This had better be worth my time: TheHotelAmbush questionnaire as answered by Chips and Underwear

[Myst]

I can see your reasoning here. However, I could also argue that this is a consequence of strong Ti. I wanted a clear rule structure to have originally been in place so avoid this unpleasant surprise. A clear warning system for reprimanding employees, and some documentation and justification. To me it felt like the manager was just going from her own feelings and not logically substantiated enough.

I don't think my yelling back at them necessarily implies that I can't have Se PoLR. I think my Se is likely 1-D because I never feel sure what the norms are regarding this aspect. I feel I have only experience to go off of. Also yelling back, could be an Fe reaction, also 1-D if I am an LII and probably not the most appropriate reaction for this situation.

I think your reasoning there about relying on Ti makes sense.

Well it wasn't just one particular instance but a buildup over time. Moments where customers were acting rude, unruly, and uncooperative and I didn't deal with them in the most constructive manner. I think the last straw might have been when I yelled back at a rude customer and told him to "shut up!" right in front of his face. A couple of times I had a talk with a manager about these interactions, how to improve them. But nothing was ever documented (or if it was, I didn't see it and didn't get a copy). There was nothing in the line of warnings- "if you do this again, you will not be allowed to work here anymore." In fact maybe the manager was a bit too reassuring at the time- she even told me she's snapped back a few times. So maybe I didn't think it was *that* serious, more like, just do it differently the next time. But this also wasn't the exact same manager as the one that told me I couldn't work there anymore. So you also have to factor in communication between people.

I mean going back to analyze the situation, common sense tells me that how I reacted towards the customers was not acceptable- you don't tell someone to "shut up." But still I felt it was unfair to just be booted out like that without warning. They could have had me go to customer service training, had me write up a specific plan to work on this particular weakness, etc. But they didn't.

Yeah I can see how you felt that was unfair due to lack of a clear and fair system being in place.

Yep the shut up thingy is pretty unprofessional tbh. The last couple lines, in an ideal world maybe it would always be a realistic expectation, but I dunno what the exact circumstances were in your case so I can't say if it was intentionally unfair or the costs/time spent on this just could not be justified etc.

Yes, Hacim is mega LII. His Fi answers don't seem as confident or as fleshed out as mine. It doesn't mean I can't be an LII though, but it could be attributed to subtype differences, enneagram differences, or other factors. For example, he mentions that he is not as sure how he demonstrates his kindness and consideration whereas I would be able to give a more clear cut answer. Also he says he "guesses" that the society would be better if people were less selfish and inconsiderate whereas I would be more definitive in that response. *I know for sure* that society would be a better place. So those are a couple of differences.

Don't forget you're a girl and he's not - this culture usually helps women to be a bit more in touch with feelings.

[ghost of forum past]

@chips and underwear After some vacillation, I think you are LII-Ne. This subtype, the "producing" subtype, places more emphasis on the intuitive and ethical functions, which I would think could cause others (and perhaps yourself) to observe more NF-ish tendencies in you. Regardless, you are a high quality person.

[The Exception]

E9, logical, very Ne/Si, could be either SLI or LII (you seem more the former in these videos imo).

Why more SLI than LII? I'm just curious.

You are so cute, chips and underwear. I honestly adore you

Could be. SLI's and LII's can seem similar on first sight and women of both types are quite rare. Chips seems irrational to me - kinda grounded, solid voice and reminds me more of a SLI woman I know than any LII's I've encountered. She seems Si > Ti (Hacim is different, obvious Ti dom, much more "wired" and alert). I could easily see her as my conflictor (that's not meant as an offence in any way, just as in a totally opposite person of me ). BUT, she could be a strange E9 LII (haven't met anyone of that combination yet).

How do I seem more Si than Ti to you? Again just curious. SLI is actually not a bad guess and it is a type I have considered. The Fe PoLR I sometimes wonder if I have. I know that overly dramatic emotions can set me off, I prefer more calm, even emotionality. On the other hand I do relate to Fe suggestive because I do like uplifting, positive emotionality. I guess its just the strong, negative emotions and/or overly dramatic emotional displays I dislike.

Sometimes I also wonder if I am not Ne seeking. Sometimes I need assistance in seeing possibilities and alternatives. Especially when I'm trapped in a problem and see no easy way out. On the other hand, I feel like my Ne is greater than 1-D. I can read something and interpret it many different ways for example or come up with alternative uses for objects. It depends on the situation exactly.

I am not offended if you think I'm your conflictor. Perhaps that's another argument in favor of SLI. Some EIEs (not you, but others) I have difficulty with. It could be their over dramatic emotions. Then mixing Fe with Se mobilizing, they want to cause drama, shake things up, maybe even stir up a little controversy when I just want things more calm and relaxed. Se mobilizing can cause them to come across as tougher and more intimidating than they really are. I have mistaken EIE for SLE or SEE more than once. Then sometimes if they don't like something or someone, they will show just how much hate they have and they don't hesitate to show it, not caring about how how offensive or how uncomfortable it might make other people. Again this isn't all EIEs, just some of them. But it does seem like I notice these tendencies in EIEs compared more to other types.


I know a couple of E9 LIIs. They are people that want things comfortable and pleasant without conflict. But they are also very logical and analytical. More LIIs are 5s or 1s it seems. The type 9 LIIs I know, don't need to argue every little tiny logical point. They are more relaxed in that sense. More big picture global focus it seems. Also a little more in tune with their bodies and the so-called Si type matters- 9 is a gut type after all.

I actually know two girls who are like this - E9ish and have a soft kinda grounded-ish quality about them. They both were with 4D Fe types (husband / boyfriend) with pretty intense breakups eventually. I type both of them LII because they do have better Ne than me (definitely a lot more focus on it) and the things they talk of are far less grounded than I expect from SLIs. I considered SLI for both of them for a short time, too but again, the strong seeming Ne, along with the very weak Se and the sensible Ti (never annoying to me like Ti demonstrative can be sometimes) are strong arguments for LII. The exact same for @chips and underwear

Why do you find Ti demonstrative annoying? How do you perceive it as different from Ti base? Besides the valued vs. unvalued aspect.

[The Exception]

@chips and underwear After some vacillation, I think you are LII-Ne. This subtype, the "producing" subtype, places more emphasis on the intuitive and ethical functions, which I would think could cause others (and perhaps yourself) to observe more NF-ish tendencies in you. Regardless, you are a high quality person.

High quality person. Well I am flattered.

How do you measure the quality of a human being?

Yes, I think, I look a lot like a humanitarian NF due to subtype.

[Myst]

Why do you find Ti demonstrative annoying? How do you perceive it as different from Ti base? Besides the valued vs. unvalued aspect.

Inconsistency. It's not constantly annoying but it happens. Never with Ti bases.

[The Exception]

Inconsistency. It's not constantly annoying but it happens. Never with Ti bases.

But wouldn't strong Ti bring consistency even if it was in the demonstrative position? I suppose the difference might be how much each type values consistency. The Ti base is highly consistent and strongly values. The Ti demonstrative, I suppose, would find it easy to be consistent but doesn't place so much value on it?

[Myst]

But wouldn't strong Ti bring consistency even if it was in the demonstrative position? I suppose the difference might be how much each type values consistency. The Ti base is highly consistent and strongly values. The Ti demonstrative, I suppose, would find it easy to be consistent but doesn't place so much value on it?

Demonstrative is not maintained consistently.

[Myst]

The Fe PoLR I sometimes wonder if I have. I know that overly dramatic emotions can set me off, I prefer more calm, even emotionality. On the other hand I do relate to Fe suggestive because I do like uplifting, positive emotionality. I guess its just the strong, negative emotions and/or overly dramatic emotional displays I dislike.

Alpha Fe vs Beta Fe. Nothing special here.

[The Exception]

Demonstrative is not maintained consistently.

Maybe you have a different understanding of the demonstrative than I do. I thought is was always turned on, doing its thing in the background.

Alpha Fe vs Beta Fe. Nothing special here.

Yeah, it's probably just that.

[Myst]

Maybe you have a different understanding of the demonstrative than I do. I thought is was always turned on, doing its thing in the background.

In private. In public it's not consistently used or displayed. Compared to Base function, which is consistently on in public too.

[Chakram]

I think you are a Delta NF, and agree with most of what Muddytextures said. You seem to dislike and be confrontational with Beta STs especially. You seem moderately categorical and so I would be more inclined to say that you are EII over IEE however.

[squark]

You seem to dislike and be confrontational with Beta STs especially.

What? Where? She is? I've never seen this. I've never seen her be confrontational with anyone.

[Chakram]

What? Where? She is? I've never seen this. I've never seen her be confrontational with anyone.

Reading through the questionnaire portion, the people she seems to come into conflict with, seem like they tend to be beta ST, or have that sort of demeanor.

[Myst]

I think you are a Delta NF, and agree with most of what Muddytextures said. You seem to dislike and be confrontational with Beta STs especially. You seem moderately categorical and so I would be more inclined to say that you are EII over IEE however.

As beta ST, I don't experience OP as confrontational, don't feel disliked by her, either.

Reading through the questionnaire portion, the people she seems to come into conflict with, seem like they tend to be beta ST, or have that sort of demeanor.

Nah. Drop the stupid stereotypes.

[Chakram]

As beta ST, I don't experience OP as confrontational, don't feel disliked by her, either.

She also does not seem like a very confrontational person to begin with.

Nah. Drop the stupid stereotypes.

When she described the people that generally aggravate her, they sound like what I would associate to be Beta ST. I'm not stereotyping, nor did I say they definitely are that. I said "seem like" and "tend to," socionics is a system of stereotypes anyways.

[Myst]

She also does not seem like a very confrontational person to begin with.

I was responding to the post where you earlier said that she seems confrontational with beta STs.

When she described the people that generally aggravate her, they sound like what I would associate to be Beta ST. I'm not stereotyping, nor did I say they definitely are that. I said "seem like" and "tend to," socionics is a system of stereotypes anyways.

I'm not convinced Trump is even a Logical type... sorry.

The other two things she mentions:

*People who are very materialistic and just want to live in the present and don’t think much about the future or the consequences of their actions.
*Rebel without a cause, bad boy/bad girl types. I think most laws are there for a good reason but occasionally authority should be challenged. What I dislike is people that don’t have any respect for laws whatsoever and just want to stir up trouble and cause a ruckus.

None of this is specific to beta ST, can fit SEE just fine as much as SLE, let alone LSI.

All in all, I'm not seeing anything about Fi superego criticism here really. Mainly Se as base function is criticized and lack of Ti as well (yah bad stereotypes, again).

[Chakram]

I was responding to the post where you earlier said that she seems confrontational with beta STs.




I'm not convinced Trump is even a Logical type... sorry.

The other two things she mentions:

*People who are very materialistic and just want to live in the present and don’t think much about the future or the consequences of their actions.
*Rebel without a cause, bad boy/bad girl types. I think most laws are there for a good reason but occasionally authority should be challenged. What I dislike is people that don’t have any respect for laws whatsoever and just want to stir up trouble and cause a ruckus.

None of this is specific to beta ST, can fit SEE just fine as much as SLE, let alone LSI.

All in all, I'm not seeing anything about Fi superego criticism here really. Mainly Se as base function is criticized and lack of Ti as well (yah bad stereotypes, again).

I don't think Trump is a logical type either, he is probably a SEE.

