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Thread: Questionnaire v0.2 (Horatio)

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    @Cosmic Teapot that is quite a bit of activities. But again your journal entry seems to convey a lot of fear/doubtfulness, and it tells more about your thought process than your external behavior will generally.

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    The typing I've suggested already in private, I'll substantiate it here once again.

    ego - The hard facts and needed measures taken without embellishment. Mechanism, expediency, duty of action, the right way to do it, not focused on the social/humanitarian aspects.
    SP/SO - Grounded in needs with the surprise strength of navigating the social realm without much overt focus, circumvents the galvanizing force of bonds, SX.
    5w6 or 6w5 - Observing critic who acutely analyzes from a standpoint of doubt. Fixes at perfection-seeking 1 in the body center. Heart center is last, either 2 or 3.

    There ya go

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    OK, one example. Look at all the references to comfort in your post. Another, look at how you are a conscientious worker. Both are SLI traits. Now ask yourself if you are intentionally a dick to people when you first meet them, which is an ILI trait.
    Also, your avatar pictures are textbook Si.
    Which do you identify more with, Caregiver or Victim?
    This seems pretty simple to me.
    In short: Caregiver by far. I'll explain in a later post and thank you for stopping by explaining your opinion. Your probably my most vocal advocate for the SLI typing and who knows when I would have considered that typing on my own? And I agree, typing on the phone is a pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    The typing I've suggested already in private, I'll substantiate it here once again.

    ego - The hard facts and needed measures taken without embellishment. Mechanism, expediency, duty of action, the right way to do it, not focused on the social/humanitarian aspects.
    SP/SO - Grounded in needs with the surprise strength of navigating the social realm without much overt focus, circumvents the galvanizing force of bonds, SX.
    5w6 or 6w5 - Observing critic who acutely analyzes from a standpoint of doubt. Fixes at perfection-seeking 1 in the body center. Heart center is last, either 2 or 3.

    There ya go
    You and your input are always welcome in my typing thread. "The private message that started it all"

    Quote Originally Posted by sorrows View Post
    SLI!
    An unambiguous typing! Awesome
    Last edited by Cosmic Teapot; 11-29-2017 at 06:42 PM.

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    I've spent some time rereading all possible description about SLI, LSI and ILI as well as their duality descriptions.


    First things first: discard LSI. I understand the arguments that seek for the type and the analysis that is is behind it and at the end there is still the questions: does it fit me? And the answer is no. LSI seek extroverted Feeling of EIE and ESE. They want colorful emotions. And don't. It's the opposite of what I want. When my IEI mother raises her voice in agony, or when she starts talking angrily I feel like jumping out of a window. I literally run away from her and she just follows me like an angry bird or something. I like EIEs and ESEs. In fact I dated both types and we where miserable. With EIEs the attraction is there. But only from afar. As we spent more time together we understand that nothing works. When we're together for to long it's like we're asking for things that the other one can't give or understand. And Victim types are so...complicated.
    ESEs are different. I look up to them and they're sweet and funny and as long as they think I'm LII everything works great. BUt once they understand that I will never react to their bit to warm up a little, sing with them in the car, play along in childish games or participate in conversations that are devout of any seriousness - they start rejecting me. And an Fe rejection is painful. I feel like scum and I just want to hide somewhere and be alone for like forever.


    The ILI descriptions are hard to read and outlandish to me. Their Ni sounds like some magical forecasting tool and I don't have that. Most of my expectations don't work out the way I thought they will. I'm frequently late to meetings and my plans are just shallow probabilities that may or may not take place. I don't even have the vocabulary to describe all the things the Ni supposedly is. I don't understand the threads that are about it.


    And the SEE duality is just painful to imagine. I've been friends with SEEs and it always turns out they they want to be the boss. They brag, they're loud and they worldview is shallow to me. I don't needs someone who gives me energy whatever the ILI needs. I decide for myself when it's time for action. But what I need most is someone who respects my boundaries.


    Let's suppose I am ILI then why do the descriptions lack what is essentially a core of my life? I'm a big sister, the oldest child and the most responsible in the family. Since I can think I was the one who took care of everyone and I do it for free. I don't need to be asked to make someone feel at home but what enrages me is when someone abuses my caring tendencies. My IEI mother does that. She just knows how to manipulate people and make me do extra work and make me feel bad about it. Stratjevskaja has a blog entry about the LSE-IEI conflictor relationship and it essentially mirrors what I talking about.


    ILI's Si ... Listening to the rain and something. That's all? Do you know what's important to me when I paint? The process is important. Not necessarily the picture. I'm not creative anyway. Instead I enjoy to copy things. I look at artwork from masters in their field and think about what kind of technique they used. I enjoy acrylic painting because you have to paint fast, otherwise the colors dry fast and you can't correct your mistakes easily but I miss the smell of oil color. The big drawback with digital painting is that your hand are still clean at the end. With actual color its not like it. There is paint everywhere and you have to clean all your tools and put them away orderly. My set of brushes (I mean good brushes with quality. Not those you get a a dollar store) are probably my most holy possession. I even have my very first brush in there.

