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Thread: SLE Thoughts

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    Explain to me how works for you, then. Make me a believer by explaining away the one (huge) piece that never fit While you're at it elaborate on how Leading is for you.

    Also who are "everyone"? lol, I don't think anyone here even knows who I am.


    And why is Wikisocion offline?
    Nevermind how your description of your cognition actually did match up with Herzy's. >_>

    Wikisocion is doing that to troll your .

    Idk, I'm pretty lazy and don't like spending much undirected time in physical reality (or any time, in a way that's not directed by me), so asking me to elaborate? I'll just say your description hit home for me too. I almost feel like I'm very blended in with the environment and just reacting to it, like someone took an eraser and rubbed me out on a piece of paper. I hardly feel like I'm here a lot of the time while simultaneously feeling like I'm more grounded than others. It feels like I'm in an intimate dance with reality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Nevermind how your description of your cognition actually did match up with Herzy's. >_>

    Wikisocion is doing that to troll your .

    Idk, I'm pretty lazy and don't like spending much undirected time in physical reality (or any time, in a way that's not directed by me), so asking me to elaborate? I'll just say your description hit home for me too. I almost feel like I'm very blended in with the environment and just reacting to it, like someone took an eraser and rubbed me out on a piece of paper. I hardly feel like I'm here a lot of the time while simultaneously feeling like I'm more grounded than others. It feels like I'm in an intimate dance with reality.
    How...poetic Did not expect this from you

    But you forgot the bit... That's the actual point, really.

    I downloaded Reinin's book and read it yesterday, it's precisely the fact his type profiles match so perfectly people I know that makes the whole thing so frustrating. The joke's on me, I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    Yes it did. I mean it's clear I most definitely value , but it isn't in a leading position. It's more of a background thing that sometimes seems to even "turn off" for brief periods. Or maybe I just lose conscience about it, because things like getting hit by something for example almost never ever happens, I have some sort of "spider sense" it seems. The thing about the clarity/sharpness of how you literally see things and people (like a 5k image) hit home and also the always knowing where sounds are coming from (I have super fine hearing, I can hear and place sounds like four streets below mine, and it's useless to whisper around me).

    Thing is I can't stay in physical reality observation mode for more than a short period unless I'm actively doing something with it, like playing a sport, hunting or photographing, or watching some sort of artistic display. It's just utterly boring and senseless otherwise, I'm going to give a specific example:my grandparents used to have this habit of placing themselves on chairs in their front yard or sometimes on the sidewalk in front of their houses after lunch, just to "observe the street". I could never understand what's the point of it, there's literally no joy or purpose in doing this, I mean, what do I get? People passing by, cars, it doesn't stimulate me at all, it doesn't feed my mind with anything. I become very itchy and impatient if I have to just stay put and observe the world so to speak, I'm like "Ok, so what am I supposed to be seeing?", it needs to have a point.
    That's Si though, not Se.

    It can be quite fun when you have no choice but to do that (if you're not in a "daydream" mood) like waiting for a bus or something like that. I just don't see what's so interesting in the physical world around me itself. What's interesting it's what happens in it, and what I do in it. As a child and even now I've always been an environment explorer, I'm quite curious and fearless in that sense, but it's because there's something to be discovered, it's new and more importantly, it's active.

    I also have this thing that don't really know if it's necessarily connected to cognitive type in a Jungian sense, but outsides noises are something I can't ignore at all unless I'm engaged on an interesting activity even if it's just an engaging conversation. Then I still can hear them, but they don't bother me, it's just white noise and I can still function on a high level. Otherwise if whatever I have to concentrate on isn't interesting, no matter how important, it's like virtually impossible to turn the world off because it's so loud and clear. It's almost like it's mocking me really, turning the volume up to see me suffer.

    It's at it's worse with music, it's like both my brain and body are addicted to it and I react to it like a puppet. This is why I can't listen to any sort of music while doing chores or reading anything, my attention goes 100% to the music and I can't control it, it's quite bizarre. I also start to dance (not always full out, but like with my feet, shoulders, neck or snapping my fingers to the beat) and sing along or hum songs without realizing, this phenomenon has put me through many embarrassing situations in the past, though I'm used to it now and so are people who know me, it only baffles strangers. When I can identify the impulse to do it and stop myself, it's like it literally hurts me, I can't even explain how uncomfortable it is. It also happens with aggression, I'm not always conscious of my own, but other people are hyper aware, they say they can feel the "waves" coming out of me and it's like there's a forcefield or something. I wouldn't know, I can' feel it myself, when I'm mad my attention is 200% zeroed in whatever it is I want to snap. Like in a trance.
    This sounds like extroverted Se valuer to me, more likely Beta. There is a big emotional component to what you're talking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    That's Si though, not Se.
    The second half fits the Socionics definition of it, yes.


    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    This sounds like extroverted Se valuer to me, more likely Beta. There is a big emotional component to what you're talking about.
    I was reading the forum members typing thread yesterday and someone was commenting on how a said supposed LSI user tend to question the theory when his typing doesn't fit it, instead of doing the opposite. I find myself doing it all the time with Socionics, because neither of the two possible types fits when I actually get to the functions. SLE doesn't fit because of it's usage, and EIE doesn't fit because of both (as you can see mine is fine) and it's general attitude towards logic.

    I considered LIE for a while but there's no way, I'm actually gonna look into other approaches to the stackings besides Model A for the first time. Because while the types themselves, subtypes and even inter types relations work very neaty compared to what I observe in reality, when I read the function by function profiles of real people types, there are major inconsistencies with real people of said types.

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    Considering temperaments (Ep, Ej, Ip, Ij)
    For all Eps the common thing is cycle between laziness and bursts of energy (and hence people get varied first expressions out of you... and tight schedule might become destructive in terms of expected output). Ejs are steady.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    Considering temperaments (Ep, Ej, Ip, Ij)
    For all Eps the common thing is cycle between laziness and bursts of energy (and hence people get varied first expressions out of you... and tight schedule might become destructive in terms of expected output). Ejs are steady.
    Not sure this is directed at me but if it is, then this is how I fit the temperaments:

    EP temperament

    The EP temperament, or flexible-maneuvering temperament, was identified by Viktor Gulenko and includes the four irrational extroverts (one in each quadra): ILE, SLE, SEE, and IEE. Each of these types is also static.


    Typical characteristics:
    flexible
    mobile
    impulsive, shifting from apparent inactivity to bursts of energy, often several times a day, showing impatience during them
    walk is energetic but "cat-like"
    often seems optimistic and open-minded
    inclined to fidget when forced to remain inactive for long periods
    entertains people easily and naturally
    EPs are both static and irrational, so they perceive reality as mostly not changing, and when it does, it's in abrupt "leaps" from one state to another. An EP is bothered by the lack of change, especially as seen through his leading function, since his personal preference is for change. That makes him impulsive, with sudden bursts of action, energy, or even just thought, as he tries to get his perceptions "moving".


    As extroverts, EPs tend to be feel that it is up to them to initiate contacts with other people, and EPs in particular tend to feel quite natural in that role.


    Perception of other temperaments:
    EJ: EPs perceive EJs as active but too restless and nervous, slightly annoying due to a lack of sense of spontaneity.
    IP: EPs perceive IPs as pleasantly flexible and responsive to their initiatives, sometimes too unpredictable but for that very reason never boring.
    IJ: EPs perceive IJs as too predictable and boring, too unwilling to do things on the spur of the moment.
    EJ temperament


    The EJ temperament, or linear-assertive temperament, was identified by Viktor Gulenko and includes the four rational extroverts (one in each quadra): ESE, EIE, LIE, and LSE. Each of these types is also dynamic.


    Typical characteristics:
    proactive
    restless
    difficult to relax unless tired
    walk tends to be quick-paced and "purposeful", as well as stiff
    "calmly energetic" with few intense variations in the level of energy during the day
    inclined to fidget when forced to remain inactive for long periods
    EJs are both dynamic and rational, so they see reality as in continuous, gradual, often imperceptible change. At the same time, an EJ has his own views of what reality "should" be. This inclines him to be quick to take action, normally using his leading function, in order to make sure things will remain, or become, as they should be, before change can get too far.


    As extroverts, EJs tend to feel that it is up to them to initiate contacts with other people, whether in the context of establishing or maintaining a relationship. They will not necessarily act on that, though, and sometimes wish others would take over this role.


    Perception of other temperaments:
    EP: EJs see EPs as unpredictable and moody, and therefore a bit irritating, but also as extremely energetic once they do focus on doing something, as well as the source of initiatives that may be worthwhile.
    IP: EJs see IP as unpredictable, moody, as well as too passive and unreliable, especially if they are required to show initiative or even reciprocity.
    IJ: EJs see IJs as solid, reliable, and reassuringly predictable, and usually not inclined towards being the first to take the initiative in taking action.

    People's first impression of me never factored on my self-typings though, because they indeed vary a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    SLE doesn't fit because of it's usage, and EIE doesn't fit because of both (as you can see mine is fine) and it's general attitude towards logic.
    You actually seem pretty good at describing yourself, could you explain why this is the case? I agree LIE is unlikely, too much Fe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    You actually seem pretty good at describing yourself, could you explain why this is the case? I agree LIE is unlikely, too much Fe.
    Well this is what Reining has to say on SLE's :

    Function #4- subjective intuition ():I want the world to be in harmony and beautiful. I want to feel good so do something”. A Zhukov’s thirst for inner peace is the biggest than any others’. He does not know how to manage his own feelings. He needs external influence to have a change of mood. Therefore he resorts to common means of changing the mood: alcohol, drugs. Some of them get into verbal fights. This is a very interesting channel of suggestion because this type is usually at the top and we run into them in burocratic structures. They are difficult to be around because they have hard time managing their moods and emotions, they are unpredictable.
    Which doesn't fit reality except for the bolded part (and even then it's something that's more entertaining than serious to me, which I don't expect everyone to understand), but not nearly as ill fitting as his description of what the actual 4th function entails:

    Function number four.
    Suggestive function. The principle of "place assessment". Motives. "I want to"

    This is a function through which a suggestion might be done most easily. In the fourth function area an individual is open for external influences. Depending on which type the person belongs to; different outer signals have more or less impact on him or her. It is often thought (often confirmed at public hypnosis sessions) that 7 to 10 % of people yield to hypnosis while others do not. I believe that it is just not so. Each person is subject to suggestive psychotherapy. The problem is that the techniques of trance induction used at public sessions work effectively only with one or two out of sixteen types, the rest of the audience does not respond.
    While the first function is about "things I have sufficient knowledge about", the fourth function is about "what other people know". Here a person is prone to be guided by others, to lean on external authority. In practice of suggestive psychotherapy and hypnosis a concept of rapport is used: the concept of connection between the hypnotist and the object of hypnosis. Each type has a 'built-in' rapport with the external world. This is the core of the fourth function. Here the person is most gullible and open for external information, he takes it in without discernment.
    Each IM type has an area open for suggestion, so everyone has this breach for gullibility. And I believe it would be good for people who are, so to speak, interested in inner their mechanics, to know about this feature of their type. It is useful to know what happens when the external world somehow manipulates you. It is good to be on guard be able to detect, recognize and correct such influences, it does not mean you are on defense (in my opinion, it is not good to be on defense from the external world); it means that your behavior is conscious.
    Good knowledge of one's fourth function is very important from the point of view of increase of one's level of awareness. As a rule, in this area people are hypochondriacal. Strange things happen here. For example, other people know whether I am ill or healthy. Others tell me whether I am in love or not. In this sphere a person is not discerning. As a rule he/she simply does not pay attention to a suggestion. It might be recognized later, when experiencing a new quality of state. Usually it is not recognized at all. However, when I know this trait of my personality, I have a chance to discern an attempt to manipulate me at an earlier stage. And as soon as the attempt is discerned, it is not unconscious any more. Then I am in control, allowing or blocking certain influences. It is a very interesting research – learning about the areas where I am open, hypochondriacal or unprotected. To begin with when exposed to certain influences pay attention to your automatisms.
    Usually people are unaware of the fourth function, and are prone to create situations where 'programming' occurs. Often such behavior appears to be a process of collecting of strategies, estimations, and information processing techniques. And in the same area uneasiness and anxiety are frequent. Even gross flattery and obvious disinformation presented through the channels of the fourth function have good chances to pass without criticism.

    If the active set of stereotypes and habitual reactions in this sphere is extensive enough, the person may look rather effective in corresponding area. Unlike the situation with the second function, this efficiency is discrete – when facing unusual, non-standard environment all efficiency may disappear.
    The subject matter of the fourth function is often used as the criteria for assessing a place, for example: “I am loved here, so the place is good ” (Maxim). Here person's motivation ("I want to") is detected: “I want to be loved”.
    The third and fourth functions affect the choice of the social niche. As a rule, we look for a place in a society where these functions would be protected in one way or another. It happens instinctively.
    Why do I need to know the fourth function of the type? The better I know the programming channels, the less I am exposed to external influences. It is a challenge for everyone with any IM type.
    Thing is is most definitely not the channel through which I can be suggestible because information pertaining this function is something I provide others with, and not the opposite, I'm hardly if ever unaware of it, don't fret about it, and I don't think anyone would classify any circle I'm part of as a heavy environment. It's a very private thing for me actually, I only discuss it online and even then only to a certain extent for several reasons. If there's anything I'm totally comfortable with and confident about is .

    Another thing that doesn't fit SLE at all is :

    Function #-1 subjective sensoring (): health is in the area of ignoring. A Zhukov has a "farmer's attitude" in health issues: "I shall plough until I drop dead in my furrow." When he does get sick having spent all his strength in feverish activity) he allows others to take care of them. Only when they are burnt out they might agree to take some time off at a resort or a hospital. People of this type should remember this because people are not indestructible; they are not sources of endless energy. However, they should not stay away from work completely. A Zhukov needs to learn to control this area of life. Not all of them are capable of doing that.
    A Zhukov is not a picky eater: he expects food to be plentiful and filling, it should not be some choice food, but it should be esthetically pleasing.
    This is like, the opposite of my attitude towards health and food, I'm super aware of my resources and I protect them fiercely, I'm also quie particular and demanding when it comes to what I consume.

    As for EIE, these are both really off base, but specially the bolded:

    Function #4(suggestible) - subjective logic (): a good place is where I understand everything. A Hamlet may accept things because they sound logical. A Hamlet and a Hugo are the two types who enjoy the most attending lectures, meetings, discussions, etc. (see description of a Hugo). The key thing here is that they need a structure and they need to be able to understand what’s going on. They accept other people’s explanation of how everything works and what is right and wrong. A good place is the place where I understand everything, where things have been explained to me and I understood. A Hamlet is open for outside influences through explanations.

    Function #-4- objective logic (): the zone of fears. “To be or not to be?” – this is a Hamlet’s classical question. Alas, it is necessary to make a decision! What is going to happen after I make a decision? Nobody knows, and this is frightening... When a choice is made there is freedom for creativity. It is a purely a hamletian problem – the fear of realization, of definiteness, irreversibility of a made decision. Even if it is clear that it is absolutely necessary to move (to put things in order; to make a legal implementation), but somehow there is never enough time.
    A Hamlet has to make efforts to feel more or less confidently in the area where decision-making is a necessity. A Hamlet never puts other people's things in order and hardly ever organizes his/her own belongings.
    NB! People of this type are susceptible to illness in the upper air passages.
    If anything I'm way too suspicious and skeptical about information I do not find out or come across myself, and I hate when people try to feed me their own conclusions whenever I ask them direct questions (not opinions). Then there's the fact that I make decisions too early on. I might change them later on, sometimes more than once and even last minute if I get new reliable facts or a strong intuition, but I don't put off on picking an option and I'm always at least 90% confident about the one I choose at the time. Even with typing all these years of MBTI and more recently Socionics, I absolutely hate not having a type to call my own, it's the first time ever I don't have one in my profile.

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