LIE Appreciation

[Delilah]

Some version of lyrics:

"Or are you both?
And what do you lust after?
How can such a thing as lust even be,
When it is provable that you are nothing but a temporary agglomeration of atoms.
Wavelengths of energy, as it were.
Though this moment has this form, but not for long,
And is not even fully present in this form.
For do you not think?
And in thinking, do you not think of places?
Am I then to think these places of which you think are... thought in your head or are they in your head?
Or are they somewhere else?
In thinking of them, do you see them?
In seeing of them, are they real?
If they are not real, will you then say that what you see before you now is more or less real, therefore you only know it by the seeing?
Is that not so?
Yes, I thought as much.

Because I would submit to you, my friend, that you are surrounded by allegory.

All of this is allegory.
All of it.

All of it.

This is allegory. This flesh."

[Dauphin]

Sometimes LIEs are very macho and sometimes they are geeky.

[Cosmic Teapot]

Based on two LIE's who I know well irl:


Dear LIE...
- your over the top optimism creates opportunities that other people need
- you apologize when you were rude
- you want to talk about problems. All the frigging time. To solve them.
- you're too nice sometimes...often...keep Your gifts I don't need them
- you read. That's cool...nerd
- you trust me with keys to your home. Why... When did that happen
- you challenge authority
- you're not mad that I accidentally punched you in the face. I'm so sorry...wait how could you forget that? Why are you so forgetful?
- have good advice that you can back up with life experience
- you never talk shit about other people
- you believe in love. Adorable.
- ...did I mention that you're too nice. Like no thanks I don't need a new laptop. Mine is still working and the noises are just special features ...Oh Look you bought a new laptop for me (for work but still...)
- you're funny because you have the emotional intelligence of a toaster yet you're always busy helping other people with stuff, invite people to house parties.You are a good big brother and a good friend.
- I like your dog. She is always happy and healthy and that means you're a nice person
- you never expect anything back...wth dude. The universe is out of balance and it's your fault
- thanks for the chocolate santa claus coworker gift
- I've never seen anyone being so happy for receiving a chocolate easter bunny. You're welcome. Of course I'm returning the favor duh
- thanks for trying to be sensitive, it's the thought that counts
- you're pretty, idiot

[Zero]

@Cosmic Teapot Wow I thought you hated us! but you know your stuff

[bolong]

LIEs make good architects and mechanical engineers. They are unique in their ability for abstraction, while also being highly practical.

They are outgoing and friendly and easy to talk to. They tell cute stories but also listen to others. They are good sports about being insulted or insulting others - they can brush it off, and they can also apologize.

I guess a more interesting question would be, what are the weaknesses of LIE, what happens if you make an enemy of them? How does an unstable LIE behave?

[Adam Strange]

I guess a more interesting question would be, what are the weaknesses of LIE, what happens if you make an enemy of them? How does an unstable LIE behave?

That is three questions.

[Rebelondeck]

Many moons ago, I introduced my girlfriend to a LIE classmate when we met at a pub. Although the LIE could be very charming, he was the very opposite of popular among the students; I was the closest thing to a friend that he had. Like most LIE, he was rather competitive and managed to seduce her within the week. Once he slept with her, he dumped her so she unsuccessfully tried to get back with me. I was so appreciative that the LIE revealed the true character of my girlfriend but I never saw the LIE again.

a.k.a. I/O

[Cosmic Teapot]

Someone mentioned me here(?) in a deleted post. I feel I've been invited to party without ever receiving the address and time. I thought the days where I'm not cool enough ended when I graduated from school. Damn you, unknown user *sulks in corner*

[Hope]

Someone mentioned me here(?) in a deleted post. I feel I've been invited to party without ever receiving the address and time. I thought the days where I'm not cool enough ended when I graduated from school. Damn you, unknown user *sulks in corner*

Well, now that you ask...
It was me, I was telling you that you seem in love with the LIE you wrote that stuff about.

Then I figured out that you could feel offended or something.

