I had a cat as an adolescent and I took care of her almost by myself 100%. We had an excellent relationship. She was very smart though, some SEE cat I believe, she knew how to make me do everything for her by asking in the right way.
What I can't do that well is gardening, either I devote all my energy to that or I forget completely, and that's not so good with plans.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Should LIEs be allowed to breed?
I think socionics has a problem, then. I'm supposed to be Si polr, but like other adult humans with varied responsibilities, I must pay attention to others' physical needs, and manage to do so reasonably well. Moreover, I've only ever known one EIE who definitely had a hard time dealing with physical needs, but he was a ferocious chain smoker who had a devastating stroke and ended up in a wheelchair.Originally Posted by thehotelambush
Taking care of physical needs is dependent on strength inin socionics -- so yes, this applies to intuitives in general. Showing affection is more about ethics though.
I don't see how something that gets at sheer physical survival would be factored out in all people with weak Si. It seems anti-evolutionary.
I've said before that I don't have a big problem taking care of dogs, cats, and kids because they usually let you know what they need. Plants are harder because they don't talk or howl, and I have a hard time interpreting what they need. At least if they're outdoor plants, I can pay attention to natural conditions, but indoor plants are a big mess. 'Tis a shame, as I like plants.
There is perhaps some cross-over about who would enjoy these type of activities based on how they process the world, but as you say, suggesting that some people aren't capable of basic survival is at least questionable, at worse just drivel.
CETERUM AUTEM CENSEO WASHINGTON D.C. ESSE DELENDAM
I've commonly seen in the literature that LIE's avoid doctors and often ignore their own health issues, and this is probably related to what Chae said:
The dog I had was pretty easy to take care of. As @FDG mentioned, it is easier to take care of an animal if it lets you know what it needs, and mine did. I have a very hard time judging what people need, or when it is appropriate to go to a doctor, so I tend to simply ask them what they want, and trust other people's judgement before mine in these matters.
The times when I have damaged myself significantly, I've tended to simply rise above the pain and soldier on, expecting that the damage will eventually fix itself. This is not always a good strategy. My mother told me that I strongly resemble her father (and I do think he might have been LIE) but he died at the age of 54 (when I was 1 year old), because he hid the fact from his wife and kids that he had high blood pressure and was having small strokes.
I think I'm sub-consciously aware of my Si-PoLR, because I married an SLI, partly to compensate for my lack of Si. She basically took care of all the health-related processes in the marriage by dictating regular checkups and shots, plus making sure there was insurance, etc.
It is interesting to see what has happened since our divorce. She got a cat, and she has that cat on a regular schedule and diet. It gets exactly so much food, at exactly such and so time, and she never deviates from that schedule. She gives no consideration to the fact that cats can be social animals, and the fact that if she is eating, then the cat expects to share in the kill. But that is not what happens. If her meal time and the cat's do not coincide for any reason, and she eats and it's not time for the cat to eat, the cat is left watching her eat, and is spectacularly left out of the group kill.
I've watched the cat during these times, and I will say, she's lucky that cat isn't bigger.
Overall, I prefer children to pets, because children continue to get smarter.
What do you mean?Another perspective: If the LIE is self-pres last, it's probably not recommendable
People can build up their 1D and 2D functions through experience, basically, they're more of skills than talents. It's fairly common for Si PoLRs to suck at taking care of themselves and others on some level (it's much more common for them to mix weird food together in a bowl and eat it in front of others), but it's not like the vast majority actually starve themselves to death, and ditto for starving puppies and kittens to death.
I can't speak for Chae, but it does seem to me that if Socionics is real, and the Enneagram instincts are real, then Sp would be a possible factor in questions like this, not just Si.
No more than you it seems. In any case, you being LIE, I find it it difficult to understand how you can not see the value of this question. It is related to LIE's Si PoLR.
"I'm an LIE, and I have a pet whom I have not starved to death, don't you know a lot of LIEs with pets you idiot?" Te > Ti, basically
That's interesting. Although I'm certainly not a Ti valuing type, so that must mean one of us is mistyped.
I'm pretty sure he is just kidding around/playfully trolling, after all look at his avatar. I wouldn't take his comments too seriously and instead just view them as practical jokes. And yes, LIEs, in spite of all their rationality, are capable of doing what he is doing. Result Te has a tendency to speak its thoughts without bothering to explain. Your interaction with him was a good example of Process/Result differences in thinking, with you "immersing" yourself in the subject question and him looking at the question from a detached, surface viewpoint.
Last edited by Muddy; 11-27-2016 at 03:35 PM.
Are you familiar with the instincts? I referred to SX/SO and SO/SX.
I imagine a LIE would be a more of a rational being, more interested in productive discussion instead of playful banter. I don't think I'm a process type either. One thing is that people that are not LIE don't understand the question posed in the thread; another thing is that a self-typed LIE (moreover, a LIE-Ni, where the +Si PoLR is emphasized) doesn't understand it either.
Aha right right
But I think that a Si PoLR would see my point here
Nope every description basically says the opposite
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
@Andreas
As a dog, your input is highly valued.
Did they ever starve you?
Were they smelly because they couldn't realize when they needed a shower?
Were they bipolar, highly attentive one minute and then cold the next?
Do LIEs sometimes starve themselves to death, forcing you to feast on their corpse for subsistence?
What was it like. Please do share.
I think this perception of LIE actually applies more to EIE. LIEs are result emotivist, meaning they are more likely to play around and avoid deep philosophical discussion. Their Te manifest more as a desire to do only things that benefit themselves rather then making lectures on being productive. EIE is the constructivist, process type, and therefore more inclined towards deep, intellectual discussion. The EIE's desire to bring change and forward movement can mimic the LIE's attention towards productivity, the difference between them is that EIE is more focused on getting others to do something while the LIE is more concerned about what benefits themselves exclusively, only getting involved with those who interfere with their own productivity, like a crappy player negatively effecting their score while playing sports. I'm guessing that you EIE rather then LIE.
Last edited by Muddy; 11-27-2016 at 07:32 PM.
Okay, last night in chat an Si valuer (@SyrupDeGem) talked a lot about butter. I was already in a conversation about food, with @uniden, whom I feel pretty safe discussing food with. (And @uniden, I hope you don't mind my saying that this is in part because there was a time when you knew nothing about cooking whatsoever, and I encouraged you to learn more because I thought you'd be good at it and find it gratifying, and also sometimes when I'm talking to you I'm thinking, "What would his dual do?")
But regarding what Gem was saying about butter, I just really can't process this information well. (@Gem, that's not meant as criticism whatsoever, Gem, because many people talk this way about self-care subjects and I'm sure it's valid but hit the wall.) For me it's not actionable because it's not even remotely a priority for me, and I sometimes actually don't agree with the information but it's not the sort of subject I care to debate. In the realm of choosing butter, I'll pay extra to get a decent product, but I'm going to spend about 20 seconds on that decision.
So maybe this conversation reveals something about how I as an evident non-Si-valuer can care about things like food or cooking but still have a line where information about it becomes uncomfortable for me. What I'd initially thought about saying upthread is that sometimes Si valuers seem to centralize, elevate, or even fetishize things related to bodily needs etc. When they do this, I start to shut down.
But it doesn't mean that every living thing around me is going to die lol.
goldenbane Today 03:02 AM
https://www.blueapron.com/recipes/gr...d-fennel-salad
goldenbane Today 03:03 AM
that's the recipe
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:04 AM
consider that recipe... saved
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:04 AM
I saved thanksgiving you know. with my cooking
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:04 AM
right before I went to work. I made mashed potatoes and gravy.
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:04 AM
and when I got back from work... it turns out... I was the only one to make anything
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:04 AM
lol
goldenbane Today 03:04 AM
oh, you can make mashed potatoes with creme fraiche btw
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:04 AM
the holidays are so shambles
goldenbane Today 03:05 AM
and if you like garlic, you can stick a couple of cloves in the boiling water with the potatos
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:05 AM
ah
goldenbane Today 03:05 AM
and it's loveleh
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:05 AM
I bet it tastes great with creme fraiche
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:05 AM
I just used butter and heavy whipping cream
goldenbane Today 03:05 AM
you just mash the garlic right in
goldenbane Today 03:05 AM
butter is my favorite thing
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:05 AM
I was like iron chef. Trying to balance out and uplift the flavors on a tight work schedule deadline
goldenbane Today 03:05 AM
I'm going to miss butter in the apocalypse
goldenbane Today 03:06 AM
I'm just kinda like . . . aluminum chef
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:06 AM
garlic goes great with potatoes. Well. I just really like garlic so I'm biased
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:06 AM
heh
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:06 AM
well idk I think people miss the fat content of butter
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:06 AM
there fats in other things
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:06 AM
and some very good alternatives to butter
goldenbane Today 03:06 AM
I love fat content
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:07 AM
some mimic butters
goldenbane Today 03:07 AM
it's pretty much what I live for
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:07 AM
lol
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:07 AM
nuts are full of fats
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:07 AM
a handful of brazils is very filling
goldenbane Today 03:07 AM
