Gamma derail

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Haha I loooove this drama. (for stereotypical gay man ness)

Just the thing that bothers me about Adam is he never shows real human vulnerability, everything he types is said with a smarmy used car salesman tone. You could throw acid on his face and he would keep smiling like an asshole. And every attempt he tries to correct this falls flat so I see no point in defending him as he won't ever show his pain enough for me to care. Otoh it just doesn't bother me like it does bertrand and lungs. I think its a huge Fe vs Fi valuing thing as well.

[Skepsis]

Chocolate is better than vanilla. Anyone that thinks otherwise is just wrong.

[Bertrand]

Haha I loooove this drama. (for stereotypical gay man ness)

Just the thing that bothers me about Adam is he never shows real human vulnerability, everything is said with a smarmy used car salesman tone. You could throw acid on his face and he would keep smiling like an asshole. And every attempt he tries to correct this falls flat so I see no point in defending him as he won't ever show his pain enough for me to care. Otoh it just doesn't bother me like it does bertnard and lungs. I think its a huge Fe vs Fi valuing thing as well.

i like this, you're almost there, except its not so much Fe v Fi rather Fe v Te (although this is a quibble because Fi is Te in a lot of ways) in my case and the point is he's ruining socionics from a thinking standpoint because the structural representation put forward by the entire social ecosystem is incredibly perverse and hes at the core of it in some ways

and in terms of logic of actions, it makes sense that someone calls it out for what it is, otherwise it can never fix itself or at least be viewed in the proper light by 3rd party observers

ps: I should change my name to bertnard. I love that

[Number 9 large]

Haha I loooove this drama. (for stereotypical gay man ness)

Just the thing that bothers me about Adam is he never shows real human vulnerability, everything is said with a smarmy used car salesman tone. You could throw acid on his face and he would keep smiling like an asshole. And every attempt he tries to correct this falls flat so I see no point in defending him as he won't ever show his pain enough for me to care. Otoh it just doesn't bother me like it does bertnard and lungs. I think its a huge Fe vs Fi valuing thing as well.

Yeah but who cares if he does. Leave people be. Who the fuck are they to decide who should behave in which way wtf, who are they, the moral code police? Lmfao, we get it, theres certain people you dont like, dont have to stirr up the whole forum for it

[ashlesha]

Haha I loooove this drama. (for stereotypical gay man ness)

Just the thing that bothers me about Adam is he never shows real human vulnerability, everything he types is said with a smarmy used car salesman tone. You could throw acid on his face and he would keep smiling like an asshole. And every attempt he tries to correct this falls flat so I see no point in defending him as he won't ever show his pain enough for me to care. Otoh it just doesn't bother me like it does bertrand and lungs. I think its a huge Fe vs Fi valuing thing as well.

I like your Fe here <3

[darya]

Besides him being creepy, you're putting way too much power into Adam's hands. It's not that super serious? @Bertrand I know you're going to be pissed, but since you're retyping everybody, it's obvious from this thread you're FiSe e6.

[Number 9 large]

If anything its more immoral to think of yourself so highly that you can go and spoil every thread for your own personal crusade. Very selfish if you ask me, and, as many pointed out already, uncalled for.

He doesnt see the irony that systematically harrassing a guy because he harrassed others (albeit probably even unintentional, only adds insult to injury) makes no fking sense. Its like killing for peace, or screwing for virginity.

[ashlesha]

I waffle on Bertrands type but stuff like this along with like, his conceptualization in this thread of the conflict with Adam being this meta thing about quadras and social structures that he describes in great detail makes me think intuitive. The ethical impetus behind it could easily be Fi HA to me.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

You're sweet lungs but imo my post was mainly Fi. My Fe was only the first sentence haha but yeah Fe isn't always vapid or shallow.

[ashlesha]

You're sweet lungs but imo my post was mainly Fi. My Fe was only the first sentence haha but yeah Fe isn't always vapid or shallow.

I guess the offering up your opinion on Adam was fi but overall the whole thing loosened up some of the phlegm clogging the feeling in the thread, so it was like good Fe to me.

[ashlesha]

If anything its more immoral to think of yourself so highly that you can go and spoil every thread for your own personal crusade. Very selfish if you ask me, and, as many pointed out already, uncalled for.

Also, this is Fe too. You won't get through to an Fi valuer who feels strongly about something by telling them they're spoiling the atmosphere for others lol.

[Number 9 large]

Also, this is Fe too. You won't get through to an Fi valuer who feels strongly about something by telling them they're spoiling the atmosphere for others lol.

Yeah i dont care. He shouldnt derail threads. Period.

[ashlesha]

[Number 9 large]

If acting like a manchild is fi then i guess i dont value fi

[Singu]

Erm what, if you haven't noticed I haven't really said anything about anyone on here, except for some obvious nutcases like you Bertrand lol. I have pretty much neutral opinion on most people here, because I'm not that involved anyway, and I don't really have any problems with most people on here.

All I see is all talk and no action. Just more bitching and whining about something that somebody did. I think lungs was a mod before, and if Adam was causing so much trouble, then she could have banned him. Or she could take it up to mu to let him take an action. Ultimately it would be up to mu to decide since this is his forum. But none of this has been done. I'm not saying that harassment and things don't exist, I don't know, because Adam hasn't done anything to me personally and I'm not even a female so I wouldn't know. But all I'm saying is, nothing is being done about it other than to continue whining and bitching about a certain person as if that is going to solve anything. There's too much passive aggression and cheap snipes whenever chance they get.

I don't understand why some people take this stuff so seriously, or think that there are Socionics "explanations" for everything. If anything, these Socionics "explanations" are distracting from real issues at hand. Besides people can't even type themselves or each other correctly, so how do you know that anything is even correct? I feel like Socionics is just yet another "reality distortion field", which makes people on this forum unusually passive-aggressive because they can't touch the real issues at hand. It all gets reduced to "Fi this, Fe that, Ti this, Quadra that". Those are only pseudo-explanations. People can't touch on the real issues so they get aggravated. I don't think things can be solved as long as there are "Socionics explanations".

[darya]

Also, this is Fe too. You won't get through to an Fi valuer who feels strongly about something by telling them they're spoiling the atmosphere for others lol.

It's that he goes against everybody like irrational lunatic and retypes them based on personal feelings that's annoying. It's contraproductive for forum as a whole and is unnecessarily devisive and kill-joy - imo, of course. I get feeling strongly about something and have nothing against overt agression, but it's needless and exaggerated in this case. I guess for Fi valuers it's disrespectful telling them their feelings are innapropriate for situation?

[FDG]

Besides him being creepy, you're putting way too much power into Adam's hands. It's not that super serious?

That´s also my take on the issue...

[squark]

If this thread really is about stopping misinformation and the spread of bad stereotypes, then yeah Adam does an awful lot of bad typing and spreading misinformation, his typing methods are basically:

Oh you're pretty, are you ESI or IEI?
That jacket he's wearing, it's just like one I have, he's LIE.
You can't be SEE, you look LSI, but that jewelry you're wearing, you're probably ESI.
Trust me, I know this type.
I find her really attractive, she's ESI, can I get her number. Just to prove that such divine creatures live in this world of course, I won't use it.

And he sees what he wants to see but I don't think it's good Si. In the post that started this thread he described a woman rubbing her hand, and rather than recognizing that this is something people do when their hands are cramped and tired, for example after typing a lot, he jumps to the conclusion that she's showing that she's single and available And later, when he describes her trying to focus on her work and get things done while he interrupts, he takes the fact that she's not looking at him as some sort of teasing game, rather than recognizing that he's being annoying by continually asking her questions. The body language of not looking at someone and handing them a card while focusing on your work shows the exact opposite of interest.

Of course he doesn't pick up on any of this because in his world, women, especially ESIs are put on earth for his pleasure, and yeah, it's creepy. And it does influence how he types and causes him to promote some kind of stereotype about all LIEs being like this. Thankfully they're not.

