You know you're 4w3 when...
C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479
...when you are unique and dazzling, but you deeply doubt your own worth.
IDK, I'm just guessing here.
... you know the "Born This Way" lyrics by heart and still tear up every time.
When you (unconsciously) believe you'll be loved if you are unique or special, followed by what you do and whether you are successful or not.
no.
no.
no.
I dont think I can ever be loved like other people. It doesnt matter what I do, its just the fact that I am me that makes me that way. In relationships I cant ask about their past partners because when I think about it I am certain that they loved their exes more, and they still do, and they dont really love me at all. I cant have that, I need to be the most special and memorable thing theyve ever had. But I never am. Even if its in my mind and they havent said it... I obsess about it and ruin the relationship over it. Or I leave. Just because of my thoughts.
Here's a good overview on the essence of the Heart Types (2, 3, 4).
If you can relate very well or strongly to the 4 description followed by 3, it is likely you are 4w3.
.. you claim that you are especially unloveable, yet when you feel loved you tear it to shreds and leave in a panic because it would require you to change the basis of your identity as unloveable, and change is hard. *pat pat*
Reason is a whore.
When you focus on what's missing rather than what you got.
Not to derail, but this could have been written by my LII sister. In many ways, it is brilliant.Originally Posted by Jeremy
I read somewhere that e4's felt rejected as kids.
Our mother didn't love any of her kids, but she saw my LII sister as a rival. This was not good for my sister, to say the least. My sister wanted to be loved, but she feels unworthy of love because if your mother, who knows you best, doesn't love you, there must be something fundamentally wrong with you. Not with her.
Add to that the normal human tendency to want to reproduce your parent's relationship as an adult, and you end up with some serious obstacles to overcome.
My sister, incidentally, is a wonderful person, and has cut all contact with our parents. I think she's healthier for it at the moment.
So your Thinking sister is a 4...?
Do you think that's impossible? You're the one always seemingly saying socionics and enneagram have little connection.
･ﾟ*✧ 𝓘 𝓌𝒾𝓁𝓁 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒶𝒸𝒸𝑒𝓅𝓉 𝒶 𝓁𝒾𝒻𝑒 𝓘 𝒹𝑜 𝓃𝑜𝓉 𝒹𝑒𝓈𝑒𝓇𝓋𝑒 ✧*:･ﾟ
I dont say that, I say that socionics *doesnt exist*But if he types his sister as a thinking type that means he sees her as a logical and rational person, which collides with her being 4 which is a type who lives through their emotion and feelings mostly.
Yeah I actually don't think Logical types can be 4 core or vice versa.
I've never seen a Logical type who was Type 4, and it makes no sense.
Jeremy gave a good explanation as to why that is the case.
I think she is a type 5, actually. But she gets super depressed at times, goes into retreat, has problems with relationships, has been married and divorced several times, and is super-smart. She might be a 5w4. I don't really know.
@Cassandra's link was very informative, in the sense that the writer associated 5's with internalized fear and 4's with internalized grief. My sister certainly had reason to fear our mother, who was constantly physically violent.
*edit*
When I say she gets depressed, I mean suicidally depressed. She has a 45 loaded with hollow point ammo, and she has called me drunk before asking me if she should kill herself with a gun or a car crash. Her voice got fainter and fainter and she ended up shooting a dresser in her bedroom (which destroyed it) and hanging up the phone without a word, which was a bit disturbing to me. (I keep those feelings locked in the basement.)
Her present husband was downstairs watching TV at the time, and he just finished watching and went to his bedroom. I guess he's become used to this.
But if you look at her actions from one standpoint, she is re-enacting some childhood scene, where someone is going to kill her and she is calling for rescue from someone who cares.
*edit - edit*
Two thoughts.
1. My early childhood might go a long way toward explaining why my tri-type is "the Justice Fighter".
2. I married an SLI like my father, and my LII sister is presently married to an LSE male, like her LSE mother.
" 'round and 'round it goes...."
Get smart. Break the cycle.
Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-30-2017 at 06:47 PM.
This sentence alone is very misleading in the sense that most people can relate to what is missing, in their lives, rather than what they have. Probably why sites like these are popular. I can't imagine everyone thinking duality is the answer to their relationships problems is a 4. I certainly don't think duality is an answer, for example. "What is missing" is the reason people strive for more and more in many cases. Bigger, better, stronger, smarter, creative, richer, prettier... The list goes on. Fill those empty spaces inside you. Not just a 4 thing.
It is also what can irritate me about some people because their "missing" is all just superficial to me. My mom is not a 4, even in tritype, but she certainly can focus on what is missing instead of appreciating what is there. If you ever read chatbox it is kind of a common thing to see people discussing what is missing in their lives and focusing on it. I don't tend to talk about what is missing. I just feel it and try to remind myself that I am whole. There is nothing missing inside me. I am not built the same way. I don't value some of the things others need to feel complete.
In many 4s, I have talked to, the missing element is something they don't even recognize either but feel. When they were younger they didn't have words to describe it which further alienated them, from friends, when they attempted to speak of it. No one else got it. This was painfully clear to me when I was a child/teen and tried to talk to some of my best friends only to hear, paraphrased, "you are just being too dark", or "weird" and once being accused of wanting to die because I dared to go too deep into the subjects of life, death, meaning, purpose... Kids aren't supposed to be into those things.
It often doesn't even become conscious until they have had years of introspection or in some cases, therapy. The feeling, for me, was that there was something fundamentally missing inside my mind, body and soul that made me different from absolutely everyone I had ever met. So let's try some meds to fix you. I didn't and don't need to be fixed. As a child I did not feel I was in my true family, that I was an "alien" for lack of a better term. Being that different allowed for me to live outside of society's rules. I didn't feel bound by them. Making it worse I didn't have another 4 to talk to in my life, when I was a kid/teen, but now I find myself being drawn to 4s and they are drawn to me. Mostly younger ones who recognize something in me as I recognize something in them.
I use to think I wanted to fit in, to belong. It wasn't true because if I did I would have kept my head down and gone along with the program. I wanted people who met me to never forget that I was different from absolutely anyone they had ever met or would meet again. I feel that in a way I have achieved that objective. I didn't want to be famous. I wanted my name spoken in the shadows where select people would always be left with a lasting impression and keep my legend alive, sometimes in mythical proportions. I don't know if that was a conscious thought at the time but the energy of it was certainly there. I wanted to be recognized as different. I didn't care if it was in a good way or bad way.
I secretly enjoy visiting places once a year, or so, where I was once active to see my name has been brought up, many times, and people wondering if I lived or died. People still speculating on what was so special about me and even people pretending they knew me well when they didn't know me at all. I heard some great stories about myself this way. Many untrue...Then I will post one thing which is often kind of cryptic or haunting only to disappear again. Such as, "my spirit still haunts you all. stop talking about me like I am dead. <3"
I do not personally identify with 4w3 but I do relate to what @ghost posted. I think that is typical for sx first 4s though. The only reason I can admit this now without feeling foolish and arrogant is because I see it for what it is. I have a much broader perspective on myself than I did even 5 years ago. I would probably rather have died than admit how unique I really wanted to be seen as, then. I can laugh at myself now after each inner storm. Doesn't mean the weather is getting better. I am just getting better at dealing with life on my own terms. I have never been able to play the blame game without feeling like a total fraud. I accept most, if not all, of my problems are self inflicted.
Accepting your own power is kind of freeing. It offers more choices in any given moment. If there is something I don't have then I didn't want it enough to make it happen. If something is missing then I am too focused on details and totally missing the big picture. The big picture is intricate but whole. There are no missing pieces. Sometimes I just have a piece in the wrong place. I rearrange it, then, ahhhh, better.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
That's strange, because I have seen them. SLI's, LSI's, LIE's and LII's.
Last edited by mclane; 04-30-2017 at 08:45 PM.
He's still thinking you are LII is more likely and still wants to bring it to your attention.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
Lol, no.
She can be whatever type she wants to be.
For most people, I get a stronger sense of their socionics type than I do of their enneagram type. With Jeremy, it is the reverse. Her enneagram type overwhelms her socionics type, as far as I can see.
I originally thought she was LII because she strongly reminds me of my LII sister and I type by correlation, but I can see that what reminded me of my sister could simply have been Jeremy's enneagram.
“My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.” —C.G. Jung
...maybe they were not SLIs, LSIs, LIEs and LIIs. Or they were mistyping as 4s.
Once I knew a 4 who was claiming to be INTj but she wasnt. She seemed to be INFx.
"All nations will place their hope in him."
(Mt 12:21)
Of course, they could always be mistyped. But I can try to give you a few examples I'm pretty sure of to make up your mind.
4w3's:
Viggo Mortensen (LII-Ti)
Annie Lennox (LIE-Ni)
I'm pretty sure LSI-Se's can be E4 (maybe Malcom McDowell is one). I don't have any SLI E4 real life examples (only from videogame characters and such), but I know they are theoretically possible, at least the Te sub.
EDIT: ok I found an SLI E4; Robert DeNiro.
You know well...
...that proves nothing, nothing at all.
"All nations will place their hope in him."
(Mt 12:21)
You still have much to learn.
"All nations will place their hope in him."
(Mt 12:21)
@Adam Strange
Your family sounds like mine. My brother became the justice fighter. I'm a 5, and my EII mother saw my EII sister as her rival.
Your sister sounds like she has C-PTSD.
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
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