P!nk (and general comments on Ti vs Fi)

[Joy]

I know SLE is the most common typing for her. I don't entirely understand why. I'm never 100% sure of anyone's type, but I'm 100% sure P!nk is SEE. The defining difference between Fi and Ti is that Fi is personal and Ti is detached. P!nk is personal af. Fi is self-referential, too. It understands the world based on how it's personal to them. Even when they're being fair and impartial, they're still also processing it from a personal perspective (however compartmentalized).

When a Fi ego is trying to understand you, they first take in the info, then figure out how they have felt or would feel in a similar situation, then evaluate how that situation is different from this one, then evaluate how different your character and values are from theirs, then take their best guess at how you must feel. They might talk about how they felt in a similar situation to see if it's similar to how you feel. It comes off to some people as making everything about them.

Anyways. P!nk is SEE, not SLE. Fight me.

https://youtu.be/ocDlOD1Hw9k

[Singu]

I can't ever imagine an SEE writing a song like that...

I don't necessarily think that she's SLE, but she seems Beta.

"You're so misunderstood, boo hoo hoo, you're such an outcast, boo hoo hoo, the whole world misunderstands me boo hoo hoo" - That shit is basically Fe.

I see it as she is trying to readjust the feelings in others - to normalize it. They're feeling "down", so she's trying to make them feel "up". Fi is more sympathy, Fe is more empathy. Fi will rather try to "feel the same" and be "down" themselves. Fe will try to lift them up. That's why Fe is rather attracted to people who are feeling down, the outcasts etc, because they can lift them up - i.e. they have a job to perform with their functions.

Btw, "personal" is not necessarily Fi, it's more IXFx and EXTx - the "yielding" Reinin dichotomy. EXFxs and IXTxs keep their personal feelings guarded.

[Jake]

Fi-creative for sure, but I can easily see her as IEE instead of SEE.
She seems relaxed, willing to go with the flow (Si) vs. putting herself in the spotlight (Se).

[ScarlettLux]

Thanks for making this. It's another typing of SLE I never understood but I just don't have SLEs in my life either.. Same w/ Madonna - why? I think Pink is SEE.

[Joy]

I can't ever imagine an SEE writing a song like that...

I don't necessarily think that she's SLE, but she seems Beta.

"You're so misunderstood, boo hoo hoo, you're such an outcast, boo hoo hoo, the whole world misunderstands me boo hoo hoo" - That shit is basically Fe.

I see it as she is trying to readjust the feelings in others - to normalize it. They're feeling "down", so she's trying to make them feel "up". Fi is more sympathy, Fe is more empathy. Fi will rather try to "feel the same" and be "down" themselves. Fe will try to lift them up. That's why Fe is rather attracted to people who are feeling down, the outcasts etc, because they can lift them up - i.e. they have a job to perform with their functions.

Btw, "personal" is not necessarily Fi, it's more IXFx and EXTx - the "yielding" Reinin dichotomy. EXFxs and IXTxs keep their personal feelings guarded.

Sympathy and empathy are reversed?

I've never heard that about yielding vs obstinate.

The "boo hoo such an outcast thing" is sx/sp imo.

[Joy]

Fi-creative for sure, but I can easily see her as IEE instead of SEE.
She seems relaxed, willing to go with the flow (Si) vs. putting herself in the spotlight (Se).

She's Se as fuck though. :-/ Se lead, Se subtype. If she's not SEE, then I would look at ESI next. Then SLE and I would need to totally scrap my understanding of Fi.

[IEICUCK]

sHe Is Se As FuCk!!

I think she is an E8, Se base, dk about the rest

[Singu]

Sympathy and empathy are reversed?

I've never heard that about yielding vs obstinate.

The "boo hoo such an outcast thing" is sx/sp imo.

Empathy is Fe and sympathy is Fi. Fe deals with more "objective" emotions, like what the other people are feeling. Fi deals with how you feel towards other people or things.

I think SEEs hate to be "losers" or "outcasts" and try very hard to not be one. But Betas are often trying to become outcasts.

I feel like she's more an EIE.

[Jake]

She's Se as fuck though. :-/ Se lead, Se subtype. If she's not SEE, then I would look at ESI next. Then SLE and I would need to totally scrap my understanding of Fi.

Forget about what I said earlier, I agree with you.
ESI did cross my mind but I think Fe-Demonstrative is better fitting than Fe-Ignoring.

[Olimpia]

Entirely agree with OP.

I'd type P!nk as SEE-Se, CP 6w7 Sx/So.

This kind of SEE almost always seems to be Beta/SLE.

[Chae]

Dear Mr. President, Stupid Girl, Try (!), Just Give Me A Reason (!!!), Nobody Knows, Family Portrait - that all seems more Fi to me. Find me a SLE singing about "True Love"!





An Fe valuer would avoid interpersonal agony and complication like this at all cost.

I also think of Carey Hart as her Supervisor. Otherwise, there would be fewer issues.

[Olimpia]

Dear Mr. President, Stupid Girl, Try (!), Just Give Me A Reason (!!!), Nobody Knows, Family Portrait - that all seems more Fi to me. Find me a SLE singing about "True Love"!





An Fe valuer would avoid interpersonal agony and complication like this at all cost.

I also think of Carey Hart as her Supervisor. Otherwise, there would be fewer issues.

Yes! I was just about to say, he seems to be an LSI-Se.
Knowing about Socionics, it is interesting to see how much troubles they've had with their relationship, being in Supervision.
But also, it shows how if you really love someone, you'll make it work, even if the ITR is troublesome.

[Olimpia]

The issue of typing people like P!nk, is the fact they seem to fit into a certain Quadra's stereotypes, so they will be typed as that Quadra.

Because she is "edgy", "rebellious", and so forth (being CP 6w7), and is Se lead, she gets pegged as SLE almost automatically.

And people overlook signs that show she actually uses and values Fi... Etc.

[Chae]

The issue of typing people like P!nk, is the fact they seem to fit into a certain Quadra's stereotypes, so they will be typed as that Quadra.

Because she is "edgy", "rebellious", and so forth (being CP 6w7), and is Se lead, she gets pegged as SLE almost automatically.

And people overlook signs that show she actually uses and values Fi... Etc.

I thought the very same thing. Her archetype was misinterpreted, also aided by her subtype as you said. Tritype-wise: 682 or 683, what do you think?

[Singu]

Dear Mr. President, Stupid Girl, Try (!), Just Give Me A Reason (!!!), Nobody Knows, Family Portrait - that all seems more Fi to me. Find me a SLE singing about "True Love"!

An Fe valuer would avoid interpersonal agony and complication like this at all cost.

Um... Madonna.

Sorry, but things like "SLEs don't talk about love" "Fe valuers avoid interpersonal agony" are only based on bad stereotypes...

[Rhaegar]

None of the things mentioned in her songs reflect Fi at all. Fi is about personal attitudes and values, not general values and emotions. All the songs listed strike me as Fe related. All about current emotions and and feelings "we can learn to love again". Fi doesn't operate on a flexible level like that. Extroverted judgement plays on real time emotions and consensus. Fi is a planned and less flexible approach to relationships, "is he a good person? can he be trusted?" Even in the case of creative Fi like SEE's, it would not come out like this. Plus her songs all sound like a negativist logical approach to love: "just give me a reason, just a little bit's enough" "We're not broken just bent, and we can learn to love again", or even "I really hate you, so much it must be true love". SEE is not reasoning like this, look at Adele: She just states facts in her songs, then amplifies them with her personal feelings "never mind I'll find, someone like you", "I'll set fire, to the rain" ..."Let it burn while I cry" -The emotions referenced are static, she is sad, angry, etc. In Pink's songs she is suggesting how emotions are dynamic: How love can change, how people can come to love each other, how they can work it out. It is a fundamental difference in approach to feeling. Pink is obviously Fe valuing, at the very least. And seems Se lead too. I think SLE is right on.

[Singu]

Um... I don't necessarily think that Fi is about state of emotions, that's more Fe. Fi usually describes the state of relationships, the closeness/distance between two people, how two people feel about each other and how much you need someone.

I don't know many Fi songs, but here's an example:

"Everytime"

Notice me
Take my hand
Why are we
Strangers when
Our love is strong
Why carry on without me?

Everytime I try to fly
I fall without my wings
I feel so small
I guess I need you baby
And everytime I see you in my dreams
I see your face, it's haunting me
I guess I need you baby

I make believe
That you are here
It's the only way
I see clear
What have I done
You seem to move on easy

I may have made it rain
Please forgive me
My weakness caused you pain
And this song's my sorry

At night I pray
That soon your face
Will fade away

It's interesting that she almost never describes the state of her feelings in that song, but just 1) The state of a relationship (stranger vs lover) 2) How much she needs him 3) How small she feels 4) How much she thinks she screwed up the relationship, and how she wants to mend it. All this without referencing to her state of her feelings, like "I'm sad" or "I feel lonely".

Btw, thinking that she screwed something up and wanting to make it all better somehow, is typical of SEEs.

[flames]

She's SEE for sure lmao