[FDG]

Many moons ago, I introduced my girlfriend to a LIE classmate when we met at a pub. Although the LIE could be very charming, he was the very opposite of popular among the students; I was the closest thing to a friend that he had. Like most LIE, he was rather competitive and managed to seduce her within the week. Once he slept with her, he dumped her so she unsuccessfully tried to get back with me. I was so appreciative that the LIE revealed the true character of my girlfriend but I never saw the LIE again.

a.k.a. I/O

to be honest that doesn't sound typical, it seems to be more SEE-ish behavior...

[Rebelondeck]

to be honest that doesn't sound typical, it seems to be more SEE-ish behavior...

He definitely wasn't SEE; he was too focused, a driven achiever and the leader of every class-project. Morality and ethics are not type specific so SEE are not normally that way either.

a.k.a. I/O

[Cosmic Teapot]

Well, now that you ask...
It was me, I was telling you that you seem in love with the LIE you wrote that stuff about.

Then I figured out that you could feel offended or something.

Aww lol thank you I actually had feelings for a LIE but that was long ago. As long as we're not too close and don't spent too much time together I can't help but like them.

[FDG]

He definitely wasn't SEE; he was too focused, a driven achiever and the leader of every class-project. Morality and ethics are not type specific so SEE are not normally that way either.

a.k.a. I/O

Okay, so if it's not type specific why are you posting this in a LIE appreciation thread?

[wasp]

I could easily write an uncovered profile for this type too

[Rebelondeck]

Okay, so if it's not type specific why are you posting this in a LIE appreciation thread?

He was LIE and I really appreciated what he did for me. If he did not have that LIE charm, I might have committed to someone who would have betrayed me at a later time - better to find out sooner than later.

a.k.a. I/O

[Zero]

I could easily write an uncovered profile for this type too

do it

[Skepsis]

http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/im-...f-worlds-36075

[Tallmo]

LIE is the best type because they make the most money.

At the end of the day that's what the purpose of the type is. To keep the person alive and prosperous.

[FDG]

LIE is the best type because they make the most money.

At the end of the day that's what the purpose of the type is. To keep the person alive and prosperous.

that s more like an esi purpose....

LIEs are ENxx types and their ultimate purpose is still creative realization in the intellectual and physical realm

[scio]

Every LIE I have ever met has this ability to defend me right off the bat. I feel very protected and defended by them.
IME they are ALWAYS willing to stick up for who they sympathize with. It's even better because I know they aren't even directly defending me out of loyalty or any emotional standpoint, but because they actually see my side. In my case, they can always tell I suck at sticking up for myself and without fail they will talk for me, explain my views to people, etc. It's the most amazing thing, and they just do it naturally.

[Zero]

http://www.theonion.com/blogpost/im-...f-worlds-36075

sounds like something written by an EIE or something

[wasp]

I can't speak for every LIE but my coworker falls in this category (LIE-Ni) and she's pretty amazing

she pointed out that I have a tendency to rationalize my feelings to myself which results in me framing my feelings like I might frame an argument, like I'm afraid that at some point I'll be shot down because my feelings are wrong, so I waste a lot of time searching for loopholes in my self-expression, then I try to rationalize each individual feeling to ensure that my feelings make sense to other people, essentially I have a bad habit of sacrificing emotional authenticity for coherency, so I almost never feel a sense of cathartic release. I've always known that about myself but I was still surprised that she picked up on it as quickly as she did because it's probably the main reason why I make jokes out of my feelings. she's an extremely insightful individual but she plays it down like crazy unless she feels it's necessary to share her perspective, she's modest but she isn't self-defeating. I just think she has a tendency to let her feelings get out of hand, which isn't bad in and of itself, except that sometimes she becomes vindictive in a way that actually is self-defeating.

most of the time we're just irl memeing with each other but sometimes we have serious conversations and when it happens it's always a pleasant surprise

[Kernel]

I only knew one LIE and he was super funny and spantaneous, did many things at once, he was the most optimistic person I've seen iml, the richest of his friends even though they had same opportunities to be like him. When you see him, you suddenly have this desire to go on a trip with him. I felt that he didn't care about many things except for his projects, which was taking all his time and energy. He was always in good spirits, many people appreciated that in him. He also had this facial expression saying "I know things that you don't know". And he liked ESIs haha, I think he liked their self-righteous, collected, calm, rational nature, it was as if it calmed him down a bit and he in return often cheered them up. I guess ESIs need that.

[lavos]

That sounds like an ESE. LIE are not cheerful like that all the time. They are T base. Are LSI's like that? LIEs are similar to LSIs. A LIE actually is a mix between an LSI and an EII.

[FDG]

I only knew one LIE and he was super funny and spantaneous, did many things at once, he was the most optimistic person I've seen iml, the richest of his friends even though they had same opportunities to be like him. When you see him, you suddenly have this desire to go on a trip with him. I felt that he didn't care about many things except for his projects, which was taking all his time and energy. He was always in good spirits, many people appreciated that in him. He also had this facial expression saying "I know things that you don't know". And he liked ESIs haha, I think he liked their self-righteous, collected, calm, rational nature, it was as if it calmed him down a bit and he in return often cheered them up. I guess ESIs need that.

Allright, so, why do some people promote a super-corporate stereotype of LIEs?

This post describes better the LIEs I know.

Of course in a big corporate setting they will be more serious but their real personality will still remain like this.

[FDG]

That sounds like an ESE. LIE are not cheerful like that all the time. They are T base. Are LSI's like that? LIEs are similar to LSIs. A LIE actually is a mix between an LSI and an EII.

A mi between a LSI and EII is a ESI in the temperament circle.

ESIs are also look-a-likes to LSIs, whereas EIEs are look-a-like to LIEs. Just to bring you back to reality.

[at sirac son of sirac]

I only knew one LIE and he was super funny and spantaneous, did many things at once, he was the most optimistic person I've seen iml, the richest of his friends even though they had same opportunities to be like him. When you see him, you suddenly have this desire to go on a trip with him. I felt that he didn't care about many things except for his projects, which was taking all his time and energy. He was always in good spirits, many people appreciated that in him. He also had this facial expression saying "I know things that you don't know". And he liked ESIs haha, I think he liked their self-righteous, collected, calm, rational nature, it was as if it calmed him down a bit and he in return often cheered them up. I guess ESIs need that.

Bingo.

LIEs are some of the funniest people too.

[WVBRY]

sounds like something written by an EIE or something

The Onion.

I wasn't sure if it was meant to be funny or something, til' I realized the source of the article.

My first impression: author sounds like a psychopath.

Actually, it's making fun of the MBTI ENTJ descriptions.

[lavos]

I only knew one LIE and he was super funny and spantaneous, did many things at once, he was the most optimistic person I've seen iml, the richest of his friends even though they had same opportunities to be like him. When you see him, you suddenly have this desire to go on a trip with him. I felt that he didn't care about many things except for his projects, which was taking all his time and energy. He was always in good spirits, many people appreciated that in him. He also had this facial expression saying "I know things that you don't know". And he liked ESIs haha, I think he liked their self-righteous, collected, calm, rational nature, it was as if it calmed him down a bit and he in return often cheered them up. I guess ESIs need that.

A mi between a LSI and EII is a ESI in the temperament circle.

ESIs are also look-a-likes to LSIs, whereas EIEs are look-a-like to LIEs. Just to bring you back to reality.

I'm talking about ouward behavior and appereance, no whatever Ti crap (why would this be?) you are citing as reference.

In fact, the LIE-LSI similarity is the only reason you can go around sporting a LIE typing and nobody calls you out on it. You might fool them, but you are not fooling me.

[The Reality Denialist]

I think ESE and LIE might carry some resemblance. Super ego types.
Who dares to say that the guy below does not look like ESE at all?

[WVBRY]

that s more like an esi purpose....

