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    Default j-types with p-types

    The greatest potential for divisiveness lies in relationships where j-types have to depend on p-types, or vice versa, due to divergent orientation, focus and approach. Most j-types seem to prefer:

    - commitments over freedom;
    - structures over flexibility;
    - to be systematic as opposed to ad hoc;
    - destinations over journeys;
    - predictability over novelty;
    - to prevent rather than react;
    - to control rather than allow;
    - to go direct as opposed to meander;
    - to do rather than practice;
    - and edginess over chill.

    Whereas, p-types seem to prefer the reverse. Note that this doesn't necessarily imply that one totally lacks the others inferred perspective.

    One might think that these differences would serve to balance a relationship but I have found that they frequently cause death by 1000 cuts. Opinion?

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    Opinion, hm... For my purrspective that means for instance: rather dating an SEI girl/guy over an LSE. @ j-types... thou shalt not killeth mine vibe

    The modus operandi needs to fit in a relationship that's why. But as death is inevitable, might as well not care about it too much especially in short-term matches.

    Alright that's all honey, /now passes the baton to @unsuccessfull Alphamale/

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    I answer based on mainly my own experiences:

    - commitments over freedom; your freedom can be about several commitment

    - structures over flexibility; yes
    - to be systematic as opposed to ad hoc; systematic lifestyle as in present moment is very bad for me like I'm under surveillance and it denies my whole identity (see also Se+/-). I can systematic in longer time range. Maybe low Ni vs high Ni.
    - destinations over journeys; I liked to mask my journeys as they had destiny (it is not true)
    - predictability over novelty; probably, personally yes
    - to prevent rather than react; probably, personally yes
    - to control rather than allow; yes, I hate direct control over others but assertiveness is easier. See Gulenko's Se+/-. Irrationals are probably less balanced in this aspect
    - to go direct as opposed to meander; direct in ad-hoc basis?
    - to do rather than practice; I say also experiment/research
    - and edginess over chill; yes but I can look very edgy because I'm so out of place. Like I'm hurry when I'm not without realizing it.


    ESEs tend to get overly excited about my thinking when it aims for nothing concrete outcome. They think I'd produce something out of it in a fast pace. Some j-types think I have raised workload when I overcome something. I tend to keep my schedule open and do not like overly planned day.
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    So in working relationships where people depend on one another, do you think that mixing j-types with p-types would cause more divisiveness than it would add balance - say from a risk assessment point of view? I may not have given enough thought to my examples because I was mainly interested in perspectives around this type of question........

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    So in working relationships where people depend on one another, do you think that mixing j-types with p-types would cause more divisiveness than it would add balance - say from a risk assessment point of view? I may not have given enough thought to my examples because I was mainly interested in perspectives around this type of question........

    a.k.a. I/O
    I'm not certain about my type, but I'm in a relationship with an EIE right now and I can relate to some of the issues you've mentioned.
    I'm a person who sort of go with the flow and see what happens. I'm flexible and I like to adapt to the situation at hand, but he needs to make plans. Everything is settled for him and his decissions are definite, this sometimes scares me a bit. I like to have a certain level of uncertainty in my life so I can keep my options open and it allows me to expect surprises or let unexpected things happen. I like it when I don't know exactly what is going to happen, but he doesn't. Everything is according to a plan, this sometimes makes me feel restrained.
    I also like it when things are changing, otherwise I get bored, but I've gotten used to a some level of boredom in my life.

    Our approach to work is absolutely different as well. I do everything at the last possible moment, or I work based on sudden sparks of inspiration. I can't really have a systematic approach to work at all, it's simple either I'm in that mood or I'm not.
    He works a lot and he has a great discipline. He starts with projects extremely early and work at them for a long time until he's absoluetly satisfied with them.
    Sometimes when I feel frustrated with my work and I go to him asking for an advice he just tells me, that I have to work harder and I need to be more systematic, because I'm too scattered. Which is true, but he doesn't really get the fact that creating some sort of a systematic approach to anything is actually a great deal for me.
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    @Fay Do you think this perceived difference could become an insurmountable problem? I noted p-types and j-types of the same quadras, who after being assigned to the same project teams, developed significant (often disruptive) conflict even though previous to the assignments, they socialized quite well together. I wonder how this would apply to marriages, which for the most part become long term, working relationships.
    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    The greatest potential for divisiveness lies in relationships where j-types have to depend on p-types, or vice versa, due to divergent orientation, focus and approach. Most j-types seem to prefer:

    - commitments over freedom;
    - structures over flexibility;
    - to be systematic as opposed to ad hoc;
    - destinations over journeys;
    - predictability over novelty;
    - to prevent rather than react;
    - to control rather than allow;
    - to go direct as opposed to meander;

    - to do rather than practice;
    - and edginess over chill.

