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Thread: Inability to work

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    Default Inability to work

    I'm a very ambitious person and with all the modesty, I'm quite talented when it comes to creative work. I really want to have a successful career and to fulfill my goals, but I lack any sort of work discipline.
    I can get excited for new ideas and projects easily, but I never really work on them. I like to share my ideas with others, but when it comes to an actual thing I completely fail. Even when I finally decide to start to actually do someting and not only dream about it, I get tired very easily and I just drop it.
    I've been told by many people that I have good and interesting ideas and that I should make them real, but I totally lack the ability to motivate myself. Sometimes I even feel like it's worthless even before I start because I know I'd leave it unfinished anyway.


    The only time, when I'm actually able to work is when I have a highly motivated person next to me and he gets all the work done with me, or at least keeps me company and makes sure that I actually work and don't slack. But as soon as I'm left all to my own devices I don't do anything at all... Literaly nothing... And I want to do things, I just don' t know how...Help!

    Is this a delta NF thing? How can you actually make yourself work? How can you motivate yourself? Or how can you even find that special someone, who is able to take care of you like a little child when you try to work?
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    I would say search your history of motivation and try to find something there you can put to work in a situation. Monitor yourself while attempting to use that motivation and see if it gives you any clues. This is something that I struggle with, too. Honestly, it seems like it comes down to the right roll of the psychological dice. Ultimately, for creative work, increasing my expectation and curiosity helps. Challenging myself, as in, "I can think of completing this easily, but can I really do it?" helps (often you find that you are assuming perfect action or static mindset when in reality half of the challenge is you). Also, at work, the tribal effect kicks in and simply being around others and doing things nominally in their benefit really fixes the motivation.
    salmon

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    Believe it or not, I sometimes have this problem. After working a lot during the week, I'll sometimes come home and do nothing for two solid days, even though I had planned on getting a lot of things done. I mean, I can visit friends and buy groceries and do laundry and go to the library and go out for meals and maintenance stuff like that, but I won't work on the projects that I had planned.

    The weird thing is, If my SLI son comes over to visit (he and his mother live a mile away), I get motivated and he and I can get a lot done when we work together. He is my Supervisor, incidentally.

    If you can find someone to motivate you, I suggest you find out what it is about them that gets you motivated, and keep a person with those characteristics around.

    If you want to know how I make myself work (when the work itself is not interesting), it is by thinking about how I promised to do something, and how I'll explain to the promisee that I didn't do it.

    This doesn't always work.

    Alternately, you can imagine how great you will feel when you get that next project done and can show your friends the results.

    But these methods are specific to me, and may not work for you. I've read a few books on how to get stuff done, and two general methods stand out.

    The first method is to just do a little bit of the job at once. If you have a daunting eight-hour task that you really don't want to do, just work on it for one hour. Maybe just for fifteen minutes. You will find that once you get started, continuing is easier. And if it isn't, you can always quit after your allotted time is up.

    The second method involves distracting yourself. If you have task A to do, and you don't want to do it, just take on the much larger and much less pleasant task B. You will find that as you try to get yourself to do task B, you will do task A as a way of not having to do task B. Doing task A is a way to procrastinate on doing task B.
    Then, in order to do task B, just take on the very much more onerous Task C, and procrastinate by doing task B.
    It works for me.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-06-2017 at 02:07 AM.

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    I've heard this sort of questioning from quite a number of INFp and ENFp, who seemed to have held unrealistic goals for themselves; however, I've supervised countless unmotivated people of all types; most just didn't admit it. I think most people are in jobs that don't suit their psyche so they fake contentment or lie about it to themselves, which is perhaps an ill of the modern world. You have to find what really turns your crank, which takes a lot of personal soul searching; commitment then follows naturally.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Last edited by Rebelondeck; 07-06-2017 at 12:00 PM.

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    in every job i've had i've compensated for it with heavy meth use for drive + weed to zone into whatever i'm doing, would not recommend meth addiction as a solution though
    Last edited by bgdjf; 07-06-2017 at 02:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I've heard this sort of questioning from quite a number of INFp and ENFp, who seemed to have held unrealistic goals for themselves; however, I've supervised countless unmotivated people of all types; most just didn't admit it. I think most people are in jobs that don't suit their psyche so they fake contentment or lie about it to themselves, which is perhaps an ill of the modern world. You have to find what really turns your crank, which takes a lot of personal soul searching; commitment then follows naturally.

    a.k.a. I/O
    That's why they get paid for what they call work.

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    Answer: Take responsibility

    Waiting for motivation is a problem. One can work without motivation. One simply does it. Ego strengthening is needed. When you strengthen the Ego you find yourself as a single human being.

    I try to admit that I am lazy and I see the lazyness as a sub-personality that I can relate and communicate with. So instead of trying to flee from the lazyness I admit that its there and I decide to take responsibility for it. So "we" do things "together". Like working with a friend who slows you down.

    This way I don't fall into the trap of "waiting for motivation" and I don't have to dissociate from the laziness too much either. It's there, and I am ok with it. It needs guidance and firmness.

    Important: It is I who decide things, not my lazy subpersonality.

    If you flee too much from your lazyness its gonna hit back on you. Don't make it your enemy.

    This is something I recently found out, and I am applying it in my life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    That's why they get paid for what they call work.
    I agree and most people have no options; the greatest motivator is the potential for starvation. People who talk about personal motivation often are the elite who have the luxury to choose a career. However, I've known many who had that luxury but chose wrong because of unrealistic expectations or myopia. I've also known quite a few well educated elite who were misemployed to the point that it became detrimental to their health; they passed the test but weren't suited/motivated to do the job. A lot of people aren't realistic about themselves or their capabilities having been told for so long as children that they're god's gift to humanity......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    Is this a delta NF thing?
    No, everyone can suffer from not having a worthy goal in life that's worth working hard for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    How can you actually make yourself work? How can you motivate yourself?
    ]
    By knowing it is the right thing to do in the long run. You need to have a vision. You need a goal that you set on. A dream. And you need to know that what you're doing everyday is worth the ''pain'' so to speak, in order to achieve it.

    It's not about motivation. It's about doing it. Make it a habit. Motivation is easy, but always fades away after the ''new exciting idea'' becomes routine.
    That's normal, but if you really know what you want, then you would continue doing it, even if you don't feel like it in the moment.
    Don't let your mood dictate your actions.
    It's the same for when I wanna work out, for example.
    I've been doing it consistently for over 2 years now.
    And trust me, there were times when I felt like not going, or quitting all together.
    But then you remind yourself of the advantages, and you just go anyways.
    Even if you feel like shit, tired, whatever excuse you have at the time.
    And once you're doing it, you already start to feel better about yourself, energized.
    Sometimes changing your mood means changing what you're doing right now, even though your mood says ''I'm lazy, unmotivated'', just fucking do it anyways, because tomorrow you'll regret not getting the shit done that you promised yourself to do yesterday.

    I think your problem lies with not having a goal worth chasing.
    You need to do some soulsearching to really find your niche in life.
    And you may have to search in areas where you'd never expect yourself to become so passionate about, or that are considered ''stupid'' by other people. All that matters is that you see yourself becoming what you are seeing in your dreams. And if you can hold on to that dream, you will everyday remind yourself of what you can become, and this will energize you into doing the thing you have to do everyday in order to fullfill it.
    (For me, for example, it's working out consistently, in order to become as beautiful as I want, because when I see ripped guys this is what I want to look like in the future, and this is what keeps me motivated, the ending goal. Do I like working out 2-4 times for the sake of working out? No, but I like the end result and that's why I do it.)

    Getting excited for new ideas is easy. The discipline that follows afterwards is what's hard. This is why you need to find something that energizes you, that you feel passionate over, and the motivation will stay with you, and will convert into discipline.

    Sometimes your passion is closer to yourself than you'd think.

    For example, you say you're creative.
    Maybe it's musical, artistic, or whatever. Maybe you've imagined yourself playing in a rock band. Or in an orchestra. Maybe you've thought of yourself as a second picasso, or something.
    Try bringing to reality a fantasy that you've maybe only been fantasizing about in what you thought were unrealistic, overly hopeful and risky dreams.
    Because it is the dreams that you tell yourself are unrealistic that are worth chasing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    Or how can you even find that special someone, who is able to take care of you like a little child when you try to work?
    This will never happen. No one wants to take care of someone elses business because they're too unmotivated to do it themselves.
    Not even your logical sensing dual. So set that out of your mind. These are your goals, nobody will fullfill them but you. Because everyone else has their own life already.

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    Hello! I saw some overlap in recommendations for you from this post: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...egos-Delta-NFs

    As a Delta NF, I get super frustrated with myself on my significant lack of follow through in many areas / projects. Like you, ideas are a dime a dozen. I was fortunate to have an ENTj dad to learn from and encourage me to push to the end of things. Doesn't make it any easier though.

    I've found the more I can link my follow through to someone else for my accountability, the better I do. When it comes to my job- teaching music - I relate my work to my students and clients. When it comes to household chores, I link the necessity of follow through to my SLI husband, and try to remember that I'm cleaning for him. All of this equally holds true as I aim to do all things for Christ Jesus- whether it's mowing my lawn or being honest in my taxes and such, and that's a tremendous motivator for me.

    Im better motivated to work when I'm doing it for someone.

    Hope you can can find a similar strategy! I also found contract work to be extremely rewarding for awhile, since it capitalized on my initial excitement, forced me to finish the contract within 6 months - year, and then allowed me to get excited again for something new and different afterwards. This I think is more IEE specific, but perhaps this type of work would help.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    Hey. I won't be very "I know what you need" or "I will give you lessons", I started to work at 27 which is considered very late.

    What makes me "move" or motivated :
    -changing pace (I hate routine)
    -interesting tasks (I have to love what I do)
    -nice atmosphere/people (very important)
    -recognition (I like to be appreciated)
    -salary (part of that recognition)

    That said I'd like to not work at all lol.
    Good luck!

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    Fay wich type are you ? Ive the same problem in very structured environnements...

    In my prospect I found a job (I'm at 50% in the recruitment process) when I will learn a computerscience language from scratch, so I hope the discipline needed will come at the same time of learning. I wan't to avoid environnement where I need to be 100% technically operationnal and at the same time 100% disciplined. That's simply not possible for me at this time. Perhaps Ill be able to change thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I've heard this sort of questioning from quite a number of INFp and ENFp, who seemed to have held unrealistic goals for themselves; however, I've supervised countless unmotivated people of all types; most just didn't admit it. I think most people are in jobs that don't suit their psyche so they fake contentment or lie about it to themselves, which is perhaps an ill of the modern world. You have to find what really turns your crank, which takes a lot of personal soul searching; commitment then follows naturally.

    a.k.a. I/O
    I still study, I don't really need to work, but there are many plans and goals I have made for myself and I'd like to work towards them even when I don't have to. I want to finish many of my own personal projects before finishing the uni and I know I'm running out of time, but I have no working discipline. Meaning that I'm quite relaxed in my nature, I wake up at the noon and I hate to be in a hurry. So it takes me about 2-3 hours to drink my coffee, eat something and get ready for the day...I know it's a terrible time managment issue. Then even when I know there are things I should get done, I end up doing whatever feels right at the given moment and I don't care about my previous plans even when I should. I've tried to make scheduals and daily plans, but I usually fail to adhare to them, unless there's someone who watches me and tells me what to do. I need a deadline or something that pushes me to do things, without it, I'm totally lost and even the deadlines I have are sometimes not enough to force to be active. It's not that I'd dislike what I do, I like it, it's just that I need tons of stress and pushing to actually activate me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noaydi View Post
    Fay wich type are you ? Ive the same problem in very structured environnements...

    In my prospect I found a job (I'm at 50% in the recruitment process) when I will learn a computerscience language from scratch, so I hope the discipline needed will come at the same time of learning. I wan't to avoid environnement where I need to be 100% technically operationnal and at the same time 100% disciplined. That's simply not possible for me at this time. Perhaps Ill be able to change thought.
    I consider myself an EII.
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    Pressure to not be perceived as a lazy bum is a huge motivator for myself. I've been told that "someone has to light a fire under your feet" or "you have skill, but no drive". These perceptions bother me and is enough to motivate. A strong, get'er done persona help me get excited in an Eye of the Tiger kind of way.

    Some people expect things to be done at a much higher frequency, but balance is key. As long as I remain rather independent and get what needs to be done, done, all is flowing along nicely.

