View Poll Results: What's your opinion of money?

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35. You may not vote on this poll
  • I think how much an individual earns is a good measure of their worth.

    1 2.86%
  • It's good! It lets me buy things.

    11 31.43%
  • It is the backbone of our economical system.

    5 14.29%
  • It's a neccesity, unfortunately.

    9 25.71%
  • I don't give a crap about it.

    1 2.86%
  • It is the root of all evil.

    8 22.86%
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Thread: How do you feel about money?

  1. #1
    mclane's Avatar
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    Default How do you feel about money?

    Vote/discuss.

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    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
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    Now that topic's blowing up in here I'm telling you.

    I got another option: Paper and coins that carry a lot of germs (including some attached abstract worth for creatures called humans). Guess why wealth is so sexy. Literally dirtay bills Personally, I love money. And I hate it. All the opportunities... all the oppression. But it's more the human mentality behind the system that I'm talking about, currency is just a proxy.

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    I don't like the poll being public, just saying...


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    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    I don't like the poll being public, just saying...
    Hm yeah, valid point

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    Poster Nutbag The Exception's Avatar
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    Money is something I wish I didn't have to worry about. It may not be 'the root of all evil' but it does lead to alot of societal problems. Those who lack it can resort to unethical means to get more of it. Those who have alot of it often just acquire way more than they will ever need instead of sharing it with those who need it.
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    I desire to live in a world where money is unnecessary.
    But a world that still has coins. I like coins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Money is not the root of all evil. The Bible says that the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. And it is wrong. There is plenty of evil with roots from sources other than the love of money.

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    I am obviously not an expert on finance, economy or money in general.
    I can only share what bugs me about the system and that's the following:

    Lets think of a world with two people and a bank
    The bank has 20$
    Now Person A and Person B each lend 10$ from the bank
    The bank wants its money back after a month plus 2$ interest
    After a month Person A gives 12$ to the bank. That means only 8$ dollars are left in the system
    Person B owes the bank 12$ but the 4$ that B needs simply don't exist
    That way the bank successfully creates money from nowhere
    Person B is fucked

  9. #9
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    Contrary to popular belief, we don't live in a capitalist system. We live in a corporatist oligarchy:

    “We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch

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    I don't really like that it dictates where you can live and what you can buy. That's basically it; if someone has more money, they have more options just because they have more money; not because they are better or smarter or do anything for society. And if you don't have enough money, you're screwed and have to rely on the people that do.

    It's a form of control and those that have more money than they need can extort money from those that need it. You could pay off $200,000 on a $210,000 house and suddenly miss some payments and the bank takes your house and your money and resells the house. Not only that, but you pay interest on any needed money you borrow and someone profits off that. A bank could loan money to someone for buying a car they need to work, but maybe they get laid off and now they can't make payments. Car gets repossessed and now you don't even have transportation to work and all that money you paid is gone. Or you could make all the payments, but still pay a lot more in the long run and be worse off for it. Same thing with renting. People that can afford to buy houses take advantage of those that can't. Money gets thrown away renting a place you have no stock in and all it does is line the pockets of those that already have more money than they need.

    But interest loans aren't supposed to work like that. People should only pay interest on a loan if they are making an investment with the loan and have the potential to make more money in return. Then the one loaning the money is just an investor. Of course, that doesn't stops banks from loan sharking people that need loans to survive and compete in the money jungle. They need it and greedy assholes see an opportunity to take advantage of that. One of the reasons I think I've come to hate the USA. Very few people have integrity here. But I also don't believe the rest of the world is much different. I just get so sick of money because of people taking advantage of others.

  11. #11
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    I have thought everything about money that you mentioned at some time or another except for it truly measuring somebody's worth. That is so fake to me that I want to vomit. god I almost envy people who can truly think something like that though- it seems so naive & innocent.

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    The collective sentiment is, we'd be better off without it. Is there actually anyone who doesn't think that? (If a rich member now comes along, ...)

