yeah this is why I think idgiveaf is actually a really high emotional intelligence thinker
yeah this is why I think idgiveaf is actually a really high emotional intelligence thinker
Lol xDOriginally Posted by Bertrand
He is but so am I.
Both of these types really rub me the wrong way, and for much the same reasons:
Firstly, they think they know what's best for me, and will regularly give me unsolicited advice. They love to criticize me and point out all the various things that they feel I've done wrong (or worse, could possibly do wrong, which of course they don't actually know). They can both be passive-aggressive, spiteful and manipulative, all of which I consider to be weak and pathetic attempts to undermine me. I am the boss, I have decided what I am going to do, and there will be no questions. AT. ALL. I will figure out all the details as I go along (or just invent them), so there is no need to do it all beforehand. I never make the same mistake twice.
Secondly, they both tend to have some underlying, free-flowing anxiety about the future. This means they can become very defensive and risk-averse. I often make them feel insecure because I'm not very predictable, and regularly move from one idea to the next (as I said before), but this is always unintentional. They demand to know absolutely everything about my plans and freak out if I respond vaguely. I need their trust, but they expect to see proof right away, which often makes this an impossible task.
Thirdly, they require an insufferable degree of order and comfort around them. They are hyperfocused on detail and will spot anything, like a tuft of hair or a beer bottle, that seems to be "out of place". This leads to frequent, often acrimonious conflict. I find their obsession with perfect structure and cleanliness (ESE) or with immaculate detail and coherence in ideas/theory (LII) impossible to manage. I simply don't care for it; I see it as a waste of time, OCD and perfectionistic, I just want to do it and I know, I'm sure that I will be successful in time.
The ESE/LII will ask me "but how can you be so sure?" "How do you know? What will happen if this goes wrong?" I say to them: "Fuck, will you just shut up for once?!? I'll deal with it!" You see I much prefer to just take action, then learn and adapt as the pieces naturally fall into place. I have a mixed attitude to preparation; while I will often make general plans, templates, cues and so on, the key word here is general. I can't stand bombardment with questions or a cascade of detailed, process-related information, and alternative suggestions to a decision I've already made will deeply offend me.
I can say this: some of the arguments I've had with these types, especially ESE (LIIs usually take the hint more quickly and back off) have been unreal. My own mother is ESE and we are like oil and water.
Last edited by Spermatozoa; 10-28-2017 at 02:43 AM.
lol you did a great job of describing SEE/ILI
I suspect you are trolling, but if not, link articles. Nobody will take this claim seriously if you just post a one-liner.
Last edited by Bertrand; 10-28-2017 at 03:51 AM.
*popcorn*
Ni battle
Fe * Te
Who will win?
Place your bets guys
In my opinion, Bertrand is a clear Rational type. If you watch his interactions with me, you'll see how he compares new information (a statement I make, or some emotion I vibe) with a set of subjective principles and responds on that basis. He is defensive and usually quite indirect in his responses - see above, where he linked an unflattering video in response to a comment - which makes me think Se PoLR is more likely than Ne PoLR. I know he will react positively or negatively based on whether my behaviour aligns with the authority he values (ideology/worldview), and some of this is due to Enneagram 6 a lot of it could be put down to Fi-lead as well.
I could see him as either EII or ESI but will trust his self-typing, I've not seen a reason to question it.
Last edited by Spermatozoa; 10-28-2017 at 04:37 AM.
man why's it got to be the guy who's wrong about everything be the only one that acknowledges my type
I can dislike someone without thinking that they are stupid.man why's it got to be the guy who's wrong about everything be the only one that acknowledges my type
You seem incapable of making this distinction, and it is a weakness as you constantly underestimate other people because of it.
you're not wrong in your above post because you didn't actually say anything, "bertrand will respond in accordance with his values"-- thank you captain obvious
this is how you reason in general, say nothing, make a big production of it, invite others to challenge it, claim victory when they fail to overcome what was never there... I believe Macbeth commented on this phenomenon
that's what makes it so funny, the way you portray yourself as dispensing insight when its so patently empty in no way engenders gratitude for the confirmation
It isn't as obvious as you may think (again more evidence of Fi-lead - "how could anyone possibly not feel this way?"). Most people around the forum don't respond in the reactive, defensive way that you do, and thank God for that.
Feel free to continue this self-righteous quest to antagonize me as long as you like, but you should know this: your feelings do not represent anyone or anything except you. You are alone.
how could my feelings represent anyone but me..?
My mother constantly tells me that she's just trying to help me, and that she isn't trying to hurt my feelings. She does anyway. So it doesn't matter whether you intend the best for someone else or not. If your advice has a negative effect, you ought to adapt and adjust your approach. Otherwise you will turn yet another heart against you.We don't want to hurt feelings!!
If living with my mother taught me one thing, it was to judge people on their actions, not on their intentions.
These are self-evident observations and don't need to be mentioned let alone reinforced. I don't see how they're directly relevant.
