Introverted Ethical Type Loosing Faith? It Happens. Pah I'm Venting

[justalitnerdxx]

I'll share my experience as of late. Currently I'm numb and think I should switch my feelings off. Then I reason that without my feelings or ability to take onboard others' problems, then I'm not 'me' anymore. Anyone relate? I figure it could be an introverted Ethical thing but I suppose any other types feel this way at times too. I'm a suspected EII...

Some context; I work as a receptionist for the Endoscopy department of a city hospital. We perform camera tests inside the oesophagus and bowels; and sometimes people are diagnosed with cancer or are here because they already have the disease and need scoped to check out the area for potential surgery and assessment of tumour growths.

My job is to check in patients and their information, and then hand them over to the nurses. Yet I can't seem to 'ok, next!' push them along. I let them talk to me about their anxiety of the test, I try to reassure them that the tests will be ok and that they'll get better. I get involved. I have been 'told off' before for letting patients talk my ear off when I should just shush them up and say a nurse will speak to them.


Well...I'm not sure I can do this anymore. My whole approach is questioned now. A family friend has had oesophageal cancer. Recovered after surgery on the tumour in his throat. Has died early hours of this morning because it had came back a few weeks back and spread. I'm heartbroken. I didn't know him well as such and was always fairly timid around him and his family. But their loss has rocked my core. Also I have lost a Great Aunt to Bowel Cancer. Same thing happened. She was better then suddenly it returned and killed her.


I feel like I've been false to all of those patients I've spoken to in my year of working at the hospital. I am not a nurse or a consultant. And despite my prayers and attempts at comfort I cannot take their pain away.


I'm not sure I can go back into work tomorrow and put on a brave face for people who have suspected cancer, or are undergoing treatment. Just last week I checked in a man who is due the same op my dad's friend had. I told him he looked well despite his complaints of chemo being gruelling, and said I had no doubt that the consultant would get the rest of the nastiness away. I lied to this man. And to myself. I like to believe everyone will be ok. But I'm wrong. So wrong.

A naive ideal of mine left over from childhood dreaming days. This belief both crushes me when it's proven wrong, when people aren't ok, yet also gives me hope to keep on keeping on. But all I can see is evidence lately that life is cruel and twisted and I have every right to be afraid anxious and sad because nightmares will come true...

[Saoirse]

Hey @FlutteringShyxx, I know it's been a while since you posted this, but I think I have a lot to say about it now, if you still feel this way. Lmk

[justalitnerdxx]

Hey @FlutteringShyxx, I know it's been a while since you posted this, but I think I have a lot to say about it now, if you still feel this way. Lmk

Oh I do still feel this way, perhaps even more so, and if you want to share then that's great

[Number 9 large]

Im glad im not as empathetic as you. Your story makes me sad. And yes life is cruel. I found that out the hard way aswel. Went through depression after I discovered that God didn't exist and didn't have a plan. He didn't have my back. It was all a lie. But it gets better with time, because the lower your expectations are, the less you get dissapointed.

Also this job might be too much for you to handle emotionally, maybe you should look for something else. No point in mentally torturing yourself like that everyday.
@FlutteringShyxx

[squark]

Does it help if instead of trying to make them feel better you just tell them that you don't know what will happen, but the tests are the best way for their doctors to find and treat the cancer to give them the best chance at a good outcome?

Then you don't have to lie to them, because the truth is you don't know. Some of them will get better. Others won't. But the tests should give them a better chance. It is sad, and I hope you were able to maybe take some time off after the family friend's death before going straight back into it.

[justalitnerdxx]

Im glad im not as empathetic as you. Your story makes me sad. And yes life is cruel. I found that out the hard way aswel. Went through depression after I discovered that God didn't exist and didn't have a plan. He didn't have my back. It was all a lie. But it gets better with time, because the lower your expectations are, the less you get dissapointed.

