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Thread: I'm a EII and my crush is either LSE or SLE

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    Default I'm a EII and my crush is either LSE or SLE

    So I've been chatting with this guy for a while and we have plans to meet. For the most part, I thought he was LSE and of course, I was busy fantasising out life together. Only recently did the thought that he might be SLE sink in and looking at the pieces, it all makes sense.

    This has happened to me before, I hate how duals and conflictors are so much alike at first glance. Augh. Anyway, I just came to vent, is this the right thread for that? lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indeterminate View Post
    So I've been chatting with this guy for a while and we have plans to meet. For the most part, I thought he was LSE and of course, I was busy fantasising out life together. Only recently did the thought that he might be SLE sink in and looking at the pieces, it all makes sense.

    This has happened to me before, I hate how duals and conflictors are so much alike at first glance. Augh. Anyway, I just came to vent, is this the right thread for that? lol.
    It is now.

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    It's good to get the opinions about your type. Mb it's other than you think. And SLE or other is better than LSE for you.
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1096450

    To type people you need the skills. Like in anything. Without good skills you have significant chance to mistake to the degree to mb do not use the typology.
    Use your heart to understand is what you have - _friendship attraction_ or other? Do you perceive this man as your friend? Do you trust him as the friend? If you see the friend in him - it mb good IR. Besides friendship you may to feel the passion also, but friendship - deep soul attraction - is the obligate and main thing.

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    @Indeterminate, you could ask these guys what kind of music they like. Then compare them to the musical choices of @Sol (LSE) and @niffer (SLE).
    I don't know if @UDP (LSE) has posted any videos he likes.

    Personally, LSE and SLE seem as different as Night and Day, but it might take some time to see this right away.

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    lol yeah compare musical tastes that'll do it

    sol is some russian guy and niffer is an asian woman, depending on where OP is from is unless you can abstract out the type related and not culture/gender/age aspects of taste music is going to be almost entirely related to those latter aspects. also if you can abstract out those things you might as well just read a description because you already know type on an abstract level. further, this entire question makes it sound like the fate of this relationship is predicated on type [1], but if you just interact with him and find deep "soul attraction" that tells you what type they are, you don't need to determine type up front to see if the relationship has potential, because type and the relationship potential both unfold as a product of interacting with this person. you can't get ahead of that via "signs" related to an abstract system and pre-determine who this person is. its just another form of stereotyping to do that. saying person x does y therefore they're type x and I don't like type x is a weird way to abstract your choice of relationships through a system when its like the whole point of socionics is people do x for different reasons, and type is how two people can do or say the same thing and mean two different things by it. you don't know the significance of what a person does until you get to know them, for example if this person likes soviet music maybe its because they see it as a meaningful symbol of how propaganda can hijack a society, or maybe they legit love communism

    this is a good example of the difference between subjectivism and objectivism though with adam trying to "get ahead" of things in a subjectivist manner. strat talks about this at length about how the idea is with subjectivists is to map things out first and then act whereas with objectivist its to discover the territory and then map it


    [1] in other words, the proper order is not: discern type via concrete signs-> act accordingly to predetermined fate (this has potential or it doesn't, stay or leave); rather it is: act-> fate (things already are what they are)-> type is discerned -> concrete signs are interpreted accordingly. the signs have no fixed meaning up front, and they're not the basis for proceeding, its their underlying meaning which is only discovered via interaction that determines compatibility, but it cannot be assessed up front except in the most obtuse terms. this also allows for learning and transformation.




    in the idiot there's this story about myshkin who gets hit up by a street person to buy an obviously fake necklace as if it were silver when its clearly tin. myshkin buys it anyway because he has pity on the man, and the man walks off clearly self satisfied and thinking he fooled myshkin. myshkin wears the necklace--it is in that moment the necklace is transformed from tin to silver--why is gold worth anything? what were the alchemists after? they were after gold in the sense of meaning [2] and the necklace inasmuch as it stands for something represents much more than "silver" in its purely physical capacity, because of precisely how it symbolizes how petty and selfish and short sighted people are (but also how much they are desperate and needy). the necklace as a reminder of the vanity of wealth and so forth is what makes it precious. that lesson is worth more than any tabulation on a ledger because its precisely in accumulating numbers is what lesser minds hope to transform into a qualitative experience, but its available right in front of them if they simply make the leap. that necklace as a rosary is now worth far more than a silver necklace the aristocratic clergy drapes itself in. they have lost the meaning of their symbols. the aristocracy of delta is in people's capacity to understand this, the aristocracy of beta is to represent it in physical form. its the difference between teenagers and mature people. delta is aristocratic in the sense but they cant help but look down on the people who "don't get it" not as a matter of condescension or hate, but as a matter of hierarchical arrangement of values, which amounts to pity in its qualitative form

    [2] value, the physical form and the intuition are wrapped up. the search for the physical instantiation was predicated on the value, this is how in the pursuit of the physical transformation Jung could discern the meaning underlying it. in a world rich in meaning (the middle ages) the project was to reify it, in our world full of physical opulence the goal is to rediscover the meaning. the process of alchemy goes both ways
    Last edited by Bertrand; 05-26-2018 at 10:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Indeterminate, you could ask these guys what kind of music they like. Then compare them to the musical choices of Sol (LSE) and niffer (SLE)
    musical taste may depend on concrete Jung's type not much

    to some types traits and their matches - mb, _partly_, as the tendency
    for example, S types are simpler and may prefer music with clear melody. J types music with simple/predictable structure. so among jazz, progressive rock fans mb more of P-N types

    being LSE I may like some progressive music, but heard not many of it - it's not my main interest
    I saw EII which liked rather aggressive metal. more aggressive than I'd liked
    know IEI which likes jazz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Indeterminate View Post
    So I've been chatting with this guy for a while and we have plans to meet. For the most part, I thought he was LSE and of course, I was busy fantasising out life together. Only recently did the thought that he might be SLE sink in and looking at the pieces, it all makes sense.

    This has happened to me before, I hate how duals and conflictors are so much alike at first glance. Augh. Anyway, I just came to vent, is this the right thread for that? lol.
    I'm gonna rain on your party with an alternative theory I thought was stupid 4 years ago, but have begun to sincerely respect:

    Duals lack congruent life values!
    Duals have antagonistic perspectives!
    (but here's the dirty secret)
    Duals don't like each other normatively!


    Unless they accept that each other's way of life is alien but there's nothing wrong with it - being dualised. Their mutually alien ways are where the long-term compatibility is, barring other interpersonal compatibility factors. The constant tug of war is always invigorating these relations, the partnership is never boring but comes to be bizarrely symbiotic.

    DCNH is another compatibility factor.

    Nevertheless, if the person was truly your conflictor - the temperament differences would be the biggest highlight. SLE-N lacks traditional beta values, but you'd still find subtle irritation with the temperament differences.
    Last edited by Soupman; 05-28-2018 at 12:51 PM.

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    Musical preference has nothing to do with your type, obviously. But why you listen to what you do has very much with how you tick. I know two LSE and SLE males very closely and neither are particularly fussed about what they listen to. I found that the SLE was more interested in learning and mastering musical instruments, he enjoyed traditional music, music that contains poetry and political hip hop. I asked him once if it affected his mood or gave him feelings and he kind of looked at me dumbfounded and said no, music is just mathematics why would it make you feel anything lol. The LSE, Te subtype, has no particular preference when it comes to music and doesn't really care for it. I know an LSE female, possibly Si subtype and quite sentimental, who really enjoys more nostalgic beats. She plays classical instruments.

    I still can't tell the difference between my conflictor and my dual, tbh and at this point I am thinking neither LSE or SLE are my duals. But I don't often click with LSEs the way I have SLEs. SLEs are far more lighthearted and easier to interact with, our fights don't last while my quarrels with LSEs linger lmfao.

    LSEs are nice and practical, but can be very pedantic and serious.

    SLEs are mean and practical, but goofy and fun.

    Perhaps that's one way to identify them lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thelocust View Post
    I still can't tell the difference between my conflictor and my dual, tbh and at this point I am thinking neither LSE or SLE are my duals. But I don't often click with LSEs the way I have SLEs. SLEs are far more lighthearted and easier to interact with, our fights don't last while my quarrels with LSEs linger lmfao.
    Have you considered EIE for your type?
    I always get the impression you're EIE from reading your posts.

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    @Daisy

    I've considered IEE and EIE.

    I am all about the Ne.

    What makes you think EIE?

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    Thanks for all your input. Right now I am about 90% sure he is an SLE by asking him these questions: How responsible do you think you are? And do you consider yourself spontaneous? To that he answered with "I am only responsible for myself" and "I am always spontaneous".

    I think that's the final nail in the coffin y'all *cries*

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    Quote Originally Posted by thelocust View Post
    @Daisy

    I've considered IEE and EIE.

    I am all about the Ne.

    What makes you think EIE?
    Tell if I'm wrong, when I read your thread "EII doomed to be perceived as arrogant" I thought EIE... I know an EIE who expresses herself the same way you do and act like you described yourself in your posts (if you want more specific answers I PM you if you're ok with it). I also got Exxj vibes more than Exxp because you seem to want to control situations around you. You also appear to be very straightforward (in an Exxj way) and quick to act while being responsible and liking/needing someone who's responsible/stable too (Ixxj).

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    Lse and sle are so much different 😑

    Bossy and nitpicking = LSE

    Laid back and annoying for others = SLE

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    Don't believe in duality. It's a hoax.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    musical taste may depend on concrete Jung's type not much

    to some types traits and their matches - mb, _partly_, as the tendency
    for example, S types are simpler and may prefer music with clear melody. J types music with simple/predictable structure. so among jazz, progressive rock fans mb more of P-N types

    being LSE I may like some progressive music, but heard not many of it - it's not my main interest
    I saw EII which liked rather aggressive metal. more aggressive than I'd liked
    know IEI which likes jazz
    Musical taste is not type related
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    They can seem very much alike on the surface.
    My husband was way more affectionate and established his love for me with words. I had dated an SLE before and he never said he loved me even years and years of knowing him. My husband was all about “I love you “ like two days later and this has been consistent. He consistently is this way. LSE bring you rest and relaxation SLE brings you experience and sensation

    Valuing ethics of relationships LSE will want to solidify the relationship quickly with its status “you are my friend “ or “you are my wife “ not how one should live life or what a man’s role in the hierarchy is “the man is the captain of the ship and the woman helps him steer” My husband says “I’m the driver you rest” lol

    But yes so many similarities like both like business, both are funny. Both plan activities like they will plan a trip or a date.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    @Sol
    What about renaissance polyphony?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Use your heart to understand is what you have - _friendship attraction_ or other? Do you perceive this man as your friend? Do you trust him as the friend? If you see the friend in him - it mb good IR. Besides friendship you may to feel the passion also, but friendship - deep soul attraction - is the obligate and main thing.
    Aw Sol. I think you are right that they will feel like a good friend.

    Is your username Sol, like the word sun in Spanish?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Is your username Sol, like the word sun in Spanish?
    It's a derivative from character's name in one of books. Initial nick's usage was for multiplayer games. That the word means sun in some languages I've noticed years later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    It's a derivative from character's name in one of books. Initial nick's usage was for multiplayer games. That the word means sun in some languages I've noticed years later.
    Sol is also the name of a character in a kid's show. 'Sol et Gobelet' was the title. It is in french.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flowers and sugar View Post
    Sol is also the name of a character in a kid's show. 'Sol et Gobelet' was the title. It is in french.
    The are different meanings.
    While that character's name was based on the word meaning "salt".

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    @Sol I see. I once met an Estp called Sol. He was very special and indeed had a face like the sun. So your username always reminded me of him lol.

    Sol (like the sun) suits you too! how your nature comes across- warm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Sol (like the sun) suits you too! how your nature comes across- warm
    Base T types are doubtful to say as warm. And negative emotions are not rare for me.
    IRL I should give other impression.

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    @Sol Haha. But you use rich, descriptive language and that is warm. And you give advice, describing ideals in a way that captures the imagination and inspires. Warm like the sun!

    I think sometimes I see si as ‘too warm’..makes me feel too vulnerable lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    But you use rich, descriptive language and that is warm.
    To like Te thinking style would be not often for IEI.
    I may look at your typing video.

    > And you give advice, describing ideals in a way that captures the imagination and inspires.

    If that will inspire actions, mb that will lead you to better.

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    @Sol Haha. Nope IEI. Not brave enough to post a video atm.

    There is a famous LSE gardener (Monty Don) in the UK who I follow on instagram. He has a similar nice style of writing.


    I can’t read all of your posts, they can be hard to concentrate on. I pick and choose

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    If that will inspire actions, mb that will lead you to better.
    Naturally!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    There is a famous LSE gardener (Monty Don) in the UK who I follow on instagram. He has a similar nice style of writing.
    mb LIE

    > Not brave enough to post a video atm.

    to know new needs some bravery
    there are millions of people with social network accounts having photos. to place a video is similar situation

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    @necrosebud yep it depends on the person. I have only really had one LSE friend. We got on well but I always thought there was something peculiar about him! I think he was a bit of a peculiar guy to be fair. Not in a bad way. Very well loved by many as well! We were part of a group but I found it hard to stay in contact after moving away from that group of people. My friend’s boyfriend is LSE and I enjoy his company but sometimes it can feel a bit stressful. My boss is LSE and he’s upset me before but I like him. With these two LSE I mention, at first I was a bit wary of them.

    Surely the dream goal is to get on with all the types

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    mb LIE

    > Not brave enough to post a video atm.

    to know new needs some bravery
    there are millions of people with social network accounts having photos. to place a video is similar situation
    It could be kind of creative..

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    Quote Originally Posted by necrosebud View Post
    yeah...I don't think friendships are impossible. I'm personally just...wary of further closeness.
    Same, I mean in some sort of idealised world haha. Or something I aspire to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    It could be kind of creative..
    Then you'd could to write "Surviving guide after posting a video to Internet".

    And a novel for housewifes magazines with a plot alike:
    A girl is in long depression and the life days seem as grey and senseless.
    She posts a video in Internet without clear idea why. After a time she notices a "stalker" waiting near home.
    She reports to a police. They catch him and find that he've passed the border illegally by swimming the ocean. Also he had 10 kg of cocaine which his friend asked him to help transfer as he goes there anyway.
    She gets a dream and understands he's long lost soulmate and great love from past life! This explains his interest and her depression caused by missing him.
    She notices as great feelings return and the life gets new sense. But the guy is at prison now and it's the obstacle for joining.
    She wants to find money for freeing him by jail break. For this, she agrees be hired by CIA and go to Cuba to be an agent there as has relatives there.
    In one day she talks with an old woman who had a romance with her grandfather, from a family of rich planters. That woman shows the photos, where she noticed a strange tatoo on grandfather's somewhere near the back and remembers how in childhood he told her stories about treasure hiden on Cuba and which he could not take during going away after Castro's revolution. She understands it's the map for that treasure, takes that photo and finely gets money.
    Using CIA contacts among crimes she organises a jail break of her "great love" soulmate.
    Now they are followed by police and CIA. As the best place to hide they decide it's Russian Syberia.
    They live in a hut, in wildlands full of bears and spruce trees. And now are happy!

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    These two can usually be easily distinguished by asking them very specific questions such as: "Where do you see yourself in 5 years?" or What have you accomplished most recently? or What do you dislike the most?
    SLEs seem far more casual and often gives the appearance that they love freedom so much that they don't want to commit while LSEs tend to exude intransigence and strong opinions.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by necrosebud View Post
    I'm not sure this is true for all LSEs...
    I think some are comfortable appearing more flexible/open and saying they don't quite know
    Si-types tend to treat everything that they have accepted as true as being sacrosanct. Of course, if they're venturing into new areas, they can be very open - until their knowledge base reaches critical mass. Whatever flexibility on information that they may show (and most people do have public personas) is often not what they think. Now Se-types will usually never be so convinced of what they know although, publicly, they too may put on a good show.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    @necrosebud I have this idea that our conflictor sort of reminds us of ourselves a bit. And our dual reminds us of our quasi-identical. (I'm sure there is a better way of putting it in socionics technical speak). Quasi-identicals admire each other and are often good friends. And a dual is like a more practical version of them for a romantic relationship! Same could go for semi-duals, illusionary and super-ego. They remind us a little of their conflictor types, but we are able to get on with them better! But they have a similar type of intrigue as them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I have this idea that our conflictor sort of reminds us of ourselves a bit.
    Conflictors are the _least_ similar types. It's higher possible that a human has other IR or you know him too bad.

    There are situations with lesser common behavior as entertaining, alcohol etc - there weak functions can be expressed higher. In situations which people take seriously they behave more classically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Conflictors are the _least_ similar types. It's higher possible that a human has other IR or you know him too bad.

    There are situations with lesser common behavior as entertaining, alcohol etc - there weak functions can be expressed higher. In situations which people take seriously they behave more classically.
    yeah I agree I can have fun with LSE in particular settings (for example, dancing!) I knew an LSE once (before I knew about socionics who I thought was one of the nicest people I've ever met). Also, know a few who I don't get on with so well.

    Usually when I feel annoyed with an LSE, I don't want to feel annoyed at them. I stop myself from getting angry (or try) and this is a good reminder to myself that I am capable of being tolerant towards someone who is different to me, makes me feel like a good person. If I get frustrated with them, I often feel a bit guilty afterwards. I think it reminds me to be easier on myself, in a way. No one is perfect, and we should have empathy towards ourselves for not being perfect.

    I'm sorry I'm super tired so I can try to explain it better later. I have a date tonight with someone who is either LSE/SLE and I didn't sleep as I was nervous hahaha.

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    @Sol great story btw, made me smile

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    yeah I agree I can have fun with LSE in particular settings (for example, dancing!) I knew an LSE once (before I knew about socionics who I thought was one of the nicest people I've ever met). Also, know a few who I don't get on with so well.
    Conflictors have same strong functions and same E/I as duals, it's among noticed easier than other life priorities (functional values). The _difference_ with you attracts to them and surface similarity with duals makes them be perceived positively. They look as good fiting to your ideals of mahood/femininity. Problems of the cooperation are noticed in closer communication.

    > No one is perfect, and we should have empathy towards ourselves for not being perfect.

    I'd look at your video.
    It's also useful to become better and make others. The questions is about ways. To do not push away can be a part of this.
    If to take conflictors - other functional values and J/P is not worse or lesser important, it's just harder and lesser pleasant to process them.
    In ideal psyche all 8 functions would have same value and strenght. The lesser Jung type is expressed and in better general state is a psyche - easier is to deal with bad IR people.

    > I have a date tonight with someone who is either LSE/SLE

    The more useful is to evaluate can a human be good friend - by inner impressions of sympathy and trust, by how positively he influences on your selfesteem and energy. As mistakes in types are often and other traits besides types are important too.
    Also mistakes in types are more expected when a human is not known good and for long, when you have small experience in typing, when you have feelings which make prejusticed to think about possible IR.

    > Sol great story btw, made me smile

    I tried to model how IEI would write a novel - feelings, mysticism, low realism.

    That story has an epilogue.
    The man was contrabandist indeed. He was near her home for other reasons. He never said this to her.
    Later, her feelings and efforts impressed him to inspire feelings in return. Also he had no wish to stay very long time in a prison.
    The girl by fantasies has adopted the reality to her real needs.
    Is there a past life? Was that man her soulmate and old love? It's not known.
    They felt good together and were happier than ever before. It's the most important.

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    Both demonstrate helpfulness willing to take care of you are strong and can be reliable. And depending on their backgrounds both can seem very Se like being attracted to nice places and nice food. Both can seem like they want to alight with you the person you are as in if you express a certain opinion or preference for they will mirror it and make it seem as though they too are that way. They both talk about their work too so both can seem Te
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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