    Whereas, p-types seem to prefer the reverse. Note that this doesn't necessarily imply that one totally lacks the others inferred perspective.
    Bolded what I relate to where I definitely have conflicted with p types. It's worse when the p type is also Ne/Si>Ni/Se valuing in terms of not wanting to have a direction for a goal and instead wanting to have aimless options and playing with them.

    Note when I say "aimless options", it can mean one of two things: 1) lack of Rational point to the activity 2) aimlessness in terms of no focus on a concrete goal/desire. That may be the Se devaluing. It could also be lack of interest in a long term goal (the Ni side of this "coin").


    Btw. What did you mean by: "to do rather than practice"? I didn't understand that one in the list.


    Also, as for:

    - destinations over journeys;
    - predictability over novelty;
    - to prevent rather than react;

    I do almost always primarily focus on the destination over the journey, in terms of prioritizing that, but I don't recall conflicts in this area. Maybe I misinterpreted your wording in a too narrow way but also maybe because I have a certain flexibility here sometimes, as long as the destination is set, the route there can be modified a bit when it doesn't truly get in the way in any major way. I can also focus on the journey (in the physical sense now) with destination set and destination having the higher priority but while I'm getting there I'll be able to focus on the journey too as long as it does not get in the way, again. If this makes sense.

    I don't know if I can claim I prefer predictability over novelty, I don't seek novelty much on my own, but predictability either, it's just something that often just happens. I mean, the predictability happens. Novelty doesn't happen so much on my own. If someone else wants to present novelty, I don't want it to be aimless, otherwise if we have the right mood (set by NOT me, usually), I can be ok with going with it, will find stuff more fun than by default, and be a little bit more spontaneous etc.

    And, I do often just react rather than prevent, I don't have enough of a long term focus in some cases, sure in other cases I do some preventing but far from always.


    One might think that these differences would serve to balance a relationship but I have found that they frequently cause death by 1000 cuts. Opinion?
    It did cause death by 1000 cuts with IEE. With some SLIs as well, but that was less dramatic, because it was less close relations. Still pretty bad tho', lol.
    Last edited by Myst; 07-17-2017 at 01:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    .......What did you mean by: "to do rather than practice"? I didn't understand that one in the list........
    Also, as for:

    - destinations over journeys;
    - predictability over novelty;
    - to prevent rather than react;...........
    I have found that j-types will plan a task in detail but when actually doing it, they undergo a certain amount of trial and error and subsequent plan repair; while p-types don't seem to plan but like to be prepared for ever eventuality so will practice or study with no particular objective in mind other than to be personally prepared in general. J-types seem to focus on the destination and plan a trip to get there whereas p-types are more concerned with how to get there given an objective, a subtle but significant distinction. P-types don't really seem to be as insecure as j-types when seeing beyond the horizon is impossible; they usually seem to be more trusting of their abilities to react to unknown circumstances. J-types seem to prefer preplanning that will prevent unforeseen circumstances from happening so they won't have to react. Now, there are many insecure people who won't do anything one way or the other regardless of type. I see the distinction between p-types and j-types to simply be their focus on input versus output processes respectively.......
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 07-17-2017 at 02:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    So in working relationships where people depend on one another, do you think that mixing j-types with p-types would cause more divisiveness than it would add balance - say from a risk assessment point of view? I may not have given enough thought to my examples because I was mainly interested in perspectives around this type of question........

