Integral Type of Japan (thread split)

[Singu]

Japan was doing good up until about the end of 80s... not anymore. Well, you can say that virtually all the countries in the world right now are not going "good"... I feel like the world might just implode one day.

[niffer]

Yes, the very things which enable them to prosper (xenophobia, zero immigration, rigid bureaucracy) contain the seeds of decline, because they will have trouble innovating if they don't accept input from every source. This is above and beyond the natural resource and pollution limitations that every country is coming up against.

On the other hand, it seems that rigid, authoritarian countries are better able to weather difficult times than democracies, which are very short-sighted and which refuse to make the hard decisions about what to do when the globe is polluted and there are increasing numbers of mouths to feed.

Yes totally. They do need to change but the whole topic is a very complicated one.

[niffer]

I feel like the world might just implode one day.

ur mom

[niffer]

@Adam Strange @ everyone

And I'll be going into foreign immigration and public/NPO work there soon

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA I'm so fucked

[Adam Strange]

@Adam Strange @ everyone

And I'll be going into foreign immigration and public/NPO work there soon

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA I'm so fucked

You're going to be working in foreign immigration in Japan? Isn't that like working to prevent elephant stampedes in Boston?

[niffer]

You're going to be working in foreign immigration in Japan? Isn't that like working to prevent elephant stampedes in Boston?

and I'm one of the elephants

[Adam Strange]

and I'm one of the elephants

Yes, I know. I assume you are strong enough to endure. How long are you planning to stay there? Or are you going to just wait and see how it goes?

A Jewish friend of mine and his Shaker IEI wife moved to the south of France and loved it, but it didn't love them. They divorced, he moved to Israel, and she returned to the States.

I spent some time in Montreal, but because I don't speak French, they made it clear that I would never fit in, in a thousand subtle ways.

[niffer]

Yes, I know. I assume you are strong enough to endure. How long are you planning to stay there? Or are you going to just wait and see how it goes?

A Jewish friend of mine and his Shaker IEI wife moved to the south of France and loved it, but it didn't love them. They divorced, he moved to Israel, and she returned to the States.

lmao

I've been to southern France before too and it was absolutely amazing. What happened there that made them have to end up like that?

I don't know yet, re: how long .. I guess I can only say I'll see how it goes at this point.

[Adam Strange]

lmao

I've been to southern France before too and it was absolutely amazing. What happened there that made them have to end up like that?

I don't know yet, re: how long .. I guess I can only say I'll see how it goes at this point.

You mean, beyond his being ILE and her being IEI?

What happened to them was the subtle and not-so-subtle prejudice that the natives constantly showed them. They had money, but were unable to buy a house. Probably what blacks experience in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan. (Assuming they don't get arrested on the way to the real estate office.)

Interestingly enough, I've been told by people of all nationalities that the US (at least, the cities) accept foreigners as fellow Americans within two weeks of their arrival.

[niffer]

What happened to them was the subtle and not-so-subtle prejudice that the natives constantly showed them. They had money, but had a very hard time buying a house. Probably what blacks experience in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan. (Assuming they don't get arrested on the way to the real estate office.)

Interestingly enough, I've been told by people of all nationalities that the US (at least, the cities) accept foreigners as fellow Americans within two weeks of their arrival.

Interesting.

Japan has actually been a very interesting experience for me because it's the first place I've felt "accepted" at first glance just based on my background. I never really felt accepted by any kind of group growing up in Canada, because of being biracial. It's often said that the US is like a cultural melting pot, while Canada is like a cultural mosaic. In other words minorities form tight groups that don't have much reason to intermingle. I grew up in an extremely Chinese-dense area, and sort of stuck out like a sore thumb like a black person more or less lol. But in Japan I was treated better than I'd ever been before, even better than my own family.

[Adam Strange]

Interesting.

Japan has actually been a very interesting experience for me because it's the first place I've felt "accepted" at first glance just based on my background. I never really felt accepted by any kind of group growing up in Canada, because of being biracial. It's often said that the US is like a cultural melting pot, while Canada is like a cultural mosaic. In other words minorities form tight groups that don't have much reason to intermingle much. I grew up in an extremely Chinese-dense area, and sort of stuck out like a sore thumb like a black person more or less lol. But in Japan I was treated better than I'd ever been before, even better than my own family.

Wow, that sounds great. I think I've seen that Canadian cultural thing, where people stay in groups and don't mix. It was one of the things I saw immediately and liked the least about Canada.

I hope that Japan is much more accepting.

Once, when I was in China, I was talking to a well-educated company president, and I was surprised at how much the Japanese were hated there. IDK if this goes both ways. I hope not.

If it does, just tell everyone that you are Canadian.

[niffer]

@Adam Strange unfortunately it kind of does, though I think there's a bit less from the other direction. Younger people over there aren't as educated/falsely indoctrinated about these parts of Japan's history though, so they're much more open about everything.