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    Young people usually learn discipline in the workplace. There is a boss who expects things and a group spirit that pushes things forward. In such an environment its much easier to be productive, to be on time etc. So you get yourself a job and it will help develop Ego and discipline. Later when the Ego is strong enough you can work alone and you will have discipline for your own projects.

    So the key is to use a normal job as a catalyst for Ego development.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    I still study, I don't really need to work, but there are many plans and goals I have made for myself and I'd like to work towards them even when I don't have to. I want to finish many of my own personal projects before finishing the uni and I know I'm running out of time, but I have no working discipline. Meaning that I'm quite relaxed in my nature, I wake up at the noon and I hate to be in a hurry. So it takes me about 2-3 hours to drink my coffee, eat something and get ready for the day...I know it's a terrible time managment issue. Then even when I know there are things I should get done, I end up doing whatever feels right at the given moment and I don't care about my previous plans even when I should. I've tried to make scheduals and daily plans, but I usually fail to adhare to them, unless there's someone who watches me and tells me what to do. I need a deadline or something that pushes me to do things, without it, I'm totally lost and even the deadlines I have are sometimes not enough to force to be active. It's not that I'd dislike what I do, I like it, it's just that I need tons of stress and pushing to actually activate me.
    It doesn't sound like a time management issue. You know how to make schedules and plans, you've tried doing so but it didn't work as you weren't able to adhere to them. Could it be that you're fatigued? I find that fatigue causes me to be slowed down, take longer to do things and get moving, and have difficulty being productive.

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    relevant vid I happened upon today
    salmon

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    relevant vid I happened upon today
    ESE dude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    I still study, I don't really need to work, but there are many plans and goals I have made for myself and I'd like to work towards them even when I don't have to. I want to finish many of my own personal projects before finishing the uni and I know I'm running out of time, but I have no working discipline. Meaning that I'm quite relaxed in my nature, I wake up at the noon and I hate to be in a hurry. So it takes me about 2-3 hours to drink my coffee, eat something and get ready for the day...I know it's a terrible time managment issue. Then even when I know there are things I should get done, I end up doing whatever feels right at the given moment and I don't care about my previous plans even when I should. I've tried to make scheduals and daily plans, but I usually fail to adhare to them, unless there's someone who watches me and tells me what to do. I need a deadline or something that pushes me to do things, without it, I'm totally lost and even the deadlines I have are sometimes not enough to force to be active. It's not that I'd dislike what I do, I like it, it's just that I need tons of stress and pushing to actually activate me.
    I once had an ENTp boss that could fit your description; getting him to do something was like pushing on the end of a rope, and he changed his direction every time he talked to someone new. We used to say that he was like a grazing gazelle that only exerted itself when attacked by a carnivore. I only had three employees like what you describe: one was extremely bright and never ever had to really exert himself to succeed; one said he was diagnosed with low testosterone levels; and one had become a drug addict. If you can succeed by doing what your (not?) doing then why change - just be sure to be prepare yourself for carnivores.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    I'm pulling quotes from pages 99-129 of this Handbook of Self-Regulation (2004). For this chapter, one of the authors is Walter Mischel of the famous Marshmallow Test. The chapter is a long read, but imo worthwhile because of how dense it is (after the first few pages which I didn't really get). It collects together the conclusions of his investigations of how to induce delay of gratification in order to pursue in a persistent way something that you know you want but that you might lack the self-control to actually achieve.


    The preschool delay of gratification test

    In this procedure, young children wait for two cookies (or other little treats) that they want and have chosen to get and which they prefer to a smaller treat, such as one cookie. They then are faced with a dilemma: they are told that the experimenter needs to leave for a while and that they can continue to wait for the larger reward until the experimenter comes back on his/her own, or they are free to ring a little bell to summon the adult at any time and immediately get the smaller treat at the expense of getting the larger preferred reward. In short, the situation creates a strong conflict between the temptation to stop the delay and take the immediately available smaller reward or to continue waiting for their original, larger, more preferred choice, albeit not knowing how long the wait will be. After children understand the situation, they are left alone in the room until they signal the experimenter. The child of course has a continuous free choice, and can resolve the conflict about whether or not to stop waiting at any time by ringing the bell, which immediately brings back the adult. If the child continues to wait, the adult returns spontaneously (after a maximum of 20 minutes). To illustrate, the number of seconds children can wait in certain diagnostic situations (i.e., when no regulatory strategies are provided by the experimenter and children have to access their own competencies) is significantly predictive of higher Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT) scores and better social-cognitive, personal, and interpersonal competencies years later.