I am sensitive enough to recognize that you mean well - but I am not some 16 year old kid on PerC who has just discovered typology, which is what you just insinuated. You are patronizing me and you have no right to do that.
Please don't preach, as you will just reinforce the very stereotype that you claim to be embarrassed by.
These events are not controversal and she has no the aim to hurt your feelings. She may help you, meanwhile you may hold some bad temporal feelings (be man). Your mother thinks as T type. It's like to get medical help, - it makes a little pain for better good.
> If living with my mother taught me one thing, it was to judge people on their actions, not on their intentions.
Judge on results you'd had if followed her opinion.
> "You are patronizing me and you have no right to do that."
There is right to do here anything what is not against the forum rules.
thats because they have Fi role, which manifests itself into being overly polite,robotic when with people they dont know well.So I have noticed a pattern with my LII friends when we are out. They go out of their way to use their Fe in public.
They are overly nice/polite to everyone we encounter. They will often seem much nicer than me. They genuinely seem very concerned with manners.
Similarly I noticed with my LSI spouse he is overly concerned with politeness and manners and in some cases has far better social skills than me.
Sometimes I am in a bad mood and it shines through.Whereas with the LSI and LII they seem very concerned not to offend anyone even if they are in a bad mood.
In regards to birthdays my LII girlfriends tend to go over the top with gifts, as they are worried they would not get enough of a gift for someone.
Anyways I find both LII and LSIs to be so sweet and it is endearing to me but I am wondering is this an Fe seeking thing? Have you noticed it?
once they are themselves the ti/ne ti/se will shine through.
Huh this describes me pretty well actually...So I have noticed a pattern with my LII friends when we are out. They go out of their way to use their Fe in public.
They are overly nice/polite to everyone we encounter. They will often seem much nicer than me. They genuinely seem very concerned with manners.
Similarly I noticed with my LSI spouse he is overly concerned with politeness and manners and in some cases has far better social skills than me.
Sometimes I am in a bad mood and it shines through.
In regards to birthdays my LII girlfriends tend to go over the top with gifts, as they are worried they would not get enough of a gift for someone.
Anyways I find both LII and LSIs to be so sweet and it is endearing to me but I am wondering is this an Fe seeking thing? Have you noticed it?
I have social anxiety, so my goal is to always come off as nice/sweet/polite as much as possible so that people deem me harmless and I don't have to worry that someone is out to get me. From a very young age, I've had an extremely tough time making friends with others, so I've always tried different ways to do so, and eventually gave up. I think I figured at age 20 that I'm probably "meant" to not have too many friends, and be alone most of my life...But naturally, the need to maintain an image to not have anyone outright dislike me is still ingrained.
I guess everyone has a different idea of who is cute and hot. A woman who is overly preoccupied with socially "correct" behaviour will clash with me, because I'm not a people pleaser. Se helps smooth the edges with an LSI, but LIIs can drive me nuts with their tendency to (paradoxically) both focus obsessively on trivial details and appear indecisive, unwilling to make a decision.So I have noticed a pattern with my LII friends when we are out. They go out of their way to use their Fe in public.
They are overly nice/polite to everyone we encounter. They will often seem much nicer than me. They genuinely seem very concerned with manners.
Similarly I noticed with my LSI spouse he is overly concerned with politeness and manners and in some cases has far better social skills than me.
Sometimes I am in a bad mood and it shines through.
I have discussed this before, but we tend to try and work on our HA function (not our suggestive so much, because it's so weak). HA use can be blunt and awkward, compared to a 3D or 4D user. LIIs, for example, are Si HA, so will often become obsessive and rigid about some comfortable, sensory routine. For example, I know an LII man who is absolutely meticulous about the way he puts butter on his bread, and the way he grills his meat. He is the most picky eater you can imagine, not spontaneous at all - so he gets very annoyed when people just dig in and eat loudly. That makes him feel violated and uncomfortable (Se PoLR).
I would use the term "nice" to describe the ESE I know. The term "nice" does not even make the top 10 to describe the LxI I know. Not that they aren't nice people. I think the better you know someone the easier it is to think they are nice to YOU.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Every ESE I have met as been pretty freaking nice. Not every LII I have met has been nice. My older LII uncle is grumpy and miserable as hell and another 19 year old LII I knew was seeing (using *cough* I mean dating) a much older ESE who adored the LII. I never really got "nice" from him: more needy, introverted, and ungrateful.
OP's premise sounds accurate though, my experiences on this topic are with small sample size and anecdotal.
/rubs esfjs. I don't know how you keep on giving... (Okay yeah there's also their insufferable martyrdom but let's keep this positive...)
You're probably nicer than you imagine, Fe can cause you to be hard on yourself from an objective behavior viewpoint.
But, from experience, ESEs can complain and show many emotions, but they know what they're doing with those emotions and are very much well liked, and are nice people. I wouldn't say so much for LXIs.
I work with an ESE who gets stressed, impatient, but she gives lots of good advice that goes beyond my realms of being helpful, saying hello and stuff. She's not my dual, but the pointers she gives me show a greater understanding of smoothing over people than I can come up with.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