[niffer]

@Singularity if you're still not convinced of Japan being Beta, this would be a good read for you... that is if you're in fact interested in learning and not just wanting to be a bleeding ass.

https://scholarship.rice.edu/bitstre...pdf?sequence=1
"THE STUDY OF JAPANESE PERSONALITYAND BEHAVIORby William Caudill - Rice University Studies"

5. An underlying emotionality and excitability which is controlled by asomewhat compulsive attention to details, plans, and rules. The tendencyto be excitable, and to rely on emotional feeling and intuition as much as onreason, is another theme that has been emphasized repeatedly in the literature.In 1905, Nitobe (1905: 109-1 10) said, "Personally I believe it was ourvery excitability and sensitiveness which made it a necessity to recognizeand enforce constant self-repression." In the late 1920's Watsuji (1961: 207)said, "Even the Japanese . . . who seem to have liberated themselves sovaliantly and heroically from the shackles of the traditions of their past stillreveal their national character explicitly in their impatient excitability." Inthe late 1940'sNakamura (1964: 531) observed that ". . . the thinking of mostJapanese tends to be intuitive and emotional." Finally, we may add from asomewhat different perspective that most industrial nations currently areexperiencing unrest among college students as they try to give voice to theirfeelings about what could be a better world, but the excitability and factionalismof Japanese students are exceeded by none (Mehnert 1969).

Wow! Amazing how I refuted your subjective, own opinion pulled-out-of-ass points deftly with just one legit source!

Also, how's this for an Fe performance


@mclane you should be here to observe my mastery too

Now if you want to discuss this further you can unblock me over Discord and do it there, because I'm going to ask for the next post you make about this to be removed.

[niffer]

@Singularity Interesting how you decided to delete the post you just made after I guess you saw how completely futile and idiotic it was after I made the post above--not that you'd ever admit to this being the reason. Maybe you have some crumbs of sense in you after all. I won't let the fact that you did this just disappear though.

[niffer]

I deleted the post long before you even made the post you fool.

Got any proof of that? =)

[niffer]

@Singularity I'm going to save this exchange here for memorabilia =) :

Posts #273 to 294
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1176946

[niffer]

lol, you're the one who assumed that I must've deleted it because of your amazing debating skillz.

That I am.

[niffer]

@Singularity . You are like a blind man pissing onto his own face. I lol at the idea that you think you are being educational to me.

Anyways, as I promised I reported your post. You can choose to delete it now, or it will be removed soon enough. Copy and paste it somewhere else if you want to save it.

P.S. I'm online on Discord right now.

[niffer]

There's no chance in hell I'm talking to you. Goodbye.

In your act of uttering this sentence to me, there was a 100% chance that you were talking to me. =)

Unless your meaning with this was that when you're talking with me you're in heaven.

[niffer]

niffer, you're so full of shit that it's not even funny.

Goodbye.

Judging by your conduct from this post here and how quickly you resurfaced from your rat's nest afterwards, the likelihood that you will be back soon is very high.

[Singu]

Don't talk to me or mention me anymore.

[Soupman]

That's very interesting. I'd heard from someone before that some socionics author considered Japan to be LSI. On an administrative level, I completely agree with Gulenko's breakdown. It's a huge bureaucratic mess.

I don't see where he explicitly assigns "judicious" to this though. This seems like something you've extrapolated on your own if I'm not mistaken.

So combining "judicious" and "LSI", I could see how the resulting creature could be either "IEI" or "SLI". I'm inclined to choose IEI for all the reasons I've already stated--matching quadra values, TLDR.

I really appreciate your contribution. Thanks.

Viktor is on facebook, go ask him yourself he'll confirm it, you can join his "Club Eureka" to get the latest access to his research. It's around USD $30 per month.

He classes ESE (&LSE) as decisive, which makes sense from the energy model's perspective, one of the reasons why the Eastern socionists have tendency to hate him.

[Soupman]

Hmm, so these are the reason why he thinks it's LSI:



I can kind of understand why he thinks so, since Japan is such a bureaucracy-led country, and much of the bureaucracy or how its run is probably LSI. I don't disagree that the whole thing and how it operates is very LSI.

But I think what he ignores or doesn't see is that the much of the government and the bureaucracy are very different from the actual "culture" or the "people" of Japan, the bureaucratic "system" imposes its own will on the people in the way that the people do not necessarily wish to be imposed upon. This is basically how Japan entered the war, even though it had been disastrous for them as well as for much of Asia. And the entire bureaucratic system had not been completely revamped since the pre-1945 days, much of the system had been kept intact (which is why the Japanese education system, as well as the corporations that the bureaucracy has control over, have militaristic undertones). This goes in line with how much of feudal Japan were ruled by Beta STs, and even after the "revolution" (which was more of a coup), the LSI mentality still managed to hold the reign. A lot of the things however, are probably more complex than what mere Socionics analysis can provide.

Your understanding deviates from Viktor's present theories on socionics, especially the quadral views he has which are presently based on DCNH. This here is one of his numerous sites
https://socionics.jimdo.com/ more DCNH oriented.

You can join club Eureka if you want the latest access to his articles along with priority over queries... its USD$30 per month.

Personally I like what some people would call Viktor's fickle nature, to me it means he's actively thinking and never satisfied.

[Tigerfadder]

Your understanding deviates from Viktor's present theories on socionics, especially the quadral views he has which are presently based on DCNH. This here is one of his numerous sites
https://socionics.jimdo.com/ more DCNH oriented.

You can join club Eureka if you want the latest access to his articles along with priority over queries... its USD$30 per month.

Personally I like what some people would call Viktor's fickle nature, to me it means he's actively thinking and never satisfied.

Does he leave model A basically to work on this energymodel and rebranding it? Are you a member?

[Soupman]

Does he leave model A basically to work on this energymodel and rebranding it? Are you a member?

Was a member, unfortunately, personal finances have forced me to make cutbacks so I had to terminate my membership. I like his research & opennesses so I'll get back into it as soon as I can financially.

[Singu]

bye.

I'll take a look at DCNH thing... if I could understand Russian.