Other people are just as bad about spreading misinformation and using themselves as a benchmark of a type with which to compare all others. Using type as a weapon to insult and dismiss other people's opinions is one of the most egregious ways that bad stereotypes and misinformation get spread. Being Te or Ti polr or whatever shouldn't mean that what a person says is devalued, or that if they're Ne polr they suddenly can't see past their own nose, if they're beta they're part of some kind of brainless mob, and if they're delta they're cowards who tremble at their own shadows. And picking out characteristics that you don't like about someone and using them to type just turns everything into a bunch of personal bickering and fault-finding where everyone is automatically on the defensive. What happens when you put someone on the defensive? They stop listening, and start attacking back. You get battle-typing and you don't get learning or understanding.

It's that he goes against everybody like irrational lunatic and retypes them based on personal feelings that's annoying.

I agree with this and have brought it up with @Bertrand a few times. But he's in crusade mode now and won't listen.

[FDG]

If this thread really is about stopping misinformation and the spread of bad stereotypes, then yeah Adam does an awful lot of bad typing and spreading misinformation, his typing methods are basically:

Oh you're pretty, are you ESI or IEI?
That jacket he's wearing, it's just like one I have, he's LIE.
You can't be SEE, you look LSI, but that jewelry you're wearing, you're probably ESI.
Trust me, I know this type.
I find her really attractive, she's ESI, can I get her number. Just to prove that such divine creatures live in this world of course, I won't use it.

Lol. That's all true, but we all have someone like this in our company of friends, don't we? We're a big family of weirdos on this forum....

[Adam Strange]

If this thread really is about stopping misinformation and the spread of bad stereotypes, then yeah Adam does an awful lot of bad typing and spreading misinformation, his typing methods are basically:

Oh you're pretty, are you ESI or IEI?
That jacket he's wearing, it's just like one I have, he's LIE.
You can't be SEE, you look LSI, but that jewelry you're wearing, you're probably ESI.
Trust me, I know this type.
I find her really attractive, she's ESI, can I get her number. Just to prove that such divine creatures live in this world of course, I won't use it.

And he sees what he wants to see but I don't think it's good Si. In the post that started this thread he described a woman rubbing her hand, and rather than recognizing that this is something people do when their hands are cramped and tired, for example after typing a lot, he jumps to the conclusion that she's showing that she's single and available And later, when he describes her trying to focus on her work and get things done while he interrupts, he takes the fact that she's not looking at him as some sort of teasing game, rather than recognizing that he's being annoying by continually asking her questions. The body language of not looking at someone and handing them a card while focusing on your work shows the exact opposite of interest.

Of course he doesn't pick up on any of this because in his world, women, especially ESIs are put on earth for his pleasure, and yeah, it's creepy. And it does influence how he types and causes him to promote some kind of stereotype about all LIEs being like this. Thankfully they're not.

@squark, most of your post was constructive, but I should caution you against thinking that you know what's going on better than a person who is there. Your judgement is not absolute, rather it is filtered through many prejudices, as are all of our judgements. If you assume you know the Truth about something, you should immediately question your assumptions.

For the record, the woman whom I described, when I went back to thank her yesterday for the list of restaurants, said to me, "You should take me to lunch." Which I am considering doing.

[Bertrand]

Adam you're posting as if whether this "ESI" goes on a date with you makes anything you said true, which is entirely why you're a tremendous ******

... for the record

[Singu]

Ah, it looks like Bertrand's unhealthy obsessive attachment with Adam has started. I pity you, and good luck.

If anyone should be banned, then it's Bertrand for his disgustingly unhealthy stalkerish obsession with whomever that he happens to not like. The fact that he follows around users' posts and threads and hijacks them with low-key and overt harassments and insults. This guy is a serious annoyance to certain users and a serious liability to the forum. Perhaps this should be done "democratically", shall we? Not to mention, he needs to be checked at a mental institution for his obsessive behavior.

Bertrand: Grow the hell up and act like the adult that you actually are.

[Number 9 large]

Adam you're posting as if whether this "ESI" goes on a date with you makes anything you said true, which is entirely why you're a tremendous ******

... for the record

Well yea it definitely shows that she was interested in him after all, so his assumptions could have been right dumbass.

Also i agree with adam that everything we see is tainted by our hopes, dreams and needs. Nobody has a monopoly on the truth, also not squark.

Besides i think the reason adam gets so much flack is because he uses sexuality in a humourous way. Sure arent we all inclined to hope the people we are attracted to are our duals and that everything will work out fine? Why is he so heavily criticised for this? Is it because hes 50 and 50year olds arent supposed to have sexual needs?

[Bertrand]

its okay, I know under different circumstances you two would be the first to kiss the ring

thats what that glimmer in Jack's eye is, for future reference

[Hope]

@squark, most of your post was constructive, but I should caution you against thinking that you know what's going on better than a person who is there. Your judgement is not absolute, rather it is filtered through many prejudices, as are all of our judgements. If you assume you know the Truth about something, you should immediately question your assumptions.

For the record, the woman whom I described, when I went back to thank her yesterday for the list of restaurants, said to me, "You should take me to lunch." Which I am considering doing.

…or she simply thought that you should thank her effort of doing you favors with buying her lunch. That a lady ask you for going to lunch doesn't mean that she is romantically interested in you either. "Your judgment is not absolute, rather its filtered through many prejudices. If you assume you know the Truth about something, you should immediately question your assumptions."


When I met my ILE friend I ask him to take me home because he lived nearby. Lucky me, he didn't thought that I was romantically interested in him and we've been good friends since then.

[wacey]

Pretty rich of Bertrand to call people ******s when he himself is gay.

[Bertrand]

lol

[Grendel]

If anything its more immoral to think of yourself so highly that you can go and spoil every thread for your own personal crusade. Very selfish if you ask me, and, as many pointed out already, uncalled for.

Agreed, but:

He doesnt see the irony that systematically harrassing a guy because he harrassed others (albeit probably even unintentional, only adds insult to injury) makes no fking sense. Its like killing for peace, or screwing for virginity.

He probably not only endorses this behavior, but overtly condones it, with "because I'm Ni-Se and this is superior" as his justification. It's a frightening brand of ultra-consequentialism I've seen flood the internet lately. I shudder to think what would happen were these mindsets taken back into meatspace en masse.

inb4 he gives me a 5th-grade-level insult in poor syntax thinking he's such a badass

[Bertrand]

sorry you guys have turned not having any teeth into a virtue

how many people praise the dog with no teeth for not biting? how do you expect that will work out?

[Grendel]

sorry you guys have turned not having any teeth into a virtue

how many people praise the dog with no teeth for not biting? how do you expect that will work out?

It is a virtue, jackass. If you went outside and "rightly" bit everyone who rubbed you the wrong way you'd get locked in a cage. That's called being civilized.

And fucking yes, it is a defense of potential imperfection in the name of peace. That is what the majority of the world has agreed upon. That is more rational than the alternative: letting hotheaded "mavericks" like you run around and shit in every available sandbox. If that goes against your value system, go ahead and wage war on society. Enjoy all the five minutes you have of that war before you get crushed like a grape.


You have long overstayed your welcome in this thread and drowned your "moral" outrage at Adam by compulsively "biting" back at any criticism of your obnoxious behavior. This stopped being about him and started being about you a while ago. I also find it quite ironic that @lungs has proven what a worthless sjw she is by letting her triggering at a perceived sexual slight prompt her to support one of the main culprits contributing to the same decline in post quality even after complaining about this quality a couple months back. You can turn around and say she was blaming me, but in case you haven't noticed I barely ever post anything compared to the outpourings of bullshit you flood the forum with and I ignore. I barely even post anything compared to the "friends" I have here.



No one thinks your remarks are witty or piercing anymore. They were for about ten seconds. It was a nice break from the miles of prohibitively-long "analyses" you wrote, where you used your highly subjective worldview and critique of situations not involving you to try to look above-it-all and insulted whomever you wanted without provocation in the name of "objectivity."

[Bertrand]

when people stop showing up is when I'm done being witty and piercing

[Grendel]

i am right

i'm so right i don't even need evidence anymore

ur mum is a bingus and ur father touched ur peepee as a kid

[Singu]

You have long overstayed your welcome in this thread and drowned your "moral" outrage at Adam by compulsively "biting" back at any criticism of your obnoxious behavior. This stopped being about him and started being about you a while ago.