    a.k.a. I/O
    Actually I believe It Is more important in personal relations.
    At work, results matter so in unstructured situazione a j type could welcome the solutions of a p type.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Actually I believe It Is more important in personal relations.
    At work, results matter so in unstructured situazione a j type could welcome the solutions of a p type.
    I agree that there can be positive outcomes but getting to the solution can be rather stressful due to vastly differing perspectives; I've seen it get destructive in marriages and project teams.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I agree that there can be positive outcomes but getting to the solution can be rather stressful due to vastly differing perspectives; I've seen it get destructive in marriages and project teams.

    a.k.a. I/O
    I am thinking about various work experiences I've had.
    In sales, EP types seem to have a strong edge - their quick reactions to varying external situations is helpful.
    When the workload is high and the process to get something done is more or less clear, EJ types usually shine.
    IJ types come out over the long run, especially in complex projects where endurance and an analytical bent are required.
    IP types are probably those who bridge the gap between rationals and irrationals thanks to their adaptability.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I am thinking about various work experiences I've had.
    In sales, EP types seem to have a strong edge - their quick reactions to varying external situations is helpful.
    When the workload is high and the process to get something done is more or less clear, EJ types usually shine.
    IJ types come out over the long run, especially in complex projects where endurance and an analytical bent are required.
    IP types are probably those who bridge the gap between rationals and irrationals thanks to their adaptability.
    I have found that when each team member/partner can be somewhat independent of one another such as perhaps in sales, there seems to be no problem. However, when an individual's success and possible reputation or image is dependent on another's work or work habits, then I've seen things break down because people usually want confidence in the way things are being done and if there are problems, the fur will often fly.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I have found that j-types will plan a task in detail but when actually doing it, they undergo a certain amount of trial and error and subsequent plan repair; while p-types don't seem to plan but like to be prepared for ever eventuality so will practice or study with no particular objective in mind other than to be personally prepared in general. J-types seem to focus on the destination and plan a trip to get there whereas p-types are more concerned with how to get there given an objective, a subtle but significant distinction. P-types don't really seem to be as insecure as j-types when seeing beyond the horizon is impossible; they usually seem to be more trusting of their abilities to react to unknown circumstances. J-types seem to prefer preplanning that will prevent unforeseen circumstances from happening so they won't have to react. Now, there are many insecure people who won't do anything one way or the other regardless of type. I see the distinction between p-types and j-types to simply be their focus on input versus output processes respectively.......
    Hmm seems like the usual issue of putting disparate things together too much under one concept.

    So like, for me how it works is, I don't plan tasks in detail especially when I don't even have all the details on them, how could I?!

    And, I'm trusting in my ability to react to upcoming unknown circumstances.

    OK, where I'm "j" after all: I do have to have some draft of a plan of main steps at least. But that's often not detailed beyond. If very familiar with the stuff then yes, there'll be a detailed version. But I noticed that the more detailed I get with the plan, the more inflexible I become too, and then if shit gets in the way or if I just have to change the plan for some other reason, I get pissed off way too much. I get so strongly committed that's not proportional to the significance of that detail / step. Or I just get to stand there for a few seconds not able to react immediately to the change before reorienting myself. So the fully detailed approach is only really good for tasks where I can have control over everything because it's that kind of task for some reason.

    And, I actually do relate to how I have to do plan repairs, yes, more that than just being prepared in general without a particular objective in mind. That approach is truly foreign to me. Do you find that's often true for Se base types too, not just Ne?

    Otoh, I don't preplan to prevent too many unforeseen circumstances. Would require too much preparation/thinking, I can be a bit more impatient mentally and physically than that. This might tie into how I'm perfectly fine with reacting if it doesn't affect a planned step.

    All in all, hard to say if I prefer having the commitment to the (detailed!) steps of the plan or reacting in the moment to stuff. I can be fine with both... My only real "j" preference here is that I do at least have main steps of a draft of a plan. And I do prefer to go by that, I can't exist without that.


    J-types seem to focus on the destination and plan a trip to get there whereas p-types are more concerned with how to get there given an objective, a subtle but significant distinction.
    Isn't the destination the objective?

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    I mostly agree with this list, actually, although as a type 6 I see "preventing" and "reacting" as highly interwined and I like a certain level of comforting regularity and systematic-ness (in a Ti way) in my life. Responsibility is a major personal value to me and I clash with people who don't prioritize it highly.

    But... I also enjoy a bit of flexibility and adventure once in a while, and I'm definitely more of a "journey" person than a "destination" person. In a lot of ways I'm very easy-going. Just don't trip up my sense of danger.
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    @Myst Life will throw j-types into 'risky' situations where they have little to no information, and they would adapt - some better than others; they would have no alternative but to trust their abilities. I don't see planning as necessarily a roadmap but it is methodological and based on predetermined or pre-experienced (ones abilities) processes. The j-types that I've known prefer to predetermine before attempting something that may have a negative outcome whereas p-types seem to have much less reserve although they're not necessarily rash. I'm LII and have had to make many spur-of-the-moment decisions on very critical issues and I survived but I had to supress my nature to do it; often, on trivial, no-risk matters, I'll wing it like you imply that you do but I will usually be methodological in my executions in some way. Note that the only difference between destination and objective is ones perspective.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    @Myst Life will throw j-types into 'risky' situations where they have little to no information, and they would adapt - some better than others; they would have no alternative but to trust their abilities. I don't see planning as necessarily a roadmap but it is methodological and based on predetermined or pre-experienced (ones abilities) processes. The j-types that I've known prefer to predetermine before attempting something that may have a negative outcome whereas p-types seem to have much less reserve although they're not necessarily rash. I'm LII and have had to make many spur-of-the-moment decisions on very critical issues and I survived but I had to supress my nature to do it; often, on trivial, no-risk matters, I'll wing it like you imply that you do but I will usually be methodological in my executions in some way. Note that the only difference between destination and objective is ones perspective.
    Planning isn't really just about a roadmap to me, no. I don't try to predetermine negative outcomes, at least I do not have the ability to see these outcomes per se, I however do plan steps to create a route that's free of the ones I sense vaguely as possible uncertainties getting in the way. This is actually one big way for my creating logical points for the plan. Make sense?

    I sure made impulsive seeming quick decisions too and I actually like making these but they are also considered in a sense lol. I mean, I always have a conscious determination to pick that decision. This is "j" to you? It is to me, btw, though it's also got a part that's stuff attributed to Se valuing.

    I completely relate to this: "often, on trivial, no-risk matters, I'll wing it like you imply that you do but I will usually be methodological in my executions in some way". Very well put.

    OK, how do you differentiate between "destination" and "objective"? To me they still are the same thing... so let me know, not guessing from your word usage

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    @Myst If negative outcomes were anticipated, like when shooting a new set of rapids, I find that most j-types seem to want to walk the banks to survey the course while most p-types would relish the challenge of not knowing; I've seen many similar such contrasts in a work environment and on vacations. To quote dictionaries, a destination can be the purpose for which something is predetermined or intended while an objective is something that one's efforts or actions are intended to attain or accomplish. I asked two at work (in different words but essentially): "Why do you do what you do in the way that you do it?"; the LSI basically said "It's what's expected in order for me to get promoted." while the SLI said: "I have to win in order to be the best." I thought the choice in phrasing was interesting.......

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 07-20-2017 at 11:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    @Myst If negative outcomes were anticipated, like when shooting a new set of rapids, I find that most j-types seem to want to walk the banks to survey the course while most p-types would relish the challenge of not knowing; I've seen many similar such contrasts in a work environment and on vacations.
    OK, I don't think I'd particularly enjoy the idea of not knowing let alone relish it. It's not a main motivator for me. I don't know if I wanted to be that thorough either though with checking out everything beforehand. Depends how much impatience etc.


    To quote dictionaries, a destination can be the purpose for which something is predetermined or intended while an objective is something that one's efforts or actions are intended to attain or accomplish.
    Isn't the objective the purpose as concretized, tho'? I think for the process for the course to get to the destination I do have a lot of local objectives and the destination is phrased as the global objective for orienting the actions.


    I asked two at work (in different words but essentially): "Why do you do what you do in the way that you do it?"; the LSI basically said "It's what's expected in order for me to get promoted." while the SLI said: "I have to win in order to be the best." I thought the choice in phrasing was interesting.......
    Yeah, that's interesting. I like both.

