Did I unsuccessfully date my dual or conflictor??!

[bart27]

Hi all! I'll try to keep this post as short and concise as possible, while still providing enough info to get some well-informed opinions. Thank you in advance!

A little background info on me - I'm a 27 year old female. I'm pretty confident I'm an IEI-Ni. I've waffled back and forth between that and EII. I'm much more well-rounded than I used to be, hence the confusion, but when I look back on my younger years, I'm pretty sure I'm not an EII. Although I now have firm principles that I refuse to compromise on and a deeper sense of emotional awareness as I age, that wasn't always the case. After getting out of an emotionally abusive relationship that lasted several years, I became firm in my convictions about what I wouldn't tolerate in a relationship. I also became more in touch with how **I** feel about things. Sometimes it would take me days or weeks before figuring out that something someone did to me hurt me. I was always keenly aware of other peoples' emotions and how they felt about me, but was very out of touch with my own. I've grown and developed so much that I considered I may be an EII, but I think I'm an IEI that has recognized and worked on her weaknesses. I'm open to any suggestions otherwise, though!

A few other details that lead me to this conclusion…I've always struggled very much with the practical and mundane. I tend to be very unaware of my physical surroundings. It's not that I intentionally try to be messy…I just don't pay attention to these things. I tend to live primarily inside my head. Cooking seemed like a magical and incomprehensible art until I learned in recent years how to take those practical steps. Although I'm a romantic at heart, I have this unquenchable thirst to understand everything. Even trying to make sense of my life through socionics has become a bit of an obsession that I think I need to simmer down from!

After being single for about 5 years after leaving that emotionally abusive relationship, I finally got into a committed relationship with someone new and I felt that I needed to end it after just a few months to preserve my sanity and integrity and self-respect. I'm just trying to get a grip on what happened and what I can learn from it.

I can't figure out whether he was an unhealthy SLE dual or an LSE conflictor. I know that sounds ridiculous, but read on…he's 29. At first he came across like a great catch. A nice combination of fun, hard working, caring and devoted to the idea of a committed relationship. He was very persistent in his pursuit of me and wanted to lock me down right away. It didn't take long for the red flags to come out. He's an absolute adrenaline junkie. Has gotten in trouble with the law in the past but is a (mostly) conformed citizen now. He loves motorcycles and still runs from the cops rather than accepting a ticket. He presents himself as life of the party, very talkative, shmoozy, flirtatious, spontaneous, etc., but with a strong code of ethics (albeit his own personal and questionable at times code).

At the same dang time, he's anal retentive to the point of obsession. He's destroyed relationships over people not conforming to the way he demands things to be done. Would any SLE color code his closet?! He nitpicked everything I did and said. I'm too this, too that, used the wrong words, the wrong tone, the wrong timing, didn't like my purse, my perfume was too strong, I smacked my lips while eating (I don't), etc. One time, we were supposed to go out to a fancy dinner with friends and I came to his place to meet him beforehand. I was dressed to the nines and he refused to even acknowledge me until he was done working on his car. He accused me of wanting to distract him and take up his time. I didn't want to do either of those things. I just couldn't understand why he was so cold in his dismissal of me when I put so much effort into getting dressed up for him. To top it all off, he had a terrible temper that would come out if I expressed an opinion that differed from his. He wasn't interested in communicating with me and coming to mutual understanding. He simply wanted to beat me into submission.

Clearly, regardless of type, this guy is unhealthy and has a lot of self-work to do. I'm still curious though - is he an unhealthy SLE or LSE?

[wacey]

Scary this all sounds like stuff I've been through....

[Adam Strange]

I can't really tell what type he is. You should know, though, that if he is as screwed up as you describe, it might be very difficult to identify a type for him. Mental problems will do that.

One thing is certain; you are getting healthier and you are well rid of him.

Incidentally, you do sound IEI to me. I know a few IEI's, and they seem to have to get past this "caring for someone else while ignoring their own needs" thing. Being unable to see yourself, I think, is common, until you can get your feelings outside of yourself where you can see them clearly. This is why so many IEI's are writers.

[velveteen]

It sounds like you were dealing with a narcissist. He could very well be an unhealthy SLE. Either way, he needed to go.

I'm unsure whether I'm IEI or EII, too. I relate to a lot of what you have written. I have only recently become a well rounded person with boundaries lol. I guess it comes with age.

[silke]

A little background info on me - I'm a 27 year old female. I'm pretty confident I'm an IEI-Ni. I've waffled back and forth between that and EII. I'm much more well-rounded than I used to be, hence the confusion, but when I look back on my younger years, I'm pretty sure I'm not an EII. Although I now have firm principles that I refuse to compromise on and a deeper sense of emotional awareness as I age, that wasn't always the case. After getting out of an emotionally abusive relationship that lasted several years, I became firm in my convictions about what I wouldn't tolerate in a relationship. I also became more in touch with how **I** feel about things. Sometimes it would take me days or weeks before figuring out that something someone did to me hurt me. I was always keenly aware of other peoples' emotions and how they felt about me, but was very out of touch with my own. I've grown and developed so much that I considered I may be an EII, but I think I'm an IEI that has recognized and worked on her weaknesses. I'm open to any suggestions otherwise, though!

Sounds IEI enough. One thing I've noticed with demonstrative function is that it takes a while to "fill", so initially you might feel like it's not there or lacking in a way, but once it does get that prerequisite life experience the "filling" takes place and it kicks in rather strongly. In this way it's different form leading function that is there in some kind of nascent form even before teenage years.

I can't figure out whether he was an unhealthy SLE dual or an LSE conflictor. I know that sounds ridiculous, but read on…he's 29. At first he came across like a great catch. A nice combination of fun, hard working, caring and devoted to the idea of a committed relationship. He was very persistent in his pursuit of me and wanted to lock me down right away. It didn't take long for the red flags to come out. He's an absolute adrenaline junkie. Has gotten in trouble with the law in the past but is a (mostly) conformed citizen now. He loves motorcycles and still runs from the cops rather than accepting a ticket. He presents himself as life of the party, very talkative, shmoozy, flirtatious, spontaneous, etc., but with a strong code of ethics (albeit his own personal and questionable at times code).

At the same dang time, he's anal retentive to the point of obsession. He's destroyed relationships over people not conforming to the way he demands things to be done. Would any SLE color code his closet?! He nitpicked everything I did and said. I'm too this, too that, used the wrong words, the wrong tone, the wrong timing, didn't like my purse, my perfume was too strong, I smacked my lips while eating (I don't), etc. One time, we were supposed to go out to a fancy dinner with friends and I came to his place to meet him beforehand. I was dressed to the nines and he refused to even acknowledge me until he was done working on his car. He accused me of wanting to distract him and take up his time. I didn't want to do either of those things. I just couldn't understand why he was so cold in his dismissal of me when I put so much effort into getting dressed up for him. To top it all off, he had a terrible temper that would come out if I expressed an opinion that differed from his. He wasn't interested in communicating with me and coming to mutual understanding. He simply wanted to beat me into submission.

Clearly, regardless of type, this guy is unhealthy and has a lot of self-work to do. I'm still curious though - is he an unhealthy SLE or LSE?

LSI-Se. LSI-Se men appear similar to SLE men from a distance and may have similar kind of lifestyles, be adrenaline junkies (Che Guevara, young Stalin who went on a number of dangerous missions and survived everything), have an interest in bikes and tinkering with cars and other electronics, but eventually their rationality and "obstinate" trait begins to show and that's what differentiates from them from SLEs who are irrational and "yielding" same as IEIs. In the EIE-LSI duality having unity of opinions is of greater importance than in IEI-SLE duality, so when your opinion differed from his that was an occasion to have an argument. "Obstinate" types defend their interests and opinions, which to "yielding" types sometimes comes off as a strange and unduly sharp reaction. LSIs are also more dominant and hierarchically oriented than SLEs so it's no wonder you felt that he was trying to beat you into submission - that's the effect that their leading Ti has on IEI's Ti hidden agenda: while it's ideal for EIEs, it's excessive for an IEI. They are also known to nitpick on appearance if they want to annoy you. It's one way they express their frustration. There was an LSI e1 member on this forum who used to do this.

[Sol]

post video interviews of you and of that man. without this it's doubtful to decide about your IR

[GuavaDrunk]

You've mostly just given a long list of 'charismatic (abusive) asshole' traits, just sayin'. [/unhelpful]

[bart27]

Thank you all
for your input. Much appreciated.

[wacey]

You've mostly just given a long list of 'charismatic (abusive) asshole' traits, just sayin'. [/unhelpful]

yeah lots of that here. hate those charismatic assholes they are the worst..you are so drawn to them, maybe you think you can change them...

[GuavaDrunk]

yeah lots of that here. hate those charismatic assholes they are the worst..you are so drawn to them, maybe you think you can change them...

Nononono, you throw the gasoline on their spark and back away slowly, only way to stem the invasion. ;D

[bart27]

Ugh you're all prob right about the narcissism suspicion. Another thought to bounce off of this...I definitely relate to the victim romance style but maybe I need to consciously change my ways. I tend to immediately discount any men who hint at their interest or beat around the bush, even feeling repulsed by such an approach. I go for the ones who pursue me without reservation, who are also statistically more likely to be narcissists (halp). Do any IEI's relate to this and how do you change your hardwiring, so to speak?

**edit** that's not to say there aren't any healthy versions of the aggressor/victim dynamic out there, but it certainly feels like it's difficult to find and "victims" seem to have a higher likelihood of getting involved with narcissists because of what they're subconsciously demanding from a partner. Thoughts?

[velveteen]

Ugh you're all prob right about the narcissism suspicion. Another thought to bounce off of this...I definitely relate to the victim romance style but maybe I need to consciously change my ways. I tend to immediately discount any men who hint at their interest or beat around the bush, even feeling repulsed by such an approach. I go for the ones who pursue me without reservation, who are also statistically more likely to be narcissists (halp). Do any IEI's relate to this and how do you change your hardwiring, so to speak?

**edit** that's not to say there aren't any healthy versions of the aggressor/victim dynamic out there, but it certainly feels like it's difficult to find and "victims" seem to have a higher likelihood of getting involved with narcissists because of what they're subconsciously demanding from a partner. Thoughts?

So I relate to what you're saying, but I don't think my romance style is a victim's romance style. I just didn't have boundaries.

Basically I'm turned off by any dude who's not upright about his intentions. I don't think that'll ever change. I need honesty, even if it hurts. I like to know where I stand. Weaklings who don't have the guts to tell me what they want don't impress me. I read into situations, see through people, their intentions and motivations easily. Despite this, I have put myself through emotional turmoil and gotten myself into horrible situations just for the hell of it. I let myself be drawn in just to see where it goes. I was not in a good place a few years ago, but I have changed significantly since. I stand up for myself and my views. I don't feel the urge to explain myself. I don't let people feed on my insecurities.

I don't think you can change your hardwiring per se, but you can look for red flags and draw boundaries. I know it's difficult. I'm still recovering from my previous experience with someone who I assume is a narcissist with ASPD tendencies. It was very difficult to figure out whether he was genuine or not half the time and some days I still think about him and pity him.

I say go with your gut instinct. If something seems off, then it probably is. Draw the line there, be wary who you share yourself with.

[Kill4Me]

He's an absolute adrenaline junkie. Has gotten in trouble with the law in the past but is a (mostly) conformed citizen now. He loves motorcycles and still runs from the cops rather than accepting a ticket. He presents himself as life of the party, very talkative, shmoozy, flirtatious, spontaneous, etc., but with a strong code of ethics (albeit his own personal and questionable at times code).

At the same dang time, he's anal retentive to the point of obsession. He's destroyed relationships over people not conforming to the way he demands things to be done. Would any SLE color code his closet?! He nitpicked everything I did and said. I'm too this, too that, used the wrong words, the wrong tone, the wrong timing, didn't like my purse, my perfume was too strong, I smacked my lips while eating (I don't), etc. One time, we were supposed to go out to a fancy dinner with friends and I came to his place to meet him beforehand. I was dressed to the nines and he refused to even acknowledge me until he was done working on his car. He accused me of wanting to distract him and take up his time. I didn't want to do either of those things. I just couldn't understand why he was so cold in his dismissal of me when I put so much effort into getting dressed up for him. To top it all off, he had a terrible temper that would come out if I expressed an opinion that differed from his. He wasn't interested in communicating with me and coming to mutual understanding. He simply wanted to beat me into submission.

Clearly, regardless of type, this guy is unhealthy and has a lot of self-work to do. I'm still curious though - is he an unhealthy SLE or LSE?

SLI-Si sounds right for his type. Words also had that adrenaline junky aspect to him. It's a good point of distinction from ESI-Se (the other type that does this sorta nitpicking)

[Adam Strange]

Ugh you're all prob right about the narcissism suspicion. Another thought to bounce off of this...I definitely relate to the victim romance style but maybe I need to consciously change my ways. I tend to immediately discount any men who hint at their interest or beat around the bush, even feeling repulsed by such an approach. I go for the ones who pursue me without reservation, who are also statistically more likely to be narcissists (halp). Do any IEI's relate to this and how do you change your hardwiring, so to speak?

**edit** that's not to say there aren't any healthy versions of the aggressor/victim dynamic out there, but it certainly feels like it's difficult to find and "victims" seem to have a higher likelihood of getting involved with narcissists because of what they're subconsciously demanding from a partner. Thoughts?

So, I dated - have dated, am dating (I guess - it is non-sexual and just for fun because I like her) an IEI, and I told her that I wanted to take her to dinner from time to time and go to events with her, but I wasn't looking for romance because (I explained) two Victims are like two wet matches and she's really better suited for an SLE, which I described, and she said she had some BF's like that but they really didn't work out. So I said, "That's the type which will ask you out and will close the distance, because you aren't going to make the first move."
And she thought about that for a minute, and said, Maybe when she was younger that was true, but now it's certainly not true, and do I want to go to an Air Show next week? And how long am I going to wait for a perfect ESI to come along when she's standing in front of me right now?

So, to answer your question, IEI's are wallflowers until they burn out a few neurons with age and experience and turn into SLE's.

[bart27]

Thanks again for all of the great feedback. I feel for all of your experiences and it's nice to hear that others relate to me. I hope to find someone who can complement me as a healthy "aggressor" but I may need to turn my expectations for aggressive pursuit down a tad. Perhaps only a narcissist would be able to be to live up to that lol. And maybe I do need to unleash a little of my inner SLE

Also, after doing a little reading, I suspect Silke may have been correct in suggesting LSI-Se. I still think he's an unhealthy form but that was so helpful and the whole dynamic is making more sense. He came off very SLE from a distance and I was jarred by his rigidity, criticism, sharpness, etc.

[falsehope]

This sounds very much like SLE

[Exodus]

Yeah, definitely sounds SLE or LSI. Not LSE.

[idontgiveaf]

Break him off

[imarite]

Just outta curiosity and you are gone, did you ever try listening to him, instead of wanting him to listen to you?

[Adam Strange]

It’s mutual respect or GTFO.

[Chae]

Unsuccessful = understatement
Hope life roasted him good in the meantime.

[Number 9 large]

Theres always 2 sides to a story.

[Rebelondeck]

..........is he an unhealthy SLE or LSE?

What you seem to be describing is baggage so type is irrelevant; psychological issues often cloud accurate type determination. If this individual were under a lot of personal stress, a back-up mode of information processing may even be in play. I find that a well-adjusted dual hardly ever feels like a "great catch" until the long-term partner is replaced by a non-dual. There's a song with the line: "you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone" - unless the dual is smokin' hot and then your own personal libido will likely be obscuring the assessment.
a.k.a. I/O

[blackburry]

Theres always 2 sides to a story.

True, but how someone makes you feel is rather important for both persons involved. If you mostly dislike someone as is (i.e. you spend a lot of effort attempting to change them), then why waste your time? Also, the OP stated that her ex years ago was emotionally abusive and it reads as though her most recent relationship could have likely been a similar situation.


Anyways...off-topic, but I find it strange that I have a visceral dislike reaction to the few posts of yours that I have read.

[Number 9 large]

True, but how someone makes you feel is rather important for both persons involved. If you mostly dislike someone as is (i.e. you spend a lot of effort attempting to change them), then why waste your time? Also, the OP stated that her ex years ago was emotionally abusive and it reads as though her most recent relationship could have likely been a similar situation.


Anyways...off-topic, but I find it strange that I have a visceral dislike reaction to the few posts of yours that I have read.

idc what u think m8

[blackburry]

Nor should you.~~~ STRANGA ONLINEEEEE.