Also this job might be too much for you to handle emotionally, maybe you should look for something else. No point in mentally torturing yourself like that everyday.
@FlutteringShyxx

I have considered actually that this isn't the right job for me. There are positive moments with colleagues and patients but the underlying atmosphere in the office anyways is one of two faced tension; people with bad feelings towards each other yet don't air their views in an attempt to sort out the negativity and move forwards. Lots of passive aggression. Plus financially, for the work I do, I am underpaid and more or less under appreciated. See I never thought so until my dad (pretty sure he's a Beta ST) pointed out that I deserve so much more for what I give to my job. So it has been an idea of mine for a while even before this trying time occurred.

Gosh yeah, my bleeding heart! I do need to be more self protecting. With all the horrible terrorism in the world and people I know suffering with illness and passing on (another great elderly aunt last week was rushed to hospital with pneumonia, I've met her a handful of times yet was inconsolable at the prospect of her dying too)...I guess I'm finding it hard to face reality and cope. Entirely at the moment I'm drowning in sadness, and fear because I can't explain to myself why bad things happen to good people, or know if when people pass over, if they find peace or not, if they continue in existence or end, forever.

[justalitnerdxx]

Hey @squark (cool name by the way!)

No, I've had no time off. And now I just try to keep talk with patients just about mundane things like how their day has been, if they avoided the weather etc. I'm trying to take a step back as such and not try to make certain global predictions on if they're going to be ok or not. Most patients have been the usual with stomach problems like IBS but this week I have actually had to interact with ones who are having cancer treatment tests. I've just been smiley with them, ignored my overwhelming surges of apprehension and sadness for them, yet acted towards them with warmth and hope. So it's been ok I guess...right now it's in me to keep dwelling over the age old question of 'why?'

[ooo]

That's the best approach to your patients, they need someone to tell them everything will be ok, even if you know it could go bad. Hope is the best thing you can give in those moments. Saying how strong you feel for all these people just proves how great of a nurse you are. May you do what's the best for you anyway, good luck!

[justalitnerdxx]

That's the best approach to your patients, they need someone to tell them everything will be ok, even if you know it could go bad. Hope is the best thing you can give in those moments. Saying how strong you feel for all these people just proves how great of a nurse you are. May you do what's the best for you anyway, good luck!

You're too kind, though I'm not a nurse, I'm the receptionist (who perhaps takes on unrealistic responsibility and concern for the people who pass through. I do sometimes feel concerns about how some of the sterner members of the clinical team are with people, and do sometimes wonder to myself if the patients really are getting the best care!)

[Number 9 large]

Entirely at the moment I'm drowning in sadness, and fear because I can't explain to myself why bad things happen to good people, or know if when people pass over, if they find peace or not, if they continue in existence or end, forever.

I've found my peace in nihilism. This entails that there is no greater meaning to life than what you're seeing right now. People's lives aren't worth anything, they're like flies, we live, reproduce, and die. That's basically it. Anything else is optional, recreative, stuff to keep ourselves busy or stuff that makes us more attractive as sexual partners. (like our careers)

I've also found peace in the fact that after death we simply stop existing. Our consciousness lies in our brains, our brains are like machines, and like machines we stop working when defect.
This also means that you won't have to feel sorry for the people that are dead. Because they won't know they are. They're not experiencing death. Try visualizing what it was like before you were born. It's the same shit as when you're going to die. Nothingness, no consciousness. This keeps fear away from death.

It's okay to be dead. I've also never found death to be that terrifying or worrying as others, maybe that's just me. When I was still a muslim I simply thought, well they're off to the afterlife, so yea.
And now I don't really feel anything when people die. If anything I find it funny in a way that people take it so hard. I mean, it's everyday business, you all know that everybody's going to die, so why be sad about it. It's part of life. Then again I'm also doubting my ability to empatize. People call me heartless when I tell them this. That's why I usually keep my thoughts to myself and act sad whenever I go to a funeral, but in reality I don't really care. Maybe it's because I've never really bonded with anybody that has died so far in my life, so there's nothing to miss.
Maybe it's because I protect myself from bonding with people so I don't get hurt in the first place, whether through death or rejection. Or maybe it's that I know that they're okay, so there's no need to grief. Maybe grief is just people wallowing in self-pity, because they're going to miss their loved ones so badly. Or it's because they don't understand why we die, or think that when people are dead they are worse off. Which isn't true.