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    My husband and I had a sit-down dinner at our friends' house. Husband- ESTj, wife - ISFp. (Me, ENFp, my husband, ISTp). And as we prepared to arrive, I was wondering how my ISFp friend would fare, since she would be the only non-Delta in this group? Turns out we three Delta's held the dinner table conversation (particularly the husbands), and I felt bad because I know that each Quadra has different socialization styles and I was thinking I should read up on Alpha, and try to socialize like Alpha a bit next time we get together, so she is not the odd one out. Well my friend's desire to express her own self in this Delta-land came out by her interjecting frequently, and randomly, offers and re-offers of food from the many bowls of "this and that" which she had set out on the table, which had already made the rounds, and we all had food on our plates. Sometimes she offered items more than once - even sometimes after previous "no thank you's" to the same! I felt her restlessness, as I know she was at her wit's end from recent weeks of a massive and thorough DIY home project, laboring long hours outdoors in summer heat and humidity... this was an idea of her husband, which had had to be executed the "right" way - which means perfectly, thoroughly and with every possible thrift (and with no problems dismantling several days effort if he realized they had not done something up to standard)...

    Well the funny P/J thing happened when we sat down to eat. The ESTj-host-husband was the odd one out in this P/J incident- he was the only "J" at the table. Well, I had worked to get the men indoors, especially my husband, who'd been very focused on listening to my friend's husband, who was very focused on explaining something. I wanted them to respond promptly to my friend's bid to come eat, since she asked me to get them in, and because my friend had worked hard, alone, to pull a meal together. Well, as soon as we sat, someone started passing bowls, and then someone said, "What about grace?*" and someone said, "Well, after we fill our plates", since we had already started and a decision had to be made. But there were many bowls (I have seen Alpha's do this before - set a meal table with an abundance of small bowls of many things), so this took time, and after a bit my ISFp friend asked, "What about grace?", and her husband immediately responded with, "Well, now, we said we were going to say grace after serving, and its important to be consistent." This immediately struck my funny bone and I replied, "Yes, because it would be just TERRIBLE to be inconsistent!" I was quite stirred with amusement at his statement and at the serious way he stated it, and my amused response had the unexpected benefit of my friend appearing to feel validated (as Supervisee, she is continually burdened with his corrections and suggestions about the "right way"). But, this odd statement was expressed by a "Serious" Delta guy, so, makes sense. I guess the P in me (and I think in the other "P's" at the table) thinks that this simple social occasion does not call for "consistency" ...but I suppose if you are a "J" then there is a comfort and a rightness in applying "right" standards or procedures everywhere...

    ______________
    * Pardon me for being obvious, but some might have a language barrier - - "Grace" is asking God's blessing on the food we are about to receive...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    @Fay Do you think this perceived difference could become an insurmountable problem? I noted p-types and j-types of the same quadras, who after being assigned to the same project teams, developed significant (often disruptive) conflict even though previous to the assignments, they socialized quite well together. I wonder how this would apply to marriages, which for the most part become long term, working relationships.
    a.k.a. I/O
    I think that my EIE is so far the best match I've ever found. We do have differences, but our similarities always bring us closer together. We have very similar hobbies, interests, opinions, views, sense of style... The only thing that pisses me off about him (but that is my own internal mess imo) is his ability to attract all the attention. I'm naturally shy and quiet so it takes me time to open up to others even about the things that I'm talented at. He shows everything, he's an open book and since we're good at the same things and suck at the same things I often feel left behind because people naturally notice him first. But maybe it's a chellenge for me to learn how to be more assertive...

    When it comes to work... oh well, we 're both very proud people who rarely admit any errors. So we usually just fight for our truth and our visions of how things should be done...and we fight. And then we usually decide to do it separately because none of us is actually able to admit that the other one could be right...
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  21. #21
    idontgiveaf's Avatar
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    I'm working with j-types.. Well, i can get along with them but i think they don't like me? I have to be a j-type too for them to like me..

    But i dgaf if they don't like me. Like they already kick me off their team lol. Fucking assholes.

    Not because you see me happy and chill all the time I'm not doing my work. Check my output you all hardworking salarymen.

    I have output. Check out my code
    .duhhh!! It's freaking awesome.

    I'm reading it like a nobel price winner.

    My code is good.

    Check out my test cases. Test my code.. Maintainable. Flexible. Bug free.

