Fluttering Shy Says Hi! With a Wry :)

[justalitnerdxx]

Hey so I just realised I never properly introduced myself, aside from jumping in with the self typing questionnaire and posting the odd comment on threads. Apologies.

So I'm from England, interested in psychology, sociology, literature, particularly gothic genres and science fiction, but I'm also into less 'nerdy' topics like dancing, learning languages, watching anime... (ok so only dance is cool, everything else I'm into screams Wallflower Loner Loser! )

i tend to hibernate in my room, with cups of tea and journals; when im not busy working full time as a receptionist, which is not as glamorous as Joan from Mad Men made out!

i do consider myself a part time explorer though; I do love travelling and sampling culture, like historical sites both ruins and preserved aka Stone Henge, Buckingham Palace, grand natural features like Loch Ness, and beatnik herby smelling cafes like Amsterdam but less drugs and more bergamot scented tea leaves.

so yeah that's the real nutshell of who I am. My bio says my enneagram and potential socionics types; though I do think of the two or three listed, EII is most likely.

Have a nice day/evening wherever you are and whatever you're doing.


Fluttering Shy

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Do you wannabe be sexed up by a hot prison Chad/courtney love-ish bad girl or do u want a snobby business woman/man to talk about world events, ethics and Fi spirituality all day? That is the core difference between IEI and EII.

[Nanooka]

Hi, welcome to the board. I just wanted to say you sound awesome and like someone I'd probably get along well with. Like seriously, why do you have every single one of my interests? Was I cloned?

Also Bullets is just kidding, my precious IEIs do not all want prison sex with Chad and not every EII wants my douchebag yuppie cousin. But you do sound pretty Ne/Si-valuing to me, my guess is definitely some kind of Ethical Ne/Si type based on what I've seen of your posts so far. I'd strongly consider EII, SEI, or IEE of the Fi subtype.

[Orthotomus]

Hi, welcome to the board. I just wanted to say you sound awesome and like someone I'd probably get along well with. Like seriously, why do you have every single one of my interests? Was I cloned?

Also Bullets is just kidding, my precious IEIs do not all want prison sex with Chad and not every EII wants my douchebag yuppie cousin. But you do sound pretty Ne/Si-valuing to me, my guess is definitely some kind of Ethical Ne/Si type based on what I've seen of your posts so far. I'd strongly consider EII, SEI, or IEE of the Fi subtype.

Don't you think she uses too much Ne to be SEI? I'm not sure how Ne-DS is supposed to manifest itself, but I doubt it would be something like what we can see in her questionnaire. Also, this: "I have to admit I do suppress my own expression of feelings if I know it will wound someone's sense of self" - to me it sounds like Fi-driven way of viewing the world. It's not like I can exclude SEI for sure (especially since I realise I'm far from being any kind of expert in socionics), but to me EII makes more sense than SEI. Although it would be nice to hear some more experienced people's opinion on this (preferably with some argumentation, so I could understand it better).

And yes, she sounds like a nice and fairly interesting person.

[Nanooka]

From what I saw in her questionnaire, I didn't read anything specifically indicative of strong rather than just valued Ne. She expresses Ne-oriented pursuits as interests, but I didn't see any real concrete use of it or expression of strength in it.

The impression I get is blaringly "Ethical, Ne/Si valuing, probably too withdrawn for ESE." I really can't conclusively say beyond that though. The forgetfulness with minor everyday tasks is the only point against SEI that I saw, and it's a pretty minor one honestly since there are reasons for that consistent with the SEI type. On the other hand, her tendency stated in the questionnaire towards suppressing her feelings to keep the atmosphere of an area positive (and subsequent negativistic mopeyness about it) is a little bit more typical of an SEI than an EII. It's not like it's a non-issue for EIIs, but EIIs will usually be more concerned with upholding their principles than keeping a positive emotional atmosphere if the two came into conflict. So I think it's best to keep the viable possibilities open.

Not wanting to "wound someone's sense of self" sounds like it's probably a manifestation of strong Fi, only because that implies being able to clearly tell where the fault lines would be for that. It's not necessarily valued though. Sense of self matters to anyone, E4s often manifest in every Fe-ego type besides ESE and they're all about a search for identity. Unless they had good reason for doing so, I don't think a healthy Fe-ego (or most people) would want to wound someone's sense of self either, and unlike Logicals any Ethical (Fe or Fi ego) would be able to gauge more specific nuances there.

