What cognitive function is useful in learning new language?

[idontgiveaf]

I'm learning new language now and i just suddenly realized (Aha moment! Intuition moment ) Ni moment?

I realized that the use of Ti, helps.

What do you think of this?

Like i think logical thinking helps learning new language. It's not just about memorizing stuff, (Si use, i fail) but it's Ti.

Using your common sense in constructing sentences.

Like you'll know the basic grammar structure. Eventhough you lack of vocabularies, you can use synonyms to imply what you are trying to say.
Thoughts about it? Is that a Ti use?

[Tallmo]

It's not just about memorizing stuff, (Si use, i fail)

Memorizing stuff is not Si

[ouronis]

Only comment is that in your last paragraph, I have noticed non-Ne Ti egos having issues with needing one-meaning-per-word vocabulary for second languages and so generally cannot use this strategy and have to learn more vocab as a result.

[squark]

Only comment is that in your last paragraph, I have noticed non-Ne Ti egos having issues with needing one-meaning-per-word vocabulary for second languages and so generally cannot use this strategy and have to learn more vocab as a result.

[ouronis]

?

[idontgiveaf]

Memorizing stuff is not Si

Alright lol.

Dang. Mbti sterotypes doesn't apply here. I should read more socionics lol

[idontgiveaf]

Only comment is that in your last paragraph, I have noticed non-Ne Ti egos having issues with needing one-meaning-per-word vocabulary for second languages and so generally cannot use this strategy and have to learn more vocab as a result.

What i meant is, I'll give you an example :

Situation: you're in japan, and you saw a book, and you have to borrow it. But, you don’t know how is that book called. (lack of vocabulary problems)

So, even if you don't know what is the Japanese word of dictionary, you can rather ask:

Can i borrow the book that has English - Japanese translation?

"the book that has English - Japanese translation"

- You know the translation of that.

- But you don't know what is it called.

- But the listener will understand,

"Oh, the dictionary?"

"Yes!"

- Survived!

That's what i meant, you find ways to describe what you wanna mean. In case you forgot the Japanese vocabulary for it.

[Adam Strange]

To learn a new language, it helps to be right-handed.

[idontgiveaf]

To learn a new language, it helps to be right-handed.

I see. Do you wanna see me nudes

[Pookie]

Functions refer to Base, Creative. Role, etc... Ni, Ti, Si are elements

[The Reality Denialist]

Sometimes I wonder, if we all used regular language with no irregularities then translation process would be easier.
Furthermore if we learned regular language as intermediate language then machine translation to another would become bit easier. Of course it won't apply in obscure cases like poetry.


Overall there are artificial languages (designed for regularity and consistent rules in mind) like Esperanto which people tend to learn very fast.


I think reading and writing process itself is always bit of ugly hack when it comes to naturally evolved languages. Same thing applies to grammar as well.

Natural languages are not extremely logical.

[Chae]

Everywhere on the forum... yer begging to get roasted What a circus.

[idontgiveaf]

Functions refer to Base, Creative. Role, etc... Ni, Ti, Si are elements

What's that??

[idontgiveaf]

Sometimes I wonder, if we all used regular language with no irregularities then translation process would be easier.
Furthermore if we learned regular language as intermediate language then machine translation to another would become bit easier. Of course it won't apply in obscure cases like poetry.


Overall there are artificial languages (designed for regularity and consistent rules in mind) like Esperanto which people tend to learn very fast.


I think reading and writing process itself is always bit of ugly hack when it comes to naturally evolved languages. Same thing applies to grammar as well.

Natural languages are not extremely logical.

Well I'm studying Japanese. The hardest language for English speakers lol. It.needs logic + memorization

But I'm trying to hack the memorization part

[idontgiveaf]

Everywhere on the forum... yer begging to get roasted What a circus.

What? I didn't understand it Rihanna I'm soooo sorry 😥

[Olimpia]

Verbal/Linguistic Intelligence helps. That's it.

[Simo]

To learn a new language, it helps to be right-handed.

are you left-handed?

[Adam Strange]

are you left-handed?

Yes.

