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Thread: Can you help?

  1. #1

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    Default Can you help?

    Since I'm not quite sure where to start, I'll just put down my basic thoughts and go on from there.

    I have known about Socionics for a few months, and I've dabbled in it from time to time. I haven't really committed to finding out my type on my own because typing oneself relies on the accuracy of your own observations, and this adds an uncertain factor.

    So, the basic question that I'm asking is: What is my type?

    From here, I am presenting my evidence. I appreciate that I have put a lot of stuff down, but this is the fullest description that I can provide.

    I am an unknown for all the letters. For the fourth, I have some indicators telling me that I am a P, although I definitely exhibit rational behaviour. This means that my J-P scale is not clear.

    Regarding my appearance, a guest called Rick put up this link:
    http://socionika.com/tipolog/rationa...ationality.htm
    My comments on the pictures are this:
    I have an Irrational height of nose.
    I have an Irrational angle of the nose.
    I have a Rational stretchability of profile.
    I have an Irrational thickness of lips.
    I have an Irrational area around the mouth.
    I have a Rational height of chin.

    I took the test on this site: http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/as...nt/survey.html I got Ti, Te, Si, Fe, Ne, Se, Fe, Ni. Ti, Te and Si all had similar levels of developed use.

    I then re-took the same test, this time with a person who is very familiar with me, and I got Si, Ti, Fi, Te, Fe, Ne, Se, Ni. Si, Ti and Fi all had very similar levels of developed use and very similar levels of synergistic use. Si, Ti, Fi, and Te all had similar levels of basic use. Fe, Ne, Se and Ni had similar levels of synergistic use.

    Now, I’ll give a description of my personality here. I’m the quiet, non-judgemental type. Some would say that I’m not actually quiet, but I’m just thoughtful. Either way, I speak less than average. Visually, when I smile, I do not expose much of my teeth. When I do speak, I am to the point and no-nonsense. I am adaptable. I usually come across as stable, level-headed and unemotional. I also come across as being very thoughtful, intelligent, perceptive and considerate of others. Emotionally, I am sensitive and mature. I am also balanced, disciplined and calm, but I can be aggressive if the need arises. Concerning aggression, I am gentle outwardly but tough, or resilient internally. Due to this resilience, I handle stress well. I am the quiet achiever, the “grey man” in the respect that I don’t have a big mouth, although I keep my principles. When I say “aggressive”, I do not necessarily become angry. I am normally a gentle, patient, self-controlled person, and it is not easy to make me angry. I will only be aggressive when necessary or when provoked, but even then I believe that I would only be aggressive to restore peace and not simply for the sake of being aggressive.

    I can be both independent and a team player. I play hard as well, although sometimes I view play as work and work as play, because I give both work and play my all. I have a desire to do the best, to be the best. I think that I value quality over quantity. I work slowly, precisely and pay attention to detail. I put in a lot of effort into jobs that I am given and this is habitual for me. I think that I am a bit of a prude and I am bit of a purist, because I want things to be done well and properly. Normally, I am somewhat relaxed and content, although I am worried about the consequences if I break the rules. In this sense I am quite obedient, even to those superiors who I have little respect for.

    I once asked my father about how I would fit in with other cultures. I mentioned a certain culture that he described as being, “Proud, strong, individual and tough. They believe in service.” I once read that this culture’s fighting men are described as being loyal, silent and reliable. My father said that I would probably fit in well with these people.

    I am meticulous. When, for example, designing and making a product, I have a tendency to go for simplistic designs which hinders me slightly. I have an independent understanding of ideas. If I do not understand a concept I will put forward my query. This means that I question more often than most people. In a certain person’s opinion, I “always try to ensure that he has understood exactly how to answer [a particular problem] … [and due to this can] occasionally become slightly fixated and unable to adapt his knowledge to the problem”. I am well-mannered, respectful, and in many ways a natural student of both athletic and the scholarly pursuits.

    If one were to measure my personality on the scales of Intelligence/Wisdom, Compassion and Courage/Bravery, I would score highly on each one. I feel compassion, though I sometimes do not really show it. I also have the ability to empathise. I show mental toughness and resilience, but “bravery” carries connotations of physical bravery and I am not sure about that because I have never been in a situation requiring serious physical bravery. Generally speaking, I have a balanced personality.

