Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: ESI/ISFj male view on loyalty

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default ESI/ISFj male view on loyalty

    I have met 2 ESI men until now, one married and one unmarried whom I have been close with, but both of them had non-conservative views on sex and even though they were in love with their partner, I know they have cheated, and are very ashamed of it. it seems they have an obsession with beautiful women, and curious how it would feel to touch this new person, have a kind of experimental view on intimacy and hide this part of themselves from others ,including their dual, because they know I as LIE don't like people who can't control themselves and keep away from unethical acts.
    now it has made me curious, are all ESI men like this? isn't ESI supposed to be the most loyal friend/partner? why do they experiment with people while it is so unethical?

  2. #2
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    16,229
    Mentioned
    1553 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have a few male ESI friends and none of them has ever cheated, to the best of my knowledge.

    All males:
    ESI-Se, married to ILI since college, never cheated.
    ESI-Se, married to logical type with two kids but now divorced, I'm pretty sure he's never cheated.
    ESI-Fi, married to possible LIE female for one year, seems like he would never cheat.
    ESI-Fi, gay, not married, but dated an ILI for a few months, but said two introverts don't work.

    What I have seen is that they sometimes use Se force without much Ni insight as to its consequences. That might explain part of what you are seeing. They aren't going to wait around when action can resolve their uncertainty.

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    What I have seen is that they sometimes use Se force without much Ni insight as to its consequences. That might explain part of what you are seeing. They aren't going to wait around when action can resolve their uncertainty.
    you're right maybe not insight but having Fi program function should I think stop someone from doing such things for the sake of not feeling bad about it and themselves.
    uncertainty about what?
    the unmarried ESI said: "I don't get married because I know that if I do, I can't be loyal"

  4. #4
    back for the time being Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    europe
    TIM
    ExFx 3 sx
    Posts
    9,183
    Mentioned
    720 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I have met 2 ESI men until now, one married and one unmarried whom I have been close with, but both of them had non-conservative views on sex and even though they were in love with their partner, I know they have cheated, and are very ashamed of it. it seems they have an obsession with beautiful women, and curious how it would feel to touch this new person, have a kind of experimental view on intimacy and hide this part of themselves from others ,including their dual, because they know I as LIE don't like people who can't control themselves and keep away from unethical acts.
    now it has made me curious, are all ESI men like this? isn't ESI supposed to be the most loyal friend/partner? why do they experiment with people while it is so unethical?
    There are several possible explanations.

    - The sensing aspect you described - seeking beauty and touch - applies to all ESIs, especially the sensory subtype.
    - When they hide it, how do you know? (Although let me guess and make a little pun... strong intuition never LIEs)
    - Anybody can be non-conservative when raised like that. It's all about the environment sometimes. Although those novelty-seeking attitudes aren't ESI's forte - you might have mistyped both of them, and they are actually SEI.
    - Experimenting with people is really valued + ethics, so not ESI territory.
    - Loyalty is often related to enneagram 6 and either the SP instinct (settling down) and SX (bonding intensely). ESI-Fi 6w5 SP/SX isn't likely to cheat, their whole personality mechanism depends on devotion. ESI-Se 2w3 SO/SX is more likely to do it, although this is not imperative, 2w3 SO/SX is not born to cheat. The potential is just increased. The point just is, enneagram variation changes quite a lot about their beliefs around dedication.
    - It's not about socionics, but the concept of masculinity.
    - When they are ashamed, they know it's wrong, so you can work with that. A preventive convo is all you need. Ask questions in particular. Cheating really is about not meeting each other's needs directly and needing a way out.

  5. #5
    Adam Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    TIM
    ENTJ-1Te 8w7 sx/so
    Posts
    16,229
    Mentioned
    1553 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    In addition to what @Chae said, I think that a person who says they can't be loyal might either have a dismissive attachment style or may fear that they they might give their loyalty to the wrong person, and rather than do that, they won't give it to anyone. In other words, the idea that they will inevitably cheat could be an excuse to not commit at all. However, I don't think that this applies to any of the ESI's that I know. All of them seem to jump right in, sometimes without a lot (it seems to me) of forethought.

    To be candid I, myself, have some fear about committing to the wrong person. I have no trouble dating women about whom I am not serious. I have more trouble dating women who are real possibilities. I usually test as a Secure person, but I have an e8 fear of getting locked into a relationship with the wrong person, and this makes me cautious. Not to the point where I claim I will cheat (I don't cheat), but certainly to the point where I have said I won't be permanent.

    Alternately if, as you say, they are in love with their partner and cheated on them, then they might just be selfish and immature. This is not type related.

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    - When they hide it, how do you know? (Although let me guess and make a little pun... strong intuition never LIEs)
    yes that and I happened to hear it from an old friend, an IEE he brought up the topic and started judging the ESI for his choices.
    - Anybody can be non-conservative when raised like that. It's all about the environment sometimes.
    actually the interesting part is that they were both raised in conservative environments and lived in middle east!
    you might have mistyped both of them, and they are actually SEI.
    unfortunately I am 100% sure both are ESI

    - It's not about socionics, but the concept of masculinity.

  7. #7
    Number 9 large's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    4,404
    Mentioned
    244 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I have met 2 ESI men until now, one married and one unmarried whom I have been close with, but both of them had non-conservative views on sex and even though they were in love with their partner, I know they have cheated, and are very ashamed of it. it seems they have an obsession with beautiful women, and curious how it would feel to touch this new person, have a kind of experimental view on intimacy and hide this part of themselves from others ,including their dual, because they know I as LIE don't like people who can't control themselves and keep away from unethical acts.
    now it has made me curious, are all ESI men like this? isn't ESI supposed to be the most loyal friend/partner? why do they experiment with people while it is so unethical?
    Lol why would you bring in types onto this issue. People cant control themselves; big deal. Its been like this since forever. Some people cheat, some dont, doesnt really have anything to do with types, more with values and upbringing, discipline, and tons of other factors. Also "being obsessed by beautiful women" is not an ESI thing, its a straight male thing, sorry to pop your bubble.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    722
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Lol why would you bring in types onto this issue. People cant control themselves; big deal. Its been like this since forever. Some people cheat, some dont, doesnt really have anything to do with types, more with values and upbringing, discipline, and tons of other factors. Also "being obsessed by beautiful women" is not an ESI thing, its a straight male thing, sorry to pop your bubble.
    it's not a male thing. not every man is obsessed with beautiful women. and they both have had traditional upbringing.
    it isn't about personality? I think it mostly is, but if not then socionics shouldn't discuss which type is more loyal. if you read descriptions you can see that it describes ESI as one of the most loyal types. and "values" are also part of character in socionics

  9. #9
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    North Italy
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,806
    Mentioned
    245 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'd assume the "non married" one doesn't count, I would assume he sees his relationship as transitory if he's cheating - but I still think most ESIs would rather break up before cheating rather than having someone on the side.
    How did the married one start his relationship? Was it out of love or something else?

    Anyway, I had a male ESI-Se sx 6 friend who really liked to flirt with other women while in a relationship, but to my knowledge he never cheated. Once he was caught flirting with another woman via SMS and was suddenly terrified that his gf could leave him.

    Another male ESI 1w9 sx/so doesn't flirt with other women or cheats, but has super traditional views on women, it's a bit weird considering how his LIE wife is much better than him at repairing electronic stuff, understanding business, learning other languages...(but bad with housework, yes). Sometimes I meet him at (his) home for a coffee and me and his wife start trying to reprogram his and , he doesn't seem to like it that much, but it's probably good for him on the long run.
    Last edited by FDG; 08-15-2017 at 08:35 AM.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •