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Thread: The suggestive element! Vs PoLR

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    Default The suggestive element! Vs PoLR

    The element of love!

    When the person is walking around people, communicating and exchange information or even processing the world around them they fail to metabolize elements with weak dimension. At least that is how I view suggestive! Lets go with weak Se, the person who value the element fail to pick up the pieces and metabolize it. Most of the information go past the person. So when dualizing the dual kind of enlighten the person of all this information, already metabolized by someone who also value it. But how is this different from the PoLR? Why is PoLR like "hitting you in the face" while suggestive is slipping by your consciousness?
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    ^◉‧̫̮◉^~♡ Chae's Avatar
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    The PoLR is weak and unvalued (rejected), so you are not and can not be attuned to it. Also, the HA sort of suppresses it. Example from my IM process: Chae gurl sits in advanced math class (TiNe) not getting anything because she thinks all the equations are redundant and have no purpose except if you want to choose that career. Comparison to biology class (TeSi): Chae really loves learning about the practical things and bodies because it helps her in life, epic win
    "The ENFp outlaw lives in the world of "chaos" meaning that he doesn't get surprised by the mayhem he causes or has to deal with in order to accomplish the goal of staying alive. Unlike the strong Si types who notice every tiny detail of pre-conceived madness, he will quite happily do whatever his experimental intuition dictates to survive even if he has to use himself as a "guinea pig" in the process. [...] Strong Ne types like the ENFp outlaw tend to make serendipitous discoveries like finding a creative way of defying death where others would have died if they stuck to "the rules". The long range vision of Ne with a drug-induced short-range Si tactical foreplay reveals the true nature of one's methodical madness i.e. using chaos to stabilize the chaos." x



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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    The PoLR is weak and unvalued (rejected), so you are not and can not be attuned to it. Also, the HA sort of suppresses it. Example from my IM process: Chae gurl sits in advanced math class (TiNe) not getting anything because she thinks all the equations are redundant and have no purpose except if you want to choose that career. Comparison to biology class (TeSi): Chae really loves learning about the practical things and bodies because it helps her in life, epic win
    In this case the PoLR should not be viewed as a slap in the face but something that do not interest the person. I seen IEI's say they are indeed interested in what is efficient.
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    In this case the PoLR should not be viewed as a slap in the face but something that do not interest the person. I seen IEI's say they are indeed interested in what is efficient.
    Slap in the face is more of having your ego functions antagonized. The PoLR IE sort of slips by, you can only apply it to yourself as well so it's not a collective effort. It's more of a hassle than sth very crass, unless you are pressured into it so you fail through your valued functions.
    "The ENFp outlaw lives in the world of "chaos" meaning that he doesn't get surprised by the mayhem he causes or has to deal with in order to accomplish the goal of staying alive. Unlike the strong Si types who notice every tiny detail of pre-conceived madness, he will quite happily do whatever his experimental intuition dictates to survive even if he has to use himself as a "guinea pig" in the process. [...] Strong Ne types like the ENFp outlaw tend to make serendipitous discoveries like finding a creative way of defying death where others would have died if they stuck to "the rules". The long range vision of Ne with a drug-induced short-range Si tactical foreplay reveals the true nature of one's methodical madness i.e. using chaos to stabilize the chaos." x



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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Slap in the face is more of having your ego functions antagonized. The PoLR IE sort of slips by, you can only apply it to yourself as well so it's not a collective effort. It's more of a hassle than sth very crass, unless you are pressured into it so you fail through your valued functions.
    From the past I seen it as something that does not support your hidden agenda therefor you suppress it to highlighten your hidden agenda. tbh I failed to understand most of what you said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    From the past I seen it as something that does not support your hidden agenda therefor you suppress it to highlighten your hidden agenda. tbh I failed to understand most of what you said.
    I said exactly what you summarized just with different words. What's your type? We probably had information element/HA-related confusion right now.
    "The ENFp outlaw lives in the world of "chaos" meaning that he doesn't get surprised by the mayhem he causes or has to deal with in order to accomplish the goal of staying alive. Unlike the strong Si types who notice every tiny detail of pre-conceived madness, he will quite happily do whatever his experimental intuition dictates to survive even if he has to use himself as a "guinea pig" in the process. [...] Strong Ne types like the ENFp outlaw tend to make serendipitous discoveries like finding a creative way of defying death where others would have died if they stuck to "the rules". The long range vision of Ne with a drug-induced short-range Si tactical foreplay reveals the true nature of one's methodical madness i.e. using chaos to stabilize the chaos." x



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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    I said exactly what you summarized just with different words. What's your type? We probably had information element/HA-related confusion right now.
    It would not make that big on an impact on the person. What type do you guess? Im open for suggestions!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    It would not make that big on an impact on the person. What type do you guess? Im open for suggestions!
    NAH! I wanna know the most popular suggestions for you first I didn't observe you properly so far, I want to be aware of the consensus instead.
    "The ENFp outlaw lives in the world of "chaos" meaning that he doesn't get surprised by the mayhem he causes or has to deal with in order to accomplish the goal of staying alive. Unlike the strong Si types who notice every tiny detail of pre-conceived madness, he will quite happily do whatever his experimental intuition dictates to survive even if he has to use himself as a "guinea pig" in the process. [...] Strong Ne types like the ENFp outlaw tend to make serendipitous discoveries like finding a creative way of defying death where others would have died if they stuck to "the rules". The long range vision of Ne with a drug-induced short-range Si tactical foreplay reveals the true nature of one's methodical madness i.e. using chaos to stabilize the chaos." x



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    PoLR is conscious function. You know that you might cross boundaries with it anytime. It probably causes some anxiety.

    Many valuers see as essential component in your ethical realm. For me it is not as I operate on systemic level of understanding thinking cause and effect. I'm actually pretty level headed with my actions. People can trust in me. If there is rule in place I'm going to respect it. There can be certain actions where I can juggle around. Right or wrong? Depends on a judge. In this realm it is important that others acknowledge how that certain person works.

    OTOH if someone wants certain kind of treatment/response it is probably a dead end since you want to put creative in there.
    Meged & Ovcharov: Give the impression that they’re flying in the clouds, may appear childish/naïve. A socially adept conversationalist; read much and are inquisitive, willingly discuss new information with associates and are interested in their opinion. Their seemingly shy demeanour combines with coolness and obstinacy when they begin to defend their point of view. They like to discuss but rarely ever end these disputes in conflict. Often smile at associates without need of an occasion. Use an identical smile when they speak about both, ridiculous and serious, subject matter. Attempt being kind to all and do not take personal offence to remarks. In employment they are patient and, despite forgetfulness, tend to finish work which interests them. Gestures and speech seem either slowed down or accelerated. Pose with ease, appear absent-minded, gait and movements seem uncertain/weak-willed.

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    In order to access your PoLR, you must first switch to your role function. Information must go through your weak role function before reaching your much weaker PoLR. Because of this filter, others can not influence your PoLR directly. This is part of why criticism to your PoLR is so painful. You know that you're not good at using it, it takes a considerable amount of effort to change it, and you would prefer to altogether avoid using it.

    On the contrary, your suggestive function is much more exposed. There are no similar barriers for information to cross, so it can be influenced directly by others. Because it compliments your base function, you actively seek information to stimulate it. Like the PoLR, you're aware that you don't use it well. But rather than being an effort to access, it feels more like a personal ideal that you're striving towards.
    "I do so dearly believe that no half-heartedness and no worldly fear must turn us aside from following the light unflinchingly." -JRR Tolkein

    INFj 9w1

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    My understanding is that the POLR being a conscious unvalued function is something that we are well aware of, weak in, and because we dont value it, get irritated by others' expectations of value for it and their judgement of us being weak at it.

    The hidden agenda is instead an unconscious function, which we do value, but because it's unconscious, we dont realize our weakness in it.

    I could be totally off about this.
    Enneagram: 9w1 6w5 2w3 so/sx

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    Contact/Inert I believe
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If it’s a disease, it’s nobody’s fault. Yay empiricism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by megedy View Post
    In order to access your PoLR, you must first switch to your role function. Information must go through your weak role function before reaching your much weaker PoLR. Because of this filter, others can not influence your PoLR directly. This is part of why criticism to your PoLR is so painful. You know that you're not good at using it, it takes a considerable amount of effort to change it, and you would prefer to altogether avoid using it.

    On the contrary, your suggestive function is much more exposed. There are no similar barriers for information to cross, so it can be influenced directly by others. Because it compliments your base function, you actively seek information to stimulate it. Like the PoLR, you're aware that you don't use it well. But rather than being an effort to access, it feels more like a personal ideal that you're striving towards.
    Why is PoLR protected by role in that way? Your conflictor does have both your role and PoLR in their ego, how does that play out?
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Contact/Inert I believe
    Something that I have observed about the contact and inert subtypes, is that the contact subtype is primarily focused on seeking stimulation for their suggestive function. This primarily manifests in them being attracted to people who have that function in their ego block. They are aware of their weak polr, but they are content to avoid using it whenever possible.

    The inert subtype is more concerned with shielding their polr. This can manifest in them trying to use it as a pseudo creative with their program function. They still don't value their polr, but they are more active in trying to address and or cover up the insecurities that it causes.

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