    Yes I am doubtful and I have fear but I am also doubtful whether that's type retated. Anger, happiness, other emotions..I have a hard time finding a logical connection between emotional and type. I don't save money to be rich. I save money because I know that I will have to be able to care for my grandmother when my grandfather is gone. I have to be able to care for my mother when my father dies to soon from his recklessness (overweight smoker) and haven't even started to talk about my ILE brother.
    What I find intersting is that I'm doubtful on my own but when I have someone I can protect I'm firm. I know how to put people in their place. The question is: do I want that? Confrontations are tiring.


    I feel stuck. That's the problem. Objectively there is nothing that holds me. I could just back my stuff, be selfish and leave everyone and all the negativity in my live behind and I would run until I find a place where I finally have my peace. My dream is to just sit on top of a mountain, all by myself and stare down on all the little things that are going on below me.


    On my prom I met an IEE again. We both wanted to apply to a college for graphic design. We visited the place, took all the preparing courses, looked at artwork from students... She has super long red hair and at prom she wore an absolutely beautiful long black dress. Nothing formal. It was a very sweet dress that was unconventional and comfortable. And under that dress: sports shoes. Not some stupid stillettos but comfortable shoes that no one would see. That's just one example why she is a free spirit. I loved that idea and on my own I wouldn't do that.
    SEEs try their hardest to impress me or anyone. Ne-ego types don't need to try. I am already impressed. Their whole demeanor is non-threatening and easy and that's what I want.
    Last edited by Cosmic Teapot; 01-07-2018 at 01:05 PM. Reason: removed image

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    You and your inout is always welcome in my typing thread. "The private message that started it all"
    So glad about it All the love sis, no problem. About narrowing it down, ILI and SLI > LSE and LIE. Your blog showcases your talent at rather than the strong creative/demo intuition of LIE or strong creative/demo sensing of LSE. I look at the axis of the Model A that is strongest there since it combines the ego block and a 4D element, without having the other half of for instance intuition muted: the ignoring of ILI and IEI would be an example, they can't fully express both intuitions. That's how I knew I was IEE as well, my strong axis merges and alike. For you I'm thinking the logical axis has the most capability

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    Quote Originally Posted by reverie View Post
    I think XLI-Te doesn't sound like a bad typing. LSI would be my next guess.

    I do agree your writing does seem more static>dynamic, though. Something in your writing style I can relate to. Don't know exactly what it is. I'm not saying we are similar, but I get a sense of familiarity for some reason.

    I really like your aesthetic taste. Avatars and the fashion inspo thread. A lot of things you've chosen in your avatars are things I had pinned before or liked, more so than anyone else on the forum. I don't know if thats relevant or not, but I supppse it could be.
    Thanks for posting.

    I don't think that trying to differentiate between dynamic and static in my posts is a good typing indicator. I rewrite my posts several times to make them barely readable. And then there are the people who claim it sounds like dominant Ti, the next one claims it's clearly F and another says it's inferior thinking. English class taught me to write an analysis, not letters, stories or a diary entry. My German texts wouldn't sound like that and if I write a post in Russian (my actual mother language) everyone would think that I am either retarded or a bot because there my vocabulary is even worse.

    About my the fashion instpo thread: the appreciation is mutual
    Last edited by Cosmic Teapot; 11-29-2017 at 09:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarper View Post
    LSI maybe.

    Whichever it is you seem very driven which is a commendable trait. SLIs tend to have a little bit of a need for closeness (Fi HA same as ILI) so to look for some closeness and loyalty of associations, even with colleagues sometimes, but you seem very interested in what you can get, so not bogged down by touches of sentiment that way.

    Also, your consistency, you seem to be able to do the same thing day in and out, not sure where the 'irrationality' of perceiving type over judgement type creeps in.

    That said, you're calm too and there's good arguments for XLI. What have your type results being saying? Often it's the earliest ones that are right - the more you know the system, the easier it is to fake socionic tests, consciously or otherwise.
    I'm not consistent. I have a flexible working schedule and at work I have different assignments everyday. I come and go as I please (set number of hours per week) and I prefer it that way


    My first MBTI type result when I was 15 or 16 was INFP and I forgot what came after that. With socionics I have the problem that I can make the results look like anything. When I first came here the results said ISFj. Later some users suggested INFj and ENFp and so did the test results. Then I considered LSI and the test results came out that way. The two most recent tests where SLI and I've posted them in other threads but I don't consider tests to be a viable option anymore. If they were conclusive we wouldn't make these kind of typing threads and no none would suggest V.I.
    The types that I've never got as a result are: ESE, SEE; EIE, IEI, SEI, SLE, LIE
    Last edited by Cosmic Teapot; 11-29-2017 at 10:18 PM.

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    @Syrup, moved from Random Thought Thread

    I will respect your wish to be not quoted. I knew that you would react with a long explanation of your own viewpoint because you have good reasons to do so. However you've got some of your facts about me wrong and I have every right to correct them.

    The reason why I continued this typing thread was because I couldn't dare to voice my personal experiences and opinions without having to expect them to be devalued. There was no way I could say anything without Sol sharing his unsolicited advice, Scarper sharing his irritating rants, or you saying "That's not like me".
    I was foolish to think that filling out a questionnaire, twice, making a video, giving everyone the chance to have an opinion about my type would settle the issue a little bit. But the type does not matter. With a different type I wouldn't write this post to you but to someone else.