All I can say is you're doing no one good by worrying over dead people. If it bothers you so much I really recommend switching jobs. Life is short. Too short to be stuck in a shitty job. You'd be better off happy.

[justalitnerdxx]

@number9large

theres nothing heartless about you, you just have a different perspective on life/death, and yeah, maybe aren't as sensitive to these issues as others but not everyone is or can be. Society is made up of all sorts of people.

you do have a point about if my job makes me happy or not; I can find it frazzling when the workload gets too busy and colleagues take unplanned absences. And of course, if I'm still getting overly upset by sick patients and sharply tongues consultants and nurses (I'll avoid them like the plague if I can), then yeah, maybe life is too short to stay here

[Saoirse]

@FlutteringShyxx

This sounds like a really difficult job for an EII (your post sounds way more EII than IEI). I understand how you literally cannot help but to absorb the patients' and their relatives'/friends' emotions. It's something that our brains do automatically and can't be turned off no matter how we logically understand that it would be optimal to turn it off at will.

As @squark said, and as it sounds like you've been doing, just saying vague things like "don't worry, it will be okay," "you're in good hands with these doctors/nurses," etc., or talking about unrelated things lightly, is helpful. Maybe even sharing your related experiences would be helpful, as much as you feel comfortable with doing so. Letting patients "talk [your] ear off" is probably VERY VERY relieving for them, and you don't have to make any promises in return, just listening is relieving for them. It sounds like you are doing a great job and going above and beyond the call of duty--I think everyone who got to talk to you must have been thankful to have such a calming and approachable presence in such a difficult time.

Two other matters are how this impacts you and whether you should keep doing it.

- Should you keep doing it?
Though you are great at your job, it sounds like you are not appreciated by your coworkers/supervisors, making a difficult work environment even more difficult in an unnecessary way. It sounds like you are already considering changing your job, so I won't talk too much about that (unless you want to discuss it further).

- How it impacts you
Life is really philosophically petrifying. Your posts give me the impression that you are not religious, which adds to the existential terror. I have two suggestions.
(1) One is to read some spiritual texts. If you think you could become religious, try the texts of the relevant religion. If not, I highly recommend daoist and Buddhist texts. The Daodejing and Zhuangzi got me through hard times (though not as hard as experiencing deaths of friends/relatives). Try meditation. Spirituality is valuable even for atheists.
(2) Try to experience more of the joys in life. I don't want to sound dismissive, like "you won't care about the deaths of good people if you just grab dinner with friends!" but a huge danger for any introverted type is spending too much time in one's own world without taking in new inputs. You can't resolve the pain in your heart mixing around the same old ingredients you already have within you--you need to introduce new elements. It's awful when terrible things happen to good people, but enjoy spending time with good people while you can. Make them happy as only you can do. That's the closest thing to a point to life I can imagine.
Try to spend more time with friends. Try to do something new once in a while (one's creative function is the path to relief, so use your Ne!). Travel.

I hope you figure out what to do about your job, and how to feel about life, soon. You sound like an awesome, caring person, and you deserve to be happy! (Don't feel obligated to stay at your job just bc you make the patients feel better--you have to take care of yourself before you can take care of others in a sustainable way--if you try to take care of others first, you'll get burnt out and become unable to take care of anyone else.) Best wishes, please update us if you feel inclined to do so.

[justalitnerdxx]

@Economist

I'll admit that in the past few weeks anyway I've been desperately looking into different spiritual and religious approaches to answer my concerns. I can't yet find the one that gives me comfort or aligns completely with my values. I'm a skeptic of sorts about a personal god, but the idea of there being no guiding all power scares me. I see everything in the world being proof of some sort of divinity. I like to believe there is hope for us all and that loved ones are going to a better place. I ball at the notion that people just go, just end their existence. Then the topic of reincarnation makes me uncomfortable cause I don't like the prospect of being 'someone else' or being with other people aside from the ones I'm bonded to now. As much as I can annoy myself , I am me!

Thank you for h advice about living in the present. This week I have made a concerteated effort to focus on my blessings; savouring the food I eat, the conversations with my family, engaging in Fandoms, new music etc. Of what I have to look forward too..I'm fortunate in my own living and circumstances anyways. I just get dragged down by the confusion and suffering of others. I'm sure you know what I mean, thank you so much for your advice and input, I'm so grateful ��

[Saoirse]

@Economist

We're here for you if you ever just want to talk!

[justalitnerdxx]

We're here for you if you ever just want to talk!

Thank you! Everyone has been so kind and helpful. I like it here very much *waves a Delta Pride flag*

[applejacks]

Hey @squark (cool name by the way!)

No, I've had no time off. And now I just try to keep talk with patients just about mundane things like how their day has been, if they avoided the weather etc. I'm trying to take a step back as such and not try to make certain global predictions on if they're going to be ok or not. Most patients have been the usual with stomach problems like IBS but this week I have actually had to interact with ones who are having cancer treatment tests. I've just been smiley with them, ignored my overwhelming surges of apprehension and sadness for them, yet acted towards them with warmth and hope. So it's been ok I guess...right now it's in me to keep dwelling over the age old question of 'why?'

My heart goes out to you and your patients. People in pain and in need can make the heart weary, and I understand the toll. I'm also certain you have good intentions in your optimism and encouragement. But I can understand completely not wanting to instill false hope, or worse, deceit. Yours is a hard situation. Sometimes though, it's just nice to be greeted at a medical office by someone simply willing to listen and display compassion. Perhaps you've helped in the process along the way.

I will never forget my experience at the OBGYN last year. We miscarried our first child this time last year. A few short months afterwards, I returned to the doctor. In a moment of swelling emotion, and to my embarrassment, I began to cry when answering questions from my doctor. Seeing my tears, she drew close to me. She too, had miscarried, and she began to weep with me. There, in the privacy of her operatory, we cried together. That moment, as painful as it was, is like a precious gem in my memory. Why? Because my doctor cared for my emotional healing as much as she did my physical. And she confided her weariness to me in the daily heartaches of her profession as we wept and prayed, and she asked for me to continue to pray for her, as she would for me. I'll forever love her for that. Truly. I love that woman.

Curiously, you had mentioned that you pray. Are you a Christian?

As for the the subject of "why?" - I'm humbled daily by this. I spend much of my time in scripture reading, prayer, contemplation, and meditation over this. I do believe John Lennox said best, that though we have great heartache in this world, God has not been distant in that heartache and pain, and in fact He became a partaker in it on the cross. And in this I find the greatest comfort.

[Kim]

Your patients will hear this sort of reassurance from a lot of people and they know that the one person who knows best is their doctor. I am sure they are aware that your assessment is about what you hope, not what you know.

I had cancer and it's a very disorienting and scary experience and I appreciated when people at my doctor's office acknowledged that I was stressed and anxious and nice to get reassurance. It's really amazing how far that goes. It's really nice of you to allow people to release some of that anxiety. They know it's not your place to give them a reliable diagnosis or prognosis. I know I was just freaked out and positive human interaction helped a lot.

[justalitnerdxx]

@applejacks

Firstly, thank you so much for sharing your experience. I know it must have been tough reliving that memory. I hope you have more peace now. The doctor sounds like an angel

I was Christened as Church if England but if anything my family are agnostics, believe in being good day to day people than the mysticism of scripture. I've always 'prayed' to myself, or outside in nature, as a way to organise my thoughts and dechipher what it is that I find 'good' in, and hopefully send positive energy towards a desired outcome.

Since all of the terrorism in England, plus now with the death of a family friend and seeing sick patients day to day, I am questioning if there's a reason, if people do have 'a happy ending', or even if life does end. Now it's dawning on me that there is no rhyme or logic to bodily pains or why some people do terrible acts against innocent, or even why nature sometimes revolts I.e. Earthquakes, hurricanes. I met a man last week, 86, recovering from lung cancer. He was so chipper and positive, explaining that he had died several times and was classed as a mircacle man by the doctors. He had lost his own wife and father to the same disease years ago, though seemed content with his lot. He certainly was a ray was sunshine around the department before and after his lung camera test.

whereas a younger person, like my dad's friend, who had his wife and father still living, grown up kids and grandkids, enjoying retirement, well he was the unlucky one. My mum's aunt years ago succumbed to bowel cancer yet I've met others who have been both older and younger who have had their problems with it that seem resolved, going by the outcomes of their bowel screening tests.

i think maybe some things are pure chance. I'm not sure why or how but I suppose I must make peace that sometimes 'shit happens', but second chances and gleeful old men greatful for just living do exist too.

[justalitnerdxx]

Your patients will hear this sort of reassurance from a lot of people and they know that the one person who knows best is their doctor. I am sure they are aware that your assessment is about what you hope, not what you know.

I had cancer and it's a very disorienting and scary experience and I appreciated when people at my doctor's office acknowledged that I was stressed and anxious and nice to get reassurance. It's really amazing how far that goes. It's really nice of you to allow people to release some of that anxiety. They know it's not your place to give them a reliable diagnosis or prognosis. I know I was just freaked out and positive human interaction helped a lot.

I hope you are feeling better now. Thank you for sharing this insight of a tough time of yours. I do believe in that method, of being warming and kind to help allieviate tension. Except at work, well my manager (not sure her type) is insisting that me and my colleague (definitely a Fe dom!) just stick to 'the script' of checking in patients and getting them seated. My colleague has gotten in trouble because she chats to the patients so informally, making slightly crude baffling jokes, asking them about their perfume, clothes, etc. She is so lively and silly and definitely relaxes and amuses the patients, which is lovely. Yet my manager tells her off a lot, and me too, for trying to explain to patients how the Endoscopy works and letting them 'talk my ear off' rather than get them in the waiting area and brush them off for the 'actual qualified nurses to deal with'. So I don't think, at least in my department, that acknowledging and engaging with the stressed patients is valued :/

[wasp]

i think there's a very clear difference between spreading falsities for malicious purposes and instilling hope for benevolent purposes. i get why it may seem deceitful but realistically speaking there's little you can do for your patients beyond injecting a good dose of positivity into them. it's unfortunate that your efforts are neither sufficiently acknowledged nor appreciated by your superiors, but even just the willingness to listen is more than most people would be willing to do in your situation, so take pride in that. you're doing what you can, with what you have, where you are, and that's a beautiful thing.

this is just my long-winded way of saying that no method is foolproof but it's a hell of a lot more admirable to rise above the negativity and instill hope into them than to succumb to the negativity and just pawn them off with a swift wave of the hand and a harsh truth. "sorry but you're probably going to die" what good does it do to point out the elephant in the room? as admirable as i believe it is to sit and listen to them vent about their personal concerns, it might help to assert your boundaries a little more. it is no fault of your own that they're seeking you out for peace of mind, nor is it their fault for seeking peace of mind, but letting them know that there's only so much you can do for them might help. it's true that they may get upset or angry or hurt, but i feel like that comes with the territory of any service-oriented profession, or fighting a disease that you know you probably can't beat.

i know it's a lot to ask but please don't let yourself become jaded. keep that naive ideal from childhood alive. think of all the patients who have been able to pull through, even if the numbers are scarce, death is inevitable, at one point or another, but hope is eternal. don't forget to take care of yourself. it's going to be hard for you to pull through, too, but don't let your own needs get lost in the sea of everyone else's needs. find something outside of work to channel this negative energy into so that it doesn't build up. [insert cliche quote here about being unable to help others unless you help yourself first]

on behalf of everyone here, thank you for all the work that you do, and i hope that you're able to find a way to work through these ambivalent feelings.

