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Thread: USA politics following Trump's election

  1. #201
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    O burn...:

    Angela Merkel says Germany can no longer rely on Donald Trump's America: 'We Europeans must take our destiny into our own hands'


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7760486.html

    Merkel may be using Trump as an excuse to free her shackles from America (I mean, Germany lost to America. It still very much has the aftereffects of that loss)... Finally, Europe may free itself from the long-lasting American influence that was overdue.

    Snowden says: This is an era-defining moment.

    https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/868846494509658112

    Maybe.

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    I agree that Merkel is using Trump as an excuse for her own political agenda because she knows that the office of the president is not that powerful without the full backing of congress. Germany is trying to hold onto its control of the EU and is pandering to the growing separatist element. It's unfortunate that the world seems to be going through this protectionist (we're-better-without-you) phase. It's also unfortunate that Trump has no political acumen whatsoever and brings his 'me first' persona to the world stage, which fuels the separatist fires. And Britain, with it's own version of political ineptness, certainly didn't help......

    a.k.a. I/O

  3. #203
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    Succinct summary of what is going wrong with the US:


  4. #204
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    I don't think he's wrong but I do think its somewhat unsophisticated because it seems like its rooted in this attempt to look at things only across one level of anaylsis which in this case is the outsider/insider dichotomy

    however it essentially says that people because of the disparity in relative prosperity would take a chance on a guy that was representing the group that is all for widening that gap, which is absolutely counter productive unless you admit that outsider/insider type stuff is the most important thing outweighing the initial concern for wealth, or vice versa. or it implicates the stupidity of the electorate in not being able to see things for what they are and essentially voting against their own interest, which its that base stupidity that seems to be just as big if not bigger a factor

    my only point with any of this is carter is a populist flag bearer in a lot of ways but his analysis is merely more sloganeering in some ways

    i think people like carter like to push their one nugget of truth and are somewhat idealogical in that way. true it is a major factor and he's not wrong about that, but things are a much more complex confluence of events and the problem with looking at things through one issue is it easily gets distorted and manipulated, which I believe is actually the root cause of things going the way they are (i.e.: authoritarianism, trump, discontent). in other words, it was people buying into "single ticket" anaylsis that lead to this, which carter is actually just promoting which practically makes him as responsible for trump as the DNC and any other number of "culprits"

    in other words being so uni dimensional in general leaves people open to manipulation which trump so masterfully proved, and I think carter means well but hes a dinosaur in the sense that he plays right into it in the same way the establishment does, from the other end

    in the end I just cant wait for carter, the clintons, the bushes, trump, et all to go away because theyre all just the last gasp of the 60s and those ways of thinking are just outmoded as far as I can tell if we want to move forward. not that there isnt nuggets of wisdom in there, but its been played out. carter is beating the same drum he always has and it really got him nowhere, which sucks, because hes a good guy, and Id rather he were in charge than trump, but he's not exactly moving things forward anymore with his ideas

  5. #205
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    regardless of sociotype, Donald Trump is a fucking tool. I seriously cannot stand that guy and I'm not ashamed to admit I hope he suffers a massive cardiac arrest and dies. there is a sickness in your society and the symptom is the mega-twat sitting in sleeping in your whitehouse.

  6. #206
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    how much do you need to know about politics before you can responsibly say donald trump as president is a bad idea?

    i feel like the threshold is low ("grab them by the pussy" + nuclear launch codes, pretty much does it)

    then again, maybe all this 4d chess is just beyond me

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    And I feel like that is not much more than an emotional attitude and a neurotic herd mentality used as a substitution for thought... I rarely, if ever, see that attitude backed up by substantive points beyond typical media propaganda and more clueless hysteria.. It really is an emotional attitude more than anything. I just don't see how you can be taken seriously. by any thoughtful person.

  8. #208
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    i feel like your reaction is an emotional reaction

    here's some logic:

    its literally the highest position in the american hierarchy, if it is at all possible to get a better blend of logic and ethics then if any position on earth should require it president of the united states is that position. hence even an emotional reaction can disqualify a candidate as a matter of logic

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    An emotional reaction by itself is not sufficient justification for anything, there must be coherent thoughts underlying the attitude. Without any rationale supporting the attitude it just isn't justified.
    If an ethical attitude is valid than it can be broken down and rationalized over - hence the call for further intelligent commentary, which is just not there.