    You had every right to be aynnoyed by comparisons to someone's ex-wife. I also find it annoying, because I am my own person and I'd rather not deal with Adam's perception of being a twin of another person. Your behavior however is not less frustrating. Instead of saying that I'm not the same you repeatedly say that you're type X and because I am not like you I can't be type X. And although you say that you don't care you are more vocal about it than Sol, Scarper and Bertrand combined.
    Again you can and IMO should make your stance about the ex-wife issue clear everytime you think it's needed. My problem is that you position yourself as the hallmark for the SLI type which is wrong. The individual does not make the type. The (many) descriptions do. This thread came to the point where the most plausible types where LSI, ILI and SLI and I decided what works best for me.

    Our opinions are different because we've made different experiences. You have close male friends. That's good for you. In fact I envy you because I estranged from one of my closest friends (ILI) since I quit the friendship with his SEE girlfriend for reasons that are not type related. Two people can share the same sociotype (I don't care about subtype, that's a field of no interest to me) and have different opinions. The combination of sociotype+subtype+enneagram+tritype+instinctual stacking somehow tries to capture that but they will never be able describe what makes an individual.

    My SLI friend: The quote is: "a bit helpless". You could've asked for clarification, instead you’re making your own assumptions. I can't and I won't expect you to memorize and read everything but some of what you keep in memory is just wrong.

    Yes, I've shortly dated an IEE. He chose an apprenticeship in a field that later turned out to be unsuitable for him. He then chose to study in social science to become a social worker. By the time he finished his degree with no prospect of work in our current job market he would've been almost 30. I can’t allow myself to chose attraction over reason. Not before I am a responsible adult with reasonable financial security myself. Do I regret that I will never meet him again? Yes, but at the time it was the right decision. Also there is no reason to believe that duality is a perfect match. People separate for a number of reasons.

    The first LIE boss was the founder of a startup. Someone I knew from school. I was a bloody beginner in programming, totally inexperienced in anything with quite a few character flaws. On a personal level we were all right but when it came to teaching me the technical skills and coordinate work we experienced more problems with time. I needed to learn the skills and understand the matter first. He discarded every step of my progress for the sake of experimenting. He created an environment that was unsuitable for anyone who wanted to be serious about coding. (Stratiyevskaya describes those problems in her blog entry on socionika-forever, LIE-EIE differences) In total it's a story about two young people who did not know what they were doing.
    The second boss hired me instantly after the first interview. There were no problems. I don't know where you've got that from.

    The SEI was a kind individual. I felt like we understood one another and we had similar interests. On a closer distance we had our problems. I pursued many different types before it turned out to be a bad idea.

    About me being too nice and correct to be 1D Fe: In that case we could type the entire population of Japan as 2D Fe and higher. You just completely dismissed my experience with Fe-dom types. I see politeness as the basis for less conflict on the forum. It's far too easy to sound rude when we're restricted to communication via words.

    You’ve edited your post a few times to be respectful and you're right: I do feel annoyed because I disagree with your opinion that my perception is dependent on someone's association of me with his ex-wife as if I'm not able to form my own conclusions. That to me is condescending.
    Last edited by Cosmic Teapot; 01-07-2018 at 03:18 PM. Reason: wording

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post


    The ILI descriptions are hard to read and outlandish to me. Their Ni sounds like some magical forecasting tool and I don't have that. Most of my expectations don't work out the way I thought they will. I'm frequently late to meetings and my plans are just shallow probabilities that may or may not take place. I don't even have the vocabulary to describe all the things the Ni supposedly is. I don't understand the threads that are about it.


    And the SEE duality is just painful to imagine. I've been friends with SEEs and it always turns out they they want to be the boss. They brag, they're loud and they worldview is shallow to me. I don't needs someone who gives me energy whatever the ILI needs. I decide for myself when it's time for action. But what I need most is someone who respects my boundaries.


    Let's suppose I am ILI then why do the descriptions lack what is essentially a core of my life? I'm a big sister, the oldest child and the most responsible in the family. Since I can think I was the one who took care of everyone and I do it for free. I don't need to be asked to make someone feel at home but what enrages me is when someone abuses my caring tendencies. My IEI mother does that. She just knows how to manipulate people and make me do extra work and make me feel bad about it. Stratjevskaja has a blog entry about the LSE-IEI conflictor relationship and it essentially mirrors what I talking about.


    ILI's Si ... Listening to the rain and something. That's all? Do you know what's important to me when I paint? The process is important. Not necessarily the picture. I'm not creative anyway. Instead I enjoy to copy things. I look at artwork from masters in their field and think about what kind of technique they used. I enjoy acrylic painting because you have to paint fast, otherwise the colors dry fast and you can't correct your mistakes easily but I miss the smell of oil color. The big drawback with digital painting is that your hand are still clean at the end. With actual color its not like it. There is paint everywhere and you have to clean all your tools and put them away orderly. My set of brushes (I mean good brushes with quality. Not those you get a a dollar store) are probably my most holy possession. I even have my very first brush in there.

    Yes I am doubtful and I have fear but I am also doubtful whether that's type retated. Anger, happiness, other emotions..I have a hard time finding a logical connection between emotional and type. I don't save money to be rich. I save money because I know that I will have to be able to care for my grandmother when my grandfather is gone. I have to be able to care for my mother when my father dies to soon from his recklessness (overweight smoker) and haven't even started to talk about my ILE brother.
    What I find intersting is that I'm doubtful on my own but when I have someone I can protect I'm firm. I know how to put people in their place. The question is: do I want that? Confrontations are tiring.


