Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: Caregivers as "childlike"

  1. #1
    sorrowsofyoungwerther's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    TIM
    ESE- Fe
    Posts
    235
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Caregivers as "childlike"

    I'm an ESE and the childlike description suits me much better than the caregiver description.
    Alternatively I know of an IEE who is much more a caretaker than "child like".
    That said all the LSE and SLI I know are caretakers but some types in the Delta and Alpha quadras that are deemed caregivers seem like infantiles and vice versa.

    Any thoughts on this?
    “Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.”



  2. #2
    Haikus
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    TIM
    enfp
    Posts
    393
    Mentioned
    26 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Idk but I like this because it removes the only real obstacle in the way of me being ESE.

  3. #3
    Nothing in the cage of my ribcage Singularity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    Social/SP 4-5-1
    Posts
    1,311
    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It's said that both attitudes typically exist in a person, and you alternate between the two.

  4. #4
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,880
    Mentioned
    302 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    Any thoughts on this?
    Could be a couple of things.

    Subtypes. Fe-ESE has stronger Ne hidden agenda and will project as being more "childlike" than Si-ESE. Ti-LIIs will sometimes behave in a serious and delta-ST manner. IEE-Fi will be more of a "caregiver" than IEE-Ne. In dualities of different subtypes the roles are almost flipped around.

    Another thing is that socionics is not the only typology out there. Other typologies also contribute to one's image, and sometimes their associated traits will run contrary to what is predicted in socionics. For example, with instincts Sp is associated with childhood, Sx - with adulthood, and Soc - with mature age. Certain enneagram types are described as more carefree, playful, imaginative (e.g. 7) and others as more serious, having gravitas (e.g. 8). So, for instance, if you have an IEE so/sp 6 that person is going to project themselves closer to what's described of socionics "caring" types when compared to an IEE sp/sx 2.

  5. #5
    sorrowsofyoungwerther's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    TIM
    ESE- Fe
    Posts
    235
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Could be a couple of things.

    Subtypes. Fe-ESE has stronger Ne hidden agenda and will project as being more "childlike" than Si-ESE. Ti-LIIs will sometimes behave in a serious and delta-ST manner. IEE-Fi will be more of a "caregiver" than IEE-Ne. In dualities of different subtypes the roles are almost flipped around.
    This makes perfect sense. My friend who is quite "maternal" in her style of interaction is an IEE-Fi. Recently I used an artificial sweetener in my drink and the IEE-Fi said: "You shouldn't do that! Those are bad for you." I would have almost assumed she was an ESE if I didn't know better.

    LSEs and SLIs seem to always be paternal/maternal as opposed to childlike but with the IEE, EII, ESE there seems to be more flipping around and you are right about the Ne HA.
    “Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.”



  6. #6
    Rebelondeck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    333
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ESEs are caregivers in the sense of being able to empathize with someone's plight and trying to offer advice and do things to resolve their issues; they're more dutiful than nurturing. They can be so focused on others that they sometimes ignore themselves and thus can need someone else to look after them; and they also seek interaction with others to resolve their own issues. These tendencies can make ESE appear childlike at times but this is an illusion; one merely has to dig deeper into processing structure/motivation. I see IEE as potentially much more nurturing than ESE but not nearly as dutiful; IEEs can be somewhat naïve (childlike) regarding the needs of others so the title caregiver would not really fit them as much as it would ESE - your perception of what would be caregiver and childlike seems to different from mine but I wouldn't attach these words to type because they can be rather misleading......

    a.k.a. I/O

  7. #7
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,368
    Mentioned
    154 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I will join the chorus to say i also act childlike sometimes - often it's to bring a lightheartedness to the ambiance. My mentality is not immature though and i wont act immature, so this does not include things like temper tantrums if i dont get my way. Just a lighthearted childlikeness, superficially, like e.g. joking in a baby voice or something. I also tend to default to an innocent view of the world, but in some cases not - like I was not gullible at all about DT & gang, saw the evil potential from day #1 (even before day #1). But was a bit innocent in the sense that i assumed the vast majority of people in the US would see through his act.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  8. #8
    Soupman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Grand Britain
    TIM
    Dyslexic 17
    Posts
    324
    Mentioned
    25 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    I'm an ESE and the childlike description suits me much better than the caregiver description.
    Alternatively I know of an IEE who is much more a caretaker than "child like".
    That said all the LSE and SLI I know are caretakers but some types in the Delta and Alpha quadras that are deemed caregivers seem like infantiles and vice versa.