LIEs are ENxx types and their ultimate purpose is still creative realization in the intellectual and physical realm

I think what they meant was that since LIEs make the most money, and that a person's type is there to ensure survival in some form or another, therefore LIE is the best type to be since that is the purpose of having a type. (what Tallmo meant)

My personal opinion though, is that making money isn't the sole purpose of a person's type, nor of life even.

[FDG]

I'm talking about ouward behavior and appereance, no whatever Ti crap (why would this be?) you are citing as reference.

In fact, the LIE-LSI similarity is the only reason you can go around sporting a LIE typing and nobody calls you out on it. You might fool them, but you are not fooling me.

Thinking I´m LSI is absurd, I have a clear sensing polr IRL...

And yeah no outwardly LSI and LIEs are only similar in their being logical and positivist and resolute, but LSI are introverted statics aristocratic and LIEs are extroverted dynamics democratic, there´s a very big difference in everyday behavior and life concept.

[Bertrand]

lol I'm not fooled

[Exodus]

she pointed out that I have a tendency to rationalize my feelings to myself which results in me framing my feelings like I might frame an argument, like I'm afraid that at some point I'll be shot down because my feelings are wrong, so I waste a lot of time searching for loopholes in my self-expression, then I try to rationalize each individual feeling to ensure that my feelings make sense to other people, essentially I have a bad habit of sacrificing emotional authenticity for coherency, so I almost never feel a sense of cathartic release.

Is that necessarily a bad thing though? If people expressed every irrational emotion they felt it would create some problems.

[Exodus]

Thinking I´m LSI is absurd, I have a clear sensing polr IRL...

And yeah no outwardly LSI and LIEs are only similar in their being logical and positivist and resolute, but LSI are introverted statics aristocratic and LIEs are extroverted dynamics democratic, there´s a very big difference in everyday behavior and life concept.

More like:

LSI and LIE are similar in their being logical and Se valuing, but LSIs are introverted, sensing, and Ti valuing while LIEs are extroverted, intuitive, and Te valuing.

Dear LIE...
- your over the top optimism creates opportunities that other people need
- you want to talk about problems. All the frigging time. To solve them.
- you're too nice sometimes...often...keep Your gifts I don't need them
- you read. That's cool...nerd
- you challenge authority
- you're not mad that I accidentally punched you in the face. I'm so sorry...wait how could you forget that? Why are you so forgetful?
- have good advice that you can back up with life experience
- ...did I mention that you're too nice. Like no thanks I don't need a new laptop. Mine is still working and the noises are just special features ...Oh Look you bought a new laptop for me (for work but still...)
- you're funny because you have the emotional intelligence of a toaster yet you're always busy helping other people with stuff, invite people to house parties.You are a good big brother and a good friend.
- you never expect anything back...wth dude. The universe is out of balance and it's your fault
- thanks for trying to be sensitive, it's the thought that counts

These ones fit my experience with LIEs...not so sure about the apologizing for being rude though

Also, LIEs can be very optimistic or very pessimistic, they have creative Ni after all. This is one of those weird holdovers from Augusta that gets repeated everywhere.

[Adam Strange]

More like:

LSI and LIE are similar in their being logical and Se valuing, but LSIs are introverted, sensing, and Ti valuing while LIEs are extroverted, intuitive, and Te valuing.

These ones fit my experience with LIEs...not so sure about the apologizing for being rude though

I apologized for being rude twice this week. It probably should have been three times.

[hatesyardwork]

I apologized for being rude twice this week. It probably should have been three times.

What compelled you to apologize?
Apologies are easy if I decide to make them. Making that decision depends on why I was rude. I usually know why I am being rude. When I know I am wrong and went too far and I acted rude disproportionally to someone else, then apologies are simple. I got to get there first though.
I once reamed an airline attendant for a delayed flight due to weather and I was going to miss a wedding because of it. Not her fault at all, but someone had to feel my frustration. She was professional and apologetic and I was in my own little shit fest. Yelled for maybe a full minute, and then it hit me, and I apologized because I had to reclaim my integrity oddly. I was abusing someone who had no power, I was ashamed, and tried to right the wrong. I have to admit it to myself first. My ego can melt away when I feel I am wrong so apologies are not that difficult.