While I do agree that a lot of the things are more just Se base, things like this

"There have been occasional conflicts with people in an online group when they say something I perceive as a bit too rude and harsh. I call them out on it, remind them they should be more tactful. The other person then gets upset at me because s/he thinks I’m being overly controlling of how they behave and what they say. The other person thinks s/he can say what they want regardless of how others might feel. I am fine with differences of opinion, just try to be more tactful about it."

make me lean towards her having stronger Fi, and lesser Ti, even though she does seem very logically oriented at times.

[Myst]

I don't think Trump is a logical type either, he is probably a SEE.

Well OP mentions Trump here: "*Brutal honesty where you just care about speaking the truth and not if you are offending someone. Think Donald Trump."

While I do agree that a lot of the things are more just Se base, things like this

"There have been occasional conflicts with people in an online group when they say something I perceive as a bit too rude and harsh. I call them out on it, remind them they should be more tactful. The other person then gets upset at me because s/he thinks I’m being overly controlling of how they behave and what they say. The other person thinks s/he can say what they want regardless of how others might feel. I am fine with differences of opinion, just try to be more tactful about it."

make me lean towards her having stronger Fi, and lesser Ti, even though she does seem very logically oriented at times.

Nothing in that is Fi valuing specifically. It can be Fe or Fi, it's not clear from this much.

I think you have a bias since you skipped over the Ti based criticisms of her, for example in my previous post.


We agree on her seeming very logically oriented but we do not agree on it being only "at times". That's basically why I type her LII over EII overall.

[Chakram]

Well OP mentions Trump here: "*Brutal honesty where you just care about speaking the truth and not if you are offending someone. Think Donald Trump."




Nothing in that is Fi valuing specifically. It can be Fe or Fi, it's not clear from this much.

I think you have a bias since you skipped over the Ti based criticisms of her, for example in my previous post.


We agree on her seeming very logically oriented but we do not agree on it being only "at times". That's basically why I type her LII over EII overall.

And nothing that you pointed out pointed specifically to Ti. Most people have some respect for laws, or at least abide by them for the most part.

The thing you seem to not realize with her mentioning Trump being someone that she does not like, other than the obvious fact that she said because he tries to tell the truth, putting that above people's feelings, is that she has also mentioned that she tends to be liberal. People generally dislike the person who is running against their preferred party. This is a fact. There is almost a constant hate between the two sides. Why? Because people disagree, and this dislike for Trump by the op almost certainly stems from this fact.

Also, I find it strange that you believe LIIs tend to go out of there way to call people out for being too harsh or rude. That sounds much more like an EII quality to me.

[Myst]

And nothing that you pointed out pointed specifically to Ti. Most people have some respect for laws, or at least abide by them for the most part.

The point is, it was a Logic based argument from her part, not Ethics based. You did not take this into account when trying to type OP as EII. Hence me saying there is a bias.

The thing you seem to not realize with her mentioning Trump being someone that she does not like, other than the obvious fact that she said because he tries to tell the truth, putting that above people's feelings, is that she has also mentioned that she tends to be liberal. People generally dislike the person who is running against their preferred party. This is a fact. There is almost a constant hate between the two sides. Why? Because people disagree, and this dislike for Trump by the op almost certainly stems from this fact.

I wouldn't want to guess about her motives for her not liking Trump. So let's leave this speculation at that.

Also, I find it strange that you believe LIIs tend to go out of there way to call people out for being too harsh or rude. That sounds much more like an EII quality to me.

I do not type people by "qualities". That leads the wrong way. Type is about way of thinking (information processing), not personal qualities.

One more correction - I never claimed LIIs "tend to" do this. Otoh no, I do not claim that LIIs are incapable of doing so, either - do you claim that?

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

The criticisms ppl say about you are also strengths to me. Ppl said the same things to me before, and although I have the beta edginess you don't to fight some of it off - things like sensitivity and compassion/softness is sorely lacking in this world. To be thought of as insecure or weak also because of it is just the price we have to pay. /rubs you.

I also wanna take a huge brick against the skull at anybody that messes with ur feminine vulnerability and wide-eyed innocense cuz I know evil and I know how much the bad guys get a kick out of trying to fuck with you and using you. /alpha males.

now that the mushy stuff is out of the way- I gotta say could you please consider using your old screen name? I just felt it was more 'you' or something- and with your new screen name I get you confused with that Ryene woman or something, who is actually quite different than you in personality (but some reason with that screen name I think you are her all the time and it's annoying lol.) You can be whatever name you want I know but i just felt 'LIIlibriaran' was so you, why did you change it?

[Persephone]

Because chips and underwear is supposed to be sooooo Ne

[The Exception]

I wouldn't want to guess about her motives for her not liking Trump. So let's leave this speculation at that.

I do not type people by "qualities". That leads the wrong way. Type is about way of thinking (information processing), not personal qualities.

One more correction - I never claimed LIIs "tend to" do this. Otoh no, I do not claim that LIIs are incapable of doing so, either - do you claim that?

The reason for my disliking Trump has to do with how I perceive his character. I don't dislike someone as a person because I don't agree with their political platform. For Trump, I dislike him as a person because his deameanor is very bullying, prejudiced against many different groups of people- anti-women, anti-muslim, anti-immigrant, etc. Says mean things and doesn't care about how that impacts other peoples' feelings because the truth must be told regardless. He seems very dishonest and insincere, saying one thing and doing another, just to get elected. Most politicians do this to some extent but with Trump it was so blatantly obvious.

Just my opinion - EII seeking Te.

But I want to be your dual!

I gotta say could you please consider using your old screen name? I just felt it was more 'you' or something- and with your new screen name I get you confused with that Ryene woman or something, who is actually quite different than you in personality (but some reason with that screen name I think you are her all the time and it's annoying lol.) You can be whatever name you want I know but i just felt 'LIIlibriaran' was so you, why did you change it?

I changed my screen name over when I realized that I might not actually be an LII. I could just go with Librarian but that sounds more boring.

Because chips and underwear is supposed to be sooooo Ne

It's the random juxtaposition of completely unrelated words. I don't know why but its funny to me.

Okay here's the story of how I came up with my username for those who haven't heard it:

I was at a potluck dinner and someone brought her 4 year old daughter and she just kept saying 'chips and underwear' over and over again. I don't know why, but we kept laughing. I guess it was a 'you had to be there moment.'

[Muddy]

I revert my previous argument for chips being IEE, and agree more with LII now after reading more about LIIs and their emphasis on fairness. Everything in this article sounded exactly like chips.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya

[The Exception]

I revert my previous argument for chips being IEE, and agree more with LII now after reading more about LIIs and their emphasis on fairness. Everything in this article sounded exactly like chips.

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya

That article is so true of me, it's scary.

[Jake]

Kind of leaning IEE. Delta NF seems appropriate. Has anyone from WSS typed you?

[The Exception]

Kind of leaning IEE. Delta NF seems appropriate. Has anyone from WSS typed you?

Just out of curiosity, why IEE? I can understand where people might be seeing Ne and Fi but IEE has Ti PoLR and I don't see that as being my vulnerable function. I have seriously considered EII as a possible typing for myself though.

I have officially been typed by Jack on WSS. He typed me as an LII.

The majority of the others on WSS have typed me as LII but this is by no means unanimous. There have also been a few typings of EII and SEI.

I also submitted my questionnaire (the original 80-item questionnaire, not this new one) to a couple people active in the School of System Socionics and I was typed as ESI and they were quite confident in that conclusion. Particularly the part about being Fi lead.

I did consider ESI for a brief time but then realized I identified more with alpha/delta quadras than gamma and couldn't see Se as my creative or Ne as my PoLR.

[Jake]

Just out of curiosity, why IEE? I can understand where people might be seeing Ne and Fi but IEE has Ti PoLR and I don't see that as being my vulnerable function. I have seriously considered EII as a possible typing for myself though.

I have officially been typed by Jack on WSS. He typed me as an LII.

