Ashton

[Gilly]

If you know a single thing about VI, and you have seen a picture of Ashton, you would not EVER say that he is an ESTp. Not a chance. And since there is a type confusion about Ashton between ESTp and ENTj, I'm going to go ahead and say that VI is decisive in this case. ENTj it is. I have yet to see a strong enough case for as a dominant function that would override both Ashton's own opinion of his own psyche as WELL as VI, so if you have one, please, offer it.

[oyburger]

He has very expressive eyes

I know very little about VI, but he just reminds me so much of Daniel. However, there are other similar correaltions between them that have nothing to do with socionics that could affect type, which could be why I see a similarity between them.

[FDG]

Gilligan, I do not understand why you like to spread non-truths. It is such an obvious case of ESTp by V.I. - especially by V.I. Though I am really not going to pick the fight, since it's up to him to admit the truth or not.

[Joy]

Gilly went to the SG school of VIing... it's not his fault...

but yes, Ashton VIs as ESTp for sure. Remember him being called the "frat boy"?

[Gilly]

If you think he's an ESTp by VI, then you CLEARLY have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. The sharp jaw line, elongated and angular face, and contained/limited expressions ALL indicate ExTj, as do other things that I won't go into here, unless prompted. And I, for one, don't think Ashton is ESTj.

I'd be curious to see what Expat has to say in terms of how Ashton VIs.

Oh, and I went to the SG school of VI? What the fuck is that? I disagree with SG on practically everything in terms of VI. And what the fuck does being called a frat boy have to do with being an ESTp? Are you retarded? Do you even know anyone who belongs to a fraternity? I know plenty, garunteed more than you do, and it has absolutely dick shit to do with being dominant.

[Joy]

(it's not about Se)

Where did you learn these rules of VI?

[Gilly]

Experience.

And for the record, that smiley makes me want to fucking stab you. Please stop.

[Joy]

someone woke up not feeling so great today

Sorry, I will continue to chuckle at your statement about how you know plenty of people who belong to fraternities silently...

[Gilly]

I feel fine. I'm not hung over, I didn't drink last night, and I got plenty of sleep. Don't bring my psychological condition into this as a way of illegitimizing my behavior and justifying your own.

[Joy]

I didn't say there was any specific reason for your crankiness.

And I have nothing to justify.

[Expat]

I'd be curious to see what Expat has to say in terms of how Ashton VIs.

Thanks, but please note that I give secondary (while still significant) importance to VI.

As for Ashton and ESTps. Personally I tend to give lesser value to "genetic" stuff like jaw line and elongated face. I don't have a characteristically elongated face myself, and no wonder -- it's the same kind of facial structure as my father (ISFp), brother (ENTp) and grandfather (suspected ENTj).

I only remember seeing one picture of Ashton, where he simply looks like a very tall and thin guy, resembling Oyburger's husband somewhat, as she just said. I would prefer to concentrate on general expressions and movements rather than that picture.

So, this may seem like a wishy-washy answer but the truth is that from that one single picture I have seen I wouldn't know whether he is ESTp or ENTj.

Oh, and I went to the SG school of VI? What the fuck is that? I disagree with SG on practically everything in terms of VI.

I have to support Gilligan on this and I think that generally he VIs very well, getting it right, or nearly right, so often that for me it already disproves the notion, on occasion still raised, that there is nothing to VI.

EDIT: Joy and Gilligan, please don't let it get worse.

[Gilly]

Perhaps Ashton himself would be willing to provide a few pictures.

[aestrivex]

anybody who puts any faith into VI is an idiot.

[Animal]

I think what Gilligan is saying is:

Remember him being called the "frat boy"?

What has that got to do with anything? There's plenty of guys of all different types in fraternities these days. If you don't believe me, go to the nearest university's Frat Row during rush week. And, not only that, but Ashton has actually expressed a sort of disdain for/isolation from the sensors he's around most of the time.

[XoX]

Why not ESFp?

[Gilly]

Not ethical. NOT ETHICAL.

[Gilly]

Wait wait wait...


































NOT ETHICAL

[XoX]

Not ethical. NOT ETHICAL.

Why? WHY? I was just thinking he seems to value INTps pretty high. Perhaps higher than other types. Perhaps they are his duals. Not a very good case though. But there must be some reason why he sees INTps sooooooo cool. Perhaps just a personal preference.

[Joy]

no, he values "INTps" highly... as opposed to INTps

[Gilly]

So who's type are you questioning now, Joy? Enough with the cryptic bullshit, let's cut to the chase

[Joy]

sorry. I'm not in the mood (nor do I have the time to) argue right now

[oyburger]

He's can be an ethical person, but certainly not an ethical socionics type.

[discojoe]

This topic brought to you by George's vanity.

[Joy]

it's okay

everyone's got a vice

[FDG]

"Ashton has actually expressed a sort of disdain for/isolation from the sensors he's around most of the time."

Me too, of course, that's why I had mystiped myself.

[FDG]

Not ethical. NOT ETHICAL.

Why? WHY? I was just thinking he seems to value INTps pretty high. Perhaps higher than other types. Perhaps they are his duals. Not a very good case though. But there must be some reason why he sees INTps sooooooo cool. Perhaps just a personal preference.

Because they are cool!

[Expat]

anybody who puts any faith into VI is an idiot.

So how do you explain that it's more often accurate than sheer chance would justify? Or you dispute this statement? Before you say it - I can't prove it now. I haven't kept an exact track of the times VI got it right. However, when I ask people of the forum or in the chat to VI someone whose type I am reasonably certain of, the VI typings are very often close to the right answer, if not always exactly right. To my own satisfaction, this happens too often to be just coincidence, although I would never give VI a greater weight than functional use.

[Ms. Kensington]

Personally I tend to give lesser value to "genetic" stuff like jaw line and elongated face. I don't have a characteristically elongated face myself, and no wonder -- it's the same kind of facial structure as my father (ISFp), brother (ENTp) and grandfather (suspected ENTj).

I have to support Gilligan on this and I think that generally he VIs very well, getting it right, or nearly right, so often that for me it already disproves the notion, on occasion still raised, that there is nothing to VI.

hm doesn't Ganin use kinda "genetic" stuff too? and isn't an "elongated" frame genetic?

[Expat]

hm doesn't Ganin use kinda "genetic" stuff too? and isn't an "elongated" frame genetic?

Sure. I disagree with that particular bit of Gilligan's argument, but he does not use the same criteria as SG. I meant that I support Gilligan as good in VI generally speaking.

[Phaedrus]

Personally I tend to give lesser value to "genetic" stuff like jaw line and elongated face. I don't have a characteristically elongated face myself, and no wonder -- it's the same kind of facial structure as my father (ISFp), brother (ENTp) and grandfather (suspected ENTj).

I have to support Gilligan on this and I think that generally he VIs very well, getting it right, or nearly right, so often that for me it already disproves the notion, on occasion still raised, that there is nothing to VI.

hm doesn't Ganin use kinda "genetic" stuff too? and isn't an "elongated" frame genetic?

Of course it is. I personally think that not giving any value at all to genetic stuff is absurd. V.I. is clearly based on genetic stuff, but perhaps it is not only based on that.

The main thing to remember is that everyone who has put some serious effort into V.I. and investigated it without prejudices, tends to agree that V.I. is not bullshit. Anyone who disagrees with that is either ignorant or an idiot.

[dreikin]

Personally I tend to give lesser value to "genetic" stuff like jaw line and elongated face. I don't have a characteristically elongated face myself, and no wonder -- it's the same kind of facial structure as my father (ISFp), brother (ENTp) and grandfather (suspected ENTj).

I have to support Gilligan on this and I think that generally he VIs very well, getting it right, or nearly right, so often that for me it already disproves the notion, on occasion still raised, that there is nothing to VI.

hm doesn't Ganin use kinda "genetic" stuff too? and isn't an "elongated" frame genetic?

Of course it is. I personally think that not giving any value at all to genetic stuff is absurd. V.I. is clearly based on genetic stuff, but perhaps it is not only based on that.

Whether or not that genetic 'stuff' is used, that doesn't guarantee it is correct. A lot of VI can be attributed to the effect habitual expression has on the development of the features - eg, muscular developement and memory of particular expressions.

The main thing to remember is that everyone who has put some serious effort into V.I. and investigated it without prejudices, tends to agree that V.I. is not bullshit. Anyone who disagrees with that is either ignorant or an idiot.

Please try not to be so inflammatory - especially without providing evidence to support your assertion. There are plenty of other cases where people investigated something in depth and still drew incorrect conclusions, conclusions shared by a fair amount of other people as well. Besides, appeal to authority doesn't work to well in a system with so many differing authorities.

[Capitalist Pig]

Remember him being called the "frat boy"?

I've been meaning to make fun of him again for that soon, it's been long overdue since its last mention. In fact, the point of this post three pages later was to remind everybody.

Frat boy, hehehehehehehe.

[FDG]

Yeah lol all ESTp look like dumb frat boy jocks


Oh wait, i forgot i am one too

[XoX]

Yeah lol all ESTp look like dumb frat boy jocks

Oh wait, i forgot i am one too

Aww. Don't worry. You don't look dumb at all

[Phaedrus]

Whether or not that genetic 'stuff' is used, that doesn't guarantee it is correct. A lot of VI can be attributed to the effect habitual expression has on the development of the features - eg, muscular developement and memory of particular expressions.

Maybe. But a lot of V.I also has to do with body types - at least I include that in V.I.

The main thing to remember is that everyone who has put some serious effort into V.I. and investigated it without prejudices, tends to agree that V.I. is not bullshit. Anyone who disagrees with that is either ignorant or an idiot.

Please try not to be so inflammatory - especially without providing evidence to support your assertion. There are plenty of other cases where people investigated something in depth and still drew incorrect conclusions, conclusions shared by a fair amount of other people as well. Besides, appeal to authority doesn't work to well in a system with so many differing authorities.

I only said that about being ignorant or an idiot as a response to niffweed's earlier post. My point is that one should not dismiss V.I. if one doesn't know anything about it. It is better to keep an open mind about it than to base one's view on prejudices.

And I am not appealing to authority here. What I say is based on my own research and my own observations. The word "serious" is a key word in the expression "everyone who has put some serious effort into V.I.". My point is that it is my firm personal opinion that none of those who think that V.I. is bullshit has made any serious investigation of it.

[aestrivex]

So how do you explain that it's more often accurate than sheer chance would justify? Or you dispute this statement? Before you say it - I can't prove it now. I haven't kept an exact track of the times VI got it right. However, when I ask people of the forum or in the chat to VI someone whose type I am reasonably certain of, the VI typings are very often close to the right answer, if not always exactly right. To my own satisfaction, this happens too often to be just coincidence, although I would never give VI a greater weight than functional use.

ok, i won't try to dispute this, because others on this forum do seem to use VI with an adequate amount of success.

i, however, do not see the merits of the method. and certainly, VI cannot be taken into more consideration than analysis of functions/descriptions/dichotomies/etc.

[Suz]

BUMP.


I know I'll get heat for bringing this up, but I'm just gonna go ahead and throw out the ISTj suggestion. I mean, I could see it making sense.

I dont mean to be mean, i really like you starfall... but i just dont see how an ISTj typing for Ashton would make ANY sense whatsoever.

He's with an SEE, he gets along with gammas the best and most deltas and seems to be most fond of Fi-valuers. You're putting him in your quadra, perhaps because you like him too , but you ARE neighboring quadra. I like him a lot too and he's not in my quadra.

[ArchonAlarion]

Christopher Langan reminds me of Ron Swanson






Wow, and listening to Langan's video part 3, I have no doubt he is an Introverted Thinker, and I gained a new respect for the intellectual form of ISTj.

[Suz]

Nah, he just really reminds me of Christopher Langan



and these




Yeah, I realize that I am only basing this on VI lol

I dont think any of those look remotely like Ashton... his gaze is totally different, much softer and kinder.

[Suz]

Christopher Langan reminds me of Ron Swanson

The only similarity there is the moustache and the sorta full face. Again, the gaze is totally different.