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    Money is a quantitative system for recording debts between strangers whom you don't trust. Families don't use money within the family, and you can just run a tab or keep mental score of who owes what to whom between friends that you trust, but debts between strangers require money.

    Perhaps people who would prefer to do without money would really simply prefer to deal with family or friends whom they trust, rather than with unreliable strangers.

    I admit, that is more pleasant, but I also like my smartphone, which my sister can't make.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Money is not the root of all evil. The Bible says that the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. And it is wrong. There is plenty of evil with roots from sources other than the love of money.
    "All kinds of evil," according to most modern translations. FYI.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/e...mothy%206%3A10


    -------

    As for myself, it's a nice to have. More important is that I can live healthily and kindly and happily. Securely is reassuring, too.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    The collective sentiment is, we'd be better off without it. Is there actually anyone who doesn't think that? (If a rich member now comes along, ...)
    I personally don't think so, because some other form of "keeping score" among people would quickly come along.

    My personal take on money: it's one of the most important ways to get things done and realize your ideas in today's society (considering we're 8 billion people), thus i voted for "it's the backbone of our economic system".

    The first option doesn't make much sense, lots of people earn and lose large amounts of money every year, companies boom and then go bankrupt, a person's worth can't be based on the market's whims.
    Last edited by FDG; 05-17-2017 at 07:21 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Money is a quantitative system for recording debts between strangers whom you don't trust. Families don't use money within the family, and you can just run a tab or keep mental score of who owes what to whom between friends that you trust, but debts between strangers require money.

    Perhaps people who would prefer to do without money would really simply prefer to deal with family or friends whom they trust, rather than with unreliable strangers.

    I admit, that is more pleasant, but I also like my smartphone, which my sister can't make.
    Yep. People seem to be confusing money (currency) with material possession in general. The current money system is based on an evil and exploitative lending structure but sound money is a heck of a lot more convenient than barter. I don't see how currency itself contributes to materialism except by making it a bit easier to count and transfer wealth. But how are you going to deal with that, outlaw gold and silver too?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    I am obviously not an expert on finance, economy or money in general.
    I can only share what bugs me about the system and that's the following:

    Lets think of a world with two people and a bank
    The bank has 20$
    Now Person A and Person B each lend 10$ from the bank
    The bank wants its money back after a month plus 2$ interest
    After a month Person A gives 12$ to the bank. That means only 8$ dollars are left in the system
    Person B owes the bank 12$ but the 4$ that B needs simply don't exist
    That way the bank successfully creates money from nowhere
    Person B is fucked

  17. #17
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I personally don't think so, because some other form of "keeping score" among people would quickly come along.

    My personal take on money: it's one of the most important ways to get things done and realize your ideas in today's society (considering we're 8 billion people), thus i voted for "it's the backbone of our economic system".

    The first option doesn't make much sense, lots of people earn and lose large amounts of money every year, companies boom and then go bankrupt, a person's worth can't be based on the market's whims.
    Good answer. How do you think keeping score/having something for trade et cetera could be made ethical, or is the whole system predestined to be unbalanced and exploitative anyway since normal human dynamics are at work?

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    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Yep. People seem to be confusing money (currency) with material possession in general. The current money system is based on an evil and exploitative lending structure but sound money is a heck of a lot more convenient than barter. I don't see how currency itself contributes to materialism except by making it a bit easier to count and transfer wealth. But how are you going to deal with that, outlaw gold and silver too?
    True about the other resources, oil would be another very problematic discussion.

  19. #19
    Honorary Ballsack
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    The value of money itself is just a belief that a society shares. If everyone valued dust bunnies the same way, I would be quickly rise to the top.

    The way a person handles money says a lot about them as a person. Money itself cannot think, cannot feel, cannot be. Thoughts, beliefs, and actions revolving around money can turn reality into a stable environment or a hellish nightmare.

    Money also correlates with power.
    Important to note! People who share "indentical" socionics TIMs won't necessarily appear to be very similar, since they have have different backgrounds, experiences, capabilities, genetics, as well as different types in other typological systems (enneagram, instinctual variants, etc.) all of which also have a sway on compatibility and identification. Thus, Socionics type "identicals" won't necessarily be identical i.e. highly similar to each other, and not all people of "dual" types will seem interesting, attractive and appealing to each other.

  20. #20
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    Money is only important to me as far as how many thrills, adventures and cool gadgets it can give me. I wouldn't do something for money alone if it mean't having to live a shit life at a boring shit job.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raver View Post
    Contrary to popular belief, we don't live in a capitalist system. We live in a corporatist oligarchy:
    *corporate oligarchy

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatism

  22. #22
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    It is not that simple. Possession of money does not translate directly to possession. It gives you potential to concrete realization. Lots of it is inactive while at the same more is made. Nice imbalance.
    Overall fairness between people is reflected the same way how money is handled. Lots of blind spots.
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    I just need enough money to kickstart genetic hybridization experiments on sentient animals, which has been my dream since I was five years old. I don't respect old-fashioned ideas about the sanctity of life. I have no scientific ethics whatsoever.

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    I've loved money because of what it has bought, but I hate receiving SSI (I didn't sign up for it.) Ever since I was a young child, I spent money pretty quickly and I was materialistic (especially when I was younger), but my parents were kind of cheap despite having much higher income than the vast majority of people (they, especially my father, does poorly with comparisons, basically he'll often eschew something nicer even if it costs just a very tiny fraction of his income, wealth; e.g., they had ~$250k in income one year, but they weren't willing to spend an extra $90 at most that summer to turn the AC temperature down to a comfortable level/so that I wouldn't break out in sweat; or $10-15k extra for a vastly superior home that costed just ~2% more than and was much nicer compared to the one we live in and $15k was < 1.3% of his wealth at that time and it was a bad decision anyway because that home increased in value past CPI while the one we live in hasn't.)

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    its a medium of exchange, that's all.
    Most ppl have no idea how to set up cash-flow, usually have only 1 source of revenue aka their job and don't know how to manage assets & liabilities. This meas they eventually deepen the debt trap by getting used to a certain lifestyle & overspend, living beyond their means, mismanaging finances.

    I'm frugal as fuck, have cash flow, am good at managing assets & liabilities and I have money saved up in case of an emergency. 0 debt. I'm not materialistic tbh, but I like quality equipment. If I buy anything I do my research beforehand.

    When I turned 26 I made it a point to get my parents out of debt asap as well. So we are good at the moment.

    I guess this is why I still drive an Audi A4, year 2001 lmao. I'm leaning towards replacing it with an electric car once it rusts.
    Last edited by SGF; 06-22-2020 at 06:01 AM.

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    I feel perpetually guilty about money. I feel ashamed if I have it. I feel ashamed if I don't have it. ("have it" is always a relative statement) I feel guilty when I spend it. I fear the consequences of not having it. I feel terrible about it basically. It's always been a subject of pain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbie the Child View Post
    I desire to live in a world where money is unnecessary.
    But a world that still has coins. I like coins.
    Same.
    Coins are liked because they are pretty and difficult to look at as well as solid so they make a sound when you drop it. Paper is a symbol to me of working your ass off for paper lol
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    If only money loved me as much I love it...
    Bound upon me, rush upon me, I will overcome you by enduring your onset: whatever strikes against that which is firm and unconquerable merely injures itself by its own violence. Wherefore, seek some soft and yielding object to pierce with your darts.

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    Indifferent except in one respect, it's a measure you can use to compete against others over.
    This is the imposthume of much wealth and peace, That inward breaks, and shows no cause without Why the man dies.

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    I think a world without money would be just as bad. It's a way of commodifying resources, which will always exist. It's a material world after all. I wish people wouldn't be so obsessed with money, especially short term profit, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiteful Sisyphus View Post
    Indifferent except in one respect, it's a measure you can use to compete against others over.
    I think in the private sector, profit margins are a good measure of work efficiency, especially in commerce.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    I think in the private sector, profit margins are a good measure of work efficiency, especially in commerce.
    Sure. And all the stuff about "price signals," too. I just don't particularly care about efficiency of the work next to effectiveness toward the mission. Great margins while failing mean less than nothing to me, unless great margins become the end in themselves, which is when things get truly repulsive--empty, nihilistic, malignant.