    Good luck finding a good programmer.

    They get two j-types fresh grad students in replacement of me.

    Damn that sucks.

    Being a p-type is really fun outside work.. But inside work especially with j-types it's not..

    I'm just trying to be happy and maintain my coolness and happiness at work.

    I'll stay until Monday.. And i think the best way to piss them those j-types, is to see you happy all the time! --- While they're fucking stressed

  22. #22
    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idontgiveaf View Post
    I'm working with j-types.. Well, i can get along with them but i think they don't like me? I have to be a j-type too for them to like me..

    But i dgaf if they don't like me. Like they already kick me off their team lol. Fucking assholes.

    Not because you see me happy and chill all the time I'm not doing my work. Check my output you all hardworking salarymen.

    I have output. Check out my code
    .duhhh!! It's freaking awesome.

    I'm reading it like a nobel price winner.

    My code is good.

    Check out my test cases. Test my code.. Maintainable. Flexible. Bug free.

    Good luck finding a good programmer.

    They get two j-types fresh grad students in replacement of me.

    Damn that sucks.

    Being a p-type is really fun outside work.. But inside work especially with j-types it's not..

    I'm just trying to be happy and maintain my coolness and happiness at work.

    I'll stay until Monday.. And i think the best way to piss them those j-types, is to see you happy all the time! --- While they're fucking stressed
    I worked with many j-types in my teaching field and I totally understand this. I simply had to get more "j" in many aspects of my job to keep everyone happy (particularly colleagues and administrations. It was fine with my students, and it fact my style was probably in some ways a haven for many of them, to have a p teacher in this world dominated by the demands of j-styles. And like you, my work performance was stellar (in my humble opinion!). But I worked in the same building with the same bunch and the way schools are run is just more j than p. So I had to bone up on j skills especially when interacting with colleagues and of course administration. However, I always did feel like a bit of an outsider, and like the effort was all on me for good relations. Sort of like being in a foreign country, and having to make all the effort to communicate and fit in. But I was in the right work for me and I did it well.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
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  23. #23
    idontgiveaf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    I worked with many j-types in my teaching field and I totally understand this. I simply had to get more "j" in many aspects of my job to keep everyone happy (particularly colleagues and administrations. It was fine with my students, and it fact my style was probably in some ways a haven for many of them, to have a p teacher in this world dominated by the demands of j-styles. And like you, my work performance was stellar (in my humble opinion!). But I worked in the same building with the same bunch and the way schools are run is just more j than p. So I had to bone up on j skills especially when interacting with colleagues and of course administration. However, I always did feel like a bit of an outsider, and like the effort was all on me for good relations. Sort of like being in a foreign country, and having to make all the effort to communicate and fit in. But I was in the right work for me and I did it well.
    Yes.. It's as if with j-types and us, we produce the same output.. But with j-types when they see you chilling or looks like you're not being pressured like them, it means you're not doing something.

    Lol. What a fucking logic.

    My boss saw my output and he starts getting nicer at me.

    The bad thing about p-types and j-types is that we always make the bad first impression with j-types because they think we're not serious with our job..

    But then, if you really like your job, don't quit! Show them your outputs. Show them you're good.

    And don't get affected with the pressure of being like them. Just stay as you are.

  24. #24
    Delilah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    The greatest potential for divisiveness lies in relationships where j-types have to depend on p-types, or vice versa, due to divergent orientation, focus and approach. Most j-types seem to prefer:

    - commitments over freedom;
    - structures over flexibility;
    - to be systematic as opposed to ad hoc;
    - destinations over journeys;
    - predictability over novelty;
    - to prevent rather than react;
    - to control rather than allow;
    - to go direct as opposed to meander;
    - to do rather than practice;
    - and edginess over chill.

    Whereas, p-types seem to prefer the reverse. Note that this doesn't necessarily imply that one totally lacks the others inferred perspective.

    One might think that these differences would serve to balance a relationship but I have found that they frequently cause death by 1000 cuts. Opinion?
    Maybe you can explain the bolded? It seems to me to relate to some other dichotomy (maybe negativist / positivist?)
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    activators are ok for relations. they are cute
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  26. #26
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    @Delilah Most j-types center their lives around arriving at certain preconceived destinations, achievements and or goals; they try to devise various strategies to get there with varying degrees of success. They can be rather intransigent - like a dog on a bone. Most p-types seem to be more opportunistic (being input driven) as they journey through life; they seem to more easily change their objectives as better opportunities present themselves.....

