Results 1 to 39 of 39

Thread: Literal Communication

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Posts
    118
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Literal Communication

    Do you think Alphas are more literal? I have never known any Alphas to be literal (especially LII and ILE). Who are the more literal types?
    Last edited by Iwantpeace; 09-03-2020 at 08:34 PM.




  2. #2
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    No. I am very serious. You have made a typo in the OP. A TIM like ILL does not exist. Please erase this. Thank you. Greetings.

  3. #3
    scio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    a box of paint
    TIM
    6w5
    Posts
    271
    Mentioned
    41 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Do you mean that Deltas are more literal?
    I would say that's an Fi vs Fe thing.
    Fe takes words less to heart in general, wants to preserve the atmosphere by keeping things light.
    Fi is listening to these words and trying to extract the effect of what you said into how it makes them feel. Words synthesize meaning for them. It works in an opposite way for an Fe user where words aren't something to be taken literally as much because we want to express as much as possible. For Fe, it is much more about the actions a person does imo because it creates Ti consistency of what the person means
    when they say x.

    Hope that is helpful/accurate
    "Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced" -James Baldwin



  4. #4
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    To answer the question now I'd expect a logical base to be literal. more than though. You know when @Director Abbie says something you can take it at face value (hehe because Abbie is great). LIE is also like that, unless a burst of enters. That way you can also differentiate between LII and LSI. LSI is more literal. LII's copious amounts of intuition can add a bit of haze to their accurate . Less "reality"~ More abstract~ I think contrasting @ApeironStella with @peteronfireee shows it really well

    TL;DR: ESTj & ISTj get my vote here to take the literalness crown

  5. #5
    Seed my wickedness The Reality Denialist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Spontaneous Human Combustion
    TIM
    EIE-C-Ni ™
    Posts
    8,235
    Mentioned
    335 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well, it is in how you perceive it.

    Alphas like clear definitions.
    Betas like clear actions.
    Gammas like clear objectives.
    Deltas like clear values.

    Some deltas are extremely sincere.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

    Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org

  6. #6
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    Well, it is in how you perceive it.

    Alphas like clear definitions.
    Betas like clear actions.
    Gammas like clear objectives.
    Deltas like clear values.
    Ohhh, super good! Add maybe clear facts to Delta, and switch Beta and Gamma. Actions = more , objectives can be that but Beta fits nicely, too. As you perceive it then

  7. #7
    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Celestial Sli
    Posts
    3,448
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    Well, it is in how you perceive it.

    Alphas like clear definitions.
    Betas like clear actions.
    Gammas like clear objectives.
    Deltas like clear values.

    Some deltas are extremely sincere.

    I like clear all of the things you said. Lack of clarity can be stressful or annoying most of the times.

    About clearness in communication, the only thing that I somehow dislike could be clear boundaries (out loud), that I experience as limitation, plasticity (lack of easiness and spontaneity) and ultimately, a trap (since my pov, obviously). According my experience, domineering ppl use a lot "boundaries" as a "mask" to disguise their dominancy. Same with excessive rules=micromanaging.

    edit: Not suggesting that one shouldn't have personal boundaries or stay loyal to owns values, but as I said, most of the times I think that boundary people (fans of boundaries out loud) disguise dominating impulses as "firm boundaries" to manipulate and coerce others more than protect themselves.
    Last edited by Hope; 07-10-2017 at 05:35 PM.

  8. #8
    Bertrand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5,896
    Mentioned
    486 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slugabed View Post
    I like clear all of the things you said. Lack of clarity can be stressful or annoying most of the times.