[justalitnerdxx]

@paranoid

your words really brightened my day. Thank you so much. I'm not saying my job is the most important or the most unimportant, but often I feel overlooked by members of staff, my errors nitpicked and praise for doing well not expressed. So it's nice hearing that people do appreciate what I do. I've felt a little more empowered at work and able to be lighter anyways.

Though not sure all in all that I'm suited best for an office type admin job. I would maybe feel more optimistic about my own life if I was in a job that was more in line with my needs and skills. Not sure what that is yet, but I'm sure I'll find out one day

[UDP]

I feel like I've been false to all of those patients I've spoken to in my year of working at the hospital. I am not a nurse or a consultant. And despite my prayers and attempts at comfort I cannot take their pain away.

I think a lifelong challenge for anyone resembling the NF stereotype is along these lines.

I don't think it's a matter of your employment necessarily having to change - but if it's too much work and stress you can probably find other things to do; preserve your energy and capacity. That might be what you can take away from this experience. Just don't internalize it or feel like a failure.

A naive ideal of mine left over from childhood dreaming days. This belief both crushes me when it's proven wrong, when people aren't ok, yet also gives me hope to keep on keeping on. But all I can see is evidence lately that life is cruel and twisted and I have every right to be afraid anxious and sad because nightmares will come true...

I would not expect working in a hospital to be a place without unpleasantness.

So what else do you want to do?

[justalitnerdxx]

Well I'd quite like to work more in the Human Resources or patient liaison side of the hospital...it's less pressured I have heard since you're not on the front line yet you still are supporting from behind the scenes.

career wise I have no lofty goals. I know it sounds so boring and unambiguous of me...at school I just assumed I'd find my 'niche' and be an adult doing a job she loved, whatever it is. Now I am that adult I realise I have no career passion. Really what inspires me is when I am interescting with my autistic brother and his friends, when I am around small children and them smiling. I enjoy writing and dancing but I know I'm not good enough to have a career from it. I guess in the future if I meet someone and we could afford it, I would be happy to make my 'home life' my work. I'm not sure. '

[UDP]

You can always find a more conservative and traditional partner, I suppose....

That said, put yourself in a position for success either way. Your own income and your own options are the best way to secure a future you actually enjoy.

[justalitnerdxx]

You can always find a more conservative and traditional partner, I suppose....

That said, put yourself in a position for success either way. Your own income and your own options are the best way to secure a future you actually enjoy.

I think I'm bumbling through life with no direction, only a seeking of meaning and to feel inspired (probabaly another reason why I feel so hopeless about life and the world as a whole at the moment). I feel that there has to be more to life than working, looking after the body, aging, dying. The thought that there is no bigger picture and bad stuff happens cause the world is inherently flawed etc...yeah. That's what I'm really concerned about and preoccupied with. Not anything 'realistic' or simple to solve

[UDP]

Stop.

No self-flagellation, it's not useful in this aim.

[justalitnerdxx]

Stop.


No self-flagellation, it's not useful in this aim.

Apologies. I've been watching too much Davinci Code with its self harming venehment monks. Except I'm not chasing Tom Hanks down...

Just incase this gets misconstrued, I am trying to be funny and I am, in all seriousness, agreeing with you about self blaming is not really a good outcome or way to solve the problem

[justalitnerdxx]

@Cordelia

i am thankful that you do understand what I'm going through mentally, though wouldn't wish a tough time on you either :/

i like some some of the Buddhist quotes about karma and finding your own centre. Ekhart Tolle is good too for that; though do you find too that when you're listening to a calming meditation track that says 'now, be in the present' you try for 5 seconds then your mind roams off somewhere else so you have to make a hard strained effort to 'relax and be in the now...and thus you become less and less at peace and more annoyed at how boring the meditation is? It's why I prefer the actual guided story telling ones cause you make up your own imagery and explore your subconscious more rather than monotonously chant to be grounded...

[UDP]

Apologies. I've been watching too much Davinci Code with its self harming venehment monks. Except I'm not chasing Tom Hanks down...

Just incase this gets misconstrued, I am trying to be funny and I am, in all seriousness, agreeing with you about self blaming is not really a good outcome or way to solve the problem

Stop again .