Duality When Unhealthy

[The Reality Denialist]

What is unhealthy?
Would dual help to overcome the obstacles?

[Audacious]

I really enjoy the mutual helping that emerges from base Fe + base Ti bonding, but only if it meets certain healthy conditions.

In my experience, unhealthy duals (ESE) and semi-duals (EIE) become overwhelming, irritating, emotionally debilitating for me and finally I end up cutting them out of my life because I need healthy Fe bonding and growth. If their Fe has absorbed multiple longterm negative patterns, then I not only have to deal with my Fe seeking needs but also their persistent unhealthy ones (violating boundaries, rapid and intense emotional ups and downs, feeling entitled to my secrets, lack of healthy give and take, living vicariously through my life, expecting me to reassure them endlessly). There are healthier ways to use Ti than to try to resolve someone else's never ending drama just because they feel entitled to my time, energy and friendship/love.

I suspect it would be the same way for ExE if an unhealthy LxI creates a framework for their life based on some bizarre or twisted perspective.

Edit: If my duals are using their stronger functions (1) in an unhealthy way in their own life or (2) using them against me to gain an advantage, then it's repulsive because it emphasizes our differences in a bad way. But if they're struggling with their lower dimension functions in some way, then it's easier for me (and quite enjoyable) to step in and fix the issue or help them learn how to do it themselves. I wouldn't consider that unhealthy, just ill-equipped to handle certain things

[Glare]

The more I read up on duality the less I believe in it because of how "unnatural" it appears to a lot of types.

My question simply is....
When one or both types are unhealthy, can duality become as bad as a conflictor relationship?
It is hard to tell your dual partner if you are unhealthy?
How can you tell the difference immediately between dual/conflictor? I've also seen people confused on that and I feel like if it really were valid, wouldn't it be extremely easy to tell the difference?

1. Not in my experience.

2. When an individual is "unhealthy" doesn't that individual hold beliefs and preoccupations that essentially prevent them from fully being their natural selves, like theirs something dimming the light of their personality so to speak... and your duals are attracted to your authentic persona. it doesn't matter if that person is my dual or not, but it is easier. I know myself when I'm unhealthy, it's still always smoother interacting with my duals than a conflictor.

3. A lot of people may be mistyping themselves and others so.. in my experience I can usually tell my dual and conflictor apart after having a couple of interactions. Their is a sense on my side when talking with a conflictor, that you can't really open up to them or talk about your interests at length without them looking at you like your strange or being shut down. They are similarily perplexed by you. Where as you sense your dual can really see and hear you when you are interacting.

Edit: I'm not implying however that an unhealthy abusive dual is going to be good for you either though.. like the ESE-borderline subtype Audacious is describing above me, some duals can really harm your health and make it impossible to have a relationship with them.

[bolong]

I edited my post for instructions on how to agree with an LSE and not get into a fight. Remember LsE wants to be the daddy, he wants to teach you the ways, so when he speaks he wants you to listen, learn lol repeat and be the good student. I like being the instructor too lol

gross, why would you spell out instructions on appeasing anyone.

Also an LSE, as an EJ, actually benefits from the leadership and guidance of an IJ, who are focused and steady where the EJ is scattered. So I sympathize more with @Saoirse and the frustration with people who don't realize (usually extrotims) they are using 1d function against someone's 4d function

[bolong]

You're right, I absolutely abhor arguments. That's why I hate that he always picks fights with me. We only argue for hours because we are duals, I think. I don't argue with anyone except at a very close psychological distance, which could only be achieved by this guy through his Te/LSEness (and his love of some of my EII traits, such as my moral certainty, reliability, non-judgmental nature, openness to new ideas, and understanding of him--in retrospect, it's odd he said I understand him so well, considering he doesn't seem to think I understand anything else well--but I suppose that's the only area where he can first-hand experience my Fi and confirm for himself that it's correct).

I rather did have the key to him, in the sense that I used to do exactly what you said in terms of handling his penchant for picking fights. But as @sockpuppet pointed out, it was torture, and he never was more receptive even after he had some time to calm down. Even if you have the key to everyone, you don't necessarily enjoy using it, and I don't think there is a duty to keep using it on people who don't even appreciate it.

It's interesting that the tendency has been to suggest that my experience with him is not duality. I understand the inclination to doubt others' typings (I personally doubt others' typings a lot, lol), but I'm confident that I am EII and he is LSE--he has lead Te and creative Si out the wazoo.

Sorry to have hijacked the thread a bit, but at least this is a pretty detailed example of what the OP was asking about! Ultimately I agree with @GuavaDrunk and @Rebelondeck. Maturity/mental health is very important.

Edit to clarify what I think we mean when we say "key": having the key to harmonize relations in the moment is not the same as having the key to change someone for the better. We can advise our LSEs/friends in general as best we can, but it is up to them to listen to the advice. EIIs are especially bad at coercing others into doing what they say, after all.

The LSE-EII pair are both pedantic, which might explain why you can argue for hours. Though EII is very non-confrontational but in the same situation an IEI or other IP would not push the issue, out of lack of stamina/caring

[Bertrand]

argument between duals should not have the negative character the same argument would have with other types, if outwardly people judge it as negative it may just be them not understanding why that way of interaction is in fact quite comfortable for the duo. most people in dual relationships can have protracted discussions wherein they disagree and come away feeling better and not worn down. duality by its nature relaxes the parties. if this isn't happening its a cop out to call it "unhealth"; while I'm sure a psychotic dual would be uncomfortable to be around, its far more likely there's just a mistype, since duality is the vehicle that generally unwinds the kind of psychic tension that leads to neuroses, so it would be a pretty unhealthy person that duality couldn't relax. if there's a sufficient amount of these "unhealthy" types around, who can't even get along with their dual, it raises the question why they haven't murdered their conflictors yet. obviously "unhealth" to the degree presupposed here is not nearly as common as imagined, because society would cease to function with people running around who fight with their single most psychologically compatible relation in any number beyond whatever the proportion of we might call the criminally insane people is in society

[powerrainbowcrystal]

@fox

wow that screen capture of courtney love with kurt is really interesting.. she is sooo SLE lmao. She has her arm around him like he's her little bitch- which he is. It's interesting to me but also really weird. It feels unnatural tbh, like in my perfect heteronormative world only males get to be SLE, and only females get to be IEI. (for straight people I mean - I'm allowed to be an IEI with the girls.) That is obviously not the case, however. Thanks for the vids though- as they are such a perfect example of a str8 female SLE/str8 male IEI duality couple.