Boundaries
How do you establish boundaries with other people, and yes feel free to bring up socionics; Had a couple of things recently and I'd wondered what i could have done differently. Can include various / any situations you feel comfortable sharing.
Something I'd had in mind, it turned out i'd got too close to someone I shouldn't have and the advice I'd received was this emotional closeness happened because I hadn't established proper boundaries.
I don't know the context so I'll give this advice:
You deserve respect. Anything short of that, give the cold shoulder until you are treated with the respect that you deserve.
If it is a time issue, set time frames you'll be available and don't cater to anyone if they impose on that.
If there's an emotional boundary listen to your gut instinct. If you aren't sure what it means, take some time to withdraw and meditate or contemplate why you got that gut instinct. Think in terms of what is best for you and why what happened actually wasn't good for you.
Edit: Also don't over-extend yourself when you don't know someone very well.
I'm glad you mentioned emotional boundaries, for me they tend to be very rigid, like once a person is outside the boundary, so to speak, they stay there. Aware of this, I try to be lenient before I establish 'where the person belongs in my emotional universe', so to speak, because I know it's nearly irreversible once laid down.
So i'm wondering about the pre-establishment period: whether I'm too lenient, maybe sending mixed signals about direction but like to me i also like to allow for the unexpecteds and the mystery in the world so as to not exclude something or wall-out a potential friend, but wanting to come to a more mature way of doing it though my instincts on it have really rarely been wrong so far...(??)
Made this mistake far to often. Sometimes it's not you but the other person. What helps is talking about it (if they can't take it, good, there goes your feelings of attachment).Originally Posted by Delilah
If it's you: Self-Discipline and Self-Knowledge
https://www.amazon.de/Dip-Little-Boo.../dp/1591841666
Book review: http://www.summary.com/book-reviews/_/The-Dip/
Still, sometimes, we commit ourselves to completing a project or staying with a company or relationship only to discover later that the situation has stagnated and there is no potential for real growth.
I must admit I haven't read the book myself, just summaries, but what you can take away from it is that you have to make guidelines from the very beginning. Make "if-then"-rules that keep you from overextending yourself.
-> If this person behaves this way/oversteps this boundary/makes me feel like...then I will cut contact
-> If I don't see any improvement after (insert timespan) then I will quit (and invest my time in something/someone else)
Make sure that you know your boundaries, values, priorities and goals as well as the compromises that you are (not) willing to make.
Make an early warning system: Be aware of how you behave when you get emotionally attached to someone. Be it super long text messages, and immediate replies, or obsessing about the person. Observe your behavior and make sure to take a step back as soon as your behavior fits these patterns or ask a friend to keep an eye on you.
Be aware that sometimes we get attached not to the person but to the ideal image we have of them.
Last edited by Cosmic Teapot; 03-01-2017 at 10:25 PM.
I like your mention of phones too. Texting can easily screw up communication. I think it's good to immediately state how you are doing if someone starts texting you. Say you have the flu, just write "I'm really sick with the flu and don't have much energy". That way the person knows not to consistently text. Or "I will be out at xyz tonight and will not be at my phone, please call me if you have an emergency though". I mean I've had sick people who needed to go to the hospital text it and I didn't see... I'd hope most people would call if it was serious. Also stuff like "I would rather save this conversation for outside of text".
I agree that texting adds problems to communication that need to be resolved as soon as texting starts. But I prefer to just say that I don't like regular communication.That may come off as unfriendly but better sooner than later.
I also like it when in someone my circle of acquaintances tells me when there are sick but the question is if I am willing to take the responsibility that comes with it. It is important not to care to much about everyone but a view close people that are worth the energy (And care as much about you!!). That's why priorities and boundaries are so important.
Smart to say you don't want regular communication. It is a way people think they can get to know you fast and they might think they know you when they really don't. So that's a smart boundary, you don't want regular communication. Texting messes up so much, especially people who are dependent on it.
Exactly. It looks like a shortcut for psychological closeness but really isn't one.
learn to say no. learn to reject. learn to push away.
Oh, so you got blamedSounds fishy to my intuition. But I don't know the exact circumstances.
Boundaries are a matter of each person individually, what is a dealbreaker for one turns another person on, what is acceptable for one is downright hell for the other. When boundaries are exceeded, usually projection is going on unless you have discussed no-go and yes please zones beforehand. It's not about establishing boundaries here. They are already there. What matters is pointing them out to each other.
