LTRs with Conflictors?

[scio]

Hey guys... So I'm finally admitting today (after a long, long period of denial) that I've been in a serious relationship with my conflictor.
I never felt like we were on the same page about anything and it was exhausting having to always explain my motives behind literally everything. He wanted to talk about things I never wanted to talk about and vice versa etc. He would get upset at me being me and I would try to play it off like it never bothered me but it did blah blah blah


Anyways I'd like to make it into a topic

Okie so.. wondering about anyone's experiences spending extended amounts of time with their conflictors?

I always felt like my brain was being slightly shut off... like because I was confused and couldn't do anything the way I normally could I just was sort of frozen in time. I knew I wasn't being myself but I also couldn't generate anything to say around him bc I was getting no external information. We had a lot of silence. Everything was about him and he basically was comfortable not knowing anything about me. He always got angry because he felt like I should have just volunteered information, but I need to know people actually want to get to know me. I'm not going to talk about anything unless I think you want to hear it, that's a principle I stand by for myself.

I don't want to vent so much, though. I'd rather hear about other people's experiences.

Also... my parents are Betas. Does anyone find if they had problems with a parent that they seek out partners of that same type or type with the same values?
This is basic psych101 but it's interesting to consider how type comes into the mix.

This is probably already in a thread but I'm too lazy to look it up


In addition, I would also like to add the benefits of dating your conflictor (and I would like to hear others on this as well):
-You can see your worst self (and grow rapidly from it)
-You develop an extremely strong center through the friction and turmoil
-You get strong/you realize nobody can hurt you anymore
-You try harder to empathize with things you wouldn't normally want to

So, in short, you build tons of character from being with your conflictor. I don't regret a single thing.

I'm going away to a different area from where I live for the summer, so hopefully that will give us space and time to heal/move on from each other bc we were pretty horrible to one another despite having a strong bond between us. It was too rocky to ever build trust.

[Chae]

Socionics aside, you sure it's not him being very shitty and controlling instead? Don't let theory cloud your vision on relationships. Sounds like he screwed up big time since you're taking blame, trying to smooth it over, shifting the topic to others, generalizing, talk about denial... which is not a good sign.

I never felt like we were on the same page about anything and it was exhausting having to always explain my motives behind literally everything. He wanted to talk about things I never wanted to talk about and vice versa etc. He would get upset at me being me and I would try to play it off like it never bothered me but it did blah blah blah

I always felt like my brain was being slightly shut off... like because I was confused and couldn't do anything the way I normally could I just was sort of frozen in time. I knew I wasn't being myself but I also couldn't generate anything to say around him bc I was getting no external information. We had a lot of silence. Everything was about him and he basically was comfortable not knowing anything about me. He always got angry because he felt like I should have just volunteered information, but I need to know people actually want to get to know me. I'm not going to talk about anything unless I think you want to hear it, that's a principle I stand by for myself.

I don't want to vent so much, though. I'd rather hear about other people's experiences.

In addition, I would also like to add the benefits of dating your conflictor (and I would like to hear others on this as well):
-You can see your worst self (and grow rapidly from it)
-You develop an extremely strong center through the friction and turmoil
-You get strong/you realize nobody can hurt you anymore
-You try harder to empathize with things you wouldn't normally want to

So, in short, you build tons of character from being with your conflictor. I don't regret a single thing.

I'm going away to a different area from where I live for the summer, so hopefully that will give us space and time to heal/move on from each other bc we were pretty horrible to one another despite having a strong bond between us. It was too rocky to ever build trust.

All sounds pretty abusive on his side, and don't come with the vice versa argument, or trying the socionics move. You know this is one-sided. You're trying hard to make it look like it's not but see through that, it's a defense mechanism. Would he say all of this in return? I bet not. He's not necessarily a conflictor, and that doesn't even matter, just a bad person who harmed you and hence you showed the reaction you did, then finding fault in yourself which is bullshit. I hope you recover well and stay away from this asshole. Forgive to find peace but still curse him, he's inferior to make you feel this way.

[Adam Strange]

Relationships are hard.

You might find a dual who isn't right for you for one reason or another.

You might find a conflictor who is right for you in many ways.

A big part of relationships is figuring out what you want (and whether or not getting what you want is even good for you, because we often want what is not good for us) and figuring out what you will accept.

I know that when I was married to my Supervisor, there were a lot of things that I really liked about her, and some fewer things that I did not like. The decision to divorce was made after weighing the fact that we both loved each other but couldn't live with each other.