Throws left, bats right.

[The Reality Denialist]

Left-handedness or mixed-handedness means that you are more likely to experience learning difficulties.

I'm bit mixed but mostly right-handed (there are couple of things where I tend to change handedness).


I think it is probably more common that left-handed have bit more mixed-handedness in the mix than right-handed [I have to check this] because the problem is most prevalent in mixed-handedness.

[Zero]

Well I'm studying Japanese. The hardest language for English speakers lol. It.needs logic + memorization

But I'm trying to hack the memorization part

I know a ILE that loves Japanese and is a grammar nazi. I think Ti works with understanding grammar.

[idontgiveaf]

Verbal/Linguistic Intelligence helps. That's it.

True. But can you relate that to cognitive functions

[idontgiveaf]

I know a ILE that loves Japanese and is a grammar nazi. I think Ti works with understanding grammar.

That's true.

I've learned that logic plays a part in learning languages

Proof

The human brain is divided into two hemispheres. The left hemisphere is the "logical brain" and is involved in language and analysis and the right hemisphere is the "creative brain," involved in daydreaming and imagination.

http://www.news-medical.net/health/L...man-Brain.aspx

[Olimpia]

True. But can you relate that to cognitive functions

Actually, no, I can't.

I have known linguistically intelligent SEEs and LIIs. Conflictors who have the opposite strengths and weaknesses.
That makes me think that there is no true correlation between linguistic intelligence and cognitive functions.
The cognitive functions show how someone is engaging in and expressing their linguistic intelligence, but it does not determine their linguistic intelligence level itself.

Having said that, Logical types might have an advantage when it comes to learning languages that have extremely (or more) complex grammar.

[Saoirse]

I think @unsuccessfull Alphamale's point that natural languages are not logical is important. While there are some loose grammatical structures at the base level, most languages quickly deviate from the general rules. E.g., very basic Spanish words, first-person and third-person singular: ir (to go) -> voy, va; decir (to say) digo, dice; pedir (to ask for) -> pido, pide. The general conjugation rules divide verbs into those that end in -ar vs. those that end in -ir or -er, but clearly within the -ir group, there are several different ways to conjugate them still. I'm sure English has even more BS illogical exceptions than Spanish, but I'm less aware of them since I'm a native English speaker.

I think any type can be adept at learning a new language, though they might do it in different ways.

How some types might do it:
- High-dimensional Nx types see the essence of when a certain kind of word/phrase/conjugation is used and thus can bring it into an unfamiliar but identical-in-essence situation
- Se egos can unabashedly make mistakes while conversing with natives, be corrected by them, and learn from experience what to say in every situation by brute force
- High-dimensional and valued Si and Te make a person love mastering hobbies, so if a Delta ST chooses a language as a hobby, they will enjoy exploring and conquering its detailed idiosyncrasies.

I'm not sure how Alpha SFs would do it, but I doubt they'd be bad at it if they care about it. Please chime in if you know how they'd do it.

Different types might be better at different aspects of language. I think INFx's are known for writing, so they'd be better at that, but I bet ESxp's would be amazing at speaking new languages.

Probably what's most important is how much the individual person cares about the language, their motivation for learning it. Different types might, on average, have different levels of motivation for learning a new language, which can look like different levels of ability if you forget to condition on the motivation level.

[The Reality Denialist]

I think part of the hemisphere stuff is over exaggeration. If I remember correctly elementary math is connected to linguistics but more advanced stuff is bit of right brained thingy. Following a procedure is for the left hemisphere.

[Bertrand]

I think any type can be adept at learning a new language, though they might do it in different ways.

I would take it a step further: not only do differing types learn languages differently, but they understand language in fundamentally different ways and the experience of language, how its used, what it exists to do, etc relate back to that point of divergence

now obviously there are some overarching unifying similarities as well, but they are by no means identical is my point and probably more different than people fully comprehend

in any case I think Se doms are the best at conveying their point in real time so they might be the quickest to achieve "fluency" in terms of "going to foreign country and surviving"

i think when it comes to learning multiple languages in a more academic setting that is the realm of Si, but linguistics itself is more of a Ti/Ne thing

[Zero]

That's true.