    About clearness in communication, the only thing that I somehow dislike could be clear boundaries (out loud), that I experience as limitation, plasticity (lack of easiness and spontaneity) and ultimately, a trap (since my pov, obviously). According my experience, domineering ppl use a lot "boundaries" as a "mask" to cover their dominancy. Same with excessive rules=micromanaging.
    I feel like clear values are nice but if you really want to ascertain values you look to someone's actions, since talk is cheap. in the same way both objectives and definitions are nice but in the end they're susceptible to word play. so its hard to lay things out in such a straightforward and categorical manner (as UAM did) because, like you said, in the perfect world all 4 are in congruence

    I guess it kind of depends on what "clear" means, it has to be something more than mere explicit verbal utterance, I guess. if they are "clear" in the metaphysical sense I would agree that "clear values" are primary

  9. #9
    Seed my wickedness The Reality Denialist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Spontaneous Human Combustion
    TIM
    EIE-C-Ni ™
    Posts
    8,235
    Mentioned
    335 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slugabed View Post
    I like clear all of the things you said. Lack of clarity can be stressful or annoying most of the times.
    I was speaking in terms of extremes.

    Alpha – are you willing to put emphasis on extreme categorization of words etc?
    Think beta extreme as some sort of army style actions. It makes everything extremely clear what you do. If you do well you'll get a reward...
    Do you want to end up in a certain position and make it a goal? Gamma way.
    You certainly seem to put a lot of emphasis what you value in life.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

    Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org

  10. #10
    AbZero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Midwestern U.S.
    TIM
    SLI
    Posts
    72
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I suppose literal communication would likely be positively correlated with sensing and logic. Maybe rationality as well. Maybe / valuers will be a bit more literal in general. Going by that I guess LSEs would be more literal with their communication in general which seems to fit.

  11. #11
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    How literal is the ESE??
    You answered it yourself in the OP, representatively:

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    I am dramatic and use of a lot of figure of speech and Fe language. I probably don't say what I mean a lot of the time.
    In relation to LSE and LSI, probably 40-50% less literal with outlining things as they are depending on how much they put into it. The subtype will be less literal than the one.

  12. #12
    Seed my wickedness The Reality Denialist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Spontaneous Human Combustion
    TIM
    EIE-C-Ni ™
    Posts
    8,235
    Mentioned
    335 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Most literal type I have seen was LSE. I was very imprecise on material use and got immediately corrected. Many STs can be like this. I once said: "There's nine...-ish". It can really raise their blood pressure.
    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

    Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org

  13. #13
    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    Celestial Sli
    Posts
    3,448
    Mentioned
    415 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    Most literal type I have seen was LSE. I was very imprecise on material use and got immediately corrected. Many STs can be like this. I once said: "There's nine...-ish". It can really raise their blood pressure.
    I was about to correct your impreciseness right now...:p

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    343
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vertu View Post
    Do you mean that Deltas are more literal?
    I would say that's an Fi vs Fe thing.
    Fe takes words less to heart in general, wants to preserve the atmosphere by keeping things light.
    Fi is listening to these words and trying to extract the effect of what you said into how it makes them feel. Words synthesize meaning for them. It works in an opposite way for an Fe user where words aren't something to be taken literally as much because we want to express as much as possible. For Fe, it is much more about the actions a person does imo because it creates Ti consistency of what the person means
    when they say x.

    Hope that is helpful/accurate

    I can second that.. One of my biggest dramas was with an IEE dude who completely didn't get what I said and when/why I said it.. like he didn't understand the implications and situation at all, took everything I say literally, so he didn't understand I said certain things about people in a moment of anger (which dramatises things) or to help someone out/ make him feel better.. he then told people what I 'said' about them -> making it sound like I really hated them/ talked badly about them.. which caused me a shit ton of stress and drama.. he seemed a bit retarded in not getting situations/implications.. I really couldn't wrap my head around how someone could (we had something like a fight) still make it sound like I said many things in such a literal way.. like I was out to get people or something. It was the weirdest thing ever to me.

    Didn't have that problem with other Deltas so far though..

    I have another IEE friend who let himself be talked over by one of these people who want you to donate money to their organisation and thus emotionally pressure you with the oh-so-poor kids and that 1 euro a day isn't a lot of money.. and that is why I was mostly focused on that this person just wants us do something (donate money to something we didn't have the money for, doing the typical thing these NGO people do, etc.), thus trying to take control over the situation and get us out of it, because I was really annoyed at the show he pulled.
    My IEE friend instead atcually worried about being a bad human being and felt horrible for not being able to donate.. I thought to myself "how can you take this so seriously?"

    But yeah Delta is basically serious about everything they do/say. And I would usually say they are rather literal yes. Betas like me might use a lot of harsh words, but they shouldn't necessarily be taken for what they are.. like it is mostly play or emotional display at a specific moment. I personally don't mean everything I say as harsh as it sounds.. though I would call myself very honest in general and so are most SLES I met. We are rather blunt and harsh.. I would describe Delta as being very sensitive towards words and how you express them. So thus they might be very cautious with the words they use.. because they don't want them to tarnslate literally.. since they take many things literally.
    Last edited by dot; 07-08-2017 at 07:53 AM.

  15. #15
    Bertrand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5,896
    Mentioned
    486 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    extroverted ethical negativism seems like a recipe for drama in general

    hell, its practically definitional

    IEEs literalism is probably subconsciously oriented towards their dual. in other words, IEEs aren't necessarily literal thinkers, but when they execute their extroverted ethical negativism (their program) it tends to take on that tone because it is directed at communication with their dual

  16. #16
    * I’m special * flames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    TV
    TIM
    Sx/Sp 2w3
    Posts
    2,810
    Mentioned
    352 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Well, I'd say gamma is probably the most literal as overall quadras go. Se + Te reality and Fi + Ni truths and getting the deeper meaning.

    When it comes to individual types, LSE and LSI don't seem like bad bets like @Chae said.

    I think sometimes LIIs are prickly with their Ti statements which can be literal but they also have trouble interpreting emotional/social situations, so they need an ESE that literally expresses and breathes emotions to help them. So there is some degree of it in Alpha and all quadras. I think Fi/Te quadras in general will be more literal than the others.
    ・゚*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:・゚

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    343
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Lessons View Post
    Well, I'd say gamma is probably the most literal as overall quadras go. Se + Te reality and Fi + Ni truths and getting the deeper meaning.

    When it comes to individual types, LSE and LSI don't seem like bad bets like @Chae said.

    I think sometimes LIIs are prickly with their Ti statements which can be literal but they also have trouble interpreting emotional/social situations, so they need an ESE that literally expresses and breathes emotions to help them. So there is some degree of it in Alpha and all quadras. I think Fi/Te quadras in general will be more literal than the others.
    Probably.. but at the same time I don't find SEEs or ILIs that harsh and they actually most of the time get what I say and how I mean it (at least most of the time.. misunderstandings happen after all).. dunno might be a Beta-Delta miscommunication.

  18. #18
    darya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    TIM
    EIE-Ni 3w4 sx
    Posts
    2,833
    Mentioned
    256 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    LSx and some LIx's are on average most literal, Beta NF's probably the least.

  19. #19
    Haikus Computer Loser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,431
    Mentioned
    96 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    To answer the question now I'd expect a logical base to be literal. more than though. You know when @Director Abbie says something you can take it at face value (hehe because Abbie is great). LIE is also like that, unless a burst of enters. That way you can also differentiate between LII and LSI. LSI is more literal. LII's copious amounts of intuition can add a bit of haze to their accurate . Less "reality"~ More abstract~ I think contrasting @ApeironStella with @peteronfireee shows it really well

    TL;DR: ESTj & ISTj get my vote here to take the literalness crown
    daawwww stahppit you're making me blush

  20. #20
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    ESI maybe
    Posts
    6,479
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    I find Deltas to be quite literal in their communication.
    They say exactly and only what they mean (except for IEE).
    I am dramatic and use of a lot of figure of speech and Fe language. I probably don't say what I mean a lot of the time.

    I have an EII friend who I was a little stern with while driving.
    I thought she was being careless about something regarding her tire and communicated that she should slow down.
    She got very upset and said "your words are stressing me out" and could not focus on driving. She couldn't handle my Fe warning without taking it so seriously.

    Do you think Alphas are more literal? I have never known any Alphas to be literal (especially LII and ILE). Who are the more literal types?
    Interesting....
    I often speak in figure of speech or say the opposite of what I mean (sarcastically/jokingly), but have noticed that sometimes people might take it literally (in which case I'd be coming across as a total b*tch). Therefore, I have been trying to tone it down, or I might say "just kidding" (just in case).
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  21. #21
    * I’m special * flames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    TV
    TIM
    Sx/Sp 2w3
    Posts
    2,810
    Mentioned
    352 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MaviTilki View Post
    Probably.. but at the same time I don't find SEEs or ILIs that harsh and they actually most of the time get what I say and how I mean it (at least most of the time.. misunderstandings happen after all).. dunno might be a Beta-Delta miscommunication.
    I think SEE and ILI are both misunderstood as harsh more then they actually are or mean to be.
    ・゚*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:・゚

  22. #22
    Bertrand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5,896
    Mentioned
    486 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    lol that surprise ending, wtf

    thats really funny

  23. #23

    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    343
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    extroverted ethical negativism seems like a recipe for drama in general

    hell, its practically definitional

    IEEs literalism is probably subconsciously oriented towards their dual. in other words, IEEs aren't necessarily literal thinkers, but when they execute their extroverted ethical negativism (their program) it tends to take on that tone because it is directed at communication with their dual
    Also it is not just extraverted ethical negativism that causes drama.. know tons of ESEs that are drama queens and other people who do not have Fe in their egos who are drama queens/caused drama.. also Deltas.. specifically IEEs. Just saying it is wrong to say that Fe is the cause for drama again, but yes betas have a tendency to stirr up emotional chaos and so on.. but my EIE roommate has probably more fun with fighting than me, I actually do not like it that much. I caused most drama because I was dumb or meant it serious that I was angry (which were my honest feelings most of the time).

    But yeah I had my worst dramas and miscommunications with IEEs so far.. like actually the dramas that hurt me the most lol.. I am cursed with the IEE-curse it seems.
    Last edited by dot; 07-08-2017 at 12:43 PM.

  24. #24
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Lessons View Post
    Well, I'd say gamma is probably the most literal as overall quadras go. Se + Te reality and Fi + Ni truths and getting the deeper meaning.

    When it comes to individual types, LSE and LSI don't seem like bad bets like @Chae said.

    I think sometimes LIIs are prickly with their Ti statements which can be literal but they also have trouble interpreting emotional/social situations, so they need an ESE that literally expresses and breathes emotions to help them. So there is some degree of it in Alpha and all quadras. I think Fi/Te quadras in general will be more literal than the others.
    Agreed with Gamma as the overall "literal" quadra, contrasted to Alpha they don't beat around the bush or embellish things like Beta. Delta is too idealistic and cozy (although still pragmatic) while Gamma deals with brutal realities. They didn't put ILI - the Critic into there for nothing.

    Maybe we can make a ranking out of this from most to least generally literal:

    Gamma
    Delta
    Beta
    Alpha

    It's only the STs and NFs within that mix things up

  25. #25
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,929
    Mentioned
    175 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I find ST-types to be the most literal and STj-types to be the most direct to the point. SF-types seem to have quite literal understandings but deliver many of their messages in rather obtuse ways.

    a.k.a. I/O

  26. #26
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    1,929
    Mentioned
    175 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    Share some examples? I know many ISFps can be very subtle, passive in delivering their annoyances
    I'm assuming that you are referring to SF obtuse ways. ISFps seem largely about self-preservation so are very careful to not annoy people who are capable of harming them or causing them to be excluded in some way. ESFjs like their immediate situations to be under control and everyone agreeable so oftentimes get trapped into trying to be all things to all people. ESFps will schmooze everyone equally just to keep all the balls in the air. ISFjs usually have a clear idea of how they want people behaving so they will try to move them there. These types of objectives are very concrete but SFs often take multidimensional, indirect approaches; however, this can lead to some incongruences which might come across as totally illogical to some (especially ST-types). Frequently, I've had to ask SF-types: "What specifically is your own position, opinion or goal?"

    a.k.a. I/O

  27. #27
    Haikus niffer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    TIM
    SLE-H 8w9 SX
    Posts
    2,808
    Mentioned
    283 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I agree with the following things that various people have mentioned:

