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Thread: How do you find mirror relations?

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    sorrowsofyoungwerther's Avatar
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    Default How do you find mirror relations?

    I know of several mirror couples that seem very happy.
    Overall, I think mirror are good relations but can be a bit weird as I find the ISFp thinking I am a little careless or rushed.
    No ISFp has ever said this to me but I suspect they are thinking: "calm down", "plan better", "you are late".
    Also the slow methodical nature of the ISFp seems unnecessary. In my case with the ISFp its an issue of how to use Si.

    How do you find Mirror Relations?

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    thehotelambush's Avatar
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    I think they are very good, easily the 3rd or 2nd best relationship. Many of my good friends have been ILEs. They can also be a bit frustrating since partners' long-term, deeper goals are somewhat different. So in the best case they are good but in the worst case (which is more rare) you can have some nasty conflicts, probably more so than any other in-quadra relationship.

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    يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَىٰ وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا

    O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another.

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    δ Orionis Chae's Avatar
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    Very relaxing actually, mutual strengthening of each other's views.
    3w4 7w6 8w7 SX/SO

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    I was friends with an ESFp for seven years (we know each other for 12 years).


    I liked her a lot when she was quiet and really kind. I needed someone who was more confident than me, but when I stopped to behave like a doormat our friendship fell apart really quickly.


    I'm not an ILI who is ok with a secondary position under the wing of the SEE.
    When a think that I'm being treated unfairly or with blatant disrespect I show resistance but because ESI are ok with winning from a moral perspective, the SEE need their opponent to back down completely (and to apologise for not accepting SEE's authority!).


    They don't stop until they've won and would act in ways that I would never permit myself. As soon as all conflicts are over SEE usually try to reconcile by being charming, giving much attention or making everything into a cruel joke


    Also the ESFp I know love to brag. They love attention and while I don't see anything wrong with that I'm tired of it.
    From an Fi-leading perspective they only think about themselves and how they can get more attention and influence. They make others accomplishments seem small, are prone to jealousy and drama when they feel that their own moral-standards (which I find childish and underdeveloped) are not met. They allow themselves everything and never admit ethical mistakes. They are only fair when it suits them.


    Obviously not all ESFp are like that and my own leading function makes me biased.


    But I find Fi-creative scary; It bends "the rules" (my own standards) and draws quick conclusions about things I would think over in detail.
    Like considering multiple perspectives; my own feelings, others intentions,... , and if I have the right to judge.

    SEE don't do that but they are more forgiving and have more people who like them because of that (and their optimistic and lively nature).


    I would still make friends with ESFps though. They're fun to be around and most of the time their intentions are good. They express themselves differently and I think that helps me to not claim the moral high ground everytime.

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    sorrowsofyoungwerther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    I think they are very good, easily the 3rd or 2nd best relationship. Many of my good friends have been ILEs. They can also be a bit frustrating since partners' long-term, deeper goals are somewhat different. So in the best case they are good but in the worst case (which is more rare) you can have some nasty conflicts, probably more so than any other in-quadra relationship.
    thehotelambush- does the ILE's lack of Fi or reduced Fe bother you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    thehotelambush- does the ILE's lack of Fi or reduced Fe bother you?
    Depends on the ILE. Sometimes they are just obviously trying way too hard with Fe and end up looking foolish. In other cases the Ni ignoring bothers me more actually.

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    يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَىٰ وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا

    O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another.

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    Casual conversations with mirrors have been pleasant but I've not met many outside of a work environment. I have not ever been able to work with them on the same project because we differed on priorities, methodology and objectives even though we may have had similar perceptions of the situation. It's a lot like having a common closet and fighting over how it should be used or arranged. We seem to know each other well but refuse to accept what the other is doing, and we certainly know how to hurt one another. I think of it as the Mexican-standoff relationship, which is the worst for both parties.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    It´s good except when we have to do something together for a prolonged period of time - in that case many ILIs can quickly and suddenly change their mind, or being noncommittal about specific projects.

    If/when we happen to agree on something we can be unstoppable in argumenting in our favor and obtain the maximum advantage from an external situation. Too bad it doesn´t happen that often.
    fatti non foste a viver come bruti ma per seguir virtute e canoscenza

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    It depends on the person. The one I had the longest experience with was LOTS of fun and got me to do things I probably would have never done without him. At first it was really just a good time...lots of laughing, while exploring some really out there theories. He had me meeting up with groups of people interested in the same things that we were and encouraging me to express myself more because he thought I had excellent intuition. He would also try to override my intuition with his own, so we did clash on that.

    I think he liked to think of himself as a teacher to me, and everyone else, which used to irritate me because I thought he was not taking the time to listen to what I (or others) was saying. He constantly tried to tell me what I "really felt" or what something "really meant" even though many times he was reading me wrong. I retaliated by telling him he was wrong even when he was right to knock him down a peg.

