Two Points of Least Resistance

[User Name]

Do you ever feel like you have two PoLR?

Personally, as a LII-Ti, maybe due to my very weak Suggestive, sometimes I feel that way. As an example, I hate too much display of emotions from others. And since that function is so weak and unconscious, I happen to have sporadic bursts, like sudden enthusiasm, which last very little but are intense. Moments that make me feel completely realized. Other than that, my behavior can be easily confused with PoLR. Always poorly reacting to emotional stimulation and insecure about it.

Is it normal? I'm asking mainly to Inert subtypes: can you relate?

[Bertrand]

I feel like ignoring and polr are similar in that you dont pay attention to them until they grab your attention with something, it just so happens ignoring is sophisticated enough that it catches problems before they become painful on the level of polr. i feel like suggestive is kind of the opposite in that you don't ignore or neglect it per se, you're actually kind of sensitive to information on that channel, but rather because of its low sophistication everything looks scarier than it really is

i bet you're actually pretty good on Fe. not necessarily good at Fe, but I doubt anyone thinks of you as evil, from the Fe point of view, in fact you're actually probably really charming, especially to ESE. the real polrs and danger is from the stuff you dont see coming

if we want to get all rumsfieldian, in a certain sense your unknown unknowns are the biggest threats, but theyre less anxiety producing which is your known unknowns, which is suggestive. and your ignoring is an unknown unknown you happen to be good at so it tends to work itself out, but polr is unknown unknown and you're bad at it so you should be concered but youre not, so while it is true Fe is weak and probably needs to be dealt with care, I dont think its in the same league as polr, because that fear is actually keeping you safe and is an indicator youre at least tracking the issue

ignoring can still fuck you over in situations where you dont get second chances or time to think. i think the older you get the more suggestive will start to improve, but ignoring will more or less be the same shit over and over, same with polr, maybe in slightly more sophisticated ways, but its the willfull innatention that is constant. with your repressed function you learn to strike a better balance (Fe) but ignoring is really hard to get right and polr is impossible to ever master (its better to think in terms of mobilizing to protect polr than try to "fix" polr directly, in my opinion)

that's my take on it anyway

[User Name]

@Bertrand: Thank you. This is very interesting. And it completely makes sense, in the way that I can relate to it.

[Bertrand]

no problem. people love LII

[User Name]

Anyone else? What do you think about it?

[idontgiveaf]

I think i have two. SI POLR AND TI POLR

[The Reality Denialist]

Hard to understand. Psychological distance between people. I don't call people fat or anything like that but I look mentally far too brainy. I might have innate ways of helping out but it is rarely based on bonding per se. I point it out when people make decisions based on their feelings.

I like yummy stuff. I can go without food preserve my mood and I'm (/I was) very picky. Stuff like controlling breathing is not easy. Maybe I'm physiologically lost cause. Apparently I'm physiologically very fidgety and don't know where to "land".

I think about it and then stop. Hardly speak about it on public. Keep it in reserves. Never want feedback.

@User Name
LII is the emotivist and ESE is the constructivist. You might prefer constructive emotional expression that aims for something else than just capturing attention.

[Myst]

Do you ever feel like you have two PoLR?

Personally, as a LII-Ti, maybe due to my very weak Suggestive, sometimes I feel that way. As an example, I hate too much display of emotions from others. And since that function is so weak and unconscious, I happen to have sporadic bursts, like sudden enthusiasm, which last very little but are intense. Moments that make me feel completely realized. Other than that, my behavior can be easily confused with PoLR. Always poorly reacting to emotional stimulation and insecure about it.

Is it normal? I'm asking mainly to Inert subtypes: can you relate?

Think you just probably had negative experiences for - I still say try and check out AvPD or simply social anxiety instead of SPD.

[Hope]

It's explained in the Dimensionality of the functions/elements.

LIIs have 1D Se and Fe. Which means that you Se and your Fe works only in one dimension: element experienced just in a completely personal, individual, subjective way.








Fe as Suggestive Function

"The individual often becomes engrossed in serious work, which leads him to neglect his complementary need for fun and emotional release. He also feels vulnerable expressing himself spontaneously in public, which allows bad emotions and stress to build up, leading to depression or sudden hostility. He enjoys being around people who make him feel comfortable expressing himself, and who can make every day new and exciting.Although he may present a hard exterior in the company of strangers, he is likely to not be serious at all with people who know him better. His behavior changes radically - a calm and serious structured person will suddenly become jovial and warm."


"LIIs are usually lacking in outward emotional energy. LIIs may typically seem stiff, cold, rational, unresponsive to emotional concerns, and overly formal in social settings. LIIs may feel uneasy and insecure about their adaptability to social situations. They appreciate the interactive efforts of others to make them feel comfortable, at ease, and a part of the group. They tend to liven up in situations of amusement and conviviality. In situations where they feel comfortable and unconditionally accepted, they may drop their tendency towards aloofness and engage in uncharacteristic silliness.
LIIs may be highly sensitive to the signs of emotional approval that they receive from others. They may be highly appreciative of displays of emotional warmth and friendliness. They may find normative emotional expectations placed on them to be stifling, and tend to prefer nonjudgmental environments without character scrutiny. Additionally, for fear of emotional reprisal, LIIs often tend to be rather noncritical of others' actions.
LIIs may be quite susceptible to acting in accordance to the mood of others, and may undervalue the importance of avoiding argumentation on their mental well-being." From sociotype.com

[ooo]

@ycit where did you find such a cool pic? :-O

[Hope]

@ycit where did you find such a cool pic? :-O

Which one? the diagram?

[ooo]

yes the diagram

[Tearsofaclown]

I don't as much about the details as you guys but I would maybe think that 1d is a polr and we have two 1d functions. Pretty much what you said in the OP.

I have heard that one uses their suggestive function childishly. Like Tom Cruise could be Fe suggestive and look at the way he acts. Jumping on couches and shit. His emotions are fucking weird.

The way I see it is about strength. A Se user can handle Se easier. It is lighter for them and easier to move around/manipulate. But a Se polr, that object can barely be lifted off the ground. You are like a kid who picked up something too heavy and it is coming down hard and without grace. Because you don't have the strength to control it. The movement of the object will be clumsy and strained.

I see functions and shit as muscles in general. Postures. A type is a posture. It is us at rest. The muscles that we always engage. A person with 1d somewhere is weak there. Like having strong upper body and chicken legs. Or rounded shoulders. weak back and strong front. This analogy also fits with antagonists. Like Ti and Fi cannot be flexed at the same time. Just like a tricep and bicep cannot. When one works, the other must rest.

and perhaps I see it practically cuz of Ti and Se; if I am EIE, my Te is stronger than my Ti. I may prefer Ti but I am gonna use my stronger weapon sometime even if I don't prefer it. Cuz it is easier and has more impact.

This guy pulled over for example. lol. He has weak Se. He responds so disproportionately. No clue how to deal with force/pressure applied. I am similar with cops though not so whiny. lol. Guy is probably an LII actually. Please tell me what type interaction is taking place here.

[Hope]

yes the diagram

http://definitive-socionics.wikidot.com/16-types

[User Name]

@Myst: I'm describing you some of my behaviors:

- I don't like hugging my mum/dad. I just don't feel at ease and, when they want to, I always reject their initiative. This happens only with closer people. I don't know why, but It's easier for me to hug strangers or friends rather than my parents.

- I love solitude. Any kind of social interaction is a lot of effort to me. My parents are pushing me to go outside with my classmates, even though they know that I completely dislike it, since I find this activity boring, pointless and I see as a "duty". Who wants to do something against their will? If I am with nice or fun people (my band, let's say), I forget about this problem and completely open up. Sometimes I think that the real problem is just breaking the ice. For me it's really difficult, because, when trying to join a group, I'm afraid that my presence is not well accepted or that I won't be able to find inputs to be "myself".

- They always compare me to an "old person", complaining about my habit to stay at home all day. Furthermore, I prefer spending time with elderly people. They make me feel safe.

I know it's strange. I'm weird. It sounds like SPD + AvPD + weak Fe/Se. I think it's very LII-ish, but I'm not sure.

[Myst]

@Myst: I'm describing you some of my behaviors:

- I don't like hugging my mum/dad. I just don't feel at ease and, when they want to, I always reject their initiative. This happens only with closer people. I don't know why, but It's easier for me to hug strangers or friends rather than my parents.

- I love solitude. Any kind of social interaction is a lot of effort to me. My parents are pushing me to go outside with my classmates, even though they know that I completely dislike it, since I find this activity boring, pointless and I see as a "duty". Who wants to do something against their will? If I am with nice or fun people (my band, let's say), I forget about this problem and completely open up. Sometimes I think that the real problem is just breaking the ice. For me it's really difficult, because, when trying to join a group, I'm afraid that my presence is not well accepted or that I won't be able to find inputs to be "myself".

- They always compare me to an "old person", complaining about my habit to stay at home all day. Furthermore, I prefer spending time with elderly people. They make me feel safe.

I know it's strange. I'm weird. It sounds like SPD + AvPD + weak Fe/Se. I think it's very LII-ish, but I'm not sure.

You are complete LII with Fe DS, I wouldn't worry about that part. The opening up spontaneously with suddenly more emotional expressiveness in a good fun emotional atmosphere is the Fe DS. If you feel Socionics doesn't cover enough aspects of your social stuff beyond this bit then you probably feel so for a reason. It's not expected to cover everything.

If you are afraid that "my presence is not well accepted", that to me sounds like AvPD/social anxiety, not SPD, at all. SPD simply means no such need of connecting with people. AvPD/social anxiety means having needs for it but worrying about rejection too much and so seeing the whole social stuff in a negative light resulting in avoidance. SPD people don't worry about that (indifferent to criticism/praise too). So based on that I think you should really drop the SPD idea (my opinion anyway). It just shares the introversion trait with your type (LII) and superficially shares the socially avoidant behaviour with social anxiety/AvPD. Internally entirely different attitude though.

I hear many guys don't like hugging all that much with most people. As for why this is specifically the case with your parents, dunno, sounds like you'd need to go deeper to understand that one, but you could discuss with a good therapist that is sympathetic and who you can trust (sorry if trivial suggestion or if you already have a therapist).

OK I think that's all the input I can give, I hope it helped some.

[squark]

I know it's strange. I'm weird. It sounds like SPD + AvPD + weak Fe/Se. I think it's very LII-ish, but I'm not sure.

I'm sure you've already read it, but Gulenko is an LII-Ti also, and I was reminded of his description of them often in the things you said: http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...ile_by_Gulenko

So yes, very LII-ish, and not so weird after all = )

[User Name]

@Myst, @squark: Thanks for your inputs, you've helped a lot.

My real problem is to start, to join the group, to break the ice. After that point I can become really sociable, behaving exactly like any Childlike type. Sometimes I even act like an ILE. As you said, this is actually more AvPD than SPD. I bet that this fear it's somehow related to Se PoLR. Once the obstacle is tackled, Fe is free to express itself. It makes a lot of sense. Thank you again.

[Myst]

@Myst, @squark: Thanks for your inputs, you've helped a lot.

My real problem is to start, to join the group, to break the ice. After that point I can become really sociable, behaving exactly like any Childlike type. Sometimes I even act like an ILE. As you said, this is actually more AvPD than SPD. I bet that this fear it's somehow related to Se PoLR. Once the obstacle is tackled, Fe is free to express itself. It makes a lot of sense. Thank you again.

Np I hope you find a way to get better with this.