    When I came to think of bravery, though, I consulted with someone else who knows me thoroughly. He said that there are many kinds of bravery, such as emotional bravery, physical bravery and mental bravery. He said that I am emotionally and mentally brave, and probably physically too. I am also a stalwart – a resolute and determined man. I also do not tend to procrastinate. My advisor told me that I am honourable, upright and strong. I am therefore a good, honest person, stalwart and strong. Physically speaking, I project this by having a posture with a straight back. I can also sit still for a long time.

    I am not sure about my capacity to love. I think that, with my loyalty and devotion, I would be able to love profoundly, but I cannot be sure.

    Regarding intelligence, I am highly intelligent, although I am definitely not the kind of person to stay at home and be surrounded by books. I like nature, I like exercise – I want to be outdoors, challenging my physical self and much as my mental self. However, sometimes I wonder whether my “intelligence” is not actually due to brain power, but a good work ethic. I believe in hard work and keeping to the rules. I also have an academic mind, one that is logical, with a very good memory and I also work very hard. Add those together and this creates outward intelligence. However, I do not think that I like to be praised for my intelligence, although I am not sure about this.

    When I am gregarious and excited, I still retain a sense of [at least exterior] calmness and I tend to remain measured. I always exhibit some sort of reserve, but I am certainly not cold and I do have a dry sense of humour. I am serious in the sense that I am thoughtful, earnest and not frivolous. I think before I act and I think before I speak. I am not too adventurous, although I am quite curious and imaginative. I make decisions based on the productivity of the project and how I will feel before, during and after the project, although I am fully prepared to suffer for a large gain. I am a bit “naffed” if I am caught unawares by something, but I usually get over this reasonably quickly.

    I am usually quieter with people until I get to know them. Usually, I will only become really close friends with somebody if I deem them worthy. Of course, I would have friends that I would not deem worthy, but all of my close friends would be “deemed worthy”, if you follow me. I am somewhat disappointed and even, deep down, upset if I were to, for example, arrange a night out with a friend only for him to forget or run off with his girlfriend.

    I can get along with just about anybody because I am not pushy and imposing. I am also modest, personable, mature, and I have a nice sense of humour (I am not a natural comedian). My sense of humour has been described as “dry”. I like to read and to exercise.

    For me, materialism and money are not important – I prefer deep, quiet, slow and profound, and to be at one with nature and myself. I don’t try to control or restrain my emotions, mainly because when I tried that, a certain tension was created – but even without controlling my emotions I am calm and relaxed. I say “relaxed”, but I have principles which I stick to. I believe in hard work, honesty (but I’m not blunt), loyalty and compassion etc. I was once described as having a “sincere and reverent heart”. I am loyal to those above me and kind to those below me. If I am given responsibility it is against my nature to abuse it, and I take things seriously.

    I am not quite sure about my way of life in respect to solitude (choosing to retreat from society). I seem to enjoy conversing yet I prefer deep, quiet, slow etc. and being at one. So I’m not certain – the idea of a quiet life devoted to the study of a certain “Way” is appealing but I’m not sure how I’d like the practice of such a lifestyle. But I do want to have a difficult lifestyle because I am aware of a saying that goes along the lines of “It is oppressive to run until one is breathless. But it is an extraordinarily good feeling when one is resting after the run. In a similar manner, one’s life should be as toilsome as possible with rest at the end.”

    I have a purposeful, relaxed and steady gait. One could even call it elegant. My voice is soft and gradual, and therefore is quite pleasant to listen to. It is slightly deeper than normal, which is coupled with proper enunciation to create a voice that is firm but also nice to listen to.

    Physically speaking, I’m slim. But one person remarked that my frame is “compact”, as though I had been shrunk down from adult size to a teenager’s size without a loss of weight. He did say “stocky”, but then he retracted this statement, and was unable to pin down the right word.


    I am very sorry if I've overwhelmed you or been impolite in making such a massive post, but this is, in my view, necessary to find my type. I also didn't want to release this information gradually because you could take a look at the first piece of evidence, decide that I was type A, and ignore conflicting information in later pieces of evidence indicating that I am clearly type B. In other words, releasing information gradually could generate unwanted bias.