    Presence of the rewards
    In 1969, they found that when the rewards (cookies and pretzels) were left on the child's table, the child became more impulsive and were less able to delay gratification. When the rewards were absent, children were able to delay gratification for longer. The guess was that thinking about a far off reward induces frustration and so encourages short term relief even if the relief is to the detriment of what you wanted more in the first place.


    Cooling off a person's perception of the reward
    They began to experiment with whether a person's own mental willpower was able to control their own impulsiveness.

    If the actual rewards could be construed in such a way that they psychologically become cool, for example by thinking of them as pictures rather than real, it should help the child to reduce the frustration of the delay situation cognitively rather than being at the mercy of external situational cues.

    Children were faced with actual rewards but this time were cued in advance by the experimenters to pretend that they were pictures by essentially "putting a frame around them in your head". In a second condition, the children were shown pictures of the rewards but this time asked to imagine as though they were real. Children were able to delay almost 18 minutes when they pretended that the rewards facing them were not real, but pictures. In contrast, they were able to wait for less than 6 minutes if they pretended that the real rewards, rather than the pictures, were in front of them. Theoretically, in the former group, the children were able to exert willpower by mentally activating cool nodes that corresponded to the hot stimulus in front of them (i.e., by cognitively trasnforming a real treat into "just a picture"). In post-tests that asked about why they waited so long, as one child put it, "you can't eat a picture."

    Children who were waiting for marshmallows were told to think of them as "white, puffy clouds." Those waiting for pretzels were told to think of them as "little, brown logs." In a second hot ideation condition, the instructions cued children to think about the marshmallows as "yummy, and chewy" and the pretzels as "salty and crunchy." As expected, when children thought about the rewards in hot terms, they were able to wait only for 5 minutes, whereas when they thought about them in cool terms, delay time increased to 13 minutes.

    Comparative effects of the reward stimulus and its cognitive representation in voluntary delay
    Effects of attention to symbolically presented rewards on self-control
    Strategic attention deployment for delay of gratification in working and waiting situations

    Flexible utilization of both hot motivation and cool rationality
    A focus on hot features may momentarily increase motivation, but unless it is rapidly cooled by a focus on their cool, informative features (e.g., as reminders of what will be obtained later if the contingency is fulfilled) it is likely to become excessively arousing and trigger the "go" response.

    Delay ability was facilitated most when attention intermittently shifted to the rewards, as if the children tried to enhance their motivation to remain by reminding themselves about the rewards, but then quickly shifted away to prevent arousal from becoming excessive. Such flexibility in attention deployment is consistent with the view that it is the balanced interactions between the hot and cool systems that sustain delay of gratification and effortful control, as they exert their motivating and cooling effects in tandem.

    The important point is that diverse, creative cooling strategies can be constructed by the cool system, if it can be accessed before automatic impulsive action is triggered by the hot system that preempts the person from thinking rationally and creatively. In formal terms, goal pursuit in delay of gratification depends both on the activation of motivational processes as discussed earlier in this chapter, and on the accessibility and activation of the necessary cooling strategies. It depends on the network of organization connecting the motivational processes that lead to choice and goal commitment, to the activation and generation of cooling strategies. When these strategies are accessed they serve to reduce the hot stimulus pull and the frustration aroused in the situation, so that hopeful wishing can be transformed into effective willing.


    Building self-control into an automized habit, via planning and rehearsal
    In order for these adaptive control efforts in the hot system/cool system interactions to be maintained over time and accessed rapidly when they are urgently needed, they have to be converted from conscious, slow, and effortful to automatic activation, in this sense taking the effort out of "effortful self control". Individuals can avoid succumbing to stimulus control by planning out and rehearsing their "implementation intentions" for difficult goal pursuit. Specify in detail the various steps needed to protect the person from the obstacles, frustrations, and temptations likely to be encountered, keeping in mind and in awareness the demands of the current goal that is being pursued.

    When planned and rehearsed, implementation intentions help self-control because goal-directed action is initiated relatively automatically when the relevant trigger cues become situationally salient.

    Gollwitzer's work indicates that some effortful, deliberative process of linking action plans to specific situational triggers (the "ifs") is needed in the initial phases of automatization. But after this link has been established and rehearsed, effective self-regulatory behavior and cool system strategies can be activated and generated much more readily, even under stressful or cognitively busy situations, without conscious effort. That is, if the specified situational cue remains highly activated, the planned behavior will run off automatically when the actual cue is encountered.


    Staying cool and adaptive performance in wide-reaching domains. Emotional regulation.
    In a typical study to probe the underlying processes in emotion regulation, Gross (1998) brings participants into the laboratory and informs them that they will be watching a movie. The film they will see shows detailed close up views of severe burn victims or of an arm amputation. Participants then are divided into different groups and given different instructions prior to viewing the film. For example, in one condition (called “cognitive reappraisal”), they are asked to use a cooling strategy, and to try to think about the movie in a detached unemotional way, objectively, focusing attention on the technical details of the event, not feeling anything personally (e.g., pretend that you’re a teacher in medical school).

    Cooling enabled adaptive regulation of negative emotions better than either a control condition (in which participants are simply asked to watch the movie), or a suppression condition in which they were asked to try to hide their emotional reactions to the film as they watched it so that anyone seeing them would not know that they were feeling anything at all. The cooling strategy by means of cognitive reappraisal was a much more adaptive way to regulate negative emotions, as seen in measures of the intensity of people’s negative experiences as well as in their levels of physiological autonomic nervous system arousal and distress. Thus individuals who are cued to think about the movie in a way that cools the emotional content experienced fewer feelings of disgust and less physiological activation (evidenced by less blood vessel constriction) when compared to those who attempted to completely hide and suppress their emotional responses to the film faces.

    The cooling attention control processes that underlie delay ability also help in the regulation of defensive reactions in interpersonal contexts.

    Rejection sensitivity is a chronic processing disposition characterized by anxious expectations of rejection (Downey & Feldman, 1996) and a readiness to encode even ambiguous events in interpersonal situations (e.g., partner momentarily seems inattentive) as indicators of rejection that rapidly trigger automatic hot reactions (e.g., hostility–anger, withdrawal–depression, self-silencing). In such a state, the person’s defensive, fight-or-flight system is activated, and attention narrows on detection of threat-related cues, which in turn makes the high RS person ready to perceive the threatening outcome—and to engage in behaviors (e.g., anger, hostility, exit threats) likely to ultimately confirm their worst fears by wrecking the relationship.

    Emotional self-cooling would help here, too.


    Books
    It turns out there are whole books on this topic.

    Handbook of Self-Regulation: Research, Theory, and Applications
    Psychology of Self-Regulation: Cognitive, Affective, and Motivational Processes
    Last edited by esq; 07-12-2017 at 12:27 PM.

  23. #23
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    What a misleading title.

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    In my experience some EIIs find the idea of working for money or out of financial need boring, or even insulting. I think this is part of Se polr.
    Where as the majority of LIIs understand they must work to pay bills and support themselves even if they don't like their job I find EIIs will only be able to do work that is inline with their values 100% (Fi leading).
    The work must make them happy and they don't deal well with highly stressful environments.


    They tend to get bored easily in the workplace if not challenged, and they don't like power structures or not feeling valued.
    Truthfully even in a job you like there are going to be very difficult days. EIIs take these days to heart and get disillusioned more easily.
    I have seen a lot of disappointed EIIs in the workforce more than any other type. They might idealize a job initially and then become frustrated by it because they are not motivated by the financial rewards- money is not why most EIIs really want to work. Most EIIs want to recognized for their unique and special gifts-that takes years of dedication and skill and is not achieved right away and even then not everyone who deserves it gets the recognition because part of that is work place politics. EIIs tend to despise politics more than anything!

    The job must be interesting, fit in line with their values, be harmonious, and not place Se stress and politics on them. That is a tough job to find- so they move on.

    Some of the most "successful" people I have ever met in terms of realizing goals are Se users. Especially mobilizing Se.
    Last edited by sorrows; 07-12-2017 at 10:38 PM.
    “Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.”



  25. #25
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    I've been working for myself for several years and motivation can be a problem, for sure.

    Things that motivate me:
    - Running out of money
    - Thinking about how I need to be able to feed my dog
    - Fun goals that require money, e.g. taking trips
    - Remembering that putting in work up front makes life easier down the road
    - The general concept of wanting to be responsible and healthy
    - Commitments to people

    However, when it comes to commitments to people, what motivates me more in that regard is when there's a good, ongoing connection between me and them and when I have good support from them. Nebulous, huge tasks where I get behind and am disappointing people are actually more paralyzing.

    Making lists helps me, too. In particular, breaking down tasks into small, really doable and concrete steps.

    I've heard it said that procrastination happens when there are unanswered questions, which I've found can be true for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Believe it or not, I sometimes have this problem. After working a lot during the week, I'll sometimes come home and do nothing for two solid days, even though I had planned on getting a lot of things done. I mean, I can visit friends and buy groceries and do laundry and go to the library and go out for meals and maintenance stuff like that, but I won't work on the projects that I had planned.
    That's still definitely "doing things" for me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    The first method is to just do a little bit of the job at once. If you have a daunting eight-hour task that you really don't want to do, just work on it for one hour. Maybe just for fifteen minutes. You will find that once you get started, continuing is easier. And if it isn't, you can always quit after your allotted time is up.
    Yes, this works for me, too. Often it can be the idea of it is too daunting, but once I jump in and get momentum it isn't so bad and can even feel rewarding. My brain is my biggest enemy...


    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    Hope you can can find a similar strategy! I also found contract work to be extremely rewarding for awhile, since it capitalized on my initial excitement, forced me to finish the contract within 6 months - year, and then allowed me to get excited again for something new and different afterwards. This I think is more IEE specific, but perhaps this type of work would help.
    Variety is helpful for me, too. In my current career I get to wear several hats and do different sorts of things, which keeps me from getting bored.


    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    ESE dude.
    Yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    The job must be interesting, fit in line with their values, be harmonious, and not place Se stress and politics on them. That is a tough job to find- so they move on.
    Yes. I have other criteria, too.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    Is this a delta NF thing? How can you actually make yourself work? How can you motivate yourself? Or how can you even find that special someone, who is able to take care of you like a little child when you try to work?
    If other threads on this forum are of any indication, it's a problem of "vulnerable" logical elements and lack of motivations is said to be Ip temperament. Which means this is the greatest problem for SEIs and IEIs.

    "..At any upcoming work, even one that is loved, even one that is habitual and constant, the ISFp looks as some burdensome necessity - and this is one of the most serious problems of people of this type. Even if the ISFp easily and quickly completed a part of work, on the wave of a creative impulse, under the effect of inspiration, nevertheless, he or she will still have to finish it, to work through all the details, to check the end result, and all of this - is already a dreaded necessity.

    ..For ISFp it is always a struggle to enter into a working regime. It takes the ISFp a long while to "warm up" to it. It may seem to him that the work is greater than what he can do, that he doesn't know how to accomplish it, that he doesn't have enough resources and sufficient materials, or that his workplace is not sufficiently ready.

    ..Under the influence of a creative impulse, the ISFp can accomplish his work and not even notice it. Once an idea arrives on how it can be done - the SEI goes and does it. But "on single breath of inspiration" it is possible to do only a small volume of work, so how do representatives of this type do write multi-volume novels and direct so many films?

    ..The ISFps works magnificently well in creative sense. The SEI starts work on inspiration, and later forces him or herself to continue with it and to finish it. (Many artistic works of people of this type, the very beginning of the work - be it book, film, or opera - appears much more talented, more promising, and more interesting than its continuation and its end.) Between the first half of work and following parts there sometimes can be wide intervals of time. The SEI must "ripen" to continue with it and to complete it. This is very important for him - then the result justifies itself."

    That's all I have to contribute in regard to type

    At personal take @Tallmo's advice was superb

  27. #27
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milo View Post
    so how do representatives of this type do write multi-volume novels and direct so many films?
    That was interesting.
    I think those are mistypings. SEIs don't (usually) write books nor do they direct any films.

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