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Thread: Delta & The Middle Ages

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    Default Delta & The Middle Ages

    Hi there everyone.

    Has anyone noticed a connection where Delta quadra members are often more interested than average in the Middle Ages/Medieval period? I have two instructors at uni this semester whose interests tend to lie in that era of time, or slightly thereafter. Does being a member of the Delta quadra have anything to do with it? I myself find that I am often curious about this period in history. I'm not sure what there is about it that makes me interested. It appears to be just some unconscious draw. I think what I might like is the ambiguity one has to deal with as well as the constant sense of quiet enigma whenever one approaches the Middle Ages. Maybe that's a thing for Delta?

    Perhaps there's also an unconscious association that Deltas might feel to the way of life during that time. It was rather simple for many people and centered around stability and predictability. People often seemed to have a much more localized or feudal mindset that I think works well with the Delta quadra. (As an opposite example, Beta seems to be more associated with a very expansive perception of the world that often engenders a somewhat imperial mindset.)

    Just thoughts. Discuss?

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    not particularly tbh
    i've noticed alphas kind of like their fantasy or medieval period stuffs

    I think there is a perhaps a sense of 'being of a different era' with deltas ; and a desire for cultural refinement and movement away from the crassness or waves of societal conflict - yeah
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    Interesting thought, Aramas. There might be something to that. While Alphas are also interested in medieval things, they seem to take more interest in sci-fi than Deltas usually do.
    I wouldn't say it's a clear trait, but it seems to be a trend.

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    I thought medieval stuff would just be sort of NF in general more than belonging to a specific quadra. I mean, the idea of everything being ruled by goodness and morality through God (F) over pure logical necessity (T) and the spiritual world (N) being dominant over the physical (S) just seems really NF-y. There is also a tendency for the STs to like the fighting themes associated with the middle ages in a way that NTs and SFs don't seem to go for as much. So aristocratic time period is aristocratic, who woulda thunk...
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    Interest in history is usually linked to ego.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Interest in history is usually linked to ego.
    Isn't Ni more about the future, and Si more about the past? I would expect SLIs to be good historians.
    Last edited by Aramas; 11-14-2016 at 02:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Isn't Ni more about the future, and Si more about the past? I would expect SLIs to be good historians.
    No, that sounds like an MBTI concept. Time is generally intuition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    No, that sounds like an MBTI concept. Time is generally intuition.
    I will admit, I have been exposed to such things. That's interesting, however.
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    There is nothing Ni about history. Incidentally, the Deltas who came to mind when I made me previous post were all ST.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Director Abbie View Post
    There is nothing Ni about history. Incidentally, the Deltas who came to mind when I made me previous post were all ST.
    *retypes to LSE so I can write fantasy and alternate history stories instead of techno sci-fi*
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    Personally I find this to be a very consistent trend: Gamma NTs are interested in the factual aspects of past or hypothetical future eras (what happened when, trends etc.), Beta NFs are more interested in the aesthetics of past or hypothetical future eras, or the social currents underlying trends (think Marxism etc.). I haven't personally met any Delta STs that were into history. I guess it is possible for the Te aspect, but interest in things that are removed from the present time and place definitely comes from in this case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Personally I find this to be a very consistent trend: Gamma NTs are interested in the factual aspects of past or hypothetical future eras (what happened when, trends etc.), Beta NFs are more interested in the aesthetics of past or hypothetical future eras, or the social currents underlying trends (think Marxism etc.). I haven't personally met any Delta STs that were into history. I guess it is possible for the Te aspect, but interest in things that are removed from the present time and place definitely comes from in this case.
    My mom is a selftyped LSE e1 and a former history teacher, into all kinds of historical trends. Also she has become a certified therapist 10 years ego. Does this make her Ni or any NF at all? Well no.