    On the topic of bias, I'd like to ask you to lay aside any bias that you may have based on the idea of type demographics (such as which types are likely to be involved in personality theory). I'm on this forum because of a need, not a natural interest.

    Thanks very much in advance.

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    You know what, Five? After the first paragraph about yourself I was thinking ISTJ, and reading the rest of that long post just made me more certain of it.

    ISTJ, IMO

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    you remind me of myself but with more patience, listing, and co-ordination of thought. i am istp

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    Could you give reasons why you think that I'm ISTj? I'm personally not certain of my type because I exhibit characteristics xSTx types in general, and some other types, and I seem to have an Irrational appearance.

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    I usually come across as stable, level-headed and unemotional. I also come across as being very thoughtful, intelligent, perceptive and considerate of others.
    ESTJs aren't level-headed and unemotional. They have a short fuse and can be very reactionary. They get pissed off easily. ISTPs are also not stable or considerate. They are the "spittin' sweat and blood" type. They can also forget about others feelings and can be as emotional as ESTJs. There is no way an ESTP will be stable and level-headed.

    Emotionally, I am sensitive and mature. I am also balanced, disciplined and calm, but I can be aggressive if the need arises.
    This is more ISTJ stuff, they are the most disiplined of the ST's. A lot of the time, ISTJs like to keep a peaceful enviorment around them. They hate it when people are inconsiderate and rude.

    I work slowly, precisely and pay attention to detail. I put in a lot of effort into jobs that I am given and this is habitual for me. I think that I am a bit of a prude and I am bit of a purist, because I want things to be done well and properly.
    Quintessencial ISTJ.

    I am worried about the consequences if I break the rules. In this sense I am quite obedient, even to those superiors who I have little respect for.
    Not only will an ISTP not be worried about consequences, they ENJOY breaking the rules. ISTPs do crazy things like jump off roofs and play chicken. ESTPs aren't obeident or care about rules much, either.

    I am also a stalwart – a resolute and determined man. I also do not tend to procrastinate. My advisor told me that I am honourable, upright and strong. I am therefore a good, honest person, stalwart and strong. Physically speaking, I project this by having a posture with a straight back. I can also sit still for a long time.
    More ISTJ descriptions.

    I think I'm gonna stop now. As for appearence, take a look:

    ISTJ


    ESTP


    ESTJ


    ISTP

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    Firstly, I have an update for the description: When I'm quiet, I do not seem shy or grumpy. Rather, I seem vigilant and like I'm watching everything. I seem like a sponge, soaking up everything.

    Secondly, I'm not sure about your opinion that I am an ISTj. There are a number of reasons why. For example, I am not prone to sudden changes in attitude and don't appear unrestrained in close company. I'm not the life and soul of a party and I can't sing (or I don't think that I can). I don't think I like printed propaganda - in fact, I don't think that I like showiness, viewing showiness as not being "correct" (that is the purist in me).

    I would also keep an open mind that I could be any of the other xSTx types. For example, you say that ESTps aren't stable and level-headed, and that ISTjs are the most disciplined of the ST club, but the Socionics description says that ESTps have "cast-iron self-control".

    Plus the fact that I have an Irrational appearance, and that the Cognitive Processes results don't correlate (they showed me as being more of a Te-Si or Si-Te person), makes me uncertain of your diagnosis.

    What are your thoughts?

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    Edited for gayness.

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    I'm not the life and soul of a party and I can't sing
    ? ? I don't know where you heard this, but all ISTJs can't sing. Actually, I don't think most ISTJs can sing. As for the life of the party, it is true some ISTJs can become the life of the party, but certainly not all of them. Some like keeping to their introverted selfs. The ones who are more in the party are because of their dual-seeking function and they like it when people pay attention to them. If you don't like attention like that you might be an ISTP.

    I don't think that I like showiness, viewing showiness as not being "correct" (that is the purist in me).
    This would probabley eliminate ESTPs.

    For example, you say that ESTps aren't stable and level-headed, and that ISTjs are the most disciplined of the ST club, but the Socionics description says that ESTps have "cast-iron self-control".
    That probabley is refering to ESTPs' drive. When ESTPs see something they like or want to do something they go out and do it. Want to ask that girl out? They do it. Hear of an interesting movie? They go and see it. But in terms of stablity, ESTPs can destoy it if they get frustrated at all. When ESTPs get angry, they like to throw things or curse of the wrong people. In the heat of the moment, ESTPs often do things they don't think through.

    Plus the fact that I have an Irrational appearance, and that the Cognitive Processes results don't correlate (they showed me as being more of a Te-Si or Si-Te person), makes me uncertain of your diagnosis.
    I'm not so sure about the irrational appearence, but this points more towards ISTP. Look at the expressions and postures on the pictures above and see which one you think is better.

    Also, the relationships are much diffrent with ISTPs and ISTJs. An ENFP will be the ISTPs dual but the ISTJs conflict. See which people you get along with better. For an ENFP, think someone like Paula Abdul. An ENFJ will be more heavy on the and have a, "Vote for me for President" personality. ENFPs believe in "Live and let live" while ENFJs don't mind letting people know about their beliefs.

    Also, consider things like your hidden agenda. ISTPs' is TO LOVE, and ISTJs' is TO BELIEVE. ISTPs don't like people judging their emotions or talking about their personal life. They can also be sensitive. ISTJs hate disorder and constant change.

    Hope this helps.

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    How do the hidden agendas manfiest themselves?

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    For IxTPs, their weak function is Fe. This mean that they often ignore that function and can find it painful if someone puts too much pressure on it (this is what your conflict does). Because of this, their hidden agenda is Fi. It's an area that a lot of the time people don't want to show or admit, but it still can come out. It's something that you really want to have, but may be difficult to do.

    For Fi, they have to show affection, like people, have morals, etc... IxTPs often like having pets and show affection that way. IxTPs might stop to talk to neighbors or do the "So, how's buisness... how you doin'..." when in a resturant or store. Not all do this, though. Joe DiMaggio (INTP) never liked to be smothered with attention or went out with his teamates (or even talk to them), but when Marliyn Monroe died he sent roses to her grave every year. That's Fi.

    An ISxJ has a weak Ne. They don't like disorder, or searching for new ways to do things or change. Their hidden agenda is Ni. They have to find something to believe in, because if they don't they have to use their weak Ne more. This would become irritable. They can be overwhelmed when something isn't proven or they don't have faith in it.

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    Further to my post at 4.22pm, I'd also like to ask you to identify who those people in the pictures are (I'm not American).

    SportsFan: read the Socionics ISTj description. It was there that I found the point about singing and parties.

    Another few reasons why I may not be an ISTj: I don't think that I utilise common expressions and sayings any more than an ordinary person. My bedroom is not "regimented", in fact it is quite disorganised. I'm not too interested in mysticism specifically.

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    Sorry, SportsFan, I didn't see your last post. Thank you for that.

    I do not want pets, but that may be because I have been brought up in a family rejecting pets on the grounds of hassle and hygiene. I've accepted this.

    Regarding the hidden agenda of an ISTj, could you give examples of what an ISTj would believe in?

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    The ISTJ is Christy Mathewson. He was a baseball pitcher a hundred years ago. ISTJs can either be the polite kind or the angry kind. He was definatley the polite one. His teammates said that they would break their back for him. He was also an excellent chess player. He would take on multiple opponets at one time. He was known to have an excellent memory.

    The ESTP is Bobby Brown. He is an R&B artist (rythm and blues). He is also married to pop singer Whitney Houston. Bobby is known for going to jail, doing drugs, hitting his wife, and crashing cars while drunk. Bobby thinks everything should be about Bobby.

    The ESTJ is Roger Clemens. He is also a pitcher, but he plays baseball now. He has a legendary work ethic and is competative and aggressive. He is also prone to lose his head in the heat of the moment (that means he doesn't think straight). He put a guy in a comma by throwing at his head and hitting him with a baseball.

    The ISTP is Muhammad Ali. He was a boxer. He had the personality you would think a great boxer would have. ISTPs like to live on the edge. I know an ISTP who purposley let his friend hit him with a car, twice! ISTPs don't mind breaking laws they don't like or doing crazy things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    Regarding the hidden agenda of an ISTj, could you give examples of what an ISTj would believe in?
    ANYTHING! A mathematical formula, a religon, how to cook a steak... anything that they can trust.

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    Five, are you a strong willed person? When there is something what you want, are you able to constantly push your self to achive it and even if others will be dissaponted when you ignore them for your own good?

    Are you a generator of ideas and do you easily understand new ideas, also are you good at getting the most of the characteristics of a man you have know for a while?
    Semiotical process

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    Thanks for those questions, male21. I'll think them over.

    In the meantime, I would appreciate it if anyone else could give their opinions of my type (CuriousSoul, Hugo, SmilingEyes, Waddlesworth, Herzblut etc. - care to give it a try?)

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    More on the hidden agenda...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearl Eighty
    ISTJ,ISFJ = To believe

    Skeptical, critical, independent, determined, paranoid, sometimes stubborn… yep, that's me!

    My family has joked that I BELIEVE NOTHING AND NOONE. Although I don't have to see and feel everything to believe it, I do require overwhelming proof and a healthy respect for your intelligence to be persuaded.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sergei Ganin
    Since the hidden agenda is a subconscious process, "obsession" and "pre-occupation" are not the right words to describe it, and because people often do not even realise that they have got it, the hidden agenda can strongly influence their behaviour.

    Because of the nature of the hidden agenda, people either try to hide it or openly stick it into other people's faces. Both ways are the defensive mechanisms aimed to protect the weakest spot. The first one reads like this: "If I don't show others my Achilles' heel and try to divert any attention from it, others won't know where to hurt me". The second one reads like this: "Instead of hiding, I am going to attract attention to it, so it will lead others to believe that it's my strength". And since the hidden agenda plays important role as the "psychological circuit breaker", the second choice of defence can be quite dangerous, because overriding the safety feature can overload the whole system.

    For INTJs such limitation is their concern with an internal body functioning. One of the main body functions is food digestion. It starts when food enters the mouth and finishes when the food leaves the body. As a result an INTJ may experience great discomfort trying to eat when no one else around them is eating, as in their minds, this may attract unnecessary attention to their body functioning. Exceptions are close friends and family.

    Being healthy for INTJ translates as being physically healthy i.e. when the body works as it is supposed to. Supposed to? If you think you have a problem with your body just because it functions differently from what someone tells you it is supposed to - forget it. Each body is individual, and although there are common body illnesses, there are no two bodies alike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by male21
    Are you a strong willed person? When there is something what you want, are you able to constantly push your self to achieve it and even if others will be disappointed when you ignore them for your own good?
    What exactly did you mean by that? (Remember, if I am an ISTj, I'll need clarification on everything )

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    Ignore my last question. I've realised that it was actually a little stupid. Instead, I've got a really pressing question for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by rmcnew
    ISTjs will intentionally infringe upon you and feel that they have to push people around because no one cares about them; they will be verbally and physically abusive for little or no reason. They have a tendency to come off as idiotic and ignorant bigots and tend to suffer from a large degree of paranoia and skitophrenic tendencies. They will do what ever it takes to get the upper hand and will resort to pushing and shoving or bully tactics to get what they need. They run their life with military type organization and treat those close to them with the love of a marine core boot sargent, demanding that they follow orders and will infringe upon the personal space of others. ISTjs are typically people you do not want to have close to you or as a family member, otherwise they tend to make alot of money and are good providers.
    That doesn't describe me. Yet, in that same topic, someone mentioned a polite and reserved ISTj who had "got his act together" and someone on this topic mentioned that there are two types of ISTj. Could someone please fill me in on these details about the two types of ISTj?

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    Yeah, there are diffrent types of ISTJs. You have to remember that your type is not your personality. People with the same type can have vastley diffrent personalities. This Guy is the rude kind of ISTJ. There are the kind ones too. Maybe rmcnew sterotypes ISTJs like this because of his father.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by male21
    Are you a strong-willed person? When there is something what you want, are you able to constantly push your self to achieve it ...
    Yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by male21
    ... and even if others will be disappointed when you ignore them for your own good?
    Not sure.


    Quote Originally Posted by male21
    Are you a generator of ideas ...
    No, but this ability is developing at my age (adolesence).


    Quote Originally Posted by male21
    ... and do you easily understand new ideas ...
    Yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by male21
    also are you good at getting the most of the characteristics of a man you have know for a while?
    I believe so.


    Quote Originally Posted by PearlEighty
    Skeptical, critical, independent, determined, paranoid, sometimes stubborn… yep, that's me!

    My family has joked that I BELIEVE NOTHING AND NOONE. Although I don't have to see and feel everything to believe it, I do require overwhelming proof and a healthy respect for your intelligence to be persuaded.
    I'm sceptical, critical, determined and sometimes stubborn. I'm not paranoid. A better word would be "wary" or "slightly distrustful". I'm "getting there" with regards to independence.

    As for the second point, I don't require "overwhelming proof" but I do require convincing proof and a respect for the source.

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    Without meaning to be impolite, I'm slightly miffed that nobody has replied to my post(s). Maybe it's because of more interesting posts elsewhere, or maybe it's because you are all decided on ISTj, but I'm personally still confused about my type and need help.

    I need help because I can't see why you all seem to be so decided and certain on ISTj, bearing in mind that I am highly imaginative (which I view as an Intuitive trait, but correct me if I'm wrong) and I don't exhibit all ISTj characteristics. Perhaps I'm approaching Socionics in the wrong manner and trying to be too exact, but I don't feel convinced about my type.

    Of course, I'm not asking for everyone to focus on me alone, and I'm not asking for marathon-long posts. All I would like is for somebody just to talk my type through with me and give me an opportunity to ask questions until I'm satisfied beyond reasonable doubt.

    Again, I don't mean to be impolite or disrespectful, but I simply wanted to speak my mind.

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    Even the way you ask questions is ISTJ . Also, you're ansers to male21's questions seem to point towars a stong Se and strong Ti. That would be an ISTJ.

    Quote Originally Posted by five
    I don't exhibit all ISTj characteristics. Perhaps I'm approaching Socionics in the wrong manner and trying to be too exact, but I don't feel convinced about my type.
    I think it would take an ISTJ longer than any other type to actually be convinced of their type... it's just their nature. And don't get too tied up with all the ISTJ characteristics. Everything written about an ISTJ will not fit you, they are just generalizations for people in that type. I've stressed before that a type is not a personality. Your type has to do more with how you think, how you approach the world, how you react in diffrent situations and so on. I have read that your type only makes up about %60 of who you are. The rest is genetics and nurturing.

    Quote Originally Posted by five
    give me an opportunity to ask questions until I'm satisfied beyond reasonable doubt
    That's an ISTJ state of mind, too. :wink:
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    I can see Ti in me. But how does the Se in the second function manifest itself?

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    Se would be your creative function. ISTJs like to see and judge things that are actually there and tangible. They are more literal and experence things by observeing them. ISTJs don't jump to conclusions easily. They are strong-willed and can often go after and get something they want. They are good in day-to-day matters. When an ISTJ undertakes a job, they will see it out fully and pay attention to all the little details.

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    How confident are ISTjs? I know that this is a very general question, so I'm looking for an answer that goes more like, "When in such-and-such a situation, the ISTj is very likely to be confident but in this situation he won't be confident unless he has prepared a response" etc.

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    ISTJs area of confidence comes from Ti. They feel confident in understanding new ideas. They feel comfortable using their logical to solve problems. An ISTJ would not feel confident in an enviorment of chaos and disorder. They may also feel unconfident if they found something they usually do doesn't work and have to find a new way to do it.

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    How confident are ISTjs in physical situations or where they have to draw unnecessary attention to themselves?

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    ISTJs are ussually comfortable in physical situations. It is not where they draw their confidence from, but they can handle physical situations well for the most part. As for attention, they do like it when people pay attention to them while speaking, but might be uncomfortable when they draw unnecessary attention to themselves. I think they like to monitor how much and when they get attention.

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    I think that it's a tendency of me to want people to look at me when I'm talking.

    So, I take it that my type has unanimously been decided as ISTj.

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    I'm sorry if I did not make myself clear: the last sentence was a question.

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    Yes, you are an ISTj.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Now, for some reason, I have a slightly negative view of the ISTj personality. Of course, I will not fit a type description totally, but I'm still left with a little bit of negativity. One way to overcome this for us to find examples of ISTjs, both real-life and fictional, and we would eventually find an example whom I respected and this would be a solution.

    So, a few questions to start off this list of examples. Firstly, what countries are ISTj? Secondly, what real-life ISTjs are there? Thirdly, what fictional ISTjs are there (from such films/books as Ghost Dog, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Cold Mountain, The Matrix, Seven Samurai, Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon etc.)?

    Could I also ask another few questions: Are ISTjs dignified? Are ISTjs proud and/or modest? Are they serious? Are they loners? What's good and what's bad about them?

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    This is a start;

    http://www.socioniko.net/en/1.1.types/index-type.html

    And I think Morpheus from The Matrix is an ISTj.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Exactly the sort of stuff that I'm looking for. Should we continue this idea in this topic, or should I start a 'List of ISTjs' topic in General Discussion?

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    In addition to my other questions and the debate about which people/countries are ISTj, I’d like to say two things.

    The first is another observation on my personality, which is probably an ISTj trait: I am reserved and serious, and this creates an impression of distance. However, if I found a friend, I would be a very good friend to him/her. I am ‘in limbo’ because I am not at odds with others (because I am a nice guy) but I am not naturally inclined to make friends.


    The second is a list of characters from the film Seven Samurai, which I’ve mentioned before, and I would like for us to take a look at these main characters and decide which are ISTjs, if any.

    The story is that a Japanese village in the sixteenth century hires seven masterless samurai to protect it from bandit raids. The samurai detailed here are excluding those who are definitely not ISTjs.

    Kambei epitomises compassion, integrity and selflessness. Kambei throws away his samurai dignity by cutting off his topknot, an unspeakable act in those times, in order to rescue a boy from a thief for no reward. He is also the one who accepts the mission of the villagers – to defend a village from forty bandits for no pay apart from three meals of rice each day, and must find six other samurai to stand a chance against the bandits. He is a skilled swordsman. He is also modest, thoughtful and wise due to his age and battle experience.

    Kyuzo is a master swordsman. Initially, he rejects Kambei’s offer of protecting a village for no reward because Kyuzo is not interested in killing and wishes only to perfect his skill at swordsmanship. However, he returns later on to fight. Kyuzo is serious, and does not speak much; he has very few lines in the entire film. However, he is not completely stone-faced as he can be seen laughing and smiling at certain points. He is very brave, going out on all authorised missions. He does not brag but simply goes about his duties. When one of the villagers wants to steal a gun from the bandits (which would deprive the bandits of a tactical advantage because it was still an era of swords and spears), Kyuzo goes instead. He says nothing about it except “Killed two” before going off somewhere to sleep. He offers to save his rice for an old grandmother, and keeps an affair secret.

    Gorobei is a skilled samurai who accepts the mission not because of compassion for the villagers but because he is fascinated by Kambei. He is kind, optimistic, smart, and likes children. He is loyal and, in terms of fighting skill, quite adequate.

    Heihachi is found enthusiastically chopping wood for food. He later jokingly describes himself as a “fencer of the Wood Cut School”. He is cheerful, polite, kind, sensitive, and enjoys a good joke. He tries to help others when he knows that they have an unresolved problem. As a fighter, he is a little lacking, however.

    Shichiroji is an old friend of Kambei, and thus has a bond with Kambei that needs no words. He has an analytical mind, and is also quite selfless because he signs up to help the villagers immediately.

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    I do not think that all ISTjs are bad, but the ones I know are obsessed to the point to where they often walk all over other people to get their way.

    There might be some that do not do this, but I have yet to find any.

    By the way, alot of boot sargents are ISTjs ... probably because they are not afraid to push people around to get their way.

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    You've mentioned the difference between personality and type. How do you know that you haven't identified my personality, instead of my type, as ISTj? Is it just overwhelmingly obvious, or is it something more subtle?

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    Dear Five,

    I can help you to find out your type.

    Put the following sentences in order, starting with the sentence that describes you the best and finishing with the sentence that describes you the worst.

     I am influenced by possibilities. (N)
     I am influenced by my surroundings. (S)
     I am influenced by my emotions. (F)
     I am influenced by logical reasons. (T)

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    To Hugo:

    These are my answers:

    1. I am influenced by logical reasons. (T)
    2. I am influenced by my emotions. (F)
    3. I am influenced by my surroundings. (S)
    4. I am influenced by possibilities. (N)

    These were reached in consultation with another person in order to reduce bias.

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