insert attention-grabbing title here

[wasp]

i've been obsessed with typology for nearing 3 years now and during that time i've been on a relentless search for my real type. i don't know why i care so much, nor do i know why i put so much stock in the validity of the system. all i know is that i probably won't be able to move on until i get a definitive answer. what makes my search even more confusing is my hatred and fear of endings. why, if i can't finish anything else, would i want to finish this? i never finish books, tv series, not even cigarettes. i'll light it, smoke it, and then put it out two puffs before i should. it doesn't make sense.

questionnaires are too restrictive for my taste because i don't perform well under imaginary pressure. my mind goes blank whenever i'm asked questions so i hope this stream-of-consciousness rant will make for a decent placeholder. i'll try to format it in such a way that it doesn't bore you to tears. i'll also try to be as honest as possible.

alright, so. i have a bad habit of repeating the same mistakes over and over again, and this is usually due to negligence. an example of this would be forgetting to put the milk back in the fridge after i'm done using it, or messing up my room not even a day after tidying it up. i pay very little attention to my surroundings, as well as what i'm saying and doing, because i'm usually operating on autopilot. my dad used to joke that my brain would be wiped clean of the previous day's happenings every night. i walk into doors and walls a lot. loud noises aggravate me to no end and in the past i've been brought to tears by the phone ringing. i'm extremely good at pissing off all the wrong people and i have a refined penchant for doing it by merely existing. if you haven't noticed already, i fall back on self-deprecating humor a lot.

i oscillate between serious and playful and back again and i do this regularly enough that multiple people in my life have taken notice of it and pointed it out to me. it confuses them. it has led a few to speculate that i might be bipolar. i also have a tendency to complain about the same things over and over again, which ties into me repeating the same mistakes over and over again. i'm extremely anxious and insecure but most of the time i push both of those down in favor of a sillier and more carefree disposition, to make myself more appealing to others. i'm probably the laziest person to ever exist but, by the same token, i can be very driven when i really want something, which hasn't happened in years but i'm sure it will once i get my life back on track. some people think i hold inconsistent views and beliefs but i disagree. i think they just confuse serious me with playful me and vice versa, and so they have difficulty distinguishing sincerity from satire. i like it when people maintain psychological distance in interactions.

i'm terrified of complimenting myself because i fear that if i do and what i say doesn't align with external opinion, i'll be attacked or judged for lacking self-awareness. right now, though, i don't really care. (okay i do but i'm pretending i don't to make this easier on myself) i make a considerable effort to be friendly, inclusive, and sweet. i can't say no so sometimes i'll say yes even when i don't want to or i know i won't so the other person doesn't feel bad. i will listen to people vent about their problems for hours on end, even if i don't particularly like the person, and i have a talent for making anyone anywhere feel comfortable. i get pleasure from life's little surprises, like snow days and finding a t-shirt i thought i lost years ago. there have been three instances where i've semi-spontaneously cut my hair and it was the most freeing feeling ever. even people who have known me for years have a hard time complimenting me and i don't know why, but i've been described as being goofy, honest, independent, and brave. i've also been described as having a good heart. i feel bogged down past mistakes i've made and others' opinions and expectations of me. i think people dislike me way more than they actually do and this was made evident to me last year when i read through old forum posts of mine and realized that i'm actually a decent writer, and people liked me a fair bit. i just couldn't see or feel it at the time.

people who don't know me have a tendency to preemptively dislike me, but the ones who are close to me have a relatively high opinion of me, i think. it's astonishing how many times my family members and close friends have said, "but you don't know her like i do!" but i coached soccer a few months back and apparently every single player and parent took a liking to me, which was interesting. i try to be open-minded. i may silently judge others but it's rare that i'll call them out for it, unless they're seriously hurting me, a loved one, or someone i perceive as being incapable of defending themselves. i also try very hard not to say or do things that i think will hurt or offend others, except for when i get angry, because then i'm like rAAaaAaWrRrR. but that doesn't happen very often anymore, if at all. i don't know how much of this is reflective of my real personality and how much of it is just anxiety, insecurity, and depression tainting my perception of myself... unless that is my personality?! but that doesn't make sense because i used to be a very fun(ny) and happy-go-lucky girl a few years ago.

i love kids. i like animals, too, but they freak me out in real life because i never know what they're thinking. i'm unusually skilled at expressing my thoughts when i'm angry, which is funny because most of the time my verbal prose sounds like a bowl of alphabet soup + word salad's love child. my family thinks i'm serious, sensitive, and reserved, but that's not how i feel on the inside. i love reading and i could spend all day on the internet reading about typology, book/movie/show theories, scary stories (creepypasta and r/nosleep), personal blogs of people i'm interested in, and psych/socio/anthro articles. i have no idea what i want to do with my life and i don't think i ever will. i'm usually overcome by inertia and apathy and i put everything off because it's never the right time. my self-care and self-preservation instincts are practically non-existent, as is my memory. there's good things, too, i'm sure of it, but i'm at a loss for them right now.

thank you so much for reading. i will answer any and all questions. type away, strangers from the internet!

[golden]

Hi. I don't know what to say yet, but I don't want you to be left dangling with no responses yet. Welcome!

[Pallas]

Well, from the writing style and a few things you've said, I'm leaning LIE.

[Satan]

ili

[Sol]

you want be typed without good info for this. video-inerview is needed

[wasp]

@goldenbane hi and thanks!

@Verbrannte writing style aside, what else struck you as LIE?

@Satan why so?

@Sol no can do, unfortunately. i posted a video once before and it resulted in unsolicited sexually explicit PMs. the consensus was xSI but i don't know if a video of me talking to myself is a good indicator of type. i need someone in the room with me to bounce ideas off of, else i'll talk myself in circles with a deadpan expression.

i'm generally honest (that is, unless i'm up to something, which i'm not) so i'm open to answering any questions you may have.

[Sol]

no can do

yes, you can

> i posted a video once before and it resulted in unsolicited sexually explicit PMs

this depends where you posted it and what that video contained. anyway, you may don't read pms at all. no religion forces to read pms

> the consensus was xSI but i don't know if a video of me talking to myself is a good indicator of type

nonverbal behavior is very important for typing. not lesser than other data

> i need someone in the room with me to bounce ideas off of, else i'll talk myself in circles with a deadpan expression

by the link are examples of videos. anyone may do similar

[wasp]

this depends where you posted it and what that video contained. anyway, you may don't read pms at all. no religion forces to read pms

a different typology forum. it was just a regular video of me talking. by the same token, though, no religion is forcing me to post a video.

nonverbal behavior is very important for typing. not lesser than other data

yes, but

i need someone in the room with me to bounce ideas off of, else i'll talk myself in circles with a deadpan expression

well, i could PM you a link to the video except that this: "the atmosphere is comfortable and confident" doesn't apply. what do, officer?

[Pallas]

@circles are neat

my self-care and self-preservation instincts are practically non-existent, as is my memory.

PoLR, and probably secondary since tends to be the most spaced-out.

questionnaires are too restrictive for my taste because i don't perform well under imaginary pressure. my mind goes blank whenever i'm asked questions so i hope this stream-of-consciousness rant will make for a decent placeholder.

Declaring type.


Actually, just look at LIE here: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=Reinin_dichotomies

There's also this article: http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...e_Styles(wiki) which is a big part of what I mean with writing styles, although it's really hard to explain how that connects (I mean, it has to do with structure of writing as well as how people associate subjects, but that's hard to explain like it's hard to explain how to do skill based things like play a piano). I think VS leads to much of the most beautiful prose for whatever reason. That's probably just because there are so many DA and CD writers that everyone's bored of them and the individual HP types don't tend to really be writers often from what I've seen.

You can also look at the other members and famous people I and others have typed LIE.

[Exodus]

i've been obsessed with typology for nearing 3 years now and during that time i've been on a relentless search for my real type. i don't know why i care so much, nor do i know why i put so much stock in the validity of the system. all i know is that i probably won't be able to move on until i get a definitive answer. what makes my search even more confusing is my hatred and fear of endings. why, if i can't finish anything else, would i want to finish this? i never finish books, tv series, not even cigarettes. i'll light it, smoke it, and then put it out two puffs before i should. it doesn't make sense.

questionnaires are too restrictive for my taste because i don't perform well under imaginary pressure. my mind goes blank whenever i'm asked questions so i hope this stream-of-consciousness rant will make for a decent placeholder. i'll try to format it in such a way that it doesn't bore you to tears. i'll also try to be as honest as possible.

alright, so. i have a bad habit of repeating the same mistakes over and over again, and this is usually due to negligence. an example of this would be forgetting to put the milk back in the fridge after i'm done using it, or messing up my room not even a day after tidying it up. i pay very little attention to my surroundings, as well as what i'm saying and doing, because i'm usually operating on autopilot. my dad used to joke that my brain would be wiped clean of the previous day's happenings every night. i walk into doors and walls a lot. loud noises aggravate me to no end and in the past i've been brought to tears by the phone ringing. i'm extremely good at pissing off all the wrong people and i have a refined penchant for doing it by merely existing. if you haven't noticed already, i fall back on self-deprecating humor a lot.

i oscillate between serious and playful and back again and i do this regularly enough that multiple people in my life have taken notice of it and pointed it out to me. it confuses them. it has led a few to speculate that i might be bipolar. i also have a tendency to complain about the same things over and over again, which ties into me repeating the same mistakes over and over again. i'm extremely anxious and insecure but most of the time i push both of those down in favor of a sillier and more carefree disposition, to make myself more appealing to others. i'm probably the laziest person to ever exist but, by the same token, i can be very driven when i really want something, which hasn't happened in years but i'm sure it will once i get my life back on track. some people think i hold inconsistent views and beliefs but i disagree. i think they just confuse serious me with playful me and vice versa, and so they have difficulty distinguishing sincerity from satire. i like it when people maintain psychological distance in interactions.

i'm terrified of complimenting myself because i fear that if i do and what i say doesn't align with external opinion, i'll be attacked or judged for lacking self-awareness. right now, though, i don't really care. (okay i do but i'm pretending i don't to make this easier on myself) i make a considerable effort to be friendly, inclusive, and sweet. i can't say no so sometimes i'll say yes even when i don't want to or i know i won't so the other person doesn't feel bad. i will listen to people vent about their problems for hours on end, even if i don't particularly like the person, and i have a talent for making anyone anywhere feel comfortable. i get pleasure from life's little surprises, like snow days and finding a t-shirt i thought i lost years ago. there have been three instances where i've semi-spontaneously cut my hair and it was the most freeing feeling ever. even people who have known me for years have a hard time complimenting me and i don't know why, but i've been described as being goofy, honest, independent, and brave. i've also been described as having a good heart. i feel bogged down past mistakes i've made and others' opinions and expectations of me. i think people dislike me way more than they actually do and this was made evident to me last year when i read through old forum posts of mine and realized that i'm actually a decent writer, and people liked me a fair bit. i just couldn't see or feel it at the time.

people who don't know me have a tendency to preemptively dislike me, but the ones who are close to me have a relatively high opinion of me, i think. it's astonishing how many times my family members and close friends have said, "but you don't know her like i do!" but i coached soccer a few months back and apparently every single player and parent took a liking to me, which was interesting. i try to be open-minded. i may silently judge others but it's rare that i'll call them out for it, unless they're seriously hurting me, a loved one, or someone i perceive as being incapable of defending themselves. i also try very hard not to say or do things that i think will hurt or offend others, except for when i get angry, because then i'm like rAAaaAaWrRrR. but that doesn't happen very often anymore, if at all. i don't know how much of this is reflective of my real personality and how much of it is just anxiety, insecurity, and depression tainting my perception of myself... unless that is my personality?! but that doesn't make sense because i used to be a very fun(ny) and happy-go-lucky girl a few years ago.

i love kids. i like animals, too, but they freak me out in real life because i never know what they're thinking. i'm unusually skilled at expressing my thoughts when i'm angry, which is funny because most of the time my verbal prose sounds like a bowl of alphabet soup + word salad's love child. my family thinks i'm serious, sensitive, and reserved, but that's not how i feel on the inside. i love reading and i could spend all day on the internet reading about typology, book/movie/show theories, scary stories (creepypasta and r/nosleep), personal blogs of people i'm interested in, and psych/socio/anthro articles. i have no idea what i want to do with my life and i don't think i ever will. i'm usually overcome by inertia and apathy and i put everything off because it's never the right time. my self-care and self-preservation instincts are practically non-existent, as is my memory. there's good things, too, i'm sure of it, but i'm at a loss for them right now.

thank you so much for reading. i will answer any and all questions. type away, strangers from the internet!

EIE comes to mind. I usually don't like typing without video or at least a questionnaire, but some observations:

-emotionally variable (high Fe)
-lacking stability, self-preservation, and attention to maintaining the environment (low Si and Ti)
-fearfulness, word salad, inertia and apathy (Ni ego)
-attentive to what you say and its effect (high Fe, could be Fi as well)
-curious - reading on the internet about random things (high Ne)
-"there have been three instances where i've semi-spontaneously cut my hair and it was the most freeing feeling ever" - this shows that you value free expression and spontaneity; it's also linked with Se (physical appearance)
-The part about people liking or disliking you suggests that you are maybe a controversial person, so likely Se valuing.

[wasp]

@Verbrannte sweet, thanks for the link. i usually get typed ESI so xIE is a little surprising. what are the usernames of the members you've typed LIE? the vocabulary used in this wikipedia article is slightly more advanced than what i'm used to so i might be misunderstanding what this sentence means, but i don't think this fits me very well:

"LIE thinks very experimentally with many variants rapidly assorted and mentally tested on the fly for practical applicability."

i've been told i have a discombobulated, mostly nonsensical stream-of-consciousness writing style. i repeat myself a lot, saying the same thing over and over again but with different words every time, sometimes i'll even throw in weakly thought-out analogies, and then i'll wrap it all up with a self-deprecating sentence pointing out all the social faux pas i made while typing/talking (i.e. repeating myself, not making sense, etc). the only instances where i make sense are when i'm discussing something i've written about previously, so a topic i'm very interested in, or when i'm angry and chewing somebody out. but i mentally beat myself up afterwards so i try really hard not to, when i can help myself, that is. i found an old blog of mine a few weeks ago and in it my writing was almost exactly the same then as it is now.

when i can find the time, i'm gonna try reading the wiki article in full. the theory is fascinating but it's a lot to take in.

@thehotelambush thank ya. i relate to the descriptions for Ti and Fi POLR, Se and Ne POLR sometimes, and Ni and Si POLR kinda.

edit: i filled out the 80q last year but i half-assed most of it. i can dig it up and revise it, if that would help, but it might take a while.

[Exodus]

@circles are neat mind posting your blog?

"LIE thinks very experimentally with many variants rapidly assorted and mentally tested on the fly for practical applicability."

i've been told i have a discombobulated, mostly nonsensical stream-of-consciousness writing style. i repeat myself a lot, saying the same thing over and over again but with different words every time, sometimes i'll even throw in weakly thought-out analogies, and then i'll wrap it all up with a self-deprecating sentence pointing out all the social faux pas i made while typing/talking (i.e. repeating myself, not making sense, etc). the only instances where i make sense are when i'm discussing something i've written about previously, so a topic i'm very interested in, or when i'm angry and chewing somebody out. but i mentally beat myself up afterwards so i try really hard not to, when i can help myself, that is. i found an old blog of mine a few weeks ago and in it my writing was almost exactly the same then as it is now.

This is consistent with EIE - high Ne, low Ti at least. Why on earth did people type you ESI?

[wasp]

@circles are neat mind posting your blog?



This is consistent with EIE - high Ne, low Ti at least. Why on earth did people type you ESI?

ah. i can't because of anonymity concerns, unfortunately.

well, these were people who had a decent understanding of mbti, but a weak understanding of socionics. they thought i used Fi, Se, and Ni, and then typed me accordingly. it made sense at the time but then i read about the quadras, romance styles, individual function descriptions, and ESI type descriptions, and something felt off.

[Eliza Thomason]

You sound like an adorable and interesting person. I sure enjoyed reading what you wrote; you write well, and engagingly. I do not have any firm read on your type (as I occasionally do) but most likely an xNFx. I am thinking particularly perhaps INFp or ENFp. Not ENFj, actually.

I find myself leaning ENFp. As different as you might be from me - probably younger, probably different life paths - I do find I relate directly to a bunch of things you say here. Like, if I were you, living your life, I would respond in the same way. On so many accounts! I even have the strong sensitive reactions to loudness or discordant sounds***[see below], although I have not seen that before as being type-related.

I wish I was as self-deprecatingly humorous as you - but I do have a touch of that at times, for sure. I tend more towards the "serious" side of ENFp, probably because of situations in my life that required I develop that. Quick synopsis: I feel that because of my parental expectations and expectations of my schools/culture, I had to achieve in a way that did not come natural to me, and I spent a lot of time overcoming my flakiness, particularly in the eyes of others. I was extremely sensitive when it was pointed I was not serious/achieving/sensible enough so from early on and more as I grew, I worked hard at being perceived as competent to others. Then I married a critical/judgmental man, and spent my teaching career under critical principal who did not know how to compliment - me or anyone - and I think all that intensity to be serious over a long period of time led me to really hone my serious side and squash the lighter side. I should be able to lighten up now, but I spend a great deal of time care-giving in yet another serious situation. This is why I say that Identicals can be very different because of how their life's experiences influenced them, yet, they still think the same way... Also, they can be quite different especially because of who raised them - like, for example, if you were raised by your supervisor, conflictor, identical - it would shape you differently).

I think I will, after all, take the time to tell you the specific things you wrote about yourself here that that remind me of how I think/do things (not including anything I already said):

i've been obsessed with typology for nearing 3 years now and during that time i've been on a relentless search for my real type. i don't know why i care so much, nor do i know why i put so much stock in the validity of the system. all i know is that i probably won't be able to move on until i get a definitive answer.

I also get obsessed with a topic and can NOT put it down til I arrive at satisfaction of whatever is the origin of the curiosity. I can pursue a really, really long time - relentlessly - and not let it go until I get that illusive answer I am searching for. And because I have done this so often for many different things, when that curiosity needles me, I KNOW there is an answer, and I will seek til I find it.

what makes my search even more confusing is my hatred and fear of endings. why, if i can't finish anything else, would i want to finish this? i never finish books, tv series, not even cigarettes. i'll light it, smoke it, and then put it out two puffs before i should. it doesn't make sense.

This is an the MBTI xxxP trait, or what we call in Socionics, Irrational. (I bet you have not problem relating to the word "Irrational")

... i'll also try to be as honest as possible.

Me too. I have been called "candid" on more than one occasion in reference to my writing. (Not here at 16t!)

alright, so. i have a bad habit of repeating the same mistakes over and over again, and this is usually due to negligence. an example of this would be forgetting to put the milk back in the fridge after i'm done using it, or messing up my room not even a day after tidying it up. i pay very little attention to my surroundings, as well as what i'm saying and doing, because i'm usually operating on autopilot.

Not noticing whats going on around you - like that you ought to put the milk away, or that you ought to notice that wall headed your way - is an example of Ne in action, IMO. Your mind is off in other places, not in the place you are actually in...

my dad used to joke that my brain would be wiped clean of the previous day's happenings every night.

Aw. I see no bitterness there; it sounds like your Dad loves you and accepts you for who you are.

...i oscillate between serious and playful and back again and i do this regularly enough that multiple people in my life have taken notice of it and pointed it out to me. it confuses them.

I usually present "serious" - though I am friendly and welcoming for sure, as I want to please people and people are used to the serious side, so that when I am relaxed and untroubled and make little jokes about situations or myself people act confused because they have come to accept me as serious.

it has led a few to speculate that i might be bipolar...

I'm not seeing that at all in you.

i also have a tendency to complain about the same things over and over again,

Yes, when I am not careful I see myself doing this too, and I hate that I do that. I have begun apologizing for it as soon as I catch myself. I feel like I am burdening those around me when I do that. Who wants to listen to complaining?

I'm extremely anxious and insecure but most of the time i push both of those down in favor of a sillier and more carefree disposition, to make myself more appealing to others.

I push negatives down, also with a desire to be more appealing to others.

i'm probably the laziest person to ever exist but, by the same token, i can be very driven when i really want something,

I try to hide the laziness (only my husband knows) but I really feel I need those periods in order to locate that place of inspiration/motivation that pulls me all together towards the next goal - which I tend to be very driven about achieving when elusive "readiness" is achieved.

which hasn't happened in years but i'm sure it will once i get my life back on track.

That sounds like ENFp - we can achieve just about anything - when we put our minds to it. My Mom noticed that about me from a very young age - that if I was uninterested in a thing it was about impossible to get me onto it - but if I had an interest, I was all on it. In college when I was trying to transform myself into a high achiever instead of an average one, I found the trick was to find some way to make myself "get interested" in something I clearly wasn't. That was my key.

i'm terrified of complimenting myself because i fear that if i do and what i say doesn't align with external opinion, i'll be attacked or judged for lacking self-awareness. right now, though, i don't really care. (okay i do but i'm pretending i don't to make this easier on myself)

I also find it difficult to compliment myself because I feel like it needs to be all-true. Does my self-assessment lack integrity? And yes, I do not want to be criticized for what I say, so I try to state it carefully. There is a part of me that does not care what people think, though. True and right is more important than having people approve of what I say.

i make a considerable effort to be friendly, inclusive, and sweet. i can't say no so sometimes i'll say yes even when i don't want to or i know i won't so the other person doesn't feel bad. i will listen to people vent about their problems for hours on end, even if i don't particularly like the person, and i have a talent for making anyone anywhere feel comfortable.

Friendly, inclusive and sweet are ENFp ways... apparently in each Quadra there is one that "crosses over" or gets along with the other Quadra's pretty well, and in Delta its ENFp.

Also saying no has long been a challenge of mine, and I definitely don't want to make anyone feel bad. Also i can listen for hours on end, too, and never resent it. I recognize the "loss" of time and other goals, but it also seems a gain for that unexpected (usually) stretch of authentic relating, and for the privilege of knowing a person more deeply. Yes, also in a social situation I like spotting the uncomfortable one and finding a way to make them comfortable.

i get pleasure from life's little surprises, like snow days and finding a t-shirt i thought i lost years ago. there have been three instances where i've semi-spontaneously cut my hair and it was the most freeing feeling ever. even people who have known me for years have a hard time complimenting me and i don't know why, but i've been described as being goofy, honest, independent, and brave. i've also been described as having a good heart.

I relate to all that except maybe goofy. (goofy is good!)

BTW, when I am writing about myself I frequently without planning go to small "i" instead of capital. But I edit what I write for that and the typo's.. I do that small "i" so often that it must mean something... maybe type related! Like, "I know I am blabbing on about myself, but really, I honestly don't think I'm so important!" So maybe I am letting the little "i" say that for me subconsciously because I feel it needs to be said because I know I can be misunderstood. Because there is a need to talk about ourselves. For me, it helps me understand my thoughts and feelings - some things I just don't get until i wrote about them.

Journaling also is something I have always done for this reason - to understand myself. This is my own motive, my SLI husband's old journals were quite different. Mine were all exploring my thoughts and feelings - big pages- long entries, entered at random times, while his were very brief entries (sentence or two) telling about what he actually did that day, almost on a daily basis, with only very occasional "deeper-thought" entries. He is my 2nd husband, met later in life, and he kept those diaries in younger years - university, just-married, birth of his children and changing careers - so it was a real treasure for me to read them and understand who he was. (In fact it was when he was ready to admit he was serious and committed that he gave me the pile of old journals to take home with me back to my state, after a visit.)

Speaking of punctuation, I have noticed @applejacks, here, also an IEE, leaving periods off the end of her short posts, frequently. I sometimes think it might be related to the Irrational thing... Like: "Maybe I'm done talking and maybe I'm not. Leaving it open - just in case."

i feel bogged down past mistakes I've made and others' opinions and expectations of me..

This has always been an issue for me. And being bogged down by this is for me okay - because it makes me think the situation through: Was I unkind? judgmental? disingenuine? Because if I was, I want to know it, so I can correct myself, and make amends. So, contemplating on my possible errors in this way is fine for me. And apologizing for this sort of thing is not hard for me, once I am convinced I was wrong (But try to get me to say I was wrong when I truly think I was not? Hoo boy, that's another matter! I just can't, even if it saying so will easily make the peace I really want to make).