I second everything said here. Respect yourself and demand others do too. Don't break your back or infringe on your own values and priorities for no one, I assure you is not worth it and you'll hate yourself afterwards.
Trust your instincts, your gut, intuition or whatever you call that inner alarm that goes off when something feels wrong in someone. Your inner voice it's your best guide, so listen to it. It knows what's up.
This is really important.
Oh, so you got blamed
Boundaries are a matter of each person individually, what is a dealbreaker for one turns another person on, what is acceptable for one is downright hell for the other. When boundaries are exceeded, usually projection is going on unless you have discussed no-go and yes please zones beforehand. It's not about establishing boundaries here. They are already there. What matters is pointing them out to each other.
Ime well-built boundaries don't need to be hyper-rigid for every detail because the main strategic points are well-enforced. From that feeling of basic safety, it becomes easier to trust yourself, trust that you *can* enforce whatever needs it, and from that you become more relaxed about boundaries in general, because you trust the ones you do have. Strong != Rigid!Brick!Wall!
This also means that you gain more nuance in your interactions with people. They don't need to be In Or Out, they can be In-For-Emergency-Pancakes-Out-For-3am-Phone-Calls, you know? You don't strictly need one rule to fit everyone. Of course for important matters then there is one rule ("Don't assault me." for eg), but in non-urgent everyday interactions there is space for more flexibility according to how you feel about the present situation.
Reason is a whore.
Haha the emergency pancakes however may or may not be part of my emotional universe, like they can be in an entirely different zone yet now that it's been pointed out makes me wonder though...hm
Like for me it has to be a little rigid, like it won't work otherwise, that's the impression that i get
This is a challenging question. The natural answer is that I don't care, but that is misleading. I definitely lean on the side that a breach of some kind would not bother me very much. I attempt to be that way, but it is a struggle at times.
On the other side of things, I tend to have to really think hard on not pushing people too much to a certain action or response. For example, I think marching band is good. My brother doesn't do marching band, but can. I tell him every so often that I'd like him to join marching band. I understand that certain people don't want to hear me lecture, so I tend to be more careful with them. As such, I consider it a challenge balancing their needs with my needs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology
An optimist - does not get discouraged under any circumstances. Life upheavals and stressful events only toughen him and make more confident. He likes to laugh and entertain people. Enters contact with someone by involving him with a humorous remark. His humor is often sly and contain hints and double meanings. Easily enters into arguments and bets, especially if he is challenged. When arguing his points is often ironic, ridicules the views of his opponent. His irritability and hot temper may be unpleasant to others. However, he himself is not perceptive of this and believes that he is simply exchanging opinions.
http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.php?title=LIE_Profile_by_Gulenko
This is a great post btw, thanks! also to others who've contributed and do argue to the contrary if need be (*looking at you Guavadrunk*)
Fwiw I really like @Horatio's post (it is admittedly more relevant to your situation than mine) and I don't mean that nothing should be rigidly enforced. I mean that if you feel that even small things, like idk one vaguely annoying tone of voice used once*, need to be enforced *exactly as intensively, or moreso* as big things, then it tells you that you're probably less confident in your power of assertiveness than you could ideally be. *Appropriate* adaptiveness is a good gauge of feeling well-balanced inside, as opposed to for eg slamming the table with a fist about everything.
tl;dr: beware overcompensation. (Maybe I could have just said that)
*phone contact at appropriate times is not a small thing, neither is being addressed with fitting respect, etc.
Reason is a whore.
I'm glad you mention that, Guava, that phone contact is not a small thing; what else is a small thing versus something more important (?); I've found myself re-evaluating precisely these sorts of things.
I have no boundaries.
That... is complicated, as it ultimately relies on your sense of self, which is really not something that an Internet Stranger™ can tease out for you.
You may find the following pages/websites useful:
- https://markmanson.net/boundaries - good starting place about boundaries in general, what they are and where they come from
- https://markmanson.net/manipulative-relationships - post about vulnerability, which is linked to boundaries in that asserting a genuine preference (whatever that preference is) implicitly requires you to be honest, which can be scary
- https://captainawkward.com/category/boundaries-2/ - generally good website about managing personal relations. It's basically an advice column and while some of the cases are *ahem* dramatic instances of wrongness, it also untangles those instances where something rubs you wrong but you don't know what or why or even if it's ok to act on it.
- http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/ - has some good stuff about boundaries, mostly oriented to romantic relationships. Not my style but maybe you'll like it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- resources for borderline personality disorder, people managing life after huge relational abuse/trauma? I suggest it because patients/survivors afaik often find it hard to tell what an appropriate boundary is at all, and maybe some of the advice will be applicable to your situation. Maybe not. I am however in no way, shape or form suggesting that this is a diagnosis that might fit you, or suggesting any diagnosis whatsoever. Just brainstorming.
Reason is a whore.
Even if people don't have borderline personality disorder, the advice given to BPD for appropriate boundaries really is useful for a lot of people. Plus it often dives in to extreme contexts that people might be struggling with and are afraid to talk about or acknowledge. Sometimes I anonymously browse BPD boards just because the advice is so good.That... is complicated, as it ultimately relies on your sense of self, which is really not something that an Internet Stranger™ can tease out for you.
You may find the following pages/websites useful:
- https://markmanson.net/boundaries - good starting place about boundaries in general, what they are and where they come from
- https://markmanson.net/manipulative-relationships - post about vulnerability, which is linked to boundaries in that asserting a genuine preference (whatever that preference is) implicitly requires you to be honest, which can be scary
- https://captainawkward.com/category/boundaries-2/ - generally good website about managing personal relations. It's basically an advice column and while some of the cases are *ahem* dramatic instances of wrongness, it also untangles those instances where something rubs you wrong but you don't know what or why or even if it's ok to act on it.
- http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/ - has some good stuff about boundaries, mostly oriented to romantic relationships. Not my style but maybe you'll like it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- resources for borderline personality disorder, people managing life after huge relational abuse/trauma? I suggest it because patients/survivors afaik often find it hard to tell what an appropriate boundary is at all, and maybe some of the advice will be applicable to your situation. Maybe not. I am however in no way, shape or form suggesting that this is a diagnosis that might fit you, or suggesting any diagnosis whatsoever. Just brainstorming.
Thanks for all the info; I do find divorce a crisis situation and now I've considered myself for a few months now in 'post-divorce recovery" so to speak since so much went wrong during it, but a lot of my values have changed since too, like i find myself rejecting a few important choices i'd made during my marriage ( a bad marriage anyhow), and so on, maybe a life phases thing and yes, i'll bookmark some sites listed.
I set solid boundaries. If they still try to cross a line I explode in anger. I am also very good about not crossing other peoples' boundaries, so I demand the same respect. I don't ask or negotiate, I demand. I do not do for others what they can do for themselves, I don't tell grown ass adults what they already or should already know. That's why I don't try to reason with unreasonable people, you are not going to hear me explain to an adult how to treat people, they are smart enough to have already figured out how to respect others. So I don't whine or complain, or grovel, I cuss them out and move on. Why am I like this? I lived a tough life and I was abused and learned the hard way how to set boundaries. Guess what? Turns out people respect you more when you unleash the bitch when needed. Most of the time it only takes one glance from me for a person to instantly regret saying or doing something against me.
LSI-Se 836 Sp/Sx
"No, I'm not going to do that." (they might then try to beg or plead but I just remain firm)
"I don't really care to hear about that right now." (Not always said nicely, but sometimes you have to not be nice to get your point across and to remain your peaceful sense of self.)
"Just because I am being quiet right now doesn't mean I am open to being a dumping ground to your problems. I didn't sign up to be an emotional tampon here lol."
I've noticed people who break boundaries always dump their problems and baggage on you, but are never there when you need some support or help. They instead are very cruel and have ways of making *you* feel like shit about your own human vulnerabilities, when you need some help or assistance. So I have found just limiting contact with these individuals is the best. It's important to be assertive, because they are always looking for weak willed and naive people to manipulate and abuse. You can't really give them any leeway, because doing so always ends up hurting yourself psychologically. It's pretty dark and fucked up. They are toxic energy vampires that just take and take and take.
Thanks for this, I'm also having some issues differentiating between feelings, like an amalgam of them and i don't always know on the spot where they come from - like the source; as time passes things clarify but it does cause a temporary 'block' as to how to respond to any aggravations such as the ones you mention. I sometimes hesitate to respond for fear of misidentifying the source. Other times it's damn clear lol
I don't really have a lot of boundaries in the sense of allowing certain people to do certain things and other people not to. That seems like an FiSe thing. I do have standards though, and a sense of whether someone is taking more than they're giving. In that case I will adjust the relationship accordingly.
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