    I feel stuck. That's the problem. Objectively there is nothing that holds me. I could just back my stuff, be selfish and leave everyone and all the negativity in my live behind and I would run until I find a place where I finally have my peace. My dream is to just sit on top of a mountain, all by myself and stare down on all the little things that are going on below me.


    On my prom I met an IEE again. We both wanted to apply to a college for graphic design. We visited the place, took all the preparing courses, looked at artwork from students... She has super long red hair and at prom she wore an absolutely beautiful long black dress. Nothing formal. It was a very sweet dress that was unconventional and comfortable. And under that dress: sports shoes. Not some stupid stillettos but comfortable shoes that no one would see. That's just one example why she is a free spirit. I loved that idea and on my own I wouldn't do that.
    SEEs try their hardest to impress me or anyone. Ne-ego types don't need to try. I am already impressed. Their whole demeanor is non-threatening and easy and that's what I want.
    Some of what you say I resonate with as well. Some of the Ni descriptions are very cheesy and seem very mocking and the whole "flow of time" thing sounds fabricated. It is like what someone would write about someone they do not understand at all. They look at you and wonder, how does he sit there all day with his nose in that book? He needs someone to get him out of the books! It is too simplistic. Many of the type descriptions that people reference most seem more about a humorous take on the type of person than anything definitive. Few understand that the cognitive function model is very weak, although people are very cocky in their perceptual biases.

    That is what socionics is. The typology looks at general tendencies of people, assign a cognitive function to a group of traits and then claims the cognitive function causes said traits. It leads for a deep search of specific functions without any standard for identification. Is it in the face? The eyes? The philosophy? The sentence structure? Where is it? It simply does not exist. People search in vain and do not find anything, although many think they do.

    So, I find it best to look at overall tendencies, not specific cognitive patterns (that are always up for a neverending debate). Look for abstraction vs concreteness, and the context of when one prefers one over the other. Spending years reading about typology demonstrates a clear tendency for abstraction. There are some problems I think with the language, such as using the word intuitive. I associate the word with New Agers mostly and egotistical thinking. Someone who thinks they can predict anything is clearly delusional. Sure people can predict things with a certain likelihood, like when you know the angle and the velocity of the ball being thrown, you can predict within a confidence interval where it will land. This is based on tangible information and not channeled from another plane of existence. Again, I think it goes back to misunderstandings. I prefer pattern seeking vs intuitive, probably because it is based more on logical constructs and knowledge. If a person is good at putting pieces of the puzzle together, solving problems, looking at likely causation, effects, consequences, and does so on very large time scale, then Ni seems like a very likely fit. People can disagree, but they can fuck off, imo. It really is up to the individual to figure this out for themselves. If they want help, they will ask.

    I relate to some of Si role. I am also an artist as well as a scientist. I can draw and paint in great detail and this is a very important, healthy activity for myself. I use quality paper, canvas, paints, brushes, pencils, etc. It is all part of creating something of great quality. I have a great focus on classical techniques and I'm very detailed. I studied the masters, learned some indirect painting methods. One goal is to study at an atelier to draw live people. I have done some figure drawing and love the complexity of the light/shadow of the human body. It appeases a like of anatomy and art.

    An SEE relationship sounds very short lived relationship, imo. I am attracted to some, but I am long term relationship oriented. I don't want to be in a relationship with someone who will chase the next appealing person that comes along, or drop you once their feelings change on a whim. This is why duality is useless really. The type says nothing useful about the individual, and the individual may be unlike what the type supposedly predicts. Personally, I prefer non-flighty people and other introverts. Duality be damned. But, I do see what they are trying to say. Socionicists see it as their job to get the ILI out, and keep the SEE stabilized. It really is none of their concern.

    It sounds like you are quite young and have a lot of self-development to do. If you are under 25, your brain is not fully developed and you will develop additional layers in your thinking and perspectives. Give it time.
    Last edited by Skepsis; 01-07-2018 at 03:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebula View Post
    So, I find it best to look at overall tendencies, not specific cognitive patterns (that are always up for a neverending debate). Look for abstraction vs concreteness, and the context of when one prefers one over the other. Spending years reading about typology demonstrates a clear tendency for abstraction. There are some problems I think with the language, such as using the word intuitive. I associate the word with New Agers mostly and egotistical thinking. Someone who thinks they can predict anything is clearly delusional. Sure people can predict things with a certain likelihood, like when you know the angle and the velocity of the ball being thrown, you can predict within a confidence interval where it will land. This is based on tangible information and not channeled from another plane of existence. Again, I think it goes back to misunderstandings. I prefer pattern seeking vs intuitive, probably because it is based more on logical constructs and knowledge. If a person is good a putting pieces of the puzzle together, solving problems, looking at likely causation, effects, consequences, and does so on very large time scale, then Ni seems like a very likely fit. People can disagree, but they can fuck off, imo. It really is up to the individual to figure this out for themselves. If they want help, they will ask.
    Well, in Talanov's list IEI's have notoriously bad short term and long term memory.
    It actually looks like it in many cases. My sister for example: simply just horrifying... For example I can refer our interactions back in time a lot while she has no clue where I am. Well, when I called her something by using indirect insult that one she surely remembers. Probs she has some form of emotional memory triggers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    @Syrup, moved from Random Thought Thread

    I will respect your wish to be not quoted. I knew that you would react with a long explanation of your own viewpoint because you have good reasons to do so. However you've got some of your facts about me wrong and I have every right to correct them.
    You didn't understand my post, which was directed to Adam btw. Anyway I'll clarify.

    Previous version:
    The reason why I continued this typing thread some time ago was because I couldn't even dare to share my own personal experiences and opinions without having to expect them to be devalued. Not from a logical point of few but because threads that involve Si or the Delta Thread a no go zones. There was no way I could say anything without Sol sharing his unsolicited advice, Scarper sharing his irritating rants, or you stating posts that can be summarized as "That's not like me". I was foolish to think thank filling out a questionnaire, twice, making a video, giving everyone the chance to voice their opinion about my type would buy me the peace of mind to move one this forum freely. But my type does not matter. With a different type I wouldn't write this post to you but to someone else.

    Last edited version:
    The reason why I continued this typing thread was because I couldn't dare to voice my personal experiences and opinions without having to expect them to be devalued. There was no way I could say anything without Sol sharing his unsolicited advice, Scarper sharing his irritating rants, or you saying "That's not like me".
    I was foolish to think that filling out a questionnaire, twice, making a video, giving everyone the chance to have an opinion about my type would settle the issue a little bit. But the type does not matter. With a different type I wouldn't write this post to you but to someone else.
    Well, that can happen when you bring personal stuff to public forums. Anyway, Si or Delta are not "no go zones". If they seem like that for you its maybe and possibly because you have different quadra values or type. I'll add this quote just for proving that its not me, but you, yourself who say the stuff (this from your questionnaire) :

    "I whish I would speak up for myself more often but then I get called overemotional (by Te-ego types). So I don't say anything at all.
    I feel like I need permission to show my feelings and thoughts and I have to hide significant parts of my personality to not shock anyone.
    I am too introverted to stay in contact with many people at once and give more than half-assed attention. Although I'd love to.
    I am naive and care to much."


    Now, you are doing what a lot of ppl do in this place, open a typing thread to expect some validation about the type you think you are or want to be, without caring so much about having enough reasonable support for it. And then being annoyed because someone contradicts you.


    You had every right to be aynnoyed by comparisons to someone's ex-wife. I also find it annoying, because I am my own person and I'd rather not deal with Adam's perception of being a twin of another person.
    Here you are pushing your own feelings as if it were the same as mine. You are the one annoyed because of Adam comparing yourself with his ex. I didnt say that in my post. I'm not annoyed because of being compared with someone else ex, who I dont even know. I couldn't care less what associations are going on in his mind either. I'm different than you also in this, you see? (as like pretty much in everything).

    I was saying to Adam that he shouldn't compare or associate You and I with each other, because we are different, and also Its wrong for me to have or get someone trying to find her peace of mind in me or others ppls opinions. I simply think its not good, positive or correct for the health of such person. That's all.


    Your behavior however is not less frustrating. Instead of saying that I'm not the same you repeatedly say that you're type X and because I am not like you I can't be type X. And although you say that you don't care you are more vocal about it than Sol, Scarper and Bertrand combined.
    No, I've never said that because you are not like me, you cant be SLI.

    Why you always try to make this look as its some personal issue of me vs you? The only think I found ridiculous is someone defining her own type as x because a random stranger, told her she was similar to his ex and ME. And that ME is MY problem, you see? I'm being included into that. Its not just you and the ex or me and the ex. I'm always being included as if you/me/she are practically the same person. And we aren't. You and I are different, not just because of experiences I already said it in the other post. Your reasoning, your fears, your behavior, your opinions, lifestyle, its more J, than P by definition and your test results, not because of my opinion. I already said it in this thread too. But you want to believe what you want to believe, and you don't want to listen anyone who doesn't agree with your current type.

    Then, I score SLI. The ex score ISTJ. Most of your test results were LSI or something else. You have 10 ppl typing you in this thread as other than SLI. And in the previous one all the replies were F, more likely NF.



    My problem is that you position yourself as the hallmark for the SLI type which is wrong. The individual does not make the type. The (many) descriptions do. This thread came to the point where the most plausible types where LSI, ILI and SLI and I decided what works best for me.
    TL;DR:

    Adam: CT, Syrup and my Ex are alike.
    CT: I know but stop saying that.
    Syrup: No we arent. I score ISTP, your ex ISTJ. Then I'm not similar to CT either. Our opinions, thoughts, behavior, reasoning and ITRs are different.
    CT: you repeatedly say that you're type X and because I am not like you I can't be type X.
    Syrup: No, I've never said that you cant be SLI because you are not like me. I said you are unlikely because of your scores points to J>P (you deleted them, btw). Also because of you have been typed at least 15 times in your typing threads as F type.

    But its me the one who's saying that you are not SLI because I'm the hallmark. I guess blaming someone else gives you some peace of mind.

    Most descriptions are based in observation of individuals, btw.

    And plausible? Plausible for who and how? Most typed you as F.


    Again you can and IMO should make your stance about the ex-wife issue clear everytime you think it's needed.
    No, because I didnt consider that as the problem, you did it. Stop projecting yourself. Also you were the one who self typed SLI in first instance because a comparison Adam made of you and me and her ex. The quote is below.


    Our opinions are different because we've made different experiences. You have close male friends. That's good for you. In fact I envy you because I estranged from one of my closest friends (ILI) since I quit the friendship with his SEE girlfriend for reasons that are not type related. Two people can share the same sociotype (I don't care about subtype, that's a field of no interest to me) and have different opinions. The combination of sociotype+subtype+enneagram+tritype+instinctual stacking somehow tries to capture that but they will never be able describe what makes an individual.
    Here you go again trying to merge with me saying that our opinions would be the same if we just share the same experiences. Our opinions are different because we are different persons. Also we have had different experiences too. PPl can have different opinions because they have different personalities too.

    My SLI friend: The quote is: "a bit helpless". You could've asked for clarification, instead you’re making your own assumptions. I can't and I won't expect you to memorize and read everything but some of what you keep in memory is just wrong.
    Yes, and hopeless and helpless are very different right? I should have ask for clarification instead of making absurd assumptions in this very significative difference.

    help·less
    adjective
    unable to defend oneself or to act without help.
    "the cubs are born blind and helpless"
    synonyms: dependent, incapable, powerless, impotent, weak; defenseless, vulnerable, exposed, unprotected, open to attack;
    paralyzed, disabled
    "the cubs are born blind and helpless"

    hope·less
    2. inadequate; incompetent.
    "I'm hopeless at names"

    synonyms: bad, awful, terrible, dreadful, horrible, atrocious; inferior, incompetent, inadequate, unskilled;
    informalpathetic, useless, lousy, rotten
    "Joseph was hopeless at tennis"



    The first LIE boss was the founder of a startup. Someone I knew from school. I was a bloody beginner in programming, totally inexperienced in anything with quite a few character flaws. On a personal level we were all right but when it came to teaching me the technical skills and coordinate work we experienced more problems with time. I needed to learn the skills and understand the matter first. He discarded every step of my progress for the sake of experimenting. He created an environment that was unsuitable for anyone who wanted to be serious about coding. (Stratiyevskaya describes those problems in her blog entry on socionika-forever, LIE-EIE differences) In total it's a story about two young people who did not know what they were doing.
    The second boss hired me instantly after the first interview. There were no problems. I don't know where you've got that from..
    From here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    So my new boss is a LIE and I see some potential problems arise that I had with my previous LIE-boss: communication.

    Previous boss: We could talk to each other, form complete and accurate sentences but no one would understand the other. We needed an ESI for translation. Sometimes when the LIE asks me a question - when I start talking he is frustrated after a second. It's like I can't say a word without crossing some invisible line.

    I worry that the same could happen again this time and screw everything.

    My questions are - how do I successfully communicate my thoughts to a LIE.
    What should I never say.
    Same goes for emails.

    help me please I'm so lost
    I just said you had problems with your bosses, because you said that, I didnt added anything more. I'm not inventing anything.



    Yes, I've shortly dated an IEE. He chose an apprenticeship in a field that later turned out to be unsuitable for him. He then chose to study in social science to become a social worker. By the time he finished his degree with no prospect of work in our current job market he would've been almost 30. I can’t allow myself to chose attraction over reason. Not before I am a responsible adult with reasonable financial security myself. Do I regret that I will never meet him again? Yes, but at the time it was the right decision. Also there is no reason to believe that duality is a perfect match. People separate for a number of reasons.

    The SEI was a kind individual. I felt like we understood one another and we had similar interests. On a closer distance we had our problems. I pursued many different types before it turned out to be a bad idea.
    I don't even know why you feel the need to give explanations about your personal relations (but they are also good examples of j>p ). I wasn't asking for it and that wasnt the topic of my previous post. I just mentioned your ITRs as an example of HOW you and I are different because Adam was saying we were alike (for 5th time or something). Not because I wanted personal explanations of it. That wasnt the topic, just adding some example of our differences, it was about ITR because that was the topic of your post that he used to comparing us in this occasion.


    About me being too nice and correct to be 1D Fe: In that case we could type the entire population of Japan as 2D Fe and higher. You just completely dismissed my experience with Fe-dom types. I see politeness as the basis for less conflict on the forum. It's far too easy to sound rude when we're restricted to communication via words.
    I dont get what Japan population has to do with you (unless you live in japan, which is not the case afaik).
    I said you were not 1DFe. Nothing of what you are saying proves the opposite.

    You’ve edited your post a few times to be respectful and you're right:
    You edited too, for trying to sound less F probably (I saved the previous one, thought, I posted some above).

    I edited not because I thought I was being disrespectful towards you (thats just your assumption and imagination, and doesnt have much sense since you say that I'm still beind disrespectful, so how's that? I edited to be respectful but I still disrespectful?). Anyway I dont think I was disrespectful. Just that I could make you feel uncomfortable, and making you feel uncomfortable doesnt mean that I was being necesarily disrespectful. One could feel uncomfortable for a lot of things unrelated to lack of respect.

    Anyway I edited to explain stuff more correctly and added this: Shes even too correct (afraid of commit mistakes) and nice and interested in others opinions about her and fulfilling ppls expectations for being 1DFe.

    I'm not trying to make you feel uncomfortable again. But, you are putting stuff as If I were inventing things and else, so what should I do?

    Anyway, we can stop and I can delete it if you want. I dont have any problem. I'll maybe do it anyway, so you dont have to quote or respond if you dont feel like doing it.


    I do feel annoyed because I disagree with your opinion that my perception is dependent on someone's association of me with his ex-wife as if I'm not able to form my own conclusions. That to me is condescending.
    What opinion? thats what you did and said:


    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    In short: Caregiver by far. I'll explain in a later post and thank you for stopping by explaining your opinion. Your probably my most vocal advocate for the SLI typing and who knows when I would have considered that typing on my own?
    Attachment 12308
    x



    Last edited by Hope; 01-09-2018 at 01:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    @Syrup, moved from Random Thought Thread

    I will respect your wish to be not quoted. I knew that you would react with a long explanation of your own viewpoint because you have good reasons to do so. However you've got some of your facts about me wrong and I have every right to correct them.

    The reason why I continued this typing thread was because I couldn't dare to voice my personal experiences and opinions without having to expect them to be devalued. There was no way I could say anything without Sol sharing his unsolicited advice, Scarper sharing his irritating rants, or you saying "That's not like me".
    I was foolish to think that filling out a questionnaire, twice, making a video, giving everyone the chance to have an opinion about my type would settle the issue a little bit. But the type does not matter. With a different type I wouldn't write this post to you but to someone else.

    You had every right to be aynnoyed by comparisons to someone's ex-wife. I also find it annoying, because I am my own person and I'd rather not deal with Adam's perception of being a twin of another person. Your behavior however is not less frustrating. Instead of saying that I'm not the same you repeatedly say that you're type X and because I am not like you I can't be type X. And although you say that you don't care you are more vocal about it than Sol, Scarper and Bertrand combined.
    Again you can and IMO should make your stance about the ex-wife issue clear everytime you think it's needed. My problem is that you position yourself as the hallmark for the SLI type which is wrong. The individual does not make the type. The (many) descriptions do. This thread came to the point where the most plausible types where LSI, ILI and SLI and I decided what works best for me.

    Our opinions are different because we've made different experiences. You have close male friends. That's good for you. In fact I envy you because I estranged from one of my closest friends (ILI) since I quit the friendship with his SEE girlfriend for reasons that are not type related. Two people can share the same sociotype (I don't care about subtype, that's a field of no interest to me) and have different opinions. The combination of sociotype+subtype+enneagram+tritype+instinctual stacking somehow tries to capture that but they will never be able describe what makes an individual.

    My SLI friend: The quote is: "a bit helpless". You could've asked for clarification, instead you’re making your own assumptions. I can't and I won't expect you to memorize and read everything but some of what you keep in memory is just wrong.

    Yes, I've shortly dated an IEE. He chose an apprenticeship in a field that later turned out to be unsuitable for him. He then chose to study in social science to become a social worker. By the time he finished his degree with no prospect of work in our current job market he would've been almost 30. I can’t allow myself to chose attraction over reason. Not before I am a responsible adult with reasonable financial security myself. Do I regret that I will never meet him again? Yes, but at the time it was the right decision. Also there is no reason to believe that duality is a perfect match. People separate for a number of reasons.

    The first LIE boss was the founder of a startup. Someone I knew from school. I was a bloody beginner in programming, totally inexperienced in anything with quite a few character flaws. On a personal level we were all right but when it came to teaching me the technical skills and coordinate work we experienced more problems with time. I needed to learn the skills and understand the matter first. He discarded every step of my progress for the sake of experimenting. He created an environment that was unsuitable for anyone who wanted to be serious about coding. (Stratiyevskaya describes those problems in her blog entry on socionika-forever, LIE-EIE differences) In total it's a story about two young people who did not know what they were doing.
    The second boss hired me instantly after the first interview. There were no problems. I don't know where you've got that from.

    The SEI was a kind individual. I felt like we understood one another and we had similar interests. On a closer distance we had our problems. I pursued many different types before it turned out to be a bad idea.

    About me being too nice and correct to be 1D Fe: In that case we could type the entire population of Japan as 2D Fe and higher. You just completely dismissed my experience with Fe-dom types. I see politeness as the basis for less conflict on the forum. It's far too easy to sound rude when we're restricted to communication via words.

    You’ve edited your post a few times to be respectful and you're right: I do feel annoyed because I disagree with your opinion that my perception is dependent on someone's association of me with his ex-wife as if I'm not able to form my own conclusions. That to me is condescending.
    All rather Fi. ESI makes better sense for you than LSI or SLI, but I doubt you'll be happy with that.

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    @Cosmic Teapot

    I did the EIE typing for you originally because you are similar to some people who either selftyped EIE or I typed them EIE but who all turned out to IEI. And now I saw some post of yours and I realize IEI makes sense for you too. Things fall in place with this typing.


    Looking at your questionnaire again, there's no way that this isn't the thoughts of an Intuitive type:

    "Because every new area of knowledge adds a new layer to reality."

    "It's like I am the only one who sees possible back-up plans or alternative routes."


    Also earlier in PM you gave very very Ni valuing future oriented statements.

    It also makes sense why your understanding of Si as you once gave it in a Si thread - where I recall an SLI had an issue with your definitions, hers was way more physically oriented, which is what Si is - was very Ni oriented.



    Some IEI statements:

    (Fe ego, mostly Fe creative) "I whish I would speak up for myself more often but then I get called overemotional (by Te-ego types). So I don't say anything at all."

    (More Fe ego) "My gifts are always thoughtful but when I receive something cheap(:impersonal, meaningless) in reaturn I am disappointed because I overestimated the relationship."

    (same, with strong Fi and again very IEI) "LIE: It's not your fault. You're just a shitty human being.
    LOL. You could see the regret in his eyes instantly. He didn't mean "You suck" what he wanted to say was "Human beings are imperfect. You are human, so don't be so hard on yourself.""

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    @Cosmic Teapot I'm not sure if you're looking for further input but there are a few things I wanted to say.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    The ILI descriptions are hard to read and outlandish to me. Their Ni sounds like some magical forecasting tool and I don't have that. Most of my expectations don't work out the way I thought they will. I'm frequently late to meetings and my plans are just shallow probabilities that may or may not take place. I don't even have the vocabulary to describe all the things the Ni supposedly is. I don't understand the threads that are about it.
    Quite frankly most type descriptions are just bad - I don't advise using them to type yourself. Being on time is some silly Russian idea from early socionics, it has little to do with Ni. (I've also written some stuff on Ni on my website which you can check out.)

    And the SEE duality is just painful to imagine. I've been friends with SEEs and it always turns out they they want to be the boss. They brag, they're loud and they worldview is shallow to me. I don't needs someone who gives me energy whatever the ILI needs. I decide for myself when it's time for action. But what I need most is someone who respects my boundaries.

    Let's suppose I am ILI then why do the descriptions lack what is essentially a core of my life? I'm a big sister, the oldest child and the most responsible in the family. Since I can think I was the one who took care of everyone and I do it for free. I don't need to be asked to make someone feel at home but what enrages me is when someone abuses my caring tendencies. My IEI mother does that. She just knows how to manipulate people and make me do extra work and make me feel bad about it. Stratjevskaja has a blog entry about the LSE-IEI conflictor relationship and it essentially mirrors what I talking about.


    ILI's Si ... Listening to the rain and something. That's all? Do you know what's important to me when I paint? The process is important. Not necessarily the picture. I'm not creative anyway. Instead I enjoy to copy things. I look at artwork from masters in their field and think about what kind of technique they used. I enjoy acrylic painting because you have to paint fast, otherwise the colors dry fast and you can't correct your mistakes easily but I miss the smell of oil color. The big drawback with digital painting is that your hand are still clean at the end. With actual color its not like it. There is paint everywhere and you have to clean all your tools and put them away orderly. My set of brushes (I mean good brushes with quality. Not those you get a a dollar store) are probably my most holy possession. I even have my very first brush in there.

    Yes I am doubtful and I have fear but I am also doubtful whether that's type retated. Anger, happiness, other emotions..I have a hard time finding a logical connection between emotional and type. I don't save money to be rich. I save money because I know that I will have to be able to care for my grandmother when my grandfather is gone. I have to be able to care for my mother when my father dies to soon from his recklessness (overweight smoker) and haven't even started to talk about my ILE brother.
    What I find intersting is that I'm doubtful on my own but when I have someone I can protect I'm firm. I know how to put people in their place. The question is: do I want that? Confrontations are tiring.


    I feel stuck. That's the problem. Objectively there is nothing that holds me. I could just back my stuff, be selfish and leave everyone and all the negativity in my live behind and I would run until I find a place where I finally have my peace. My dream is to just sit on top of a mountain, all by myself and stare down on all the little things that are going on below me.


    On my prom I met an IEE again. We both wanted to apply to a college for graphic design. We visited the place, took all the preparing courses, looked at artwork from students... She has super long red hair and at prom she wore an absolutely beautiful long black dress. Nothing formal. It was a very sweet dress that was unconventional and comfortable. And under that dress: sports shoes. Not some stupid stillettos but comfortable shoes that no one would see. That's just one example why she is a free spirit. I loved that idea and on my own I wouldn't do that.
    SEEs try their hardest to impress me or anyone. Ne-ego types don't need to try. I am already impressed. Their whole demeanor is non-threatening and easy and that's what I want.
    There is sort of a mixed bag here, some of what you're saying does make sense for SLI, but a lot of this I simply can't verify. All I can say is that based on the sizable amount of information that you provided spontaneously in the questionnaires, SLI does not make much sense.

    "Me: I save it.Why? What should I do?
    Someone: Well, um, buy jewelry.
    Just no. Why would you waste money on that?"

    Again, there is Te here but not Si (or Se for that matter) - the idea that you could use resources to improve your current quality of life rather than prepare for the future. I would consider other Gamma types before SLI, again based on the information that is accessible to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    ILSI seek extroverted Feeling of EIE and ESE. They want colorful emotions. And don't. It's the opposite of what I want. When my IEI mother raises her voice in agony, or when she starts talking angrily I feel like jumping out of a window. I literally run away from her and she just follows me like an angry bird or something.
    Lol, I also don't like negative emotional expressions directed at me. Who does? Let's pull up a bit of common sense here instead of Socionics bs ideas.

    Also if your mom follows you like that, I highly doubt she's IEI. Some extravert or at least not 1D Se.

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