Neither one of us was willing to make the long term compromises in ourselves which would have been necessary to stay together.
(The OP touched on this question: Do I have to give up being me to be with you?)

I filed for divorce when the future prospects of staying together were worse than the certainty of being apart.

[Chae]

Relationships are hard.

For you, not in general. We know your history. Success really depends on the case. There's hope and darkness alike.

[Sommerregen]

Okie so.. wondering about anyone's experiences spending extended amounts of time with their conflictors?

My grandmother is LSI. When I was younger we’d constantly fight, she’d slap me every time I disobeyed some of her rules. My grandfather is ESE and when he wanted to make some journeys and I would try to make suggestions, my grandmother would get defensive and angry (omg possibilities, quick I need to put my head in the sand). The older I got the more I toned back and to keep the peace and have a harmonious relationship with her I’d just shut my mouth as soon as I felt that I am about to overstep some boundaries. Worked pretty well so far, there’s still a certain uneasiness between us, but no fighting anymore. She still tries to drill me in line, I just listen and nod and as soon as she's gone, I do whatever I like again.
As long as one of the parties is wise enough to yield sometimes, you can have shallow but harmonious relations.

I really wonder how you'd get into a romantic relationship with your conflictor ? LSI girls hate me from the first second they see me and always give me death stares as soon as I am in their 5 mile radius. I get the message and just stay away from them. It’s like we both instinctively know we couldn’t stand each other. That said I have no clue how someone could mistake a LSI for a SLI or vice versa. They are so inherently different.

Also ... my parents are Betas. Does anyone find if they had problems with a parent that they seek out partners of that same type or type with the same values?
This is basic psych101 but it's interesting to consider how type comes into the mix.

My EIE-Fe sister, whose parents and two brothers are all deltas always ends up with Ne/Si guys and usually get's rid of them after 6-18 months again. Rinse, repeat. She's currently 20 and already at #7. Still, better for me if she doesn't find a LSI .

Socionics aside, you sure it's not him being very shitty and controlling instead? Don't let theory cloud your vision on relationships. Sounds like he screwed up big time since you're taking blame, trying to smooth it over, shifting the topic to others, generalizing, talk about denial... which is not a good sign.

All sounds pretty abusive on his side, and don't come with the vice versa argument, or trying the socionics move. You know this is one-sided. You're trying hard to make it look like it's not but see through that, it's a defense mechanism. Would he say all of this in return? I bet not. He's not necessarily a conflictor, and that doesn't even matter, just a bad person who harmed you and hence you showed the reaction you did, then finding fault in yourself which is bullshit. I hope you recover well and stay away from this asshole. Forgive to find peace but still curse him, he's inferior to make you feel this way.

That’s true, but before throwing stones you shouldn’t forget that this is her version of the story…

[Adam Strange]

So, in short, you build tons of character from being with your conflictor. I don't regret a single thing.

Someone once said, “If you want to be happy, marry a Dual. If you want to be a Philosopher, marry a Conflictor.”

All sounds pretty abusive on his side.

What the OP described was a constant turning away from her on the part of her BF when she asked him for attention. And yes, that is abusive.

Why did he turn away?

He might have been immature and not known what it takes to be in a relationship, or he might have been warped early in his life into being a really bad guy, or he might not be getting the things he needs from her to keep his interest. We don’t have enough info to make a determination, although the benefit of the doubt and my sympathies are with Virtu. I’ve seen conflictors act harshly with each other, and yet magically transform into warm, caring, involved people when they are with duals.

This business of turning toward a partner when they make a bid for attention is the whole rationale for calling Duality the best relationship in Socionics, and is the foundation of all long tern relationships. If you turn away from someone too often, they see that they can’t rely on you when they really need you. Sharing values and supporting each other effortlessly are what Duals are most able to do for each other, and are what Conflictors are least able to do.

Personally, I sometimes think that my marriage to my Supervisoer failed because we were not really able to get what we needed from (or significantly influence) each other.

Relationships are hard.

For you, not in general. We know your history. Success really depends on the case. There's hope and darkness alike.

It is true that I’ve fallen down a few times, but I keep getting back up, and I’m determined to do better. Both for me and for my partner.

[Adam Strange]

I once described an LSI GF in what I thought were glowing terms to an IEE acquaintance, and the IEE said "I don't think we'd get along." Lol. Instant recognition of Conflict.
Prior to that, I hadn't realized the two types are Conflictors.

[Chae]

@Adam Strange @Sommerregen You didn't get the point.

[Sommerregen]

@Adam Strange @Sommerregen You didn't get the point.

I do understand what you meant and it's likely the best for her to get away from him, simply because he makes her feel bad. That doesn't make him a bad or evil person per se, you never know how he saw the whole subject, what was going on in his head, what problems he had otherwise, etc...

[Adam Strange]

My grandmother is LSI. When I was younger we’d constantly fight, she’d slap me every time I disobeyed some of her rules. My grandfather is ESE and when he wanted to make some journeys and I would try to make suggestions, my grandmother would get defensive and angry (omg possibilities, quick I need to put my head in the sand). The older I got the more I toned back and to keep the peace and have a harmonious relationship with her I’d just shut my mouth as soon as I felt that I am about to overstep some boundaries. Worked pretty well so far, there’s still a certain uneasiness between us, but no fighting anymore. She still tries to drill me in line, I just listen and nod and as soon as she's gone, I do whatever I like again.
As long as one of the parties is wise enough to yield sometimes, you can have shallow but harmonious relations.

I really wonder how you'd get into a romantic relationship with your conflictor ?

My LSE younger sister married an IEI male. He was a great friend of mine in Jr HS, and we’d hang out together (along with an ESI male) at my parents house when we were kids. Since my sister was three years younger than us, we’d pretty much ignore her, but she once told me that as soon as she saw him, she was determined to marry him.
Fast forward twelve years, my IEI buddy has dropped out of college, has had a few spectacular romantic failures, and has been living in his parent’s basement all summer without a job and without a future. My LSE sister has a pharmacist’s job, is making six figures, and goes to see him. She proposes marriage (have you ever seen how LSE’s kind of go for what they want without much foresight?), he declines, she gives him a 30-day ultimatum that if he doesn’t decide by then, she’ll never ask him again. Twenty five days later he rides his bike over to our parent’s house and accepts.
Their marriage has been an incredible disaster since then. To see them together is to see two people trapped in a jail cell who don’t even like each other.
I should mention that my LSE sister was extremely abused, mentally and physically, by our mother as a kid, and when I asked her what caused her to marry the IEI, she said she saw in him a guy who could navigate trouble and was adamant in his beliefs.

LSI girls hate me from the first second they see me and always give me death stares as soon as I am in their 5 mile radius. I get the message and just stay away from them. It’s like we both instinctively know we couldn’t stand each other. That said I have no clue how someone could mistake a LSI for a SLI or vice versa. They are so inherently different.

My EIE-Fe sister, whose parents and two brothers are all deltas always ends up with Ne/Si guys and usually get's rid of them after 6-18 months again. Rinse, repeat. She's currently 20 and already at #7. Still, better for me if she doesn't find a LSI [IMG]file:///C:\Users\Owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image001.gif[/IMG].

Chicken. Do the right thing and hand her a book on Socionics.

That’s true, but before throwing stones you shouldn’t forget that this is her version of the story…

[Chae]

I do understand what you meant and it's likely the best for her to get away from him, simply because he makes her feel bad. That doesn't make him a bad or evil person per se, you never know how he saw the whole subject, what was going on in his head, what problems he had otherwise, etc...

Would it erase her words? His issues, his problems, no need to hurt her! If you say this, you're on his side.

[Persephone]

My mother is an LSE. I get along with her way better now than during all my life. Being an adult makes you grow.

[Olimpia]

Based on this very little insight, he could be any type besides a Delta. People have issues and conflicts with non-Conflictors (esp. with Supervision), too. There are a lot of breakups and divorces, and I am pretty sure most of them do not even include a Conflict match. So there's that.

Also... my parents are Betas. Does anyone find if they had problems with a parent that they seek out partners of that same type or type with the same values?
This is basic psych101 but it's interesting to consider how type comes into the mix.

This is probably already in a thread but I'm too lazy to look it up

That's basically your Imago. We've got Imago threads here and here.

I've been growing up/living with my LSE dad for a considerable amount of time, so I think I am qualified to go through your points and add my two cents.

You can see your worst self (and grow rapidly from it)

I can see my worst self, yes. Rapid growth? On the contrary. There is no growth in Conflict. If there is any growth, it is excruciatingly slow, and not worth mentioning. I think Conflict actually holds you back and makes you regress in life and in your development. If it does not make you go backwards, it will slow you down a lot.

You develop an extremely strong center through the friction and turmoil

I cannot say that this applies to me. On the contrary, I think it has weakened my inner center a lot. It takes a lot of conscious effort to not let Conflict get to you, especially if you are an IxFx Type 4 like myself.

You get strong/you realize nobody can hurt you anymore

This might apply to some cases. I think that would apply the best to someone who has moved on from a Conflict situation or relationship.

You try harder to empathize with things you wouldn't normally want to

Maybe. I find it is rather easy to grow to dislike or even disdain your Conflictor over time (on a close basis). Again, it takes conscious effort to understand the person and try to be empathetic. If you don't make the effort, you'll simply see them as being a horrible person who is just doing everything wrong or not how you want to.

Bottom-line, I do not think anyone should have to experience a Conflict relationship of any kind for a long time and on a close level. If you have a Conflict relative/friend/roommate you don't see much or with whom you only hangout on a superficial, activity-focused level, it can be fine. Beyond that, when you try to get more "intimate" or when it comes to anything more personal, it's just painful.

[Sommerregen]

Would it erase her words? His issues, his problems, no need to hurt her! If you say this, you're on his side.

This time you didn’t get my point . If she feels hurt and treated badly she should get way from him and that’s totally valid. Nonetheless that doesn’t make him an evil sod, since we don’t know anything about his perspective. Btw I think you’re right with being Fi sub, and I think I am actually the Ne sub.
I just wanted to say that one persons perspective isn't enough to judge a third person solely from that.

My LSE younger sister married an IEI male. He was a great friend of mine in Jr HS, and we’d hang out together (along with an ESI male) at my parents house when we were kids. Since my sister was three years younger than us, we’d pretty much ignore her, but she once told me that as soon as she saw him, she was determined to marry him.
Fast forward twelve years, my IEI buddy has dropped out of college, has had a few spectacular romantic failures, and has been living in his parent’s basement all summer without a job and without a future. My LSE sister has a pharmacist’s job, is making six figures, and goes to see him. She proposes marriage (have you ever seen how LSE’s kind of go for what they want without much foresight?), he declines, she gives him a 30-day ultimatum that if he doesn’t decide by them, she’ll never ask him again. Twenty five days later he rides his bike over to our parent’s house and accepts.
Their marriage has been an incredible disaster since then. To see them together is to see two people trapped in a jail cell who don’t even like each other.
I should mention that my LSE sister was extremely abused, mentally and physically, by our mother as a kid, and when I asked her what caused her to marry the IEI, she said she saw in him a guy who could navigate trouble and was adamant in his beliefs.

Ouch, your poor sister. It's so awful if people who had a troublesome childhood get hit by 'fate' again when they are grown up. Just imagine her with a cute EII, but I guess she doesn't consider other options than him ?
I generally find I kind of sad how people stay so long in toxic relations, there a millions of potential better matches out here.

Chicken. Do the right thing and hand her a book on Socionics.

Lol, you're probably right, it's just that I can't stand any of the LSIs I know. Maybe I'll sneak a LII-Ti in there... That said, she doesn't really trust my opinion. Probably worth a try, maybe you just saved my sister's love life

[Adam Strange]

Ouch, your poor sister. It's so awful if people who had a troublesome childhood get hit by 'fate' again when they are grown up. Just imagine her with a cute EII, but I guess she doesn't consider other options than him ?
I generally find I kind of sad how people stay so long in toxic relations, there a millions of potential better matches out here.

I've given this a lot of thought, since I've been diverted from my own duals myself by early training.
Personally, I think she would like an EII guy. But her childhood was so non-affirming of who she was, that a Conflict relationship seems right at home. And who doesn't like home, flaws and all?

When I was dating an IEI after she had left (or been kicked out of) a relationship with a wealthy LSE guy, when it became clear that things were not going to work out between us, I told her that I wasn't the best guy for her. (I was new at socionics and was still trying to sail into the wind.) I told her she was like a person who had been eating road kill all her life (LSE) and now she discovered hamburger (LIE). But there is steak out there (SLE).

Lol, you're probably right, it's just that I can't stand any of the LSIs I know. Maybe I'll sneak a LII-Ti in there... That said, she doesn't really trust my opinion. Probably worth a try, maybe you just saved my sister's love life

Thanks. Happiness is just better for everyone.

When she is with an LSI, she'll be happy and fully occupied. I doubt if you'll see them much except at family get-togethers, where no one really expects to be happy.

[Chae]

This time you didn’t get my point . If she feels hurt and treated badly she should get way from him and that’s totally valid. Nonetheless that doesn’t make him an evil sod, since we don’t know anything about his perspective. Btw I think you’re right with being Fi sub, and I think I am actually the Ne sub.
I just wanted to say that one persons perspective isn't enough to judge a third person solely from that.

Nah. Even if his perspective is equally tragic, he's bad and dangerous, cause look what he's done. Re-read the red parts again. You can safely conclude that this thing wasn't even half as mutual as it is perpetuated here in the context of conflictors. One perspective is enough when all the signals are there, and it doesn't minimize the harm, period. If you care, you give priority, and shelter. The humane thing to do now is making her feelings okay and give her the healing space she needs :/ I mean what else can you do?

Thank @Cassandra, my gurl has a sharp eye for these things

Something else that's noteworthy. Enneagram-wise, you probably fix at 9, they want to everybody's perspective to be heard esp under the premise of lead. Wing is probably 1, they value universal fairness and hate when they get called evil, they project this on others they sympathize with. Contrast the 8 take on it: I see harm, enforce protection for the person I see was taken advantage of and strive to achieve punishment for abuse; as my action space here is limited, it's exposing them as the bad perpetrator which is the truth. Also, my their side/that side mentality, it's quite prototypical how it plays out

[Sommerregen]

Nah. Even if his perspective is equally tragic, he's bad and dangerous, cause look what he's done. Re-read the red parts again. You can safely conclude that this thing wasn't even half as mutual as it is perpetuated here in the context of conflictors.

Now twist it around. What if he feels the same (for different reasons obviously) and complains about it on a different internet forum. Do you know what I mean, unless you’ve seen every facet, you can’t make clear conclusions. If I knew them both personally very well, it would be rather easy to come to a judgement, but in this case... No not really.

One perspective is enough when all the signals are there, and it doesn't minimize the harm, period. If you care, you give priority, and shelter. The humane thing to do now is making her feelings okay and give her the healing space she needs :/ I mean what else can you do?

Relying on a single opinion can lead to witch hunts. Subjectively you're right, I do feel sorry for her and hope she copes well with it. Objectively speaking I simply don't know the whole story.

We could argue for ages here, let’s just conclude that our opinions slightly differ on the subject at hand.

You won’t take my 9-ness away, Chae ;P

Thank @Cassandra, my gurl has a sharp eye for these things

Something else that's noteworthy. Enneagram-wise, you probably fix at 9, they want to everybody's perspective to be heard esp under the premise of lead. Wing is probably 1, they value universal fairness and hate when they get called evil, they project this on others they sympathize with. Contrast the 8 take on it: I see harm, enforce protection for the person I see was taken advantage of and strive to achieve punishment for abuse; as my action space here is limited, it's exposing them as the bad perpetrator which is the truth. Also, my their side/that side mentality, it's quite prototypical how it plays out

Well spotted, I identify a lot with 9w1, sometimes I even think its my main type, but I doubt I am a core withdrawn type. That said I am either 7w6-9w1-x or 9w1-7w6-x, don’t have much of a heart fix at all, probably 3w2. That said, we should stop derailing this thread

Also contra-flow vs syn-flow me thinks.

[Bertrand]

conflictors you care about and are generally in some type of relationship you must/want to make work (parents, coworkers, etc) are generally hard on self esteem, but I've noticed you don't fully appreciate it until you get in a better environment and the cloud lifts so to speak. I feel like abuse is another issue, but even without abuse, I feel like you can feel exactly like vertu describes just from getting beat up unintentionally by interacting with conflictor or other difficult intertype relations. the pain is amplified when by nature you're one to take responsibility for it. you think of all the ways to make it better, and it can help, but its still an energy drain at the end of the day and its hard not to shake the resentment when you're around people where it flows easily and, I know at least for me, the tendency is to say the people I like are "healthier" and the people I don't aren't, but its more like its "healthier" for me to be around certain people rather than others and it can be a kind of introvert projection onto others when its really just my introverted perception of how things are making me feel. sometimes people really are more or less healthy than others though. sometimes the healthiest thing is to grow from interacting with "energy draining" relations, i.e.: ones that take greater concerted effort. but on the whole I sympathize with the unavoidable difficulty in these relations and can also see how easy it is to read into it

I don't want to go line by line but I want Vertu to know I very much sympathize with a lot of she's describing and to say she's not crazy to be picking up on all that because its a very good description of what I also feel like when I'm close with asymmetric or otherwise difficult relations (especially the part of being "half-there" or having a part of brain shut off)

[Olimpia]

I don't want to go line by line but I want Vertu to know I very much sympathize with a lot of she's describing and to say she's not crazy to be picking up on all that because its a very good description of what I also feel like when I'm close with asymmetric or otherwise difficult relations (especially the part of being "half-there" or having a part of brain shut off)

And that's why I find the ITR theory valuable; because it can put into perspective those interactions with certain people that for some mysterious reasons are just negative. There are negative interactions which revolve around the fact you have different non-Socionics values; like, as a Vegan you could have a disdain for a certain individual who looks down on Veganism and is a full-blown Carnivore. Or you as a Democrat could get into conflict with a Republican; or you as an Atheist could get into conflict with a devout Believer; or you as a feminist could get into conflict with a misogynist etc etc... Those "conflicts" can occur between all kinds of types, not just opposite Quadra ones but also with adjacent Quadra ones (and possibly even with same Quadra people).

But then there are those relationships where everything else would fit; you have similar values, similar likes and dislikes even, but for some reason you end up butting heads over stuff in a painful fashion (reminds me of my interaction with my Conflictor dad, and Supervision experiences). And it is hard when you otherwise love or like the person; it becomes a painful tug and pull between your positive and negative feelings for them – eventually, you'll have to decide which side to give in to.

I'm pretty sure that most stories which talk about "toxic people" or "energy vampires" are about unhealthy Conflictors and Supervisors/Supervisees (and sometimes unhealthy ExFx types who are overly emotional and manipulative). The only way to deal with those people is to avoid them. You can seek out a conversation and try to reconcile things, but usually it won't work. Your differences aren't something you can resolve by talking about it. Your personality types are inherently incompatible. You can make the most of your relationship; but there will be limits, and the struggle may very well not be worth it. If the "bad" outweighs the "good", you should probably move on or at least distance yourself from the person.

I don't think you need to be with your Dual to have a relatively harmonious relationship; but you do need to at least to be in adjacent Quadras for a good romantic relationship, in my opinion. Opposite Quadra interactions can be okay on a friendship-level only, but should be avoided for anything more than that.

[niffer]

Good summary of what happens in conflict LTRs and good on you for being able to pack up from it and learn and move along so well @vertu . I dated my conflictor for 2 years too and the result seemed to be similar.

Based on the pics he really could've been SLI. I did say he looked LSI to me before, but something was a bit "off" too, like I got a much stronger beta vibe from you than from him.

[scio]

Thanks everyone for the feedback @Chae I appreciate the tough love. I do have to say though it wasn't abusive in a general sense. He tried really hard to make me happy but simply couldn't give me what I needed and I could tell I wasn't giving him what he needed as well. He wanted me to be outwardly strong and I couldn't be that person, it was too much pressure. I wanted to be excited about things and emotional and he couldn't handle it. It really was a function issue, I know I'm just not explaining it well.
We could not give each other the right things. It wasn't simple; it was a confusion that we both experienced because although there was plenty of care between us, we felt no security with one another based on different value systems.
@Adam Strange Thanks Adam. I agree and I'm also really sorry about your younger sister. I hope she finds an EII soon
It's just so easy to fall into toxic relationships when it's your comfort.
@Sommerregen Yeah exactly, it was clear that we were both experiencing mutual disappointment but he never wanted to be honest about it or confront it. The more space we had from each other the better things got. It really was not abusive, I hope this comes across. He did nothing on purpose to hurt me at all. It just happened naturally because he felt that so many things that were so important to me were unnecessary to him. It was a difference in values.
@Cassandra The growth occurred the most when we had a good amount of space in our relationship. I started to realize that there was nothing at all wrong with me or him. He just wanted to have fun and take nothing seriously and I wanted to have good conversation and talk about substantial things. It could have I guess been any bad ITR but the info on a conflict relation struck a chord w me

[scio]

@Bertrand Yes We seem to usually be on the same page lol
It was hard because we both felt so helpless. We wanted to be good to each other but we just kept acting in a way that was the opposite of what the other person needed. There was nothing we could do to improve this. We cared so much about one another but it was so stressful and difficult. His way of viewing things made me think he was an alien. I felt like completely and totally alone.
@niffer I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Wow, mine was 2 years too. It took that long to just realize there are things not salvageable. Sigh I just want to find a partner that doesn't get angry everytime I am openly emotional or excited about something. It's not fair that I had to be "perfect" and act in a way just to make him comfortable. I want to act authentically. Why wouldn't you want to be excited about THINGggGGSsss?!?!

[Raver]

Generally speaking, a good rule of thumb is that while duality is not guaranteed success because of other non-Socionics related factors, a conflicting relationship is pretty much a guaranteed failure. Socionics is a piece of the puzzle or a part of the equation to long term relationship success, nothing more and nothing less.

Looking at it as the holy grail for relationship compatibility or thinking Socionics is completely irrelevant is the wrong to look at it, plain and simple IMO. It is entirely possible that your partner is either a dual that isn't compatible with you because of non-Socionics related reasons or he is simply your conflictor along with other possibilities.

[Jarno]

In addition, I would also like to add the benefits of dating your conflictor (and I would like to hear others on this as well):
-You can see your worst self (and grow rapidly from it)
-You develop an extremely strong center through the friction and turmoil
-You get strong/you realize nobody can hurt you anymore
-You try harder to empathize with things you wouldn't normally want to

So, in short, you build tons of character from being with your conflictor. I don't regret a single thing.

yeah been in two conflictor relationship. First one when i was young, it was all conflict, I'm glad nobody got killed.

Though later on I was in a conflict relationship but there was little conflict, cause I kinda new which road not to go, and better how to avoid conflict.

You can learn a lot, and if you keep a distance the relationship is besides a bit exhausting, also comfortable. Also subtype matter, having both producing subtypes in my case, probably took the energy of the conflicting first function and also matching subtypes is best in conflictor.

I also know 2 couples who are conflictors and still together, all are producing subtypes.

[scio]

@Jarno Yeah literally haha it's terrifying because you don't necessarily know how the other person will react to anything-- in general. It was exhausting to constantly be avoiding the conflict. I completely agree. Wow I can only imagine how the two couples you know are like. I hope the couples are able to cope/or move on.

[niffer]

@niffer I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Wow, mine was 2 years too. It took that long to just realize there are things not salvageable. Sigh I just want to find a partner that doesn't get angry everytime I am openly emotional or excited about something. It's not fair that I had to be "perfect" and act in a way just to make him comfortable. I want to act authentically. Why wouldn't you want to be excited about THINGggGGSsss?!?!

Thanks vertu. It's alright, right after that relationship ended I found a great dual, and so did he -- happily ever after for the both of us. It was like after finding out exactly what it was that I didn't want, I was able to attract what I did want. I wish all the same fortune to you too!

[scio]

@niffer I definitely understand that. I feel like when you're in an extreme situation like that it forces you to look directly and what you need because it's so obvious you're not getting it. Happy for you! And thanks

[Rebelondeck]

I've never thought that type differences were direct causes of conflict; personal baggage, lack of tolerance and immaturity seemed to have always been the culprits. Now people do have a propensity to attract type-specific baggage and when certain types of baggage mix, there's conflict. However, I've seen examples of most type-combinations that were conflict free (including conflictor-types) and other examples that failed miserably (including duals). I think that one has to look well beyond type differences to ascertain the real destructive factors in a perfect storm.......

a.k.a. I/O

[Jarno]

@Jarno Yeah literally haha it's terrifying because you don't necessarily know how the other person will react to anything-- in general. It was exhausting to constantly be avoiding the conflict. I completely agree. Wow I can only imagine how the two couples you know are like. I hope the couples are able to cope/or move on.

I think in some cases a conflictor can be a kind of guardian angel. Who is very usefull some very specific times. And maybe that is also the attraction in the beginning. But living together with a guardian angel is weird.

My dual (SEE) can take care of social situations, but when no dual around my conflictor (ESE) can also take charge if they see me in need of help. So that's how i thought about the guardian angel thing, but this is just my hunch, not necesseraly true :-)

[Jarno]

I've never thought that type differences were direct causes of conflict; personal baggage, lack of tolerance and immaturity seemed to have always been the culprits. Now people do have a propensity to attract type-specific baggage and when certain types of baggage mix, there's conflict. However, I've seen examples of most type-combinations that were conflict free (including conflictor-types) and other examples that failed miserably (including duals). I think that one has to look well beyond type differences to ascertain the real destructive factors in a perfect storm.......

a.k.a. I/O

Yes I agree, I used to say, that disorders were more important than socionics when it came to defining a relationship. But when both partners are healthy, socionics works according to the descriptions.