    Any thoughts on this?
    I find this to be true and it was listed by Socionics Britannica a couple of months ago.

  9. #9
    Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    IEE-Fi 378 SX/SO
    Posts
    4,541
    Mentioned
    308 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    True caregiving/infantile relations are between Ni and Si leads, especially in Alpha since Delta has the concept of pseudo-caregiving/infantile. Having Si or Ne in the creative position sort of creates a diffusion.
    Wut /squints/ Need to metabolize this.

    .

  10. #10
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    TIM
    Se-LSI
    Posts
    1,471
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I generally think the erotic styles are overblown, but slater had an interesting take on them: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ays-every-role

  11. #11
    sorrowsofyoungwerther's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    TIM
    ESE- Fe
    Posts
    235
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    I generally think the erotic styles are overblown, but slater had an interesting take on them: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ays-every-role
    This is good:

    EGO FUNCTIONS:

    Physical aggressor, spiritual infantile

    Physical caregiver, spiritual victim

    Physical infantile, spiritual aggressor

    Physical victim, spiritual caregiver

    Mental aggressor, emotional infantile

    Mental caregiver, emotional victim

    Mental infantile, emotional aggressor

    Mental victim, emotional caregiver
    “Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.”



  12. #12
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,368
    Mentioned
    154 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    What is a spiritual victim?
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  13. #13
    shining's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    TIM
    LII 964 Sp/Sx
    Posts
    106
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    What is a spiritual victim?
    Someone looking for being shaken in its beliefs ?

  14. #14
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    TIM
    Se-LSI
    Posts
    1,471
    Mentioned
    65 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    What is a spiritual victim?
    Quote Originally Posted by 1981slater
    In this case, "protect"=Caregiver>Infantile and "make happy"=Aggressor>Victim

    What is an aggressor? Someone who's good at something (mental, emotional, spiritual or physical field) and likes to show it, specially to the victims.

    A caregiver? Someone who's good at something but prefers to keep a low profile and help infantiles to keep up.

    A victim? Someone who's bad at something but wants to improve this weak trait and "challenge the aggressor".

    An infantile? Someone who's bad at something and is not interested in enhancing such weak trait-not even in let others know about the very existence of the weak trait, but prefers and welcomes a caregiver's help.
    spiritual is just the word he used for anything in the realms of Ni or Ne

  15. #15
    Nothing in the cage of my ribcage Singularity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    Social/SP 4-5-1
    Posts
    1,311
    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Si changes oneself physically to adapt to others, so therefore "care-taking" (like a parent sacrificing him/herself physically for the child)
    Ne mentally demands others to adapt to its ways, therefore "infantile" (like a child that demands parents to get his/her way)

    Ni changes oneself mentally to adapt to others, so therefore "victim" (an indecisive, self-sacrificing adult)
    Se physically demands others to adapt to its ways, therefore "aggressor" (like a bossy authority)
    Quadra complexes by Stratiyevskaya: Alpha - Closed Mouth | Beta - Subservience | Gamma - Tied Hands | Delta - Clipped Wings

    Gulenko's (very good) type descriptions
    Stratiyevskaya's type descriptions

  16. #16
    Breaking stereotypes Suz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    On a chatbox diet
    TIM
    IDK
    Posts
    6,368
    Mentioned
    154 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    spiritual is just the word he used for anything in the realms of Ni or Ne
    well i got as much from that post - my question was how exactly would that manifest. Shining suggested someone looking to be shaken in their beliefs. Any other thoughts?
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

  17. #17
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,771
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    SLI and LSEs are like little boys

  18. #18
    Nothing in the cage of my ribcage Singularity's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    TIM
    Social/SP 4-5-1
    Posts
    1,311
    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    SLI and LSEs are like little boys
    No that's the Ne types. Ne types are usually spoiled as children, because they demand that they get want they want. Ne types are like little boys and girls.

    While Si and Ni types usually stay in the background, seemingly not wanting anything for themselves.

    Tsk tsk... shameful.

  19. #19
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,771
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    No that's the Ne types. Ne types are usually spoiled as children, because they demand that they get want they want. Ne types are like little boys and girls.

    While Si and Ni types usually stay in the background, seemingly not wanting anything for themselves.

    Tsk tsk... shameful.
    No they are like little boys because they want to play with motorcycles and not adult responsibilities hahah

  20. #20
    Darn Socks Director Abbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Southwest USA
    TIM
    LSE
    Posts
    6,660
    Mentioned
    206 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    This is good:

    EGO FUNCTIONS:

    Physical aggressor, spiritual infantile

    Physical caregiver, spiritual victim

    Physical infantile, spiritual aggressor

    Physical victim, spiritual caregiver

    Mental aggressor, emotional infantile

    Mental caregiver, emotional victim

    Mental infantile, emotional aggressor

    Mental victim, emotional caregiver
    Yes, this is good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    What is a spiritual victim?
    I'm not sure, but I still relate to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    No they are like little boys because they want to play with motorcycles and not adult responsibilities hahah
    I have no interest in playing with motorcycles.

    ESTj
    1w2 sp/so 1-2-6
    Brilliand's Younger Sister
    Squishy's Older Sister

    Johari Nohari

    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

  21. #21
    sorrowsofyoungwerther's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    TIM
    ESE- Fe
    Posts
    235
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    SLI and LSEs are like little boys
    Really? They seem so paternal to me. At least the males do.
    “Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things, man will not himself find peace.”



  22. #22
    Haikus Beautiful sky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    EII land
    TIM
    EII INFj
    Posts
    22,771
    Mentioned
    531 Post(s)
    Tagged
    6 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    Yes, this is good.


    I'm not sure, but I still relate to it.


    I have no interest in playing with motorcycles.
    We should get into it together

  23. #23
    Syynth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Behind enemy lines
    TIM
    LII-Ti
    Posts
    98
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    This is good:

    EGO FUNCTIONS:

    Physical aggressor, spiritual infantile

    Physical caregiver, spiritual victim

    Physical infantile, spiritual aggressor

    Physical victim, spiritual caregiver

    Mental aggressor, emotional infantile

    Mental caregiver, emotional victim

    Mental infantile, emotional aggressor

    Mental victim, emotional caregiver
    This is a huge improvement over the original erotic styles.

  24. #24
    glue-like mass unsuccessfull Alphamale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Land of Fe PoLR
    TIM
    ILE-Ne (π)w(e)
    Posts
    876
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Matter of degree and you supposedly like that mentality...
    Let's think of case like this:
    Someone is pressuring LII. ESE reacts and takes care of it.
    ILE is all over the place. SEI: Let's turn that shirt inside out, your shoelaces are open, put socks on, your hat is crooked and does not cover your ears...
    From me one can not demand and expect:
    • practicality of ideas;
    • punctuality and diligence;
    • consistency and completeness;
    • constant order in the home and in the workplace;
    • quality of routine work;
    • soft skills to adapt to the interlocutor.


    Anal Expulsive personality (no hyphens for you)

    So called false dual logic that actually reveals some remote potentials:
    "sure crocodiles can fly, but very, very close to the ground"
    Just think about it.

  25. #25
    glue-like mass unsuccessfull Alphamale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Land of Fe PoLR
    TIM
    ILE-Ne (π)w(e)
    Posts
    876
    Mentioned
    17 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think that need for combustible engines is common among all STs. I know one who attached tractor's engine to a bicycle when he was a child.... He recommends it to nobody.
    From me one can not demand and expect:
    • practicality of ideas;
    • punctuality and diligence;
    • consistency and completeness;
    • constant order in the home and in the workplace;
    • quality of routine work;
    • soft skills to adapt to the interlocutor.


    Anal Expulsive personality (no hyphens for you)

    So called false dual logic that actually reveals some remote potentials:
    "sure crocodiles can fly, but very, very close to the ground"
    Just think about it.

  26. #26
    Slugabed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    TIM
    ISTp 9w8
    Posts
    239
    Mentioned
    56 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    According my experience, I think that the goal of this relationship isnt to stay on the role of caregiver (SLI) and a childlike (IEE)…actually I think that the goal is to break this molds/shapes that IEE and SLI developed early on life. I mean, IEE stayed on this Peter Pan state (resisting/afraid to grow up, -the narcissistic tendencies are this narcissistic needs and ego from the childhood) as his primary way of interacting with the external world without being hurt, while the SLI did exactly the opposite… wished or needed grew up faster, because he/she wasnt allowed being a "child" anymore or was forced to taking care of him/her self sooner on life (or he/herself ego was neglected), which lead to seek for comfort/pleasure/avoidance/restrain (hedonistic tendencies) as response later. SLI the child was hurt, being an adult doesnt hurt him anymore, IEE the child was loved and free, being an adult restrict their (emotional) freedom, IEE the adult was hurt. They recognize on each other this "state" that they are subconsciously yearning to achieve/complete.

    They would "force" each other to do things that they are afraid of. SLI would be forced to being a "child" again (letting free emotions), while IEE would be forced to be an "adult" (taking responsibilities) for communicating or achieving something on this relationship. Other way of this happening, is SLI hurting the childlike IEE (hurting his own inner child, forcing him to disappear), while IEE hurting this parenting figure that SLI represent (and hurting his/her (him/herself) own adult figure)... on this circumstances they can switch papers too. This could be used as a "punishment" and as a "rest" for each other's role... they are saying to each other: "this time you'll know how does it feel", its a "playful"(harmless) and useful revenge. SLI is now this nasty kid (he is resting) while IEE is this strict parent, both of them pushing themselves to "incarnate" this foreign role (it can be comical because often the roles are being exaggerated due the alienation). Of course all of this goes subconsciously.

    For this, they first would fit their "roles", SLI would take care of IEE and IEE would be this child. After that , they would start to "exchange" roles…. I don't know how the relationship develop after this point, but I suspect that there is a time when both "merge" with each other, keeping a balance within childlike/caregiver tendencies, I mean, being equals and fulfilling this natural roles and being successful at living (like adults) and parenthood (actually SLI and IEE are two of the least on getting married and having kids according some sources).


    About this...

    Physical caregiver, spiritual victim

    Physical infantile, spiritual aggressor


    @Singularity is right.

    I think that spiritual could be "moral", have this tendency of stepping on what I consider being moral and good. They seem to show a disdain(not care, being childish) for how things should be (according myself). I dont think that the explanation provided by 1981slater is really accurate. And of course it has nothing to do with "Someone looking for being shaken in its beliefs ?", at least not my case, lol.


    Edit. I want to add that its important to consider that we are talking about Romancing or Erotic styles, not attitudes or approaches to daily life with everybody, everytime. I've noticed that some ppl have a tendency to confuse this romancing styles as a common attitude on people when its not supposed to be like that. I mean, being a caregiver doesnt mean that he/she is trying/wanting to take care of everybody all the time, we need to make the proper distinctions on topics and matters. Its a terrible mistake to think romancing/erotic styles are the way that someone communicate/interact with the outside world. On this sense we could find that a IEE could care of a friend or even a strange, while a SLI could be extremely careless about someone. Also the Romancing styles could manifest mostly with the complementary (duality) on this case.
    I.e. I've had romantic partners with whom I wasnt (and not wanted to)be a caregiver at all.

    This romancing styles/tendencies manifests naturally when dealing with natural partners, thats why this relationships are complementary, fulfilling and special.
    Last edited by Slugabed; 02-25-2017 at 04:18 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •