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Thread: LSE? LIE? SLE? Something else?

  1. #1
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Default LSE? LIE? SLE? Something else?

    Brief backstory: I met him through online dating. He lives a ways away from me, but we've been messaging for awhile and finally met up. These are initial observations and ponderings.

    ----

    He's very intelligent, but he also has a "if I can't see it, it doesn't exist" mindset, especially when it comes to practicality. His default is that if it isn't immediately apparent and if it doesn't make logical sense, then it's questionable at best. But he also is more than smart enough to extrapolate and infer. In fact, he's very deft at it. Very quick at making mental connections. Furthermore, he uses that understanding to try to make emotionally intelligent decisions. However, I don't see him as being emotionally adept. I think he does as well as he does at being relationally sensitive (which isn't huge, but it's present at least) from a combination of experience and applying logic.

    Whenever I had an opinion or made a statement, it seems like he asked for why I thought that way, how I could back it up. And he seemed to want me to have opinions.

    ----

    He's more serious than I thought he'd be based on his punctuation style and emoji usage. Extroverted, but also cautious. Emotionally reserved, more than the average person for sure.

    I have not got much visceral emotional responsiveness from him. As in his eyes and face stayed fairly static and I could only "see" to a certain relatively shallow level. And, yet, we were still able to engage and talk for awhile. Which is weird to me and a bit puzzling.

    With most people, when I try I can make an emotional connection, even if just light and passing, it's a genuine emotional touching. When I encounter people where either I can't reach them or they close off, usually conversation doesn't really happen. Neither of us feel a need to keep trying to connect and it's all good. When I end up in a good conversation with someone, it's because we match on certain levels, including me feeling good about how they feel about me (if that makes any sense). I can "see into" them.

    In this case, he wore an emotional mask but still wanted to converse, beyond when he could have reasonably left if he wanted to. And it was genuine conversation, curiosity, exchanging of ideas, humor, etc. (although the humor was limited). So unlike most people who if there's a wall or incompatibility we just part ways, he acted like he wanted keep trying. But his face only really softened a few times. (Twice I caught the softer look when I looked up at him while perusing menus.)

    -----

    I think he only sort of cares about how others feel. Sometimes he acts like he feels he should care more, but doesn't, and that's a spot of weakness.

    All that said, he's very morally judgey. He essentially said he cares more how people feel if he sees them as being good and kind and easy to get along with. If they're trouble-makers he doesn't care at all, and might even enjoy their suffering.

    He's really big on hard work and effort being the path to success. Don't give excuses. If you're not succeeding you don't want it enough.

    ----

    Respect is a big deal.

    I was telling him about my European adventures, and he wondered about the French being disdainful of Americans. I told him that in my experience, if you at least make a good faith effort to try to speak French, they're so much happier and nicer.

    He acted doubtful so I told him an anecdote about my sister and I visiting a restaurant, trying to speak French and being treated kindly, then watching an American woman come in speaking only English and the staff's visible change in attitude toward her.

    He still seemed skeptical, so I said something along the lines of how it's a matter of respect - do you respect their culture enough to try to speak their language to them? And it's like a lightbulb went on in his head and he was all for the idea after that.

    ----

    The first part of the date felt like an interview or interrogation, haha. I didn't mind it, except I was trying to read a menu and it's hard to do both at the same time. Questions with follow up questions. Lots of data gathering, little to no focus on feelings. He did check himself at one point, realizing/observing that this approach might be off-putting.

    ----

    We delved briefly into sports. I said I have a love / sadness relationship with a local team, and that I was currently annoyed with them for getting rid of my favorite players. "Who are your favorites?" he asked. I blanked on their names, so I stalled for time by recalling "the one who goes after mascots" (and we had a brief discussion about my dislike of those masked horrors).

    "What's his name?" he asked. It took me a few seconds to recall first the player's nickname and then his real name.

    "You must not like them that much if you can't remember their names."



    -----

    We talked Fi a bit. Not using that term, of course.

    I said I like most people. He seemed surprised.

    He introduced the hypothetical scenario of us getting locked into the room with all of the current fellow diners. He said most he could get along with. A few he'd hate. And a handful he'd trust / feel close to.

    I said that with probably at least half, I could find some way to connect with and bond, to the point where they'd be practical allies, even perhaps friends. He seemed surprised again and said he was impressed by that. (I said it's just a strength I have and others have different strengths...)

    He wanted more clarity on what the bonding meant and would look like. I explained about varieties of bonds and differences of strength levels.

    He took issue with the word "bond" at that point, and seemed especially to focus on how some people glom more onto me than I onto them. I allowed for the word "attachment" as a suitable substitute in that case.

    -----

    Especially near the beginning, he would talk while looking around the room and not at me.

    ----

    He had a contained, fidgety energy. He didn't actually fidget, but I could feel that type of tension.

    -----

    He saved my life (possibly). We got to an intersection and suddenly felt his hand grabbing my arm and pulling me back. A car I hadn't seen was coming up pretty fast.

    That's not necessarily type related, but now you know more about me, lol, and how close you got to never reading this.

    -----

    With only one in-person interaction, it's very hard to make sweeping type decisions, but I'm curious if any of you have any insights or things to look for next time (if there is a next time) based on your experiences. The emotional distance thing is particularly interesting, though I'm not sure if I explained it well.

    LIEs, does this sound like it could be you? LSEs? SLEs...?
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  2. #2
    Kill4Me's Avatar
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    He is LSE-Si.

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    No Fate Pole's Avatar
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    LSE
    LSI-Se 583 5w(CP)6 8w9 3w4 Sp/Sx

    Wing name: Problem Solver. Naranjo subtype: Encastled. Narrative subtype: Castle Defender. Instinct stack name: Ascetic. Tritype archetype: Solution Master. Strong stack w/ name: Resigned Encastled Survivalist

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    glue-like mass unsuccessfull Alphamale's Avatar
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    Very bottom up person. I think delta ST is clear. LSE based on candidates.
    From me one can not demand and expect:
    • practicality of ideas;
    • punctuality and diligence;
    • consistency and completeness;
    • constant order in the home and in the workplace;
    • quality of routine work;
    • soft skills to adapt to the interlocutor.


    Anal Expulsive personality (no hyphens for you)

    So called false dual logic that actually reveals some remote potentials:
    "sure crocodiles can fly, but very, very close to the ground"
    Just think about it.

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    I'm back, assholes! Herzy's Avatar
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    I agree with LSE. Both SLE and LIE sound very off for this guy, in my opinion.
    , Se-sub
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    Arete GuavaDrunk's Avatar
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    Sounds ST, and Delta enough.
    Reason is a whore.

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kill4Me View Post
    He is LSE-Si.
    Why Si and not Te subtype?


    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    Very bottom up person. I think delta ST is clear. LSE based on candidates.
    Bottom up? If other types were open to consideration, would you pick another?



    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    I agree with LSE. Both SLE and LIE sound very off for this guy, in my opinion.
    Herzy! (it gives me warm fuzzies to see you post) Anything in particular that makes you go, "Nah, that doesn't work"?
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    Man, he sounds like such a typical straight dude and you seem like such a typical emotional woman. You can get along and be diplomatic with people and he has issues with that because of higher logical skills vs lower emotional capacity lol.
    Becky Rosen: Honestly... the only place people understood me was the message boards. They were grumpy and overly literal, but at least we shared a common passion.

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    In Transition Raver's Avatar
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    Just remember the cardinal rule, if things go very well in the long run, he is LSE. If things go terribly wrong in the long run, he is SLE and if things end up mediocre or decent then he is LIE. On a serious note, I do think he is probably LSE judging by your description.
    "Nothing happens until the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

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    IF WE INTERACTED IT WOULD BE SO AWKWARD LMAO.
    Becky Rosen: Honestly... the only place people understood me was the message boards. They were grumpy and overly literal, but at least we shared a common passion.

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullets View Post
    Man, he sounds like such a typical straight dude and you seem like such a typical emotional woman. You can get along and be diplomatic with people and he has issues with that because of higher logical skills vs lower emotional capacity lol.
    And that's unusual for me. With most men I've gone out with, and with most people actually, I feel more on the logical side of things. Though, of course, I am able to get along with people still.



    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Just remember the cardinal rule, if things go very well in the long run, he is LSE. If things go terribly wrong in the long run, he is SLE and if things end up mediocre or decent then he is LIE. On a serious note, I do think he is probably LSE judging by your description.
    Lol, yes, good rule.



    ---------------

    Some things I didn't mention before:

    He's very competitive (or so he says - I have yet to encounter it personally). He's a lawyer and his favorite part is going at it with an opposing lawyer. Though he "doesn't like beating up on the ones he respects" but it's still overall fun for him it seems.

    He got very annoyed to the point of needing to blow off steam by a judge who made a decision that he felt was based on politics and power plays as opposed to following the rule of law and justice.

    Something else that appears to motivate him in his job, though he hasn't explicitly said that it does, is a sense of outrage over the crimes of those he prosecutes, in particular the ones done to the most vulnerable and innocent.

    He's also big into health and fitness and really wants his partner to be into it as well.

    In terms of planning, he did say that when on vacations, when he's with people, he's the one saying "Ok, let's go here, do this, this is when, this is where" etc. But the last vacation he took he wasn't with anyone where he felt any sort of responsibility, so he was essentially forced to relax and he found he enjoyed it.

    But when it came to planning our date, he left a lot of the details until the last minute and even had me decide where we'd go. I can't tell yet if this is a pattern, but it did stress me out a bit.

    He hardly touched me at all on the date. Brief hugs at the beginning and end, and the occasional hand on my back to guide me when walking through some spots. Oh, and the grabbing my arm to stop me from dying, but that almost doesn't count. (The lack of touch makes me feel insecure that perhaps he doesn't find me attractive...)

    I do feel safe around him. As in, I didn't get any gut feelings saying he was dangerous to my physical safety. Not that I've had that happen much.

    I also feel intimidated. I feel unintelligent and slow for the first time in awhile. I feel somewhat like a research subject, too, now that I think about it.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

  12. #12
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullets View Post
    IF WE INTERACTED IT WOULD BE SO AWKWARD LMAO.
    I might pay to watch.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    More Delta ST
    Wut /squints/ Need to metabolize this.

    .

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    glue-like mass unsuccessfull Alphamale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Bottom up? If other types were open to consideration, would you pick another?
    I think it is quite normal for N-PoLR for logicals but from the rest of the post I think I'd rule out LSI.
    From me one can not demand and expect:
    • practicality of ideas;
    • punctuality and diligence;
    • consistency and completeness;
    • constant order in the home and in the workplace;
    • quality of routine work;
    • soft skills to adapt to the interlocutor.


    Anal Expulsive personality (no hyphens for you)

    So called false dual logic that actually reveals some remote potentials:
    "sure crocodiles can fly, but very, very close to the ground"
    Just think about it.

  15. #15
    UDP's Avatar
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    i dont see anything indicating intuition over sensing

    nor fe valuing above te in a substantial way
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    UDP's Avatar
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    he sounds rather quite like the stereotypes of lse-te no?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    frankly he seems somewhat emotoinally underdeveloped especially if he has had relationship exprience or is older than you

    i'd caution you about that

    not because im judging him but because i feel like you need someone who is more ready -to -roll than a Project
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    not because im judging him but because i feel like you need someone who is more ready -to -roll than a Project
    Men want ready to roll but women like dark complicated cases they can solve. I remember how many girls at my old job wanted their degrees in criminal justice lol.

    I was about to give her some advice of caution too but I am cynical that it would be worth it. She seems too into his dark brooding Te valuing.
    Becky Rosen: Honestly... the only place people understood me was the message boards. They were grumpy and overly literal, but at least we shared a common passion.

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    UDP's Avatar
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    are you still writing pick up artist ebooks that promise to distill the truth about what men and women really want?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    are you still writing pick up artist ebooks that promise to distill the truth about what men and women really want?
    This would give him more credibility to me than discredit him, if that's what you're attempting to do here.

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    [nevermind let's not derail the thread with this same topic 150,000 times. Let's all stay on track.]
    Last edited by Bullets; 05-18-2017 at 12:08 PM.
    Becky Rosen: Honestly... the only place people understood me was the message boards. They were grumpy and overly literal, but at least we shared a common passion.

  22. #22
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Nooooo, I want to hear your input, @Bullets


    I do see him as an intriguing puzzle, but at the same time I've got other things going on in my life that demand emotional investment, so despite the pull I'm also cognizant of my own limitations. Now is an opportune time to insert advice that might keep me from doing silly destructive things.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    Now is an opportune time to insert advice that might keep me from doing silly destructive things.
    And her fate could have been avoided... if only she had a Sassy Gay Friend!

    it just doesn't feel right. like if u try to get closer it will be dramatic and wanting him to be more intimate. if you're sexually attracted, just sex with him is fine if you can truly put your heart aside but sadly the problem with a lot of women is they are unable to do this cuz they don't compartmentalize sex like we do so i think it's probably not a good idea.

    But i hate telling people what to do and i could be wrong but what u said about him sends redflags and like he could have some mild form of antipersonality disorder...... me personally depending on how t urned on i was i'd just think of it as a quick good time and to protect my heart. ymmv.
    Becky Rosen: Honestly... the only place people understood me was the message boards. They were grumpy and overly literal, but at least we shared a common passion.