No one thinks your remarks are witty or piercing anymore. They were for about ten seconds. It was a nice break from the miles of prohibitively-long "analyses" you wrote, where you used your highly subjective worldview and critique of situations not involving you to try to look above-it-all and insulted whomever you wanted without provocation in the name of "objectivity."

Yar, this is pretty much what I've been thinking.

I have no idea why Bertrand thinks that he has some kind of "moral" leverage, when he himself hasn't shown to be a good judge of morality, as shown by his constant harassing of certain members and not to mention his unusually juvenile & obsessive behavior, his completely obnoxious personality...

I'd suppose what you really see deep inside Bertrand is a scared and if not a paranoid little man... which he must at first go on the offensive by creating bogus "Socionics analysis" and "Socionics ad hominems" in an attempt to put others into submission. Those are his desperate and last ditch attempts to gain leverage when he has been backed into a corner and has nothing left to say, which is a pattern that I've noticed, lol. The rest are his "witty" and "philosophical" sayings that are overly vague and don't really mean much of anything if looked closely. Basically, the guy is a complete fraud and a charlatan playing parlor tricks on people. He is the very sophist that he claims to despise. It seems like those are his two options, either to submit or be submitted. There are no other options and he can't relate to others on equal grounds.

Perhaps he can keep blaming "others" for the very problems that he had created himself, whether it's Socionically-related "explanations" that he has created in his mind or something else, and not that the very problem has to do with the fact that he is a completely obnoxious person who is acting inappropriately. But how long can he keep this going? Perhaps he will finally "get" it if enough people keep hitting him in the head with it...

[Bertrand]

i guess if I ever want to become horribly depressed and self loathing ill consider seeing things your way

[Grendel]

i guess if I ever want to become horribly depressed and self loathing ill consider seeing things your way

Lol maybe you need that for a while. In a reasonable dose. Rethink your life and all that.

For someone playing the role of the selfless moral critic we deserve but don't need, you do an awful bad job at critiquing your own behavior first.

[Bertrand]

whats your point again? im hurting people's feelings?

using socionics in this way to make people feel good is like using an iphone to pound nails. you're just defending stupidity and getting awfully self righteous about it, while at the same time being the emobodied example of what happens when you live your life that way

so.. no?

[Grendel]

No you're a nuisance and you're polluting the front page of the forum. No one is hurt by your sophomoric "insults." The kids who carve "penis" on the bathroom stalls do better than you.

using socionics in this way to make people feel good is like using an iphone to pound nails.

Never said I wanted that. Sexual harassment does indeed go beyond the realm of Socionics and into the realm of behavior that should be punishable by forum moderators, but I suppose they're a bit lax here. Otherwise I would have several infractions by now for other things I've done.

you're just defending stupidity and getting awfully self righteous about it, while at the same time being the emobodied example of what happens when you live your life that way

Who appointed you to be the bastion of intellectual standards again? Your behavior here just really gives a strong impression that you rode out a serious incident to display your ability to "wreck" people and now you're still riding it out even after everyone else has stopped caring. What you see as having standards, many of us see as you being the irritating buzzing fly of this forum. This whole issue might've been solved by getting a sufficient mass of people to report this harassment to the mods, but then you have to discredit yourself by stalking this individual in retaliation because it's somehow up to you to punish an action that's explicitly in the rules by doing the very same thing, not just leaving it to the authorities.

[Bertrand]

yeah nothing to see here

[ashlesha]

I figured calling out Adam publicly would bring out the mras but it also brought out a couple people who see it and understand and that makes it okay. I'm having a good day and I don't think there's anything left to say in this thread. Thank you @squark and @Aylen!

[Aylen]

its such a unidimensional and, dare I say it, sensory approach to reality though. its interesting to see which types defend it because presumably they should know better, in principle.. the idea that this could be going on should not be so mindblowing as it seems to be

not to mention certain posters who are all about exposing things seem to be conspicuously silent. I imagine the deal is many recognize it in principle as being possible, but object to exposing it or taking sides for other reasons, which I imagine revolve largely around Si valuing

it would be nice if they could just come right out and say, "yeah this whole thing is a sham, but its our comfy sham we've grown accustomed to, so stop messing with it"

the entire unfolding of this thing is like a case study in how Si functions in people's opinions on what's proper and what isn't... every single person here who has taken up Adams defense either explicitly or implicitly can be seen to have higher Si > Se dimensionality [1], and this is how I've always known I'm not ILI, cause when the chips are down, they can pretend to be smarter than the crowd, and criticize away, they will side with the mob if their own comfort is at stake every time. same thing with EII IEI etc. so much for ethics. this is the basis for scapegoating in general that gets the ethical seal of approval. it flows both ways though, but the wailing and gnashing of teeth is incredible when the weak outnumber the strong and the strong nevertheless get their way. they would do well to remember their stance here and now when in other aspects of their life they find themselves being pushed around and wonder how someone could do such a thing.

at least ILI is consistent in that when theyre being pushed around they recognize they essentially asked for it and its pure pragmatism at bottom. I can kind of respect that, but the ethical sheen on what amounts to pure comfort sensing is harder to swallow

[1] honorable mention to ESE Aylen who is both Si valuing and not a defender of Adam, because of that 4d willingness to speak out. however the Si valuing aspect means she sides with the overall Si preservation of the status quo at large, hence her confused and contradictory stance. it is actually quite consistent with her type. I actually really respect that despite being a confused mess sometimes she at least isnt defending Adam and trying to wax moral about it, in the way I go onto to criticize IEI and EII, because shes not weak willed. the sad thing is people got her thinking she's inferior for this not superior (she wishes she were IEI)

people like chae actually probably have the balls to speak out but are silent precisely because they value Si too. they likewise see this to be fishy but at the same time their hands are tied because they value the status quo, its probably why they try to aim at global issues because they want to prevent things from ever getting to this state, because by this point its too late for them to help and theyre likewise bound to the mob

Oh so now anyone who doesn't agree with you has higher Si. <-- Ti polr

Yes, I wanna be ESE just as you wish you were LIE when it is blatantly obvious to most people you are not. You changed your type, as I said you would, and you will change it again. I am thinking EIE is next on your agenda. Then you will proceed to throw all the EIE out of beta. I am sure someone like sorrows would love to claim me as her identical. You are just showing your lack of understanding of socionics.

The gamma males who used to post here would have destroyed your arguments and then had you for lunch. Your logic concerning this whole thing is your biggest weakness and you lash out at everyone who doesn't drop to their knees for you. I am not going to drop to my knees for some SEE who can't see the forest for the trees.

I know I belittled you publically, and poked at you a few times before that so your response, "must be ESE" because everyone knows ESE do that. They live for knocking arrogant pricks down a peg or two. What did you expect the response to be when you come on a forum making fun of IEIs in particular and trashing beta? I was giving you a taste of your own medicine but you refuse to swallow. I am not sorry about it because you troll people with disinformation. I may not be your agent of karma but I will give karma a hand now and then.

All your posts here point to not only weak Ni but also weak Ti. I posted it already but people can look at my post again to see my point. You on the other hand have said nothing about me that even attempts to explain why I am ESE. I take more issue with it because I know what true ESE look like and again you spread disinformation not unlike Trump who can lie even though the public can look up his lies that are documented on video.

This isn't about Adam anymore. It is you seeking attention which is all you have done since joining. You will write any wall of nonsense to get it and yeah Adam with weak intuition ate up every word until you turned on him. This is all a joke. Whatever Adam has done you have overshadowed by proclaiming yourself savior of gamma and looking like an idiot in the process. No one is really seeing what we mean about Adam thanks to you. You fucking crybaby.

You show strong Se and creative ethics, creative in more ways than one but you are unable to connect the dots. You can't see the big picture and you are stuck in your only little fantasy of persecution. Just like Adam, you brought it all on yourself. The world is unfair and you talk out of both sides of your mouth. Good job, Whinin' Donald.