[Olimpia]

I think in some cases a conflictor can be a kind of guardian angel. Who is very usefull some very specific times. And maybe that is also the attraction in the beginning. But living together with a guardian angel is weird.

The guardian angel thing applies best to Supervisors, not really to Conflictors.

[Rebelondeck]

Yes I agree, I used to say, that disorders were more important than socionics when it came to defining a relationship. But when both partners are healthy, socionics works according to the descriptions.

By the word baggage, I was referring to accumulated biases, prejudices, beliefs, lacks of trust, prejudgements, self-images, etc. and not necessarily disorders. I have noted that so-called conflictors get along well when both have few preconceived notions and are fairly open to new ideas and processes. However, it's difficult to get through life without scars; and it seems that under the same set of negative circumstances, different types scar differently (and somewhat predictability) but it's the scars that are the seeds of real conflict. By the word conflict, I'm referring to destructive behaviour and not the simple disagreements that any two normal people will have. I look at destructive intertype relations as essentially third order effects.

a.k.a. I/O

[Jeremy8419]

FWIW, verta, your speaking patterns are super ESI.

You reframed your understandings on socionics concerning stuff with your ex. You may want to consider reframing it with my viewpoint. Few more angles on a situation never hurt.

[scio]

@Jeremy8419 Can you explain further? Plenty of ppl apply theories to their lives. Also what is your viewpoint?

[Jeremy8419]

My viewpoint is that you are an ESI and he is an LSI. Similar, but moving in opposite directions.

From an objective outsiders point of view, I scanned what you wrote, and neither I nor most men which I know would have appreciated being treated the way you described treating him. In similar cases, by experiences, I personally think, "I'm a boy. Why is this girl so obsessed with trying to make me act like a girl? It's weird."

[scio]

@Jeremy8419 either you're trolling or just a huge asshole. either way, fuck off. you have no idea what you're talking about. i'm not going to feed into this conversation further.

[Jeremy8419]

@Jeremy8419 either you're trolling or just a huge asshole. either way, fuck off. you have no idea what you're talking about. i'm not going to feed into this conversation further.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about. Other people have a right to their own viewpoints, you know. I offered my sincere viewpoint and you come back with that crap? Just because you feel one way about a situation doesn't make it right. It makes it your opinion. Why would anyone want to share their opinions or thoughts or feelings with someone who is so disrespectful to others' opinions or thoughts or feelings? That's just rude.

[scio]

@Jeremy8419 It's not about that, you've been disrespectful to people on the forum and it seems like you're trolling so I do question the authenticity of whatever you say.
Now it also feels like you're just manipulating. Idg what you're trying to do, really. Nothing I said was gendered at all, it really had nothing to do with that. That is also an incredibly misogynistic thing to say; you're assuming a whole lot. You're assuming that what I wanted to talk about had to do with gender; you're assuming that "me being me" is gendered. Don't make me an asshole. You're getting what you want, with me reacting. You skimmed what I wrote (you said it yourself) and applying literally your own inferences on such little information. To me, that is rude. Maybe that's a type difference, who knows. Either way, I'd really rather not continue down this.

[Chae]

@vertu Boy is on my ignore list already, I suggest you do that as well. In fact, more ppl should engage until his comments have zero effect anymore cause he's invisible. You are right in giving the reaction, his aim is fulfilled.

Nothing to gain --> ignore

[Jeremy8419]

@Jeremy8419 It's not about that, you've been disrespectful to people on the forum and it seems like you're trolling so I do question the authenticity of whatever you say.
Now it also feels like you're just manipulating. Idg what you're trying to do, really. Nothing I said was gendered at all, it really had nothing to do with that. That is also an incredibly misogynistic thing to do; you're assuming a whole lot. You're assuming that what I wanted to talk about had to do with gender; you're assuming that "me being me" is gendered. Don't make me an asshole. You're getting what you want, with me reacting. You skimmed what I wrote (you said it yourself) and applying literally your own inferences on such little information. To me, that is rude. Maybe that's a type difference, who knows. Either way, I'd really rather not continue down this.

No, you're still basically equating respect and moral discourse with agreement of opinion.

Are you a guy? No. Am I a guy? Yes. What you've written on here is what you sound like IMO.

Also, don't call me misogynistic as a replacement for sexist. Big difference.