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    I'm back, assholes! Herzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Herzy! (it gives me warm fuzzies to see you post) Anything in particular that makes you go, "Nah, that doesn't work"?
    I'm alive, and I'm glad you are too!
    As for a SLE typing, the whole post made me go, "Nah, that doesn't work." There's no way I (or any of the SLEs I know) would've engaged long in a Fi conversation like that, especially on the first date. As soon as the conversation turned to respect, I would've probably subtly steered it in another direction. As for the discussion on the people in the room, I would be more likely to talk about the general "people-vibe" of those around me, or about specific things about specific people and such. Basically, there's no way the conversation would've worked the way it did if you were with a SLE.
    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

  25. #25
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullets View Post
    And her fate could have been avoided... if only she had a Sassy Gay Friend!

    it just doesn't feel right. like if u try to get closer it will be dramatic and wanting him to be more intimate. if you're sexually attracted, just sex with him is fine if you can truly put your heart aside but sadly the problem with a lot of women is they are unable to do this cuz they don't compartmentalize sex like we do so i think it's probably not a good idea.

    But i hate telling people what to do and i could be wrong but what u said about him sends redflags and like he could have some mild form of antipersonality disorder...... me personally depending on how t urned on i was i'd just think of it as a quick good time and to protect my heart. ymmv.
    Communication has dropped significantly over the last several days, so it all may be a moot point anyway.

    No, I don't compartmentalize sex at all. A little while ago I had a guy demean me because I wasn't ready to kiss him yet and I had implied I might not be for awhile. He called me archaic and essentially rules-bound, but it wasn't about rules at all for me. I simply was not feeling safe or close enough to him. Plus he wasn't super attractive to me...


    ...of course now I'm going to be wracked with "what exactly pushed him away?!" Not the "you're archaic" guy, the Te-y guy.



    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    I'm alive, and I'm glad you are too!
    As for a SLE typing, the whole post made me go, "Nah, that doesn't work." There's no way I (or any of the SLEs I know) would've engaged long in a Fi conversation like that, especially on the first date. As soon as the conversation turned to respect, I would've probably subtly steered it in another direction. As for the discussion on the people in the room, I would be more likely to talk about the general "people-vibe" of those around me, or about specific things about specific people and such. Basically, there's no way the conversation would've worked the way it did if you were with a SLE.
    Makes sense. Thank you! I can get all theoretical in my head, but it helps a ton to have real live person feedback.

    What about encouraging / pushing for performances from your date? E.g. "You like to dance? Show me some moves!"
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Communication has dropped significantly over the last several days, so it all may be a moot point anyway.

    No, I don't compartmentalize sex at all. A little while ago I had a guy demean me because I wasn't ready to kiss him yet and I had implied I might not be for awhile. He called me archaic and essentially rules-bound, but it wasn't about rules at all for me. I simply was not feeling safe or close enough to him. Plus he wasn't super attractive to me...
    Well, if he wasn't super-attractive to you, then there is no reason to worry about it.
    Don't let the guy push you into something. A healthy LSE won't do that. Or if he tries, you should be easily able to lead him to the correct path. That's what EII's do with LSE's.


    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    ...of course now I'm going to be wracked with "what exactly pushed him away?!" Not the "you're archaic" guy, the Te-y guy.
    Maybe his phone died. Maybe he's busy. Maybe he's not sure he even wants to be in a relationship with anyone. Without positive feedback, it is impossible to know.
    Long distance relationships are increasingly difficult with the cube of the distance, which is why most people marry within their zip code.

  27. #27
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Well, if he wasn't super-attractive to you, then there is no reason to worry about it.
    Don't let the guy push you into something. A healthy LSE won't do that. Or if he tries, you should be easily able to lead him to the correct path. That's what EII's do with LSE's.
    Oh, sorry I wasn't clearer, it was a completely separate guy who said that to me. I was affirming Bullets' assertion that I don't compartmentalize.

    I do find this guy (the one the thread's about) attractive, for the most part.
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    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Oh, sorry I wasn't clearer, it was a completely separate guy who said that to me. I was affirming Bullets' assertion that I don't compartmentalize.

    I do find this guy (the one the thread's about) attractive, for the most part.
    I got that part, which is why my reply is in two parts.
    How far away is the attractive guy? Meeting at least once a week makes a huge difference.

    Personally, I can go 3-4 days without contact or thinking too much about someone I like, but then give them a lot of attention when I do see them.

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I got that part, which is why my reply is in two parts.
    Ah, ok. Yeah, he didn't last long. As soon as he started putting me down I said no need to be unkind, I enjoyed our conversations, best of luck. He tried contacting me a week or so later and I ignored him. I have no patience for someone putting me down without even understanding what's going on. Plus there were other red flags. I don't regret my decision.


    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    How far away is the attractive guy? Meeting at least once a week makes a huge difference.

    Personally, I can go 3-4 days without contact or thinking too much about someone I like, but then give them a lot of attention when I do see them.
    ~2 hour drive. Not insignificant.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
    ()


    "Fairy Tales are more than true; not because they tell us that dragons exist, but because they tell us that dragons can be beaten." - G.K. Chesterton

    "Have courage and be kind." - Cinderella's mom

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