular delays to come in time.
hm yeah, its weird to me how beta quadra is into clear structure and rules, and yet at the same time has this rebellious teenage quality to them. reminds me of the contemporary alt right where the hip rebellious thing is to be a fascist, but I can't believe teenagers would do very well under such a system. they're so preoccupied with being cool you'd think a little uncertainty wouldn't bother such cool people, since it would give them space for creative expression. this is probably why beta fights amongst itself, once it becomes clear "the rules" were totally self serving and for the benefit-of-all in name only, so a new group can make a claim and take shots at the king, ad infinitum. come to think of it, its precisely that dynamic I'd associate with teenagers, a senseless battle for control where no one knows what they're doing but they're all obsessed with conforming their actions to a scheme that makes it look like they do
You think there's type related to that?Problems are expected among valued functions. IEI will feel bad from how IEE deal with own superego functions.
For example, IEI prefer clear structure and rules, while IEE will prefer to ignore it at maximum, will make mistakes there.
I remember like one LSI was annoyed by my regular delays to come in time.
yeah, especially if the "late" worker was more productive than those that were regularly on time and yet was disliked only for their lack of adherence to the purely formal schedule
Partly, at least. He was redundantly annoyed in the degree I redundantly did not care to come in time, as it's not my valued region. Generally, I come as the last and where it's not critical I may delay a little on regular basis. Meanwhile I'm not disorganised, just delay to come.
I have a very good friend who is EII. I notice that we socialise best 1on1, as in groups we either a/ split and do our own things (in more work/project-oriented settings) or b/ I tend to butterfly off into the distance to the shiny loud stuff.
When we hang out 1on1, it's usually very peaceful and low-key, and it's genuinely pleasant to just *be* around each other. I have invited them to lay about and do absolutely nothing before, and it was entirely worth it.
I notice myself toning down and there isn't much loud/rough play-fighting. When we joke around it's less noisy and gentler than my (perceived) baseline. On the other hand, it's entirely possible to boss them around, but not preferable because, ya know, it's not nice. It does comes in handy though, for unimportant stuff like: "Stop doing the pile of dishes already, I did not come over to your house to watch you scrub stuff!"I do sometimes have to privately remind myself to act my best and prioritise them when I'm in a mood of valuing sparkles and Jokes Everywhere, instead of more quiet fun, but it is well worth it in the long run. This is not to say that they are not fun, they are! It's just a different kind of fun with less shouting.
Very supportive and reliable friendship for everyone involved.(I have been told this explicitly on their part, for the record.)
Reason is a whore.
When I was in a room with my dual it was very odd and I felt like I couldn't talk to them. I think duality might take a long time to happen or notice. I think contray relations are pretty easy to start and talk to each other.
I kinda think ILEs are my contrary, I think there is a mutual understanding there. Their issues are easy to understand, they also are generally smart. Thinking they are annoyingly dense will never be a problem. They tend to always be nerdier than me which is good because I like nerds anyway. Specially males it's like they would always talk like a robot. I kinda feel more human than them but just bitchier. But they also understand why I act bitchy so it's not a problem. Some ILEs just remove themselves from people who are not as straightforward as them but then I'm straightforward so I don't get hit by this. When I talk "weirdly", they also don't say anything or they just say "I don't believe in that" then move on without judgement.
For some reason when they get closer and closer though they would say things to help me and I do not like how they say it. When they do that, I would spiral a little bit and immediately think that I hope the person I'm talking to right now is actually a little less capable but more fun and feely. They're just saying it as a matter of fact to help me, but idk why it grates me so much. In my head I immediately think "I don't need ur help shut up" I would actually prefer to find someone useless but at least can crack a joke or something and suffer/die over someone who likes to guide me. Being capable is really not always a positive. Is their advice useful? Yes, but it's like two warriors fighting over one spot. But if ever I am with an ILE I am secure that communication would be easy and there are not much hassle if it's just getting through things on the daily.
Also their crowd is something I don't want to associate with for a long time and they are too groupy over intimate idk how to explain it but something is missing. I couldn't connect to their feelings. I want them to look sad, happy, tormented or anything at all really but nope there's not much of that.
Some sympathy of good IR is noticed quickly and is stable. You may feel a discomfort because of other reasons, including other IR than think.
Also two close to duals types are among bad IR, of one dichotomy away. Such people are harder to be perceived as comfortable, compared to good IR.
It's not really discomfort, just like "I want to know this person but I don't know how to get close to them." For instance, I've found discomfort to be most apparent in conflict/supervision relations. In supervision though there's more of a mutual respect but within conflict and can feel that both reject one another, so it's an overall dislike. I cannot really discern but having been able to get close to contrary quickly it can be a fun, but there is no deep connection or magnetic pull.
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