    - Serious quadras being a bit more literal in general than merry
    - Gamma being the most literal quadra while Alpha is the least literal quadra overall in terms of raw values and interpreting/communicating reality (although, gamma can be convoluted IMO because no STs**)
    - STs being the most literal club (I think SLE is the least literal out of them at least in terms of communication in spite of having the Se leading 'realist' stereotype and perhaps interpreting reality in the most clear-cut way, no thanks to Ne role)
    - LSx being the most literal types overall
    - Beta NFs being the least literal types (**although I actually agree with @Rebelondeck when he says gamma SFs can have obtuse or non-distinct deliverance or reiteration of their understanding, and then we have Bertrand and crazed ILIs -- I suppose this is due to Ti devaluing again for if you don't seek to distinguish things then everything becomes a formless incommunicable blob, but other Ti devaluers probably wouldn't see it quite like this)
    - From all of the above, sensors being more literal than intuitives in general (wow!) (although, I also definitely agree with what others have said about delta NFs often being very direct/literal in their interpretations and trying to be very careful and effortful in their communication -- I think this must be to do with devalued Ni and low devalued Ti which would both otherwise make them want to converge into the single most logical point* being made during communication; as Ne egos it's obviously not to do with inability or lack of inclination to think non-literally)

    *I had to edit this post a million times (literally of course). What is the most actually logical is not always the most obvious. Particularly more for some than others. Obviously.
    Last edited by niffer; 07-10-2017 at 06:04 PM.

  28. #28
    Seed my wickedness The Reality Denialist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Spontaneous Human Combustion
    TIM
    EIE-C-Ni ™
    Posts
    8,235
    Mentioned
    335 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Let's see what literally means.
    literally

    [lit-er-uh-lee]
    Spell Syllables




    See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
    adverb1.in the literal or strict sense: She failed to grasp the metaphor andinterpreted the poem literally.What does the word mean literally?


    2.in a literal manner; word for word:to translate literally.


    3.actually; without exaggeration or inaccuracy:The city was literally destroyed.


    4.in effect; in substance; very nearly; virtually:I literally died when she walked out on stage in that costume.




    From here we see that 3) and 4) are not consistent.



    MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type
    Life is a joke but do you have a life?

    Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org

  29. #29
    Sir that's my emotional support gremlin ApeironStella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Exisal hangar
    TIM
    LII-Ne 5w4 594 sx/sp
    Posts
    495
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daddy Lessons View Post
    Well, I'd say gamma is probably the most literal as overall quadras go. Se + Te reality and Fi + Ni truths and getting the deeper meaning.

    When it comes to individual types, LSE and LSI don't seem like bad bets like @Chae said.

    I think sometimes LIIs are prickly with their Ti statements which can be literal but they also have trouble interpreting emotional/social situations, so they need an ESE that literally expresses and breathes emotions to help them. So there is some degree of it in Alpha and all quadras. I think Fi/Te quadras in general will be more literal than the others.
    ^ yep. In short, I will take what you say literally and try to make some sense out of it before considering a non-literal one, but also I wouldn't suggest taking almost anything I say literally because I am not certain at what point I am just kidding and at what point I am actually serious. (people always think I am being literal when I try to deliver a joke IRL and whenever I am being serious thinks I am actually kidding. How to communicate. Edit: This applies to my LSI mother too, she was talking about that just recently, how people mixed it up whenever she was just joking and whenever she was serious.)





  30. #30
    * I’m special * flames's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    TV
    TIM
    Sx/Sp 2w3
    Posts
    2,810
    Mentioned
    352 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ApeironStella View Post
    ^ yep. In short, I will take what you say literally and try to make some sense out of it before considering a non-literal one, but also I wouldn't suggest taking almost anything I say literally because I am not certain at what point I am just kidding and at what point I am actually serious. (people always think I am being literal when I try to deliver a joke IRL and whenever I am being serious thinks I am actually kidding. How to communicate. Edit: This applies to my LSI mother too, she was talking about that just recently, how people mixed it up whenever she was just joking and whenever she was serious.)
    Your dual should hopefully be there to help decipher it and show other people what you mean more clearly.
    ・゚*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:・゚

  31. #31
    Alomoes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    TIM
    LIE ENTj
    Posts
    843
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ha, I know that feeling. Having the skill and knowledge of what to say helps, along with mood. I cannot stress the importance of mood on things. Mostly because I think knowledge and skill are pretty self explanatory.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

    An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.

    http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko

  32. #32
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,806
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I find ST-types to be the most literal and STj-types to be the most direct to the point. SF-types seem to have quite literal understandings but deliver many of their messages in rather obtuse ways.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Yeah, that´s my impression too.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  33. #33
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,806
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Anyway, being literal is also a dimension related to culturally belonging to a linear-active society:



    This dimension is orthogonal wrt type and should be taken into account in multi-culti forums like 16types.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  34. #34
    Exodus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    8,475
    Mentioned
    332 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    IMO literalism is most related to Ti in the sense of being precise and exact, though it can also be Te if it means saying exactly what is accurate. I've seen it in a variety of types.

  35. #35
    Delilah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    1,497
    Mentioned
    94 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Interesting. I'd say Delta ST more literal than Beta St; in that it makes sense that the EII the OP describes would be expecting something literal. Personally I'd choose "taking someone on their word" rather than expecting 'literal' speech fwiw.

    A lot of Fe does have the effect of stressing me out and when the Fe person is in a mood it can be even scary. It happened just recently with my landlady where she threatened to terminate my contract (ESE). I took it to heart and started looking for a new place. Several people told me she's likely just threatening and won't actually do it. Turned out she was just threatening, which i did suspect but couldn't be safe in that knowledge so did call up a few places. A very stressful situation.

  36. #36
    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    my own personal bubble
    TIM
    LII-Ne
    Posts
    4,097
    Mentioned
    103 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    I find Deltas to be quite literal in their communication.
    They say exactly and only what they mean (except for IEE).
    I am dramatic and use of a lot of figure of speech and Fe language. I probably don't say what I mean a lot of the time.
    I tend to be quite literal even though I am an intuitive type. I tend to take what people say literally because after all I am literal in my communication with others. For that reason, I tend to have trouble with people who use alot of hyperbole and are overly dramatic in their speech. I tend to start pancking, thinking things are worse than they really are. Like for example, "I hate X with the passion of a thousand burning suns", I'm thinking to myself, why are showing such intense hatred towards something I'm perceiving as relatively minor? I get you dislike it, but is it necessary to show it with such intensity?

    I find that I do not like misleading other people. So I am often qualifying my statements. Even though I think alot about possibilities and the abstract, I make it clear that this is just speculation, not reality, this is just my interpretation.

    I do appreciate and enjoy figurative speech when just reading something for pleasure. I enjoy all kinds of wordplay, puns, etc. But if I have to seriously communicate with people, I far prefer a more literal approach.

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    I have an EII friend who I was a little stern with while driving.
    I thought she was being careless about something regarding her tire and communicated that she should slow down.
    She got very upset and said "your words are stressing me out" and could not focus on driving. She couldn't handle my Fe warning without taking it so seriously.

    Do you think Alphas are more literal? I have never known any Alphas to be literal (especially LII and ILE). Who are the more literal types?
    I would be just like your EII friend. I cannot stand sternness in peoples' speech. I need everything to be calm. I know that's not always possible though, sometimes you have to be stern to avoid a car accident from happening. I know when I was learning to drive it was hell, I couldn't tolerate being yelled at for my mistakes although it was probably necessary at times to avoid accidents.

    I think LII and ILE can be quite literal when it comes to stating their conceptual ideas precisely, but they also do alot of wordplay for fun. LII is probably more literal than ILE due to the leading Ti which seeks more precision.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaviTilki View Post
    I can second that.. One of my biggest dramas was with an IEE dude who completely didn't get what I said and when/why I said it.. like he didn't understand the implications and situation at all, took everything I say literally, so he didn't understand I said certain things about people in a moment of anger (which dramatises things) or to help someone out/ make him feel better.. he then told people what I 'said' about them -> making it sound like I really hated them/ talked badly about them.. which caused me a shit ton of stress and drama.. he seemed a bit retarded in not getting situations/implications.. I really couldn't wrap my head around how someone could (we had something like a fight) still make it sound like I said many things in such a literal way.. like I was out to get people or something. It was the weirdest thing ever to me.

    Didn't have that problem with other Deltas so far though..

    I have another IEE friend who let himself be talked over by one of these people who want you to donate money to their organisation and thus emotionally pressure you with the oh-so-poor kids and that 1 euro a day isn't a lot of money.. and that is why I was mostly focused on that this person just wants us do something (donate money to something we didn't have the money for, doing the typical thing these NGO people do, etc.), thus trying to take control over the situation and get us out of it, because I was really annoyed at the show he pulled.
    My IEE friend instead atcually worried about being a bad human being and felt horrible for not being able to donate.. I thought to myself "how can you take this so seriously?"

    But yeah Delta is basically serious about everything they do/say. And I would usually say they are rather literal yes. Betas like me might use a lot of harsh words, but they shouldn't necessarily be taken for what they are.. like it is mostly play or emotional display at a specific moment. I personally don't mean everything I say as harsh as it sounds.. though I would call myself very honest in general and so are most SLES I met. We are rather blunt and harsh.. I would describe Delta as being very sensitive towards words and how you express them. So thus they might be very cautious with the words they use.. because they don't want them to tarnslate literally.. since they take many things literally.
    I am like the IEE here in your example. I tend to take other peoples' harsh and blunt statements to heart, assuming they mean it exactly as its said. I've always been hypersensitive to words and how they are expressed and I choose my words very carefully assuming others are like me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    Interesting. I'd say Delta ST more literal than Beta St; in that it makes sense that the EII the OP describes would be expecting something literal. Personally I'd choose "taking someone on their word" rather than expecting 'literal' speech fwiw.

    A lot of Fe does have the effect of stressing me out and when the Fe person is in a mood it can be even scary. It happened just recently with my landlady where she threatened to terminate my contract (ESE). I took it to heart and started looking for a new place. Several people told me she's likely just threatening and won't actually do it. Turned out she was just threatening, which i did suspect but couldn't be safe in that knowledge so did call up a few places. A very stressful situation.
    Yes! Peoples' bad moods can be very scary for me. I take threatening speech seriously, and I would likely be looking for a new place too if I was in that situation. It also doesn't help that I have Se PoLR, I don't always accurately assess what's truly threatening and what isn't.
    LII-Ne with strong EII tendencies, 6w7-9w1-3w4 so/sp/sx, INxP



  37. #37
    Bertrand's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    5,896
    Mentioned
    486 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    literal /= exaggeration

    ESEs are literal and exaggerate, deltas tend toward figurative without exaggerations. of course everyone exagerates to some extent because no one is perfectly accurate, and everyone uses figurative language because sometimes its the only language available fit for the task, however in general the quadra diverge in either direction

  38. #38
    Exodus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    8,475
    Mentioned
    332 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    Do you see it in ESEs?
    No lol.

    I am finding it more in LSIs....
    That would make sense.

  39. #39
    Melodies from Mars~
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    1,016
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's entirely a thing of my anxiety really.

    Without anxiety I'm pretty aggressively open about anything and sometimes have trouble not hurting people, mostly because I'm not used to living without a feeling of discomfort when I need to say something undesirable.

    Must be some unhealthy intuition+feeling stuff: overthinking overpredicting overfeeling... when all that's turned off I don't think I have the Fi to prevent me from saying something out of line.


    Physical expression emotions create sympathy and I treat them delicately, I can't offend anyone who shows these so I'm more likely to be indirect.

    I can easily offend someone however who creates physical discomfort in me. Whether it's undesirable emotions or opinions or whatever. I'm much more direct about my feelings here.


    And this isn't related but I need to say it :My one fatal flaw is that anyone can calm me purely through comfort, I could be extremely mad at someone and then they put their hand on my shoulder or something and then I suddenly lose 50 pounds and I become a helpless teddy bear. xD So I guess I'm highly suggestive with emotions, as in anyone can manipulate me if they tried. I need 1/1000th of a reason to not be mad and then I'll smile and keep going, but usually when I'm pissed I try to find more reasons to be pissed until someone actually tries to calm me and then nothing even matters anymore I give in.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •