Identity crisis, ENFp or INFj

[noid]

Hi
Sometime I'm asking myself if I'm ENFp or INFj (would be probably creative subtype for ENFp)
Ive read the description one more time at the instant, but I would like some input from real people if possible. What are the difference beetween ENFP-Fi and INFJ for example ?
How do you manage your(s) long term goal for example ?
If you hesitated beetween these type, how did you find your type at the end ?

thx

edit : no I'm really probably INFj simply because Ive less hard time with ISTj than ESTp - but I don't know if it's the result of my introversion. For example the gf of a friend (INFp) is ESTp and I can go along easily with her even if there is some clumsiness, but it's harder with guy, it seems that we have nothing to say to the other. But I'm nonetheless interested by reading ppl about that


edit 2 : for ex

IEE is unable to work effectively within a rigid system that imposes too many restrictions. He dislikes it when his relations with others are controlled and regulated from the outside. Find it difficult to perform meticulous work of the type of formal accounting. He often doesn't go into the details but will instead grasp the general meaning. Due to this, he doesn't always listen to another person to the very end before coming to a conclusion and voicing his advice, which results in others feeling misunderstood

Do some INFJ relate ???? because in me that's obvious, I relate even more to this than the Se Polr in INFj

In another moment in wikisocion they say "... they can have the place of an "idea generator" in work because -Ti polr-...", and when I was thinking about my future some years ago I asked myself exactly that (on the tone of laughing but it would be still cool )

[noid]

I've 2 Polr :'(

[UDP]

- look at the diffrence between extratim and intratim
- consider if your energy levels are more in line with EP or IJ temperment
- consider if you are a rational conservative person in terms of expending your energy vs if you are more fluctuating
- consider if you are more prone to have thoughts that are carefully scrutinized at the expense of moving on to new situations vs being more focused on growth and exploration rather than refining specific thoughts / situations to their fullest realizations


- do you relate to Ti as a role function rather than a POLR?


etc

[Chae]

That, and how you typically interfere with other people's business ENFp takes an active stance, INFj a more passive one. Ne lead is the quintessential initiator and the anti-boredom talking machine, Fi lead would rather take themselves out of the equation and observe under that exact premise, involving themselves to bond instead of steering things.

The problems you encounter usually stem from a strong creative function subtype, I also had plenty of confusion because of that. Check whether your hidden talent is time estimation (Ni demonstrative) or being able to create a positive atmosphere (Fe demonstrative).

So far, you sound more INFj-Ne to me, using a lot of relational thinking (Fi) and seeking Te input, also showing some temporal pinpointing (Ni).


And PS, no need for desperation! It's just a type! If everything else fails, use the Chae method! Are you more of a steady sweet n' nice Rick Astley type of person, or a sassy eccentric out-of-control Robert Downey Jr? That should get it settled quickly

[Saoirse]

I'm not super close to any IEEs, so I don't have much experience in differentiating. However, I am an EII-Ne, and I will say that I do not relate to this part of OP's second edit: "he doesn't always listen to another person to the very end before coming to a conclusion and voicing his advice, which results in others feeling misunderstood." I think Se PoLR makes EIIs generally very hesitant to interrupt others, especially someone seeking advice from them. When being asked for advice, the EIIs I know tend to ask clarifying questions or to ask the advice seeker to expound on a particular issue; I don't think any EII I know would come to a conclusion before hearing everything. I think EIIs tend to hear everything and think it's not enough to reach a conclusion, and then ask for more information.

But that's just one piece of evidence. If you've got 10 pieces of evidence saying EII and 1 saying IEE, you're still probably EII. I don't know what other evidence you've got.

My perhaps unorthodox advice is to read Stratiyevskaya's IEE and EII profiles and see which one vibes with you more. She is one of the few Socionists with Fi ego (she is ESI), so I kinda feel like she understands Socionics through a lens that makes an unsettling amount of sense to Fi egos. Other profiles, I'm like, all right, I guess that's true, but it doesn't tell me much about myself other than what the theory says my type should be like, it sounds kind of generic; they are like staring at a painting up close and just seeing the brushstrokes that make it up--here's a green stroke, here's a blue one. Stratiyevskaya's profiles synthesize the theoretical IE relationships into fully fleshed out archetypes that do unexpected things that you wouldn't know they do just from the theory; her profiles are like taking a step back and seeing the full painting. Is it a house? A river? It's easier to see when you step back. (If her main type profiles are not sufficiently clarifying, you can also look at her relations profiles to see which relations to other types fit your impression of other types better, e.g., figuring out your dual and acitivity partner.)

Sorry if this sounds kinda nuts and hand-wavey. I know (and like!) that this forum and Socionics in general are very systematic and ordered, but sometimes an ordered approach just can't be very effective because you're so close on various binary dimensions (e.g., all the strokes on your painting are teal, between green and blue). Then you just gotta trust that you know yourself, take a step back, and let that intuition work.

Good luck figuring out your type! I think it's very common for FiNe/NeFi egos to be indecisive about their type. I can't tell you how many times I've said, "Okay, I'm EII, I'm done, that's it," only to say, "But wait..." a few months later.

[someoneaskedmetofly]

I do relate to the 2nd edit and I'm pretty sure I'm EII-Ne as well. Often enough I get the correct general idea, I think at least. People usually don't say if they feel they were misunderstood. It might be an issue with some things not interesting me enough, and as soon as I think I know what they want to convey, I'll zone out till they're finished. But Fe demonstrative should be a clear indicator. I can't Fe for the life of me. But I'm not aware if the Fe can in any way be stifled in IEEs.
Also compare your energy levels and just general outgoingness with both types and see where your closer. It's not decisive, but if you're more of a homebody chances are the answer is EII in this dilemma.

[brothamanben]

Just curious. What is the main difference between an IEE-Fi and EII, and EII-Ne and IEE?

[Rebelondeck]

The ENFps that I've known tended to have messy working and living quarters unless they were threatened with serious repercussions. The INFjs although very eclectic were always dressed appropriately and had everything well arranged, but didn't seem to care that much about what people thought; they were comfortable by themselves and only took people on their own INFj terms. Conversely, ENFp didn't seem as bothered about apparel or appearance but seemed to care greatly about what people said about them or being rejected, which I found somewhat paradoxical.

a.k.a. I/O

[Chae]

The ENFps that I've known tended to have messy working and living quarters unless they were threatened with serious repercussions. The INFjs although very eclectic were always dressed appropriately and had everything well arranged, but didn't seem to care that much about what people thought; they were comfortable by themselves and only took people on their own INFj terms. Conversely, ENFp didn't seem as bothered about apparel or appearance but seemed to care greatly about what people said about them or being rejected, which I found somewhat paradoxical.

a.k.a. I/O

Awesome spot-on description! To solve the riddle of the paradox: not being bothered by apparel is low Se and Si, caring about the opinion of others is high Fe and Fi. Ti is left behind in this process, hence it seems illogical.

The clue here is what is external and internal. Apparel is external material, opinions/appreciation is internal character assessment from person to person. Both can be confused so that's the hilarious thing about it

[Rebelondeck]

@Chae

My rationalization is somewhat different from yours but we arrive at the same conclusion. I think that ENFps are input junkies and one of the best places to gather input is at the center of attention so they care about maintaining that position; even being amidst turmoil might be considered very stimulating providing they could remain independent from it. However, they are so focused on others and the externally sourced information that they fail to notice themselves or think that that may be important. Conversely, INFjs focus on potential output from that data so they need clear, stable slates in order to rationalize properly, and in addition to the independence, they also need distance. Now ENFps need to rationalize like INFjs, but they'll likely do it after the event; INFjs must do it during the event so remain at the periphery and will tune out occasionally - likely missing a fair amount.

a.k.a. I/O

[Saoirse]

The ENFps that I've known tended to have messy working and living quarters unless they were threatened with serious repercussions. The INFjs although very eclectic were always dressed appropriately and had everything well arranged, but didn't seem to care that much about what people thought; they were comfortable by themselves and only took people on their own INFj terms. Conversely, ENFp didn't seem as bothered about apparel or appearance but seemed to care greatly about what people said about them or being rejected, which I found somewhat paradoxical.

a.k.a. I/O

Unfortunately, I strongly identify with the IEE part of this despite being EII. I think being sp-last in instincts makes my living quarters quite helter-skelter, and being so-first makes me care a lot about what people think of me.

I suppose that is another aspect to consider in OP's puzzle: OP, is your instinctual variant adding confusion? This test is pretty good at getting a first approximation for your instinctual strengths, and this article is a good resource for understanding instincts, as well as for finalizing your self-typing. E.g., some people might be clearly sp-last, but with close so and sx instincts. In this case, the test is not that accurate. Then you should read the article and figure out if you are so/sx or sx/so, as they have distinct flavors that you can understand only through learning about the relevant archetypes.

[noaydi]

Hi I'm still noid Ive unsubscribed to all personnality type forum, all doubtfull ideology stuff and other combative stuff in agreement with a friend and a wish to stop all these ill obsession even if I see potential in all that jazz, but I re-suscribed because I feel compelled to respond to my own thread.

So yes after reading more, I'm probably more INFj than ENFp even if I relate. It's hard to determine because as Ive said it's "almost like if I have two POLR" but Fe ignoring and Ni demonstrative is more true to me than the contrary. I came more aware too that Ive harder time with ESTp than ISTj like Ive said before : in fact, the only ESTp I relate too and convers with is the gf of an INFp friend. For example in a party setting, Ive 0 things to say to ESTp (especially man), it's easier with ISTj.

Introversion make sense too, but with age I'm far more extroverted or at least social.

Thx for all the info.

PS : Ive seen you discussed instinct here, do you think it can change with age ? I think in fact this is the only things that can change... Or perhaps it's like function, at the beginning you use only the one you prefer but with age you end using other one, the preffered staying in the same position...

edit : is it possible to live wihtout Ni ??? how ESTj do ? they live only by how they feel its good to do now ? Is Ni the function responsible for organizing ourself in the future ?
Or perhaps Ni is about unfolding how the future will developp, finding the better way it can devellop and Ne is about saying "no this can't be the only possibility" - "perhaps" instead of "it will be"
An estj friend said that I was far more future oriented than himself

Can't it be Te in itself responsible for that ? (if you are able to make cause and effect reasonning from logic, you can still imagine how the future will unfold in some way, because there is cause and effect wich "seem" to happen more often (cause A lead to B with 90% probability instead of cause A lead to C only 20% for example) so you can find always the better probability in the future event developping from experience)

[Rebelondeck]

Unfortunately, I strongly identify with the IEE part of this despite being EII.........

For EII over the age of 25, I would find this odd indeed because the many I have met seem to find comfort in a fair amount of order related to their environments; however, by order, I refer more to structure than keeping the dust bunnies down.

a.k.a. I/O

[Rebelondeck]

.......Introversion make sense too, but with age I'm far more extroverted or at least social.

.... is it possible to live wihtout Ni ???........Can't it be Te in itself responsible for that ?.........

In Socionics, the word extroversion should not refer to how comfortable one is socially, nor should introversion be synonymous with keeping to oneself. All types employ S & N and T & F because they cannot be fundamentally separated from one another; they describe necessary limits on ones input/output processing system so that an individual's brain can cope. I think to suggest that a single information element is responsible for a behaviour or an inability to do something would be rather shortsighted.

a.k.a. I/O

[noaydi]

Yes I know that, I was reffering to how UDP and another guy (I don't find where sry) said

[Saoirse]

For EII over the age of 25, I would find this odd indeed because the many I have met seem to find comfort in a fair amount of order related to their environments; however, by order, I refer more to structure than keeping the dust bunnies down.

Ha, well, I am 24... And yeah, my room and apartment are pretty busted in terms of both structure and dust bunnies.

Why do you think this is the case for EII over the age of 25, but not necessarily younger EII? Because of better developed Si?

[noaydi]

I noticed the same as Rebelondeck, at some point we are bored of having it all disorganized, so we clean a bit stuff, and we like that because we can make it a bit personnal, like decoration...

[Rebelondeck]

.....Why do you think this is the case for EII over the age of 25, but not necessarily younger EII?........

Because the average brain has not fully reached physiological stasis until approximately that age so I think that the fine tuning of type may also be ongoing........

a.k.a. I/O

[Saoirse]

Because the average brain has not fully reached physiological stasis until approximately that age so I think that the fine tuning of type may also be ongoing........

Do you mean sociotype is kind of fluid until 25? Can I become another sociotype?! Or do you just mean people don't necessarily evince all of the main traits of their type until that age?

Out of curiosity, may I ask what type you are?

Also, you don't think it could just be a difference due to instinctual variants? My non-self-pres-last EII friends are v organized, while my sx/so EII friend and I (so/sx) are pretty disorganized.

[Rebelondeck]

@Economist I (LII) think that sociotype is fluid but less so the closer one is to 25, plus or minus a year or two. Behaviour may not fully settle down until several years after this milestone. I think that being either Ij/Ep or Ip/Ej occurs fairly early in life but whether one becomes p or j occurs later. When one settles on N or S and T or F preferences will vary but the dominant likely settles out first; the brain has to determine the limits with which it's comfortable. When very young, input processes have to dominate until one gathers enough for personal references.

I find that cognitive behaviour (the key is if it wants to) will override most instinctual impulses - this is what makes us human. For me, a disorganized Ij is an oxymoron ; however this doesn't necessarily refer to clutter although a clutter free environment does reflect Ij rationalization processes.

I have expressed similar to the following elsewhere: An INFj will often behave like and ESTj when under stress or not doing well, which is the latent secondary mode of operation. However, the information results from these forays are later objectively dissected by normal rationalization processes possibly giving an impression of ISTj thinking.

a.k.a. I/O

[noaydi]

I declare many stuff today, so I declare myself EII.
100% accuracy