  27. #27
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    The greatest potential for divisiveness lies in relationships where j-types have to depend on p-types, or vice versa, due to divergent orientation, focus and approach. Most j-types seem to prefer:
    You are you talking about MBTI or socionics here? Socionics uses the terms rational/irrational instead of 'J/P' Anyways, I'm rational in socionics and P in MBTI.

    - commitments over freedom;
    Definitely prefer freedom. Too many committments easily overwhelm me.

    - structures over flexibility;
    Depends on the situation. I can't say I clearly prefer one over the other.

    - to be systematic as opposed to ad hoc;
    Generally prefer systematic but sometimes take a more ad hoc approach

    - destinations over journeys;
    Like both of them. When planning for vacation, there is a definite purpose to it, a place I want to go, but value just as much the process of the journey, seeing other things along the way to the destination.

    - predictability over novelty;
    Tough one. I'm 6w7 so there's always this inner tension between the two. Maybe novelty slightly more as long as there's some predictability within that novelty.

    - to prevent rather than react;
    Generally prefer to prevent although at times it is necessary to react to the things you weren't able to prevent.

    - to control rather than allow;
    Mostly prefer to allow, but I like to have control over somethings and disallow the things that are evil.

    - to go direct as opposed to meander;
    Usually meander, although I appreciate a more direct approach when meandering would waste too much time.

    - to do rather than practice;
    What's the difference here? By practicing it you are doing it.

    - and edginess over chill.
    Definitely prefer chill. It's the 9 in my tritype.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  28. #28
    GOLD Member Cuivienen's Avatar
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    My reflections on this:

    - commitments over freedom;

    Though I need freedom in my career, in all other areas I prefer commitment, particularly in the sexual sphere. Freedom here always obeys a law of diminishing returns, as most people are incapable of taking action if they are presented with too many options. Paradoxically, commitments often lead to more, real freedom for people in the long term.

    - structures over flexibility;

    I feel that the boundaries/limitations imposed by a structure (I usually make my own) help me focus and they give my work a form where there otherwise would have been none. Again we see the paradox; that there is a certain flexibility which grows through mastering and directing the structure to suit your own ends.

    - to be systematic as opposed to ad hoc;

    I will quite regularly just take action on a sudden vision, and want to make the most of opportunities at the time. I am aggressive and not internally very systematic.

    - destinations over journeys;

    Definitely destination focused. The result is much more important than the process.

    - predictability over novelty;

    I am not that concerned about my own security and abhor routine, so I don't agree with this. Novelty is essential for me to be stimulated.

    - to prevent rather than react;

    Yes this is in my nature also, to predict potential threats to my status and undermine them.

    - to control rather than allow;

    I truly believe that people work best when mostly left to their own devices. I hate being micromanaged.

    - to go direct as opposed to meander;

    I am extremely direct and focused. I loathe tangents, fluff and meandering more than almost anything.

    - to do rather than practice;

    Do you mean "to do rather than to research?" If so then absolutely. I place a far higher value on action than ideas, which have little value to me until they are realized.

    - and edginess over chill.

    Edginess ftw. You will have plenty of time to chill out when you're dead.

  29. #29
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    @The Exception I do refer to Socionics but not its models. I also refer to when things are important or have meaning, and not the backyard BBQ type of scenarios. LIIs are reticent about taking on commitment and dream about having freedom from commitment but seem to always be committed. I have not met any LIIs who were deep down chill or meandering by nature, and certainly would never allow anyone to interfere with their strategies or plans and really demand commitment from others thus restricting their freedom and allowances.....

    a.k.a. I/O

  30. #30
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    @Cuivienen LIEs are usually systematic in executing their impulsivity. Also, they need truth and control which cannot be obtained without a measure of predictability; they would prefer to look at the course before shooting the rapids.......

    All, one can argue with my choices of descriptors but do you think there's a fundamental divisiveness between j-types and p-types?

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 09-22-2017 at 03:30 PM.

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