I have to wince at my own behavior though......I was out of line. Often I am unapologetic because I feel I am reacting to others proportionally. Then I am immoveable.



Apologies are very easy once I decide

[Adam Strange]

What compelled you to apologize?

I was being an incredibly insensitive asshole, and only realized it after the fact.

I'll describe it, since it might have some relevance to LIE's and duality.

I had spent the previous evening talking with an ESI-Se guy who totally reminded me of my best friend from high school. We had probably exchanged less that a hundred words in the two years we've known each other, but he recently quit his job and I wanted to find out what he thought of the company culture that he left, so I could ensure that I didn't do something stupid with my own company which might drive off ESI's. I don't really have that much experience with ESI's outside of my HS buddy and a couple guys I work with and therefore can't fraternize with, so I wanted to get his thoughts on what kind of environment he liked.

We sat down to eat dinner and we talked about that for less than an hour, and then easily moved on to every other topic you can imagine. We talked so long that the restaurant waiter told us that someone had paid for our meal and the tip, we were all set, and I assumed they wanted the table more than the cost of the meal.

We left the restaurant and continued our talk in a heavy misting rain outside the restaurant for about three hours. When I would start to flag in the convo, he'd come in enthusiastically, and when he flagged, I took it as a sign that I could talk about some random thing that I cared about. My ex-girl friends. His present GF. Our work. The state of technology. Duality for sure. He even suggested that we meet again regularly. I left there feeling indescribably normal and optimistic. It was classic duality, where your dual interprets your life in a way that is not necessarily pleasant, but is completely constructive and supportive.

What I didn't realize is that this free exchange of information and acceptance by my dual completely let my guard down. The next day, I went into the office and said my normal Hello's to two secretaries, an SEI and an IEE. They normally look and dress fabulously (I think), but the IEE had her hair pulled back in a ponytail (her hair is salt and pepper) for the first time and I opened my mouth and said that that was not the best look for her, because it made her look much older than normal.



This of course pissed her off no end, and the SEI just screwed up her face and I could tell that I really said something stupid there. I apologized immediately, but stupid is stupid. Letting my guard down on my communications is very, very dangerous for me. All I could think of for the next couple of hours was how I could make that up to her.

The IEE later ran into me in the hall and I apologized again, and she laughed and said I need to think before I open my mouth, filters, filters, and she is so right.

I've never previously seen any downside to duality before, but I do now. Just because your inner child has learned to talk, doesn't mean you let it drive the car.

[hatesyardwork]

I was being an incredibly insensitive asshole, and only realized it after the fact.

I'll describe it, since it might have some relevance to LIE's and duality.

This of course pissed her off no end, and the SEI just screwed up her face and I could tell that I really said something stupid there. I apologized immediately, but stupid is stupid. Letting my guard down on my communications is very, very dangerous for me. All I could think of for the next couple of hours was how I could make that up to her.

The IEE later ran into me in the hall and I apologized again, and she laughed and said I need to think before I open my mouth, filters, filters, and she is so right.

I've never previously seen any downside to duality before, but I do now. Just because your inner child has learned to talk, doesn't mean you let it drive the car.

I have a lot of the same experiences thru out my life. I apologize immediately as well. You offend enough people you get better at appeasing them and learning how to effectively apologize.

Never thought on the dangerousness of being open in Duality and then not putting your social filters back up. I guess I see this in my own humor which is dark and not politically correct. Those who know me laugh with glee and others stare in disbelief. I do find my relaxed self can be polarizing to others.

I get a lot of the "I thought you were crazy when I first met you." I also hear of friends defending me to others........"that's just Mike.......he's cool"

So Duality is dangerous!

[Pole]

Too bad LIE's aren't my dual, I love 'em!