[Hermit Soul]

I'm still curious though - is he an unhealthy SLE or LSE?

How about neither? He sounds more like gamma SF, he reminds me of an ESI that I know, although a bit of an unhealthy one. From his persistent pursuit of you, he sounds like an aggressor type in socionics. But from the way you described about him nitpicking on you non-stop, it sounds like he has hit on your Te PoLR.

SLEs are demanding yes, but I wouldn't say they are nitpicky. And you mentioned that he has a strong code of ethics, that's Fi if I'm not wrong. I'm yet to see an SLE with a "strong code of ethics", they have Fi PoLR afterall.

[Soupman]

Hi all! I'll try to keep this post as short and concise as possible, while still providing enough info to get some well-informed opinions. Thank you in advance!

A little background info on me - I'm a 27 year old female. I'm pretty confident I'm an IEI-Ni. I've waffled back and forth between that and EII. I'm much more well-rounded than I used to be, hence the confusion, but when I look back on my younger years, I'm pretty sure I'm not an EII. Although I now have firm principles that I refuse to compromise on and a deeper sense of emotional awareness as I age, that wasn't always the case. After getting out of an emotionally abusive relationship that lasted several years, I became firm in my convictions about what I wouldn't tolerate in a relationship. I also became more in touch with how **I** feel about things. Sometimes it would take me days or weeks before figuring out that something someone did to me hurt me. I was always keenly aware of other peoples' emotions and how they felt about me, but was very out of touch with my own. I've grown and developed so much that I considered I may be an EII, but I think I'm an IEI that has recognized and worked on her weaknesses. I'm open to any suggestions otherwise, though!

A few other details that lead me to this conclusion…I've always struggled very much with the practical and mundane. I tend to be very unaware of my physical surroundings. It's not that I intentionally try to be messy…I just don't pay attention to these things. I tend to live primarily inside my head. Cooking seemed like a magical and incomprehensible art until I learned in recent years how to take those practical steps. Although I'm a romantic at heart, I have this unquenchable thirst to understand everything. Even trying to make sense of my life through socionics has become a bit of an obsession that I think I need to simmer down from!

After being single for about 5 years after leaving that emotionally abusive relationship, I finally got into a committed relationship with someone new and I felt that I needed to end it after just a few months to preserve my sanity and integrity and self-respect. I'm just trying to get a grip on what happened and what I can learn from it.

I can't figure out whether he was an unhealthy SLE dual or an LSE conflictor. I know that sounds ridiculous, but read on…he's 29. At first he came across like a great catch. A nice combination of fun, hard working, caring and devoted to the idea of a committed relationship. He was very persistent in his pursuit of me and wanted to lock me down right away. It didn't take long for the red flags to come out. He's an absolute adrenaline junkie. Has gotten in trouble with the law in the past but is a (mostly) conformed citizen now. He loves motorcycles and still runs from the cops rather than accepting a ticket. He presents himself as life of the party, very talkative, shmoozy, flirtatious, spontaneous, etc., but with a strong code of ethics (albeit his own personal and questionable at times code).

At the same dang time, he's anal retentive to the point of obsession. He's destroyed relationships over people not conforming to the way he demands things to be done. Would any SLE color code his closet?! He nitpicked everything I did and said. I'm too this, too that, used the wrong words, the wrong tone, the wrong timing, didn't like my purse, my perfume was too strong, I smacked my lips while eating (I don't), etc. One time, we were supposed to go out to a fancy dinner with friends and I came to his place to meet him beforehand. I was dressed to the nines and he refused to even acknowledge me until he was done working on his car. He accused me of wanting to distract him and take up his time. I didn't want to do either of those things. I just couldn't understand why he was so cold in his dismissal of me when I put so much effort into getting dressed up for him. To top it all off, he had a terrible temper that would come out if I expressed an opinion that differed from his. He wasn't interested in communicating with me and coming to mutual understanding. He simply wanted to beat me into submission.

Clearly, regardless of type, this guy is unhealthy and has a lot of self-work to do. I'm still curious though - is he an unhealthy SLE or LSE?

Horrible SLE, you need to work on relationships, looking for red flags plus being "easy" so the person shows you their true colours when they think they've got you.