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Thread: Hey There Good Lookin

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    Default Hey There Good Lookin

    Edited for gayness.

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    Very good advice, very good advice!

    I have thought of the same thing before, I just did not think to put it into words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbean.
    Very good advice, very good advice!

    I have thought of the same thing before, I just did not think to put it into words.
    Me too.

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    I disagree but don't want to start an argument.

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    ......

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    Well I do kinda agree if you aren't in a dual relationship, although it has been amazing to me when I actually have been in a dual relationship how truely mutual and how meaningless the 'power of relationship' in the relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin
    Well I do kinda agree if you aren't in a dual relationship, although it has been amazing to me when I actually have been in a dual relationship how truely mutual and how meaningless the 'power of relationship' in the relationship.
    Does that mean that you are no longer in a dual relationship?

    If you are not, I'm curious why the relationship ended as it was "amazing".

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    Please don't troll me. It was great, and I broke up with her, and I regret it.

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    Agreed to a point. It's fine to try to do everything on your own but you will just waste time and energy that can be devoted to other things. It's good to have a dual

    "Two are better than one... For if they fall, one will lift up his companion. But woe to him who is alone when he falls, for he has no one to keep him up. Again, if two lie down together, they will keep warm; but how can one be warm alone?"

    So true... (emphasis mine)

    But yeah codependency = bad.

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    I agree with most of what Pedro says.

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    Default Re: Dangerous Dual Belief

    Quote Originally Posted by Transigent
    ....
    Thanks for bringing up this! An interesting and important matter.

    One must both agree and disagree. How can anyone say for sure, that someone else wouldnīt show up as the completing dual? Of course not.

    The benefit of believing there is a dual somewhere may result in finding such one. And/or not.
    If this believing is chosen as a strategy and goal in life there is a (dangerous?) risk getting disappointed and bitter, the more as time goes by. A tension might be part of life as long as this "savior" hasnīt showed up yet. If ever.
    On the other hand, to focus at the present instead and more or less reject that hope to find a dual, may lead to losing a dual.

    So, whatīs new about this? Nothing. Itīs a personal standpoint.

    The same applies to the twin concept (= the identical, complete understanding between eachother) which may attract
    other (very self confident (INTj?!)) people.
    Wonder why and if I have to be an INTJ or how to do the best of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by admin
    Please don't troll me. It was great, and I broke up with her, and I regret it.
    I'm sad to here it.

    You don't have to tell me about your personal stuff, but I just want to know the sort of reasons why a dual relationship would end between a man and woman.

    You could 'private message' me if you want.

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    Interesting topic, and I can say that there is a good deal of sense to NOT thinkning that another person completes you, as it can lead to depression and other unpleasant psychological states. As I have had more than a few dual relationships, I can say that it is not a matter of completion that we seek out someone with whom to spend our lives, but rather a matter of growth. When a person has found their "dual" they often feel emboldened, and also, that there is no longer a side of them that is not somehow represented. It is true that very few people who hold a dual personality type to you are going to make you truly happy, and because, for some types, it takes a long time to find the right one (particularly in the case of INTjs I would imagine), it would be foolish to think that you were not an "entity unto yourself" until that point. But here is an interesting way of looking at it....

    Let's represent an individual by a shape...say, the triangle . Now, that triabgle is complete unto itself, it is not better or worse than any other shape, and in fact functions better in certain situations than others, like the square, or the rectangle. But, two equal triangles together are capable of forming a square , which in itself is useful in situations in which the triangle is not. So, assuming that there is no unbreakable merging that occurs (which we know is obviously not the case with human relationships), the two individual shapes are able to act both independently when neccesary to achieve certain things, but are also able to combine forces when necessary to achieve others. So, I think it is fair to say that you are in fact better off with a person who is your dual in life than without, as it simply gives you more options to deal with things for which you may not be well suited to deal with on your own.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFVB
    Interesting topic, and I can say that there is a good deal of sense to NOT thinkning that another person completes you, as it can lead to depression and other unpleasant psychological states.
    I think you've got that backwards. Having dealt with a lot of depression myself it is quite obvious to me that you BECOME DEPRESSED then believe those depressing things. Depression seems to be caused by stimuli that puts you in a depressed state then leads to depressing thoughts. It doesn't seem to be the depressing thoughts themselves that make you depressed or keep you depressed but rather the depressing situation you are in.

    Quote Originally Posted by SFVB
    It is true that very few people who hold a dual personality type to you are going to make you truly happy
    Yes!!!!!!! There is more to social interaction than socionics.

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    I think you've got that backwards. Having dealt with a lot of depression myself it is quite obvious to me that you BECOME DEPRESSED then believe those depressing things. Depression seems to be caused by stimuli that puts you in a depressed state then leads to depressing thoughts. It doesn't seem to be the depressing thoughts themselves that make you depressed or keep you depressed but rather the depressing situation you are in.
    Hmmm....perhaps its simply a vicious cycle for which we must let the neuro-biologists uncover whether it is the chicken or the egg that comes first, for which the answer may be, as it is with many thing...."It depends."

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    Edited for gayness.

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    Depression at its root is simply the lack of taking responsibility for your situation. It may sound cruel, but until you can face up to the fact that you have constructed your own internal and external worlds you will keep finding excuses whether it be neurobiology, your childhood, or whatever. Do you think villagers in war-torn parts of poverty-stricken Africa are depressed like us ennui-ridden westerners? No they are not. They must deal with the contingencies of the world around them. Depression is a modern luxury, an indulgence foreign to most of the world. Turn your gaze away from the self and out towards the world. Let go of the ego-construct that you hold so dear, and that is necessitating you do battle with yourself. Letting go seems tough, apparently tougher than depression for many. But it is not. It is like jumping off a high-dive. Scary as hell, but as easy as falling. A world you maybe didn't even know exists will open up for you.

    Oh and letting go will allow you to see people as they are and not through a veil of judgements. You'll become a much better socionist. :wink:

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    There are so many misconceptions about depression that I won't even try to respond to people's sentiments about it.

    I will say this however:

    1. It is affected by the environment.

    There is a reason why people in prison are afraid of solitary confinement. Total sensory deprevation seems to make people depressed. The human being is like a river, they need constant flow or they will stagnate and die.

    2. It is actively affected by the will.

    You can make yourself more depressed and (depending on the severity) you can pull yourself out of it (to a depgree at least).

    3. If you think I am full of biased judgements you should have seen me before. Also you are probably unaware of your own biases or you'd be more kind to mine. My suggestion is get yourself severely depressed to the point where death seems more appealling to you than life and then see if your opinions hold.

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    Default Ego trend views.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow
    Depression at its root is simply the lack of taking responsibility for your situation. It may sound cruel, but until you can face up to the fact that you have constructed your own internal and external worlds you will keep finding excuses whether it be neurobiology, your childhood, or whatever.
    Then what about a children who are depressed? Your simple reasoning fall short.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow
    Do you think villagers in war-torn parts of poverty-stricken Africa are depressed like us ennui-ridden westerners? No they are not. They must deal with the contingencies of the world around them.
    Nor are they happy. Are they? But as you say, they must deal with what is possible. And many depressed people do that too. They do those must-do-things but in a depression they lack the energy to go on forward from there. Until something changes inside or/and outside their depressed mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scarecrow
    Depression is a modern luxury, an indulgence foreign to most of the world. Turn your gaze away from the self and out towards the world. Let go of the ego-construct that you hold so dear, and that is necessitating you do battle with yourself. Letting go seems tough, apparently tougher than depression for many. But it is not. It is like jumping off a high-dive. Scary as hell, but as easy as falling. A world you maybe didn't even know exists will open up for you.

    Oh and letting go will allow you to see people as they are and not through a veil of judgements. You'll become a much better socionist. :wink:
    Again, when applying this to children, itīs easy to think of the risk of developing bad or criminal behaviour. It may seem logical to rely on your own efforts but not all depressions emerge from self pity, as may be in adult depression.
    Children are fully dependent upon parental caring and without it, they will have to compensate for that on their own as they grow. Not always in a beneficial manner.
    I believe that the base of inner strength is formed in childhood.
    And, I think this "letting go" of an "ego" may become more endowed to create another hardened ego.
    Wonder why and if I have to be an INTJ or how to do the best of it.

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    It is actually very clear that there is a biological basis for depression - just look at the neurotransmitter data!

    There was also a cross cultural study on depression done. The findings boiled down to the idea that people who are destitute and scrapping at the survival level express no happiness, nor do they expect happiness. Ergo, the worse your circumstances are, the less happy you are, the more depressed you are. I have always thought that this is a big part of the reason why it is so difficult to raise Third World countries out of their conditions. The energy of the people, amongst other things, is very low, and therefore difficult to harness.

    There are depressed people in wealthy societies. The high standard of living has filtered out most poverty factors as precipitators of depression leaving the biological markers instead.

    Or something like that. FWIW.

    :wink:
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    I admit I exagerated for effect. I'm sure there are many cases of depression that cannot be self-healed, even by a willful individual. I don't know what to say to that. Probably the best you can do is detach yourself from your depression, not identify with it, observe it in your own mind clinically, don't dwell on it, and have faith in the miracle of biological self-adaptation/self-healing. Just don't take Prozac.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    It is actually very clear that there is a biological basis for depression - just look at the neurotransmitter data!
    Yes there is a correlation but is it cause or effect? Which is the same as asking: are you your biology or victim of it? The body is extremely receptive to willed emotions, and the brain is the most plastic of all. Incesant self-directed negative emotions are probably worse for you than cigarettes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze
    There was also a cross cultural study on depression done. The findings boiled down to the idea that people who are destitute and scrapping at the survival level express no happiness, nor do they expect happiness. Ergo, the worse your circumstances are, the less happy you are, the more depressed you are. I have always thought that this is a big part of the reason why it is so difficult to raise Third World countries out of their conditions. The energy of the people, amongst other things, is very low, and therefore difficult to harness.
    Interesting. I suppose it is possible but dependent on many factors. Most of the 3rd world is in a limbo state between their native culture and the imposed culture. This leads to a wide range in adaptations. So I think it would depend on which cultures were studied.

    Hey 3rd worldies! Let's all build bridges for prosperity! What? No? You would rather participate in your time honored traditional way of life? Oh. Slackers.

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