[justalitnerdxx]

Thank you. Nice to meet you all too :£

Yeah, I'm coming to the quick conclusion that I'm definitely NOT Se/No valuing and somewhere in the Ethical Ne/Si spectrum. I just considered IEI cause from a Facebook group, a few of my aquaintances on there said I seemed 'Victim/y and like I was crying out for Se pushes'. I'm not too sure really. I've been told I seem quite EII or yeah, SEI too.

i relate far more to the EII description but I'm not sure how I really come across, whether my behaviours and mannerisms are of a different type or not.

[justalitnerdxx]

Do you wannabe be sexed up by a hot prison Chad/courtney love-ish bad girl or do u want a snobby business woman/man to talk about world events, ethics and Fi spirituality all day? That is the core difference between IEI and EII.

Of the two. I pick the latter. If they tone down the snobbishness anyways :3

[justalitnerdxx]

From what I saw in her questionnaire, I didn't read anything specifically indicative of strong rather than just valued Ne. She expresses Ne-oriented pursuits as interests, but I didn't see any real concrete use of it or expression of strength in it.

The impression I get is blaringly "Ethical, Ne/Si valuing, probably too withdrawn for ESE." I really can't conclusively say beyond that though. The forgetfulness with minor everyday tasks is the only point against SEI that I saw, and it's a pretty minor one honestly since there are reasons for that consistent with the SEI type. On the other hand, her tendency stated in the questionnaire towards suppressing her feelings to keep the atmosphere of an area positive (and subsequent negativistic mopeyness about it) is a little bit more typical of an SEI than an EII. It's not like it's a non-issue for EIIs, but EIIs will usually be more concerned with upholding their principles than keeping a positive emotional atmosphere if the two came into conflict. So I think it's best to keep the viable possibilities open.

Not wanting to "wound someone's sense of self" sounds like it's probably a manifestation of strong Fi, only because that implies being able to clearly tell where the fault lines would be for that. It's not necessarily valued though. Sense of self matters to anyone, E4s often manifest in every Fe-ego type besides ESE and they're all about a search for identity. Unless they had good reason for doing so, I don't think a healthy Fe-ego (or most people) would want to wound someone's sense of self either, and unlike Logicals any Ethical (Fe or Fi ego) would be able to gauge more specific nuances there.

it has been suspected actually that I have inattentive adhd which may explain to some extent my forgetfulness. I either need to leave a reminder to my future self right away, or, do the task at that moment. Goldfish brain here 0_o

And about my self expression concerns of offending or hurting others; I think it comes from a place of me being highly empathetic and not wanting to cause anyone to feel negative in general, whether towards me and our relationship, or have them feel internally unsettled and pained.

I feel that I'm more align with Infantile/Pseudo Caregiver (Delta NF) than Caregiver (Alpha SF version), then again I do doubt that I have understood the terms correctly.

[justalitnerdxx]

Oh and I'm not sure what this points at, maybe the position of Si in my stack?

i tend to research ways to feel better when I'm sick, so I can self care, and tend to look up reviews of products I use so that I've got a good understand before I buy of how to use it and how effective it will be for the job it needs to do. I'm forever refining my sensory experiences, whether it be adjusting my surroundings or me to my surroundings in order to feel physically, and mentally, the best way.

[Orthotomus]

Not wanting to "wound someone's sense of self" sounds like it's probably a manifestation of strong Fi, only because that implies being able to clearly tell where the fault lines would be for that. It's not necessarily valued though. Sense of self matters to anyone, E4s often manifest in every Fe-ego type besides ESE and they're all about a search for identity. Unless they had good reason for doing so, I don't think a healthy Fe-ego (or most people) would want to wound someone's sense of self either, and unlike Logicals any Ethical (Fe or Fi ego) would be able to gauge more specific nuances there.

What I meant was her exact way of paraphrasing the idea I provided her with. Sure, many people value sense of self, but the way she worded the thought sounds indicative of Fi to me (I mean, perceiving saying something bad to someone as first of all attacking their identity sounds to me like Fi-focus). Of course I can imagine a non-Fi-ego agreeing with such a statement - but would they arrange their thoughts in such a manner? Yeah, such subtletlies are but hints in determining the sociotype, but I believe noticing them may lead us somewhere.

As for Ne, I think I could point out some of its possible manifestations, but I guess I'll do it under her questionnaire (so it would be easier to reference it).

[Nanooka]

Oh and I'm not sure what this points at, maybe the position of Si in my stack?

i tend to research ways to feel better when I'm sick, so I can self care, and tend to look up reviews of products I use so that I've got a good understand before I buy of how to use it and how effective it will be for the job it needs to do. I'm forever refining my sensory experiences, whether it be adjusting my surroundings or me to my surroundings in order to feel physically, and mentally, the best way.

Hm. The fixation on product reviews and thorough investigation into a product's effectiveness actually sounds more Te-related to me than Si-related. But the simple act of doing that could describe Te in most function positions, what'd be more indicative of your type is specifically how it affects you.

The self-care reads as minutely Si-valuing leaning to me, but I'm pretty convinced you're that anyway and everyone on some level strives to feel better when they're ill. "Forever refining my sensory experiences" sounds majorly indicative of Si focus, though it'd vary in what specifically it points to (strong or weak) based on how naturally well you handle it. It could describe base or HA easily, I think it describes Si-DS less well so I think it's a point against IEE.

What I meant was her exact way of paraphrasing the idea I provided her with. Sure, many people value sense of self, but the way she worded the thought sounds indicative of Fi to me (I mean, perceiving saying something bad to someone as first of all attacking their identity sounds to me like Fi-focus). Of course I can imagine a non-Fi-ego agreeing with such a statement - but would they arrange their thoughts in such a manner?

I think so. Unlike in usual MBTI descriptions, "identity" isn't really a huge focus in how Fi is defined in Socionics; the definitions of it instead focus on personal and especially relational value judgments. This is further proven, I think, in the fact that a lot of Fi-devaluers are hugely identity-centric. While she doesn't necessarily sound like she's from the type (I could see 4, 9, 2w1, or a really soft 6w7 if her self-typing is right), E4 is the most identity-centric Enneatype and not only the single most common Enneagram type for IEIs by most accounts, but also a common one for SEIs. So I don't see being careful to not shake up someone's sense of identity as all that indicative of much, beyond being capable of competently avoiding it and therefore probs Ethical.

[justalitnerdxx]

What I meant was her exact way of paraphrasing the idea I provided her with. Sure, many people value sense of self, but the way she worded the thought sounds indicative of Fi to me (I mean, perceiving saying something bad to someone as first of all attacking their identity sounds to me like Fi-focus). Of course I can imagine a non-Fi-ego agreeing with such a statement - but would they arrange their thoughts in such a manner? Yeah, such subtletlies are but hints in determining the sociotype, but I believe noticing them may lead us somewhere.

As for Ne, I think I could point out some of its possible manifestations, but I guess I'll do it under her questionnaire (so it would be easier to reference it).

i think personally, I see people's feelings towards other things aka people, objects, places and situations as being linked to the inherent self. So if you for example, insult their passion projects or places they are to, you are essentially attacking their entire nature. It's how it feels to me anyways though I often know that insensitive comments about my hobbies or passion projects aren't meant to hurt me or cause me pain, but it does.

And I see attacks on people's way of being as the ultimate bitch slap :/ this is just how I view 'sense of self' and how vulnerable it can be to

[justalitnerdxx]

Hm. The fixation on product reviews and effectiveness actually sounds more Te-related to me than Si-related. But depending on how it specifically affects you, it could describe Te in most function positions.

The self-care reads as minutely Si-valuing leaning to me, but I'm pretty convinced you're that anyway and everyone on some level strives to feel better when they're ill. "Forever refining my sensory experiences" sounds majorly indicative of Si focus, though it'd vary in strength based on how naturally well you handle it. It could describe base or HA easily, I think it describes Si-DS less well so I think it's a point against IEE.

oh yeah my big self critique of why I'm not SEI is that I have a Si Fetish but I regard my use of refining sensory experiences as clumsy and hesitant, I like feedback and validation on if my methods are good or bad for my body or not. I can't really tell if certain food or drinks are harming my digestive system and skin or ifs having a neutral to good effect on me/

[Nanooka]

Hmm. This could be a major pointer one way or the other, but how else do you consider it clumsy?

I ask because certain Russian descriptions of Si are weird, as if strong-Si types somehow mystically just have some innate feeling that something is harming their skin or digestive system or something long-term. As opposed to like... picking up on a trend of bad results like anyone else, albeit possibly being more aware of their physical sensations than most and therefore picking up on warning signs earlier.

I'd connect Si more to awareness of sensations, detailed experience of them, easy understanding of how physical sensation one flows into another as a process, an easygoing/leisurely outlook on life, etc. I don't put much stock in descriptions that make Si ego types, or any type, sound like they have superpowers. I'd lean EII for you if you see your use of the above more concrete descriptions of Si as clumsy, your type is otherwise still pretty up in the air IMO.

[justalitnerdxx]

Hmm. This could be a major pointer one way or the other, but how else do you consider it clumsy?

I ask because certain Russian descriptions of Si are weird, as if strong-Si types somehow mystically just have some innate feeling that something is harming their skin or digestive system or something long-term. As opposed to like... picking up on a trend of bad results like anyone else, albeit possibly being more aware of their physical sensations than most and therefore picking up on warning signs earlier.

I'd connect Si more to awareness of sensations, detailed experience of them, easy understanding of how physical sensation one flows into another as a process, an easygoing/leisurely outlook on life, etc. I don't put much stock in descriptions that make Si ego types, or any type, sound like they have superpowers.

I regard it as clumsy in that I'm often unsure about 'the warning signs' and while I do pick up on trends aka every time I eat a peach my stomach hurts, I'm mostly unaware of the pain until it's suddenly stabbing me. And also, I wish I was more easy going with how life moves moments to moments, more leisurely reactions and peace. I'm actually quite highly tense and over analyse how moment to moment is progressing (am I doing well enough? Have I broken any work or relationship protocol? What if *insert disasterous bad scenario happens*??) I'm a perfectionist too. I honestly think I could stand to be more appreciative of each moment as it happens and make the best of it: I admire people who can adapt to their surroundings and also can turn chaos in order. Myself? Nah, I just loose my nerve and go overly perfectionistic and negative.

i have been told I come across as quite calming though...like people feel that I'm sympathetic but reserved so that they know they can confide in me if they wish to, that I won't push myself on them

[justalitnerdxx]

Oh and this may be an example of bad sensing functions? I just sat on grass for my lunch and wasn't aware that the grass had been freshly cut, until I just stood up to go back in the office and realised blades of green are stuck al on my tights and in my shoes

[Nanooka]

I regard it as clumsy in that I'm often unsure about 'the warning signs' and while I do pick up on trends aka every time I eat a peach my stomach hurts, I'm mostly unaware of the pain until it's suddenly stabbing me. And also, I wish I was more easy going with how life moves moments to moments, more leisurely reactions and peace. I'm actually quite highly tense and over analyse how moment to moment is progressing (am I doing well enough? Have I broken any work or relationship protocol? What if *insert disasterous bad scenario happens*??) I'm a perfectionist too. I honestly think I could stand to be more appreciative of each moment as it happens and make the best of it: I admire people who can adapt to their surroundings and also can turn chaos in order. Myself? Nah, I just loose my nerve and go overly perfectionistic and negative.

This sounds definitely like you're not IP temperament, like at all. Being hyper-tense especially, IPs are low in tension and their usual negative extreme is listlessness instead. Yeah, I think EII is the most likely fit.

i have been told I come across as quite calming though...like people feel that I'm sympathetic but reserved so that they know they can confide in me if they wish to, that I won't push myself on them

People seeing someone as calming is common in any IXFx type, also in SLIs, though for both Si-related and Fi-related (Ethical introvert) reasons. Think... Mr. Rogers, but also Bob Ross or Baloo from The Jungle Book, they're calm for different but often overlapping reasons. This sounds specifically like an Ethical-tinged version of being seen as a calming force, with little of the Si-tinged ("simplicity," "chill") stuff included.

Oh and this may be an example of bad sensing functions? I just sat on grass for my lunch and wasn't aware that the grass had been freshly cut, until I just stood up to go back in the office and realised blades of green are stuck al on my tights and in my shoes

I think that happens to everyone, I've never met anyone who really gives grass a careful look-over before sitting down. Be careful not to assume too much is type-related, it's a common mistake a lot of people who are new to and fascinated by typology fall into. People who read type into too many situations often end up with a "everyone is 16 hyper-stereotyped cookie-cutter boxes" view of typology. I think it leads to things like the above example of attributing near-superpower level abilities to one type or another, not grounding typology in "what are the real differences I see in the people around me" can kinda dangerously disconnect someone from reality.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

So if you for example, insult their passion projects or places they are to, you are essentially attacking their entire nature.

Not necessarily but I always say constructive criticism is worth your time, somebody just being a sadistic little shit is not. You can just tell how heartfelt they are being with human insight usually. How much they are trying to critique your work vs how much they are are trying to critique your inherent human soul and goodness.

I am shy too. Probably shyer than you. (Can we have a shy-off?) I sat by myself in high school and had 0 friends and was basically a male Carrie. =) You do sound delta though, the opposite of my quadra regardless.

[Orthotomus]

@Nanooka Just to get things straight: I don't see identity as a general concept as inherently related to Fi. But I think what one perceives as an attack on identity may be type-related. Not everyone sees hurting someone's feelings as "wounding their sense of self" (even if they are sensitive to criticism and at the same time value their sense of identity). It's the correlation between the two that made me think of Fi. But I don't know - maybe other feelers also see it that way.

Just a side remark though, as it doesn't seem that important to the overall discussion.

[justalitnerdxx]

I think that happens to everyone, I've never met anyone who really gives grass a careful look-over before sitting down. Be careful not to assume too much is type-related, it's a common mistake a lot of people who are new to and fascinated by typology fall into. People who read type into too many situations often end up with a "everyone is 16 hyper-stereotyped cookie-cutter boxes" view of typology. I think it leads to things like the above example of attributing near-superpower level abilities to one type or another, not grounding typology in "what are the real differences I see in the people around me" can kinda dangerously disconnect someone from reality.

Agreed. I mean no one really studies the grass that closely right? Except if your job is Resident Gardiner/Grass Obsessive Officiando haha...

No one really fits in a cookie cutter and a lot of traits and anecdotes can be chalked up to all of the 16 types really. From experience, in another group I was told I was 'So SEI!' purely because the member had used 'well you mention you like having hot drinks in a cafe while writing'. Basically, if you like cake or tea then you're SEI. Of if you like running people over in monster trucks then you're SLE

[justalitnerdxx]

Not necessarily but I always say constructive criticism is worth your time, somebody just being a sadistic little shit is not. You can just tell how heartfelt they are being with human insight usually. How much they are trying to critique your work vs how much they are are trying to critique your inherent human soul and goodness.

I am shy too. Probably shyer than you. (Can we have a shy-off?) I sat by myself in high school and had 0 friends and was basically a male Carrie. =) You do sound delta though, the opposite of my quadra regardless.

How does one 'Shy Off?' I presume it's the opposite of Pose Off; with less sass and more tears of embarrassment :0
in school I had a few friends. Not real close aside from one; I'm still in touch with her. The rest were tense acquaintances who found me odd and funny cause I was shy and really frigid around guys. Not real friends but I suppose high school in itself isn't somewhere I'd wish to go back to.

[justalitnerdxx]

@Nanooka Just to get things straight: I don't see identity as a general concept as inherently related to Fi. But I think what one perceives as an attack on identity may be type-related. Not everyone sees hurting someone's feelings as "wounding their sense of self" (even if they are sensitive to criticism and at the same time value their sense of identity). It's the correlation between the two that made me think of Fi. But I don't know - maybe other feelers also see it that way.

Just a side remark though, as it doesn't seem that important to the overall discussion.

Ill agree that the truth is identity isn't the same as Fi. I do see though too many attacks on my identity, or the things I associate with loving so much that they become a part of my reality aka a certain story, a code I was inspired by and live by. Realistically I know I'm being overly defensive and too sensitive. But instinctively I feel unsettled, as if my values and affections are wrong or mockable.