The human brain is divided into two hemispheres. The left hemisphere is the "logical brain" and is involved in language and analysis and the right hemisphere is the "creative brain," involved in daydreaming and imagination.

http://www.news-medical.net/health/L...man-Brain.aspx

but that's more like logic vs intuition
the question should be: are SLEs and ILEs equally good at learning languages, from experience the answer is no. since the SLE also won't see the potential and possibilities in the language.

[The Reality Denialist]

My mother tongue allows somewhat free word order. We take care of meaning by using different agglutinative methods. Indo-european languages in general gives me bit rigid impression. I think mother tongue has certain degree of influence in our thinking processes.

Einstein, if I remember correctly, struggled with English even though English and German are quite close to each other.

I tend to be highly connective in my thinking process. It is like follow different lines and pick things up as I go while I'm checking logical consistency of the idea.

[idontgiveaf]

Actually, no, I can't.

I have known linguistically intelligent SEEs and LIIs. Conflictors who have the opposite strengths and weaknesses.
That makes me think that there is no true correlation between linguistic intelligence and cognitive functions.
The cognitive functions show how someone is engaging in and expressing their linguistic intelligence, but it does not determine their linguistic intelligence level itself.

Having said that, Logical types might have an advantage when it comes to learning languages that have extremely (or more) complex grammar.

Ahuh.. I see
Yeah. Cognitive is like how you behave.. Not really the actual innate intelligence of the person right

[Myst]

Only comment is that in your last paragraph, I have noticed non-Ne Ti egos having issues with needing one-meaning-per-word vocabulary for second languages and so generally cannot use this strategy and have to learn more vocab as a result.

That observation doesn't apply to me in that way. I can see more than one meaning per word in English and in German just like in my native language. Otoh, I don't like to try and associate too far away in my native language either. That's probably what gets in the way with that strategy.

[Myst]

How I learn languages - I understand the grammar first in my own way by seeing the structure and then practicing it by writing sentences using the grammar while also getting some very basic vocabulary sorted. Then I can build on this by reading a lot, building up passive vocabulary and then eventually try to communicate with people to make the vocabulary active (and grammar, too). With that, I don't expect fluency for a while but eventually it all comes together. Use of both grammar structures and words will become much faster and smoother.

I noticed I learn words best by just trying to remember some approximate meaning of each new word first by looking it up in the dictionary and then if I see that word a couple more times in different contexts within the next few days (by reading a lot), its meaning (or meanings) will actually get committed to memory very well without effort. Much more natural than trying to remember the new word by the native language "equivalent" of it from some word list. It's only one more step from there to make it part of the active vocabulary by using it a few times in communication.

So in part I learn in a very traditional way (might I say boring to many people ) to speed up initial learning and in part a natural way for the rest.

[Myst]

i think when it comes to learning multiple languages in a more academic setting that is the realm of Si

Si isn't the typical academic IE/function...

[jeremiahquellette]

Hey guys, I don't agree that logic is the most important cognitive function in learning a new language. In my opinion, in some hard languages like Russian or German, logic is not working properly. They have some words and sentences that will completely blow your mind if you try to use logic to understand their syntactic constructions. The most valuable part of the learning process is the memorizing function. If you are using a good vocabulary https://www.amazon.com/German-Freque.../dp/9492637308 with a good memorizing function, you will raise your language skill more efficiently.

[Poptart]

Logical functions are useful for textbook learning and understanding the rules of the language.

Ethical functions would boost hands on learning (like venturing out in the world and striking up conversations in your new language)

Talkative extroverts might have an advantage.

[ILoveChinchillas]

I'd say intuition is important because learning a new language successfully greatly benefits from making associations.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

intuition of time, especially Ni+, which is the base function of IEI.

[Lord Pixel]

I think Ne helps to search all the possible meanings a word can have based on the different context it's used in, and can come up with many possible ways to apply the word in new contexts. Getting meaning from assumption.

[Tallmo]

Probably all functions except Si, Fi(?), and Se(?)