    He was overconfident in his ability to read everything and everyone correctly. He considered himself to have real superpowers and superior to most humans. Sometimes it turned into a battle of egos. Neither of us wanted to give in when it came to things we thought we really knew best, so we dug our heels in. He could even get others to take his side on things by playing on their emotions. That didn't bother me so much as I got to cut some totally unnecessary people from my life that way. I kind of liked that he got them to reveal themselves to me that way. When we eventually split he took them with him and I took those who saw through it with me.

    He also didn't like when I got too much attention and as I have mentioned before, he had a tendency to "push me off the stage" (metaphorically) when he thought I was getting too much attention. After awhile he would exhaust me and I would want to be alone but he constantly tried to keep me engaged. When I would take time to myself he would take it personal. I guess that led to hurt feelings after a while. I probably didn't handle it in the best way. We ended up splitting but now and then we keep in touch. I can't look at his FB without gagging because it is all about how great he is. I still care about him though. The narcissism was a real turn off. I know other EIE who don't have the narc thing and it is easier to just have fun with them but I do it in short bursts.

    I kind of hate sharing about this particular person so much but he is my best example, of a lot of things, when it comes to sharing intertype experiences on this forum. I am really not complaining because I do accept that is how he is and probably won't change much. It did not make for a good long term romantic relationship. Too much ego between him and I. I wonder if this is the most positive post I have made about him.

    p.s. He really is talented but too many people told him he was extra special throughout his life. He let it all go to his head.
    Last edited by Aylen; 01-11-2017 at 01:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Depends on the ILE. Sometimes they are just obviously trying way too hard with Fe and end up looking foolish. In other cases the Ni ignoring bothers me more actually.
    if ignoring ni bothers you what are your thoughts on alpha ni polr??

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    if ignoring ni bothers you what are your thoughts on alpha ni polr??
    The vulnerable function is different though because it is receptive to other people taking responsibility for it. The ignoring function is more like "I have already considered this and determined that it is a load of hooey."

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    يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَىٰ وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا

    O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another.

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    .
    Last edited by sorrowsofyoungwerther; 01-11-2017 at 06:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Depends on the ILE. Sometimes they are just obviously trying way too hard with Fe and end up looking foolish. In other cases the Ni ignoring bothers me more actually.
    that is interesting...but why do you value Ni? Your Ni is like the ESE's Se. I dont think I even care about Se.

    Also...not sure why as I get older the ILE lack of Fi wears on me..

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    that is interesting...but why do you value Ni? Your Ni is like the ESE's Se. I dont think I even care about Se.

    Also...not sure why as I get older the ILE lack of Fi wears on me..
    The demonstrative function is something that we do pay attention to in the moment, though we are unlikely to criticize others for it except in extreme circumstances. What does "not caring about Se" mean to you?

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    يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَىٰ وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا

    O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    The demonstrative function is something that we do pay attention to in the moment, though we are unlikely to criticize others for it except in extreme circumstances. What does "not caring about Se" mean to you?
    To me not caring about Se means: not over-exerting myself physically (i.e. at the gym, going to clubs, adrenaline inducing sports), not being interested in hierarchy, or accumulating wealth. Instead having a strong preference to listening to the inner-state of my being and trying to maintain an internal calmness or homeostasis instead of being engaged with the external environment. I will decline interesting external opportunities if it will be physically uncomfortable (i.e. staying up very late even if socializing with friends, invitations to bars (could be loud and smokey), or going out when I know it will be cold and icy). I am an SP user so I could be confusing being an sx/sp with ignoring Se. In generally I don't think I use Se.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    To me not caring about Se means: not over-exerting myself physically (i.e. at the gym, going to clubs, adrenaline inducing sports), not being interested in hierarchy, or accumulating wealth. Instead having a strong preference to listening to the inner-state of my being and trying to maintain an internal calmness or homeostasis instead of being engaged with the external environment. I will decline interesting external opportunities if it will be physically uncomfortable (i.e. staying up very late even if socializing with friends, invitations to bars (could be loud and smokey), or going out when I know it will be cold and icy). I am an SP user so I could be confusing being an sx/sp with ignoring Se. In generally I don't think I use Se.
    That makes sense for subdued but some parts do sound more like ignoring. ESEs usually are active, busy people, this is the main way they express .

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    يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَىٰ وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا

    O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another.

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    I personally haven't gotten along super well with most IEEs I may have come into contact with. It's hard for me to type most people with whom I am not close, so I can look at my friends and say I only have one good friend who is IEE, but I can't say if this is because I just haven't encountered many IEEs or because I genuinely don't get along with them on average.

    We met in college through a student organization for furthering international development. Things I like about her: she is totally dedicated to helping poor people all over the world--really going to places that need help and setting up programs for their specific problems. She is really selfless in this, putting her personal life on hold. We fiercely love people and find them frustrating in the same ways; our life stories actually mirror each other's in many ways (same ethnicity and nationality, same parental dynamic growing up). She is a very thoughtful, perceptive, non-judgmental confidante and great listener--someone I trust to be able to listen to confused/vague feelings of unhappiness and figure out the root cause of them (like I do for my friends, but sometimes find difficult to do for myself).

    Things I don't like about her: maybe she is a bit too selfless. I feel like she would be happier if she settled down in a more permanent location and could really date more seriously, but perhaps I am just projecting my own preferences onto her. She is also too energetic for me to be with for an extended period of time, and I feel like she often puts herself in needless danger for the sake of excitement/adventure (though I understand this is definitely a difference in preferences). Her stories both impress and scare me. They are very interesting, but I can't help but feel she is somehow extremely lucky in being able to emerge from them unscathed. Finally, it's somewhat unfortunate that she is always off in some other country. It's impossible to fully merge with a friend like that. But we are still really close in the sense that she always stays with me when she is in my city , and this is when we talk about all our hopes and fears and psychologically merge again, even if only temporarily.

    Other people whom I suspect are IEEs: I think I find most IEEs a bit tedious in their effusive, somewhat fake enthusiasm. What I find really annoying is when other people cannot tell the IEE is being fake so these people just love the IEE. I suppose there is some jealousy here, because I think I have some pretty good, deep qualities, but they are not as appreciated as bubbliness. Note that I don't think IEEs are generally fake people; from my friendship with one, I am sure they are beautifully authentic with those with whom they are close. But they are definitely more prone to being weirdly bubbly with strangers/acquaintances, which I find suspicious. Again, that might just be because if I were that bubbly with strangers, it would be 100% fake, but maybe IEEs are just genuinely bubbly all the time.

    From the IEE's viewpoint, I think my close IEE friend sees me as more focused and directed in achieving my goals than she is (though from my POV, she's still somehow moving forward in her goals, at an excellent pace). I think acquaintance IEEs find me boring, meek, or not sufficiently confident to be interesting, especially because we mostly interact in groups, and I usually take a backseat in group interaction.

    While I love my friend, ours is not the kind of relationship I am seeking for a romantic partner (not just in terms of physical distance, but also in terms of how we interact when we are together), and I haven't dated any IEEs that I know of, so I don't have much info to provide in terms of romantic mirror relationships, though you might view that lack of info as informative in and of itself.

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    In church. My IEE friends go to church and we're long time friends. Also I met two IEE friends in school and made a few here on the forum. One at work. I love my IEE friends because we have similar values, that is to be social protectors and advocates, to help people, make close relationships and take care of our relationship and God. We are ethical and reinforce our ethical values while talking to one another. Among some differences are IEE are not as stubborn as I am and they keep people at a greater distance so they are not as affected by what strangers say and do.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Mirror relations are generally good because of similar values and thoughts
    Last edited by Shaebette; 02-02-2017 at 07:43 PM.
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    Scratch that: some IEIs are lovely and pleasantly bubbly and just a nice person to be around when you want an easy conversation. I don't seem to notice the other ones.
    Reason is a whore.

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    The one person that I believe could have been a mirror was found on this site. It was interesting, but sadly I consider the whole thing biased because I knew he was a mirror. Pretty much how I remember it is that he talked about stuff that went over my head, and then I talked about stuff that went over his head. That is how I remember it, and I am not sure that what I said really went over his head. I'm just assuming that my side was equivalent to his side, but mirrored.

    Now, I've probably dealt with mirrors IRL, but I've stopped typing people IRL because I am not a reliable typer and more importantly I don't want to bias myself towards or against people I know.

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    I probably have more ILI Mirror friends than any other type. We pretty much understand each other, being in the same quadra. They can be really funny, and they are usually really smart. Their Fe-PoLR doesn't bother me; I just assume they are going to be a dick sometimes and that's fine with me. It doesn't affect how much I like them, because once you get to know them, they are really good people.

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    There are several Mirror marriages, primarily between Ethicals though, in my experience.
    ESI-SEE and EII-IEE being the most common ones.

    Personally, I cannot comment much on how I find Mirror relations in particular, because I've had very little (extended) exposure to EIE people both IRL and online.

    I just know that Mirrors can be interesting individuals, they seem vaguely similar to me in some ways, but also oddly different in others.
    The Temperament difference throws me off a bit, but I can overlook that in favour of their general spirit and our shared Quadra values.

    Interestingly, I have personally encountered only male EIEs so far, even though they are supposedly more rare than the female kind.

    I don't know if the OP asked for that information, but romantically or sexually I am more attracted to other types, generally.
    EIEs can seem pleasant or temporarily fun to me, but they don't really "stir" or "ignite" me internally like other types tend to. This has something to do with my Imago, probably...
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