anyway I think butter can be good for you if you don't overdo it
goldenbane Today 03:07 AM
I'm hoping the war on fats is over
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:08 AM
i think butter from a good source can be ok for you in moderation
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:08 AM
the right salt and seasoning balance helps with not needing as much butter
goldenbane Today 03:08 AM
here's okay-looking info from a lame source: https://authoritynutrition.com/7-rea...-good-for-you/
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:08 AM
but you can replace butter with olive oil in mash potato and it tastes pretty good if you have the seasoning right
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:09 AM
do you think the recount can save democracy
goldenbane Today 03:09 AM
I like olive oil, but I'm pro-butter
goldenbane Today 03:09 AM
No, uniden, I don't, really
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:09 AM
do you use butter to cook eggs
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:09 AM
ah
goldenbane Today 03:10 AM
I think if the recount were to overturn the Trump presidency, people would stream out of places like Oklahoma with their gun collections
and kill all the so-called coastal elites
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:10 AM
i'm vegan so I can't really say i'm pro butter personally
goldenbane Today 03:10 AM
I don't currently use a lot of butter in a pan as a bed to cook things in bc it smokes too much
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:10 AM
but I do think you will get the health benefits mentioned in the article ONLY if you use a good source
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:10 AM
i.e a trusted small farm
goldenbane Today 03:10 AM
and I live in an apartment with lame kitchen ventilation
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:11 AM
I'm not sure what would make for a bigger civil war. The recount overturning the election or the electors overturning the election
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:11 AM
yeah I have the same issues with butter
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:11 AM
nt something you buy in a supermarket
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:11 AM
getting it all spready without all burnty
goldenbane Today 03:12 AM
it just has a low smoke point is all
goldenbane Today 03:12 AM
you can turn down the heat
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:12 AM
most supermarket butters will have added vitamins and healthy fats because the source will contains little natural stuff owing to the quality of it
goldenbane Today 03:12 AM
until the butter is mostly absorbed by whatever you're making?
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:12 AM
in which case you may as well have anything with the flavouring they use
goldenbane Today 03:13 AM
yes, well, I'm feeling Si-polr and tired
goldenbane Today 03:13 AM
good night!
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:13 AM
mega industrial animal farms are particularly bad in the us
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:13 AM
I was wondering why you were up at this time at all lol
SyrupDeGem - Report Shout Today 03:13 AM
lol
uniden - Report Shout Today 03:13 AM
night!
There is a difference between what the stereotypes of what a type is supposed to be are, and what people of that type turn out to be. This means using socionics in the real world and checking things out, not only going by the theory and descriptions. I've never said that I'm LIE, don't assume things.
Descriptions are heavily geared towards a Te subtype LIE, and also enneagram 7.
Going out into the real world and checking things out might be helpful for the person doing it but unfortunately that does nothing to help convince people in online discussions, where people have no idea what you do in your daily life. Learning through experience or book learning does not automatically translate into a higher chance of being correct, it is often beneficial to get at least some of both but not always. For examples of real-world experiences that can be wrong just look into all those bogus eye-witness accounts of supernatural events and creatures. The reason I assumed you typed as LIE is because of where you said "one of us must be mistyped".
If you never check things with the real world, it is very likely that you could very well be building castles in the air. But you've made a decent observation that it is difficult to convice others using that argument. That's why everyone should check things for themselves before believing anything. Knowing the theory is good, but if it doesn't actually reflect reality, it is of no use.
I was referring to Verbrannte's comment that our difference in opinion was because I was a Ti valuer and Anglas was a Te valuer. I consider myself a Te valuer, so what I meant is that either:
a)I am a Te valuer but he is not a Te valuer.
b)We are both Te valuers but have a difference of opinion.
c)I am mistaken and I am actually a Ti valuer (he could still be not a Te valuer).
d)It is not type related (the original statement was incorrect).
Can you please give an example? Even some playful banter of a cheerful LIE is for a productive reason, maybe for benefit
This thread is getting off point. I think I have got my answer, so thanks everyone, final conclusion is a LIE should be trained more than a Si valuer, to own a pet, but can own one nevertheless. However it does not come naturally to us, to understand the pet's sensory needs, we have to research and train ourselves. I certainly don't have time for that. Maybe in the future.
Well, the external effect is anyhow playful banter and cheerfulness, isn't it?
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Actually from my experience the Ni subtype is the jokey subtype, considering that peak-positivism is reached with peak-mixed-subtype.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
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