Please let me make a short shameless plug for what I believe - not to convert you, but just because I want to say my amazing "discovery" that works for me. Sacramental Confession is the true freedom from every past mistake, no matter how selfish, stupid, immoral - it really removes it, as far as east is from west. Jesus makes all things new! The past is a clean sweep! [Please know I am not trying to convert you or draw you into a conversation you don't want to have!]

people who don't know me have a tendency to preemptively dislike me, but the ones who are close to me have a relatively high opinion of me,

Some people here on 16T have not been shy to let me know they are not fond of me. Well, I want to be liked, so I don't love that, but it sure helps to know the great equality of the 16 Socionics types and the 16 intertype relationships. We all have the SAME amount of types of people who think we are terrific, think we are tolerable, think we are stupid and think we are boring or psycho (and most of them are represented here on 16t!). Also for me is the comfort of knowing that the ones close to me have a relatively high opinion of me, too!

i may silently judge others but it's rare that i'll call them out for it, unless they're seriously hurting me, a loved one, or someone i perceive as being incapable of defending themselves.

Me too exactly! Yes, I do not call them on it, unless I think its for their own good and I can find a kind way to say it, and I will do so most gingerly, but most of the time if its a big problem I will take them on as a prayer responsibility. I also think people do wrong/stupid/immoral things for reasons that, if I were them, would probably make perfect sense to me. There but for the grace of God go I... And totally yes - if someone is suffering an injustice, or seems unable to defend themselves, I don't care what anyone thinks of me, I will speak, and I don't care if I leave a wake of resentment behind me, as long as the injustice was addressed.

i also try very hard not to say or do things that i think will hurt or offend others,

me too!

.. my family thinks i'm serious, sensitive, and reserved, but that's not how i feel on the inside. i love reading and i could spend all day on the internet reading about typology, book/movie/show theories, scary stories (creepypasta and r/nosleep), personal blogs of people i'm interested in, and psych/socio/anthro articles.

me too (not the "creepypasta" - whatever that is)

i have no idea what i want to do with my life and i don't think i ever will. i'm usually overcome by inertia and apathy and i put everything off because it's never the right time. my self-care and self-preservation instincts are practically non-existent, as is my memory. there's good things, too, i'm sure of it, but i'm at a loss for them right now.

I felt so much pressure in my teen/college years to have a plan, from my family, friends, immediate culture - I had to, like it or not (and I did not). Maybe no one pressures you enough. What helped me get there ("There" basically was having a plan to tell people who asked, and that I was demonstratively working towards, with enough acceptable effort to not be pressured any more) was knowing that I could always change my mind later. I changed my college major several times, pursing different directions altogether, up to the last "minute" - during junior year - when I really had to decide and specialize. When I started teaching, the first week, before the students arrived, another teacher, a veteran of some years, was asking me about my future plans and I said "probably only teach a year or two", shocking her, because it was a good job I was lucky to get. But I could not imagine being in the same place so long, like her. (I did end up staying 9 years with same staff/same school).

Well, that's a lot of thoughts. Hope it helps. I am now pretty convinced you are ENFp. So maybe that "adorable" quality is just you reminding me of myself! But, maybe INFp. Those two seem closer in MBTI than in Socionics. Just look up Quadra values for Beta (INFp/IEI's Quadra) and Delta (ENFp/IEE's Quadra) and you will see a big difference in orientations.

_________
***also smells! My husband is one who makes me feel free to be me, so, like sounds, he has had to get used to my smell-sensitivities. Like I do not like toothpaste smell in his mouth - he rinses better now. I do not like Dial soap smell - he likes deodorant soap so we use "Pure and Basic Green Tea Deodorant Soap" now, and buy it in bulk, online, enough at a time to get free shipping. And I do not like bleach or ammonia products for cleaning, so we use Orange Clean... also I think scented deodorants smell yuk so we use a liquid rock crystal spray (that and the deodorant soap and we are good)... Also I have "cell phone radiation aversion" probably the wrong terminology but I always keep my cell phone away from me whenever possible -- and I can sense it when one is pointed at me! I am the only one I ever heard of that can "feel" that, but I honestly do.

[applejacks]

Yes, I leave off punctuation. I see it more as a sign of informality than anything. I never neglect my punctuation when I'm writing formal pieces such as resumes, essays, cover letters, thank you notes, etc.

Other er than that possible reason, I'm not sure why I do it.

[wasp]

@Eliza Thomason wow, thank you for that thoughtful response. i'm in the middle of reading about the dichotomies right now, but i'll try to find the time to sit down and come up with an equally thoughtful response soon. i'm always worried that i won't be able to cover everything if i rush. it takes me a while to put my thoughts into words.

[Eliza Thomason]

@Eliza Thomason wow, thank you for that thoughtful response. i'm in the middle of reading about the dichotomies right now, but i'll try to find the time to sit down and come up with an equally thoughtful response soon. i'm always worried that i won't be able to cover everything if i rush. it takes me a while to put my thoughts into words. =p

Take as long as you want! I am in the middle of big things around here, and starting to wonder how much time I really have to be on the forum between now and the New Year. At least I know that I will be offline for Advent. I need to start un-involving my mind here now, so its not a big adjustment. So take your time. I will be checking back from time to time and I think its best to write when you feel like it. So do take your time. I'll see what you write back eventually. Dichotomies are interesting! See on my avatar? "Seriously judicious emotivist" - that's us. Also aristocratic, and other things.

[Pallas]

@thehotelambush No, it's not... Why are we typing by individual functions now? Go look up some EIE authors (hint: there are a boatload of them) please to see what their writing style is. What he said is more typical of LIE (not a common type for authors, as I can't think of a single one currently). (Also, as far as VS types go, people really like ESE and seemingly to a lesser extent IEI authors generally.)

[Exodus]

@thehotelambush No, it's not... Why are we typing by individual functions now? Go look up some EIE authors (hint: there are a boatload of them) please to see what their writing style is. What he said is more typical of LIE (not a common type for authors, as I can't think of a single one currently). (Also, as far as VS types go, people really like ESE and seemingly to a lesser extent IEI authors generally.)

Typing by Model A is the strongest way to type. You have to distinguish between the core, solid parts of the theory and what is a more recent hypothesis. Cognitive styles are one of Gulenko's more recent hypotheses and while they might be an interesting idea, frankly I think they're crap for typing people.

That being said, some things he said sound more like a Gamma extrovert. But if he is LIE I would expect him to have an easier time organizing his thoughts. This is about strength in , not "vortical-synergetic" thinking.

[Pallas]

@thehotelambush Yes, but the problem there is with just functions, things start to get so vague that it's hard to type anyone. Even people like Filatova have type descriptions where most(!) of the traits of a type don't seem to directly come from just the individial IEs, yet different authors also tend to agree on these things. I'm not just going to stick with the most primitive form of a theory because people are scared of doing things differently.

[Exodus]

@thehotelambush Yes, but the problem there is with just functions, things start to get so vague that it's hard to type anyone.

They really don't. It's hard to type people in general, so if you don't realize that you're just kidding yourself. Arguably Jungian dichotomies are the most "primitive" aspect of the theory, because they come from Jung and were emphasized heavily in the early days of socionics (although Model A was also used). This is the paradigm that Filatova and most Russian socionists have stuck to until now. But Rick DeLong and most of the knowledgeable English-speaking socionists have come to the conclusion that the IM elements and functions are really the fundamental basis of the theory.

But, Gulenko's theories are a whole different thing. They are speculative and don't really connect up with Model A OR Jungian traits -- they seem pulled out of nowhere. Let's please stop spreading the idiotic idea that they are somehow more acceptable than Model A.

[Pallas]

I'm not trying to spread the idea of them being more acceptable, I just use them myself because they seem to support my real-life observations. I'm some sort of weird outsider anyways so if anything I'm making them seem less ​acceptable by using them.

[Exodus]

I'm not trying to spread the idea of them being more acceptable, I just use them myself because they seem to support my real-life observations. I'm some sort of weird outsider anyways so if anything I'm making them seem less ​acceptable by using them.

Ok, in that case you can stop say things like

@thehotelambush No, it's not... Why are we typing by individual functions now?

[Pallas]

@thehotelambush Well, typing by individual functions and using Gulenko's stuff are not the only two options... I think the classic Jungian dichotomy way (a la Filatova) gives pretty good results, it just doesn't have enough depth for my taste. Just using individual functions is just really sort of reductionistic and oversimplifies people. Anglophones generally tend to be on the forefront of excessive reductionism and oversimplification though, so I'm not all that surprised.

[wasp]

That being said, some things he said sound more like a Gamma extrovert. But if he is LIE I would expect him to have an easier time organizing his thoughts. This is about strength in , not "vortical-synergetic" thinking.

just a quick question - what about my posts give off extroverted gamma vibes?

i'm the epitome of lazy, competitive environments (and conflict of any kind) make me extremely anxious, as i severely underestimate my own skills and overestimate my opponent's skills, and i'm averse to hard-work and prone to taking potentially detrimental shortcuts. however, i relate heavily to *the complex of tied hands and i crack down hard on those whom i deem amoral or guilty of a serious moral offense, but doing so often causes me great psychological discomfort. it's like i'm giving up my peace of mind in the name of doing the right thing, and it's not always worth it. mostly because i know i don't have any accomplishments to speak of. i used to, but not anymore.

i just reread the complex of tied hands and it turns out there's more similarities than i originally thought. there's also a line in there about LIEs and how, when in a demobilized or depressed state, they inadvertently become leaches. also, i've never hit anyone but the thought has definitely crossed my mind. there are two reasons why i don't act on those impulses. one being that i don't want to give others the wrong impression (namely, i don't want to scare them) and two, i'd feel a tremendous amount of guilt afterwards. i'm very forgiving when i'm healthy, though. i also feel that i'm way too lax, slow-moving, and anti-materialism to fit into this quadra, even if i'm at my best when i'm doing productive shit.


* http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya

There is nothing more dangerous and scary for another person (particularly a conflictor) than to put Gamma Quadra types in conditions of involuntary unemployment and at the same time accuse them of being inadequate and insolvent, call them idlers and losers, blame them for failing to constructively apply themselves. For these kind of offense Gamma Quadra feel themselves in full right to spontaneously avenge themselves and make short work out of their abuser. Gamma Quadra types (especially, sensing ones, SEE and ESI) immediately lose control over themselves and will undertake anything to destroy their tormentor both morally and physically. (Such abuse Gamma types won't forgive to anyone!) Gamma Quadra will put to use all of their resources, all the materials at hand (up to sharp or cutting objects), but won't let the offender get away unpunished. The desire to put one's fists to use and beat the tormentor to death (or even tear him apart with bare hands) in such moments is overwhelming, thus the attack may be very brutal and fast.

The main thing is to have one's hand untied, then (unlike in Alpha Quadra) it is not necessary to call for anyone to help: one can deal with one's opponents directly, not even opening one's mouth to say anything.

Alpha Quadra kills by word, while Gamma quadra avenges itself by action – they will take something heavy into their hands and then adequately react in response. Alpha Quadra will consider its aggression to be inappropriate and unwarranted – they will loudly yell and shout, and call for help (as here nobody will try to shut their mouth) but Gamma Quadra won't get stopped by the cries of their offenders. The important thing for Gamma types is that right now their hands are not tied – and they can act and directly deal with their opposition here and now.

Gamma Quadra types cannot do service for and before anyone ("decisive", "democratic" "objectivists"). Gamma Quadra doesn't like entering into competitions and participating in contests and pageants [i wasn't aware of this] (with the exception of the hungry for a venture, risk-taker and hot-tempered "player" LIE, who is easily drawn into contention) – they are afraid of accidents, which may interfere with their own creative self-realization (as a consequence of the repressed aspect of "intuition of potential"). Independent creative constructive work and being fully answerable before oneself and one's own self-interest – is for them the preferred option and course of action.

Gamma types are very demanding towards themselves, yet they poorly endure external control and supervision over them and their work. They can't stand having to report before someone. (Especially before idle, curious strangers.) If close relatives or friends of the Gamma Quadra turn into "unbearably meddlesome fans", strictly control them, discuss their actions and work at every turn, create a frenzied hype, during which they inadvertently displace them from the sphere of personal and professional interests, Gamma Quadra may break off relations even with them: the interests of activity/business are above all.

[Exodus]

just a quick question - what about my posts give off extroverted gamma vibes?

Actually, I take that back. I'm not sure what I was thinking.

i'm the epitome of lazy, competitive environments (and conflict of any kind) make me extremely anxious, as i severely underestimate my own skills and overestimate my opponent's skills, and i'm averse to hard-work and prone to taking potentially detrimental shortcuts. however, i relate heavily to *the complex of tied hands and i crack down hard on those whom i deem amoral or guilty of a serious moral offense, but doing so often causes me great psychological discomfort. it's like i'm giving up my peace of mind in the name of doing the right thing, and it's not always worth it. mostly because i know i don't have any accomplishments to speak of. i used to, but not anymore.

Yes that doesn't sound Gamma extrovert at all, or extroverted really. Cracking down on the "amoral" could be either FiSe or TiSe.

i just reread the complex of tied hands and it turns out there's more similarities than i originally thought. there's also a line in there about LIEs and how, when in a demobilized or depressed state, they inadvertently become leaches. also, i've never hit anyone but the thought has definitely crossed my mind. there are two reasons why i don't act on those impulses. one being that i don't want to give others the wrong impression (namely, i don't want to scare them) and two, i'd feel a tremendous amount of guilt afterwards. i'm very forgiving when i'm healthy, though. i also feel that i'm way too lax, slow-moving, and anti-materialism to fit into this quadra, even if i'm at my best when i'm doing productive shit.

I do not recommend using Stratiyevskaya's quadra complexes to type yourself...they're sort of a mixed bag.

[wasp]

@thehotelambush haha yeah, i was a little confused by the comparison. how do you feel about beskova's gender-specific type portraits? because i don't relate to the female ESI portrait one bit, aside from a few paragraphs here and there. i relate more to the LSI female portrait but even that makes me go "wait, what?" at times.

[Exodus]

@thehotelambush haha yeah, i was a little confused by the comparison. how do you feel about beskova's gender-specific type portraits? because i don't relate to the female ESI portrait one bit, aside from a few paragraphs here and there. i relate more to the LSI female portrait but even that makes me go "wait, what?" at times.

I haven't really looked at them, I don't really see much need for type descriptions. Why ESI and LSI though?

[wasp]

I haven't really looked at them, I don't really see much need for type descriptions. Why ESI and LSI though?

because you said that cracking down on the amoral could be either FiSe or TiSe.

[Exodus]

because you said that cracking down on the amoral could be either FiSe or TiSe.

Ah ok...I don't think those types are likely though, more in the sense of the superid functions.