    My statement is an emotional rationalization responding to an emotional reaction. You're the person attempting to pass this off as intelligent political discourse.
    My point is simply that you need to have clear, well formed thoughts... people who engage in this nonsense do not have those.

  10. #210
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    My point is simply that you need to have clear, well formed thoughts, and the people who engage in this nonsense do not have those.
    i always think its odd how people say stuff like this then embody the opposite.. why should anyone address these words when you don't seem to believe in them? its like you only make the case that you have nothing coherent to address which that is the only thing I can find to address of substance... beyond that, the natural conclusion is to ignore you which is I'm sure what many people you've encountered likewise conclude

    this is just some free advice that has more to do with life in general than trump

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    Bertrand, there is a very clear difference between an ethical assertion and rationalizing over that assertion, which is what I am doing. I have not made a positive ethical assertion about politics. I am criticizing your ethical assertions on the grounds that they lack any rationale behind them, and demanding that you provide that rationale. (And I don't believe you are capable of providing the rationale... this is all you anti trumpers ever seem to do). Understand? It's very simple. This paradox you've imagined only exists within the bowl of soup which is your brain. There is no paradox.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat1776 View Post
    Look at this fag say nothing about politics because he knows nothing so all he does is mouth off.

    Merkel is just attempting to prop up the EU, she's Germanys version of Hillary Clinton... she's a puppet. She's already destroying Germany with her border policies ... She couldn't be much more overrated, the media just coddles her because she serves their purposes... Not worth paying any special attention to, totally incompetent and overrated.
    I'm not concerned with politics in this instance. I don't like the guy personally. It would seem, judging by your rude reaction towards me, that you are one of his fanboys. Bud, not all duals are good people, you don't have to like Trump to still be his dual. It is somewhat sad IEI around here think SLE behave like Trump as a normal standard.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedrat1776 View Post
    An emotional reaction by itself is not sufficient justification for anything, there must be coherent thoughts underlying the attitude. Without any rationale supporting the attitude it just isn't justified.
    If an ethical attitude is valid than it can be broken down and rationalized over - hence the call for further intelligent commentary, which is just not there.


    My statement is an emotional rationalization responding to an emotional reaction. You're the person attempting to pass this off as intelligent political discourse.
    My point is simply that you need to have clear, well formed thoughts... people who engage in this nonsense do not have those.
    Awe, so in a way you are telling me that you are reacting to my sentiments as though you are reacting to the sentiments of many in the news and media, as though they are one the same. You see someone who might share the views of people online and on TV and you conclude they come from the same standpoint. I'm assuring you I am a rational person who can come to conclusions on my own far removed from "herd" hysteria.

    Trump is a tool, and this goes far past the surface ethical debates over comments like grab -em by the pussy. It's about his Machiavellian disdain for anything outside of making money. It's not hard to see a pampered play-boy with malignant narcissism who seems to hold contempt for anyone who disagrees and is spell bound on disrupting the efforts of many trying to improve your society. For instance toppling your socialized medical care. Further, the blatant hypocrisy in just about everything he says and does, for instance the endless stream of lies and bullshit, just rubs me the wrong way. There isn't much to envy, nor admire, in a man such as this.

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    None of that is rooted in anything practical and relevant... you haven't pointed to a particular lie. You haven't pointed to a particular medical policy. You haven't pointed to a particular instance of his sabotaging well intended people. All of these things determine whether your bias is justified or unjustified. Without those critical elements you are literally saying nothing and cannot be taken seriously.
    All you have put fourth are vague ethical platitudes hidden from direct analysis. I care about what he is doing with the country, the ideas behind the policies and what's actually happening. Real things, specific things. I don't care about your vague moral outrage that cannot be clarified and found to be relevant, it's useless. That's my point. Next.
    Last edited by rat200Turbo; 07-09-2017 at 07:09 AM.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singu View Post
    O burn...:

    Angela Merkel says Germany can no longer rely on Donald Trump's America: 'We Europeans must take our destiny into our own hands'


    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7760486.html

    Merkel may be using Trump as an excuse to free her shackles from America (I mean, Germany lost to America. It still very much has the aftereffects of that loss)... Finally, Europe may free itself from the long-lasting American influence that was overdue.