The majority of the others on WSS have typed me as LII but this is by no means unanimous. There have also been a few typings of EII and SEI.

I also submitted my questionnaire (the original 80-item questionnaire, not this new one) to a couple people active in the School of System Socionics and I was typed as ESI and they were quite confident in that conclusion. Particularly the part about being Fi lead.

I did consider ESI for a brief time but then realized I identified more with alpha/delta quadras than gamma and couldn't see Se as my creative or Ne as my PoLR.

Yeah Ne is definitely there, I can see how Jack typed you as LII though. Your comment in the other thread about my "pizza is not breakfast" comment was especially Ti and the questioning social norms (free thinker mentality). IEE was my take but I have faith in Jack's understanding.

[The Exception]

Yeah Ne is definitely there, I can see how Jack typed you as LII though. Your comment in the other thread about my "pizza is not breakfast" comment was especially Ti and the questioning social norms (free thinker mentality). IEE was my take but I have faith in Jack's understanding.

Here is my typing video from Jack if you are interested.

Jack is not always correct in his typings but he is correct more often than not.

[Jake]

Here is my typing video from Jack if you are interested.

Jack is not always correct in his typings but he is correct more often than not.

yeah LII seems like a good fit from your interview. Jack does a great job at both steering the conversation in the way that it gets to the truth, without skewing anything in his favor

[nickelslick]

LII.

[Myst]

The reason for my disliking Trump has to do with how I perceive his character. I don't dislike someone as a person because I don't agree with their political platform. For Trump, I dislike him as a person because his deameanor is very bullying, prejudiced against many different groups of people- anti-women, anti-muslim, anti-immigrant, etc. Says mean things and doesn't care about how that impacts other peoples' feelings because the truth must be told regardless. He seems very dishonest and insincere, saying one thing and doing another, just to get elected. Most politicians do this to some extent but with Trump it was so blatantly obvious.

Your EII subtype came out a bit (Don't get me wrong, I see nothing here that can't be 2D Fi)

[Simo]

I even made videos!

the strange thing is I didn't see @Sol make any comment even though he loves VI , actually I didn't see him at all since I came back, is he dead?

Warning, it's long! There are lots of questions and I wanted to answer thoroughly. I split it up into 4 parts.

yeah it is so long, I just saw the first video and I think you show more Fi than Ti, but while scan the thread I saw @Myst saying you're LII so I guess I should watch the whole thing before making a decision
unfortunately it is bed time, and knowing my lazy nature I may not be back within a week

[The Exception]

the strange thing is I didn't see @Sol make any comment even though he loves VI , actually I didn't see him at all since I came back, is he dead?

[Myst]

@Sol left after he had some issue with Maritsa or whoever it was.

[Simo]

I am still not convinced that you are Ti-base, but I can see the point that your ethical flavor is enneagram related, I think you are E9 so-first but I am not very social so I don't know how would LII E9 so-first look like in reality

However since I am skeptical by nature, reading the below statement makes me ask what if you were answering the questionnaire that way to make it look like you are Ti-base but you are actually not which causes confusion
I am not trying to say that you are lying or anything like that, but what if you really believe you're LII but actually you're not, so unconsciously you're trying to act like it

Interesting. I thought the themes of fairness, consistency throughout my questionnaire were more related to base Ti.

[Myst]

Or just ESE mom is the explanation for having decent awareness for some Ethics stuff.

[The Exception]

Or just ESE mom is the explanation for having decent awareness for some Ethics stuff.

Everyone's mom is ESE.

[Simo]

Or just ESE mom is the explanation for having decent awareness for some Ethics stuff.

could be

It feels like you are really tired of explaining LII can be decent with ethics stuff, so relax & don't push yourself too much

[Myst]

Everyone's mom is ESE.

Definitely not mine. I don't know where this idea comes from.

could be

It feels like you are really tired of explaining LII can be decent with ethics stuff, so relax & don't push yourself too much

Well lol tired of stereotype crap for sure. Don't worry about me tho'