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    I remember the dubious preface of some atlas of the Middle Ages I started reading said that this time period in Europe was defined by a collectivist spirit, where individual aspirations were futile and life was overall more localized. While I can't speak for the accuracy of this description, it seems to tenuously connect with descriptions of the Deltan social dynamic (at least according to Stratiyevskava's model).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alioth View Post
    I remember the dubious preface of some atlas of the Middle Ages I started reading said that this time period in Europe was defined by a collectivist spirit, where individual aspirations were futile and life was overall more localized. While I can't speak for the accuracy of this description, it seems to tenuously connect with descriptions of the Deltan social dynamic (at least according to Stratiyevskava's model).
    It's true. Technically speaking, the modern way in which we conceive of the individual wasn't formed until the Renaissance. So collectivism was the norm up to that point. The Classical world was also not really individuated in the same way we are today. So I don't know if that by itself would make me lean toward characterizing the Middle Ages as Delta. It's the localized aspect of daily life that makes me think of a relationship to Si. Se tends to want to spread itself out as much as possible, to take space for itself.
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    I am more interested in history than average, but I absolutely would not want to live in the past.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Personally I find this to be a very consistent trend: Gamma NTs are interested in the factual aspects of past or hypothetical future eras (what happened when, trends etc.), Beta NFs are more interested in the aesthetics of past or hypothetical future eras, or the social currents underlying trends (think Marxism etc.). I haven't personally met any Delta STs that were into history. I guess it is possible for the Te aspect, but interest in things that are removed from the present time and place definitely comes from in this case.
    My high-school US history teacher was an LSE. My current German professor is a medievalist. He's also an LSE. I think STs would be pretty good at history from the standpoint of being able to accumulate a lot of concrete knowledge bits about the past. Te is good with handling a lot of discrete facts, right? That's often what history is composed of. Sensory functions help a lot with maintaining a memory full of concrete details too. So the two should reinforce one another. I would expect an intuitive type to be able to come along and offer some new interpretation of history by connecting the data points in a new way or by doing something unexpected with them. So maybe that's where the NTs come in. Not that STs can't do that themselves. It's more that NTs might have a predispositional desire to think of new interpretations. If an ST had a feeling-oriented motive to look at the facts in a different perspective, that might make them produce a novel viewpoint.
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    I took an undergrad degree in History, though sadly it was not all it cracked up to be. It ruined it for me, I loved getting immersed in the stories history has to offer, how things have evolved and come to be, understanding the essence of man, time and the earth.... skim reading multiple paragraphs of articles to find the bias is not quite the same.

    There are things I do love about history, though i'm not sure it's particular to any one time set. In earnest I am probably more interested in the future.

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    Interesting - here's my take on it, apparently it's highly controversial because . So, the Middle Ages made me go smh in history class. What's up with ruthlessly controlling and exploiting people through an institution that perpetuates a nonexistent entity and a concept of purgatory as punishment (if this entity would love everyone he'd never throw anyone into it), and richer people who own poorer ones with agricultural property ("feudal" system). I disliked learning about it, it's basically a copy paste version of white capitalistic patriarchal structures, religious extremism, and slavery into the past :/ Just with less hygiene, more superstition, and different terms that conceal the truth For instance: knights - practically executors of organized murder and ideology, just more shiny, sophisticated, romanticised and privileged. Abbey = center of propaganda since monks were in charge of bible maintenance. And so on. In general, I critique that this view of history is highly eurocentric as well, I would've enjoyed learning what else was going on on the globe but I didn't even realize that back then. In a nutshell, the MA are not my cup of tea. And that being said I prefer Monty Python in knight clothing acting silly all day


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    Te ego in general seem in my experience to show a thorough interest in ethnography, particularly LSE in Delta, and maybe sometimes this is tied to a particular time period though more often free-floating time-wise. It doesn't have to be part of what they do for a living nor school, maybe a personal hobby, although sometimes it might lead to something bigger than that
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    I do think that feudalism, people having their proper "roles" is aristocratic Fi.

    Maybe Se/Ni would be more interested in "Age of Discovery", exploring uncharted territories, new discoveries, revolutionary changes etc. Ni imagines oneself living in either the future or the past, away from the present.

    Kind of like this:

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    And of himself, and those around
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    Oh, and I guess that I just don't know
    I like world history, but only some parts of it. I like Ancient Greek, Ancient Rome, some Ancient China, some Islam, Age of Discovery, Renaissance period, English revolution, French revolution, WW1 & WW2... the rest are pretty boring.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    I do think that feudalism, people having their proper "roles" is aristocratic Fi.

    Maybe Se/Ni would be more interested in "Age of Discovery", exploring uncharted territories, new discoveries, revolutionary changes etc.
    You seem to have gotten things backwards. The first one sounds like Ti(Se) while the second sounds like Ne. Ne is all about making new discoveries.

    Ni imagines oneself living in either the future or the past, away from the present.
    Indeed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    You seem to have gotten things backwards. The first one sounds like Ti(Se) while the second sounds like Ne. Ne is all about making new discoveries.
    No, I meant new discoveries as in discovering uncharted territories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    No, I meant new discoveries as in discovering uncharted territories.
    Yes that's still Ne.

    If it were about conquering said territories then it would be Se.

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    I had once jokingly said that ESXps must have evolved during hunter-gather times, ISXjs when farming started, ISXps when defensive communities started forming, and ESXjs when communities started feuding; and N-types snuck in when the coast was clear and started civilization........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I had once jokingly said that ESXps must have evolved during hunter-gather times, ISXjs when farming started, ISXps when defensive communities started forming, and ESXjs when communities started feuding; and N-types snuck in when the coast was clear and started civilization........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
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    Arrow Ancient times

    Well, I love Ancient Greece and Rome.
    Medieval times are kind of fun but pretty sad and tragic when it comes to the lifestyle of regular people there. Like the Black Death

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    World history has always fascinated me because large-scale social organization fascinates me (though only when treated mechanically and absent of culture). I'd say Gamma and Delta teachers were the best ones in this subject, they had the most passion for it and were willing to work the hardest to get all the details across to us, they were conservatively academic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SyrupDeGem View Post
    I took an undergrad degree in History, though sadly it was not all it cracked up to be. It ruined it for me, I loved getting immersed in the stories history has to offer, how things have evolved and come to be, understanding the essence of man, time and the earth.... skim reading multiple paragraphs of articles to find the bias is not quite the same.

    There are things I do love about history, though i'm not sure it's particular to any one time set. In earnest I am probably more interested in the future.
    A formal education tends to ruin most things. You are certainly more informed than you were before, but the joy, meaning, and motivation go out of it.
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    I have

    there's synesthic associations I have in mind like dreary landscapes and muted tones (earth tones, dull metallics, navy blues). there's something of a survivalist mentality; relying on one's own skills for survival, expertise in physical tasks like sewing, hunting, and cooking. lifestyle is modest and comfy, it's Amish almost. it exemplifies the minimization of discomfort characteristic of Delta; devaluation of the self for the greater good. it's a hands-on, work-centric, and family-oriented time period. I think there may even be a subconscious association with aristocracy. knights come to mind; honor and duty, something about steel in particular. archery. I think some of it might even be related to the not-so-recent popularization of Game of Thrones. how I perceive the Medieval time period is closely aligned with the Stark house, which is probably one of the best depictions of Delta values in media/literature.



    I think Alphas are interested in Medieval festivals and maybe Medieval-centric media and literature, but much less interested in the actual lifestyle
    Last edited by wasp; 10-29-2017 at 05:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    A formal education tends to ruin most things. You are certainly more informed than you were before, but the joy, meaning, and motivation go out of it.
    It's certainly an improvement if your default state is to never do anything unless someone makes you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel View Post
    It's certainly an improvement if your default state is to never do anything unless someone makes you.
    Citation: George Orwell, 1984
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    A formal education tends to ruin most things. You are certainly more informed than you were before, but the joy, meaning, and motivation go out of it.
    Agreed. If i ever have kids, i think i'm going to have them home-school, and do a semi-guided self-study or something like that.
    Most higher education relies on self-study anyway so it'll be great to get them on that track early on. it's not good to be dependent on how well a class is taught for one's education.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suz View Post
    Agreed. If i ever have kids, i think i'm going to have them home-school, and do a semi-guided self-study or something like that.
    Most higher education relies on self-study anyway so it'll be great to get them on that track early on. it's not good to be dependent on how well a class is taught for one's education.
    Yes. I've usually found my time spent in class to be wasted anyway. There's only one class I've had where I couldn't figure things out on my own, and that's when I was reading Hemingway. His novels are easy to read, but there are a lot of implications in his works that are hidden in plain sight. So when you're reading, you have to force yourself to slow down and look for them, which you don't often have time to do in college.

    I often wish I had been homeschooled as a kid. It would have been a lot more time efficient. Once kids know to read well enough to go to a dictionary and get knowledge themselves, the process of learning tends to be an automatic positive feedback loop, unless you kill the joy for learning, like all public schools do. My high school years are basically totally forgotten. I remember a couple of the faces and some of the classrooms and teachers. But I can't tell you much about what I learned there, which means I probably didn't learn very much at all. It was mostly sitting in a desk and listening to someone talk for hours on end. Maybe that's one of the reasons why I can't stand monologues these days. Hmm.
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