    Snowden says: This is an era-defining moment.

    https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/868846494509658112

    Maybe.
    That's a bunch of hot air.




  16. #216
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    http://www.newsweek.com/2017/08/11/d...on-643996.html

    Lazy couch potato who spends his time watching TV (up to 5 hours/day) and golfing.

    How do people see extroverted sensing in him? The extroverted sensors I know don't sit still...
    "The obstacle is the path."

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    http://www.newsweek.com/2017/08/11/d...on-643996.html

    Lazy couch potato who spends his time watching TV (up to 5 hours/day) and golfing.

    How do people see extroverted sensing in him? The extroverted sensors I know don't sit still...
    Lazy couch potato? Dude, the White House is a mess firstly because Congress refuses to implement the Trump agenda, and secondly because of career bureaucrats leaking classified information to the media. Many far younger men would break under the amount of pressure the president has to face every day. Some policy differences aside, I have a lot of respect for his strength.

    The real problem in America is victim culture. Many people on the left are behaving like entitled crybabies - they won't accept that they lost the election fair and square, because that would mean admitting their values resonate in few places outside the coastal cities. Look at this map: http://static.snopes.com/app/uploads...on-841x452.jpg
    Last edited by Cuivienen; 08-09-2017 at 10:56 PM.

  18. #218
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    Time for an update:


  19. #219
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    smellyanne

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    Trump White House Weighing Plans for Private Spies to Counter “Deep State” Enemies

    nice to see something from the beta playbook getting some traction, which is setting up a secret police in order to enforce ideological loyalty

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    Because they are either misinformed, underinformed, complacent, or racist misogynist bigots.
    Actually true. Except, I don't know how to tell them right. Some people are just blissfully unaware of how stupid they really are.
    If I stop responding or posting, I've probably taken a break from posting stuff. This really taxes me for whatever reason. Said break could last anywhere from a month to a year. I will likely be back, as socionics is one of my interests. If I'm not on here, you can contact me on steam.

    I got a new computer, so I'll not type on mobile as much any more.

  22. #222
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    Threatening not only the basics of American liberal democracy, but also the stability of the entire existing world order, the impetuous Trump march casts doubt on the effectiveness of the system of hardware and political filters that existed in the US, which previously did not allow aggressive psychopathic destroyers to advance so successfully to supreme power in the world's largest economic and nuclear power.
    Talanov on Trump

  23. #223
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    Notably, it seems that Trump's America harbors a disorienting level of political fragmentation and fracturing. Decades ago, conservatives would foam at the mouth if the intelligence community suspected Russian political interference, but now many have essentially turned a blind eye to the risks imposed by Russia's posture on the geopolitical map. Furthermore, it wasn't that long ago that conservatives valued wholesomeness enough to reject candidates that defied family values, but in 2016 they nominated Trump, who represented an antithesis to family values. The Trump Administration also adopted Bannon as a chief strategist; Bannon seriously considered a leftist economic agenda in spite of what McConnell wanted. We also have people on the right calling for free speech despite the fact that 10 years ago the shoe was on the other foot. On the other side of the political spectrum, many democrats practically echo the sentiments of conservatives during the McCarthy era, which, among conservatives, dovetails with a general fear of outsiders.* You also see people on the hard, authoritarian left trying to shut down open dialogue on college campuses. Meanwhile, in the aftermath of the Harvey Weinstein scandal, liberals and conservatives alike are getting lynched in the court of public opinion. The recent #MeToo revelations hold significance because they demonstrate how the feminist movement is cannibalizing portions of liberal culture by focusing on Hollywood, a target of many conservatives' ire.

    *This isn't to say that the concern is wholly unwarranted regarding Russia. I'm mentioning it because it seems like one of those instances in which actors on opposing sides of the isle have swapped places in some respect.

    Generally, the aforementioned dynamics don't come as that much of a surprise when broader considerations are factored in. Free speech and censorship don't serve as tools for the left and right so much as they serve libertarianism and authoritarianism respectively. Moreover, it seems that political movements start to contradict their own principles when survival or expedience feels necessary. Political movements also have a habit of borrowing from the playbooks of their opponents. Additionally, reflection and house cleaning naturally follows any ideology's failure to meet its objectives.

    It's going to be interesting to see where the chips fall in the long run.

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