    I'd make a poor businessman in terms of spreadsheets and account management. Efficiency is a "nice to have" thing I don't prioritize. I don't think about money except twice a month for bills + 1 time for taxes.
    This is the imposthume of much wealth and peace, That inward breaks, and shows no cause without Why the man dies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiteful Sisyphus View Post
    Sure. And all the stuff about "price signals," too. I just don't particularly care about efficiency of the work next to effectiveness toward the mission. Great margins while failing mean less than nothing to me, unless great margins become the end in themselves, which is when things get truly repulsive--empty, nihilistic, malignant.

    I'd make a poor businessman in terms of spreadsheets and account management. Efficiency is a "nice to have" thing I don't prioritize. I don't think about money except twice a month for bills + 1 time for taxes.
    Alright but you said something about competing with others, and what I meant that profit margins (especially measurable in commerce) allows one to do that in the workplace.

    I wonder how much using margins in this sense corresponds to the mission (outside of the obvious money making one, since we're talking about a business), for example delivering a quality product or helping others develop certain skills. I guess that's when it gets more complicated to measure.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Ave View Post
    Alright but you said something about competing with others, and what I meant that profit margins (especially measurable in commerce) allows one to do that in the workplace.

    I wonder how much using margins in this sense corresponds to the mission (outside of the obvious money making one, since we're talking about a business), for example delivering a quality product or helping others develop certain skills. I guess that's when it gets more complicated to measure.
    Ah. I meant just literally "I have a bigger salary than you." I'm looking at a position that would double my income and the biggest reason it's tempting is that I could smug at a co-worker I dislike on my way out the door over making more than him, now.

    EDIT: As an interesting aside, that co-worker is a Te ego type, likely ILI or SLI. The only thing he talks about more than barking at me over getting too loud with my guys is all the different investment funds he has money in, investment strategies, how much he has saved up for retirement, and telling people what they should do with their money. We mutually dislike each other pretty intensely.
    This is the imposthume of much wealth and peace, That inward breaks, and shows no cause without Why the man dies.

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    In the big picture wealth may be unfairly distributed.

    For me personally, the need for money pushed me to work, and work helped me develop my skills and character, overcoming weaknesses, contributing and helping others (If I don't need to work I would be...not a very decent person and of little use to the world). In this way, the money I receive is a direct measure of how much better I become (not rich by the way). So needing money turns out to be a good thing for me personally.

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    It's a tool.
    I can fix lamps with it.

    By fix I mean buy a new one.
    jk, it was second hand and less expensive than the cost of materials to fix it.
    I'm cheap.

    I'm tired, don't mind my awful lamp stories.

  37. #37
    ☽ the cutest type ☾ Aquamarine's Avatar
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    I guess i like having it but i also don't want to have to think about it
    Chronic "grass is always greener" syndrome




  38. #38
    Hot Scalding Gayser's Avatar
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    Money is necessary for society to function in a way that's actually the least sadistic... although everybody likes to complain how sadistic/fucked up and out of touch very wealthy elites are, it's still better than the altnerative imo and being under a commie regimen with a tyrannical dictator that has to do so many fucked up things to withhold "fairness." Your own identity won't matter, which to some people might not be a big deal but like my sister inumbra I highly value other people being able to express their unique identity.

    I was in a 'we are all one' cult for four years- and it was really fucked up and sadistic, and they all thought like they were the Good guys and totally righteous which yeah is typical of course. So while it is selfish and horrible what Mark Zuckerberg and Kim kardouchian do and whatever - still a better ideal to me than other things. And I don't even like capitalism or anything, in annoys my Te polr and I fucking hate it- so don't get me wrong, but I mean objectively I still think it's the 'best' but all systems deserve to be spat on and to ascend spiritually with IEI magic or whatever but that's beside the point.

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