Dorito or stop sign?

[Grendel]

am i napoleon or huxley


tell me what i am pls


pls specify why

[Chae]

No idea but the witty title fascinates me.

Which probably means: Ne!
...I'll vote Huxley.

[chrys]

Such a cute thread. Um, out of the choices, IEE. But do you really have 4D Fe? I wouldn't know... I can't even tell what it is in myself, I must just be a natural at it. I do believe you've got at least 2D Fi, the way you converse gives a very introspective feel at the very least like you do prioritize your inner experience over trying to fit in where it doesn't seem natural. But at the same time you seem way to have a more than basic grasp of knowing how to defend yourself argumentatively and pay attention to whether or not what a person is saying isn't bullshit, though anyone could be proficient with that given enough practice I suppose. It's just that with Ti polrs there seems to be, even by my own standards, one too many loopholes and fallacies in the way they try to convince me of something.. would this be attributed to living in Southern California where people party instead of learn mental skills? I wonder how you feel about your Te though. Also I would think you're intuitive the way you speak, being more allusive than being more blunt and straightforward (not desiring effect as much as meaning?)



edit: sorry I always add stuff after people reply x3 i just throw out there the next relevant thought in my head after I get at least one idea down...

[Grendel]

But do you really have 4D Fe/1D Ti? I wouldn't know... I can't even tell what it is in myself, I must just be a natural at it.

Dimensions aside, I thought there was a difference between Id and Ego functions -- an -lead might feel more compelled to abide by the social norms of , but a -Demonstrative might only appeal to it when it benefits him -- the Demonstrative being a "Secondary Weapon" to the Creative, if you will. I'll express emotions if stressed, but as you've seen I care less about the social atmosphere for its own sake. And I definitely don't value Ti+.

I could be wrong though.

[Pallas]

Could be wrong though, I feel like I'm being passive-aggressive even as I type this.

You probably are, and you definitely are. ILE.

[Grendel]

ILE.

[maximum passive-aggression]

wy tho

[/maximum passive aggression]

I do believe you've got at least 2D Fi, the way you converse gives a very introspective feel at the very least like you do prioritize your inner experience over trying to fit in where it doesn't seem natural. But at the same time you seem way to have a more than basic grasp of knowing how to defend yourself argumentatively and pay attention to whether or not what a person is saying isn't bullshit, though anyone could be proficient with that given enough practice I suppose. It's just that with Ti polrs there seems to be, even by my own standards, one too many loopholes and fallacies in the way they try to convince me of something.. would this be attributed to living in Southern California where people party instead of learn mental skills?
re intuitive the way you speak, being more allusive than being more blunt and straightforward (not desiring effect as much as meaning?)

Maybe it's because Shiver shat on me in the chatbox for expressing an innocuous opinion without being able to defend it, then put me on ignore. I can't imagine a Logical would let something like that get to them the way I still am. A -valuer would be able to defend himself too, I was just sitting there silent with no real counterargument.

I wonder how you feel about your Te though. Also I would think you'

The HA is tricky: wanting to be loved vs. wanting to understand everything.

Needless to say, I share your need to edit retroactively.

[Pallas]

@Alioth logicals have feelings too, just like ethicals can use logic. I don't see that as being what logic vs. ethics is about but then I'm a heretic. Mostly I say ILE based on quadras, Reinins, intertype relations, and all that other heretical stuff.

[Pallas]

-- an -lead might feel more compelled to abide by the social norms of , but a -Demonstrative might only appeal to it when it benefits him --

Also, I didn't have time to comment on this earlier, but I'd like to now. All of the 3D and 4D functions are beyond good and evil norms whether they're conscious or unconscious. That's what makes them 3D and 4D.

[Grendel]

bump'd


i do not care that bumping a thread does next to nothing on this subforum


i am narcissist




i demand collegiate dissertations on what i am


NOW

[ashlesha]

Hi. My thoughts have been in the ILE/IEE area but both seem a little off and it's all nebulous/vibey. Post more for fleshed out responses? Tell us a lil about yourself. Maybe you filled out a questionnaire somewhere (those don't work as well for me as natural interaction but probably wouldn't hurt).

[Grendel]

Hi. My thoughts have been in the ILE/IEE area but both seem a little off and it's all nebulous/vibey. Post more for fleshed out responses? Tell us a lil about yourself. Maybe you filled out a questionnaire somewhere (those don't work as well for me as natural interaction but probably wouldn't hurt).

I've posted this Info Elements questionnaire elsewhere but I'm under the impression I fucked it up somehow. As in I was in a pissy mood when I wrote it and some of the answers are needlessly long and/or off-topic. Maybe I'll make a new one later.

1. General to specific, specific to general – what does it mean?
I tend to take a top-down view of processes and objects, seeing their universal role and values as symbols before working out the gritty aspects of what they “are.” Some specifics (facts that I can relate to the grander scheme of things regardless of their relevance) I’m good at remembering, others (numbers, dates, acute technical information that has no distinctiveness of its own when taken out of context) not so much.



2. What does “logical” mean? What is your understanding? Do you think that it correlates with the common view?
If you describe something logically, you accurately, circumspectly, describe what it is and what it does. If you call a broken thing whole, or a whole thing broken, your description is illogical. Logical is "true" in the context of systems as opposed to facts.


3. How do you explain fractions on the dial of the clock?
What?


4. What is a rule? What rules you must to follow?
Rules are prerequisites needed for a system to function. I tend to take a uniformitarian outlook: if a rule is always true in one context when given the variables to which it applies, then it is always true everywhere even if not typically applied there; if not, I consider it a circumstantial tendency, only giving it thought within its specific context.
Come to think of it, this sounds like an object-oriented approach (the rules are defined by the objects upon which they interact rather than the context).


5. What is hierarchy? Do you need to follow it? Why or why not?
People in authority exchange the resources needed to live with other people in exchange for their service and compliance. Intrinsically, hierarchy makes my blood boil; I only follow it when I consider it necessary, whether because of coercion or for a need of the resources necessary for survival. “Order” in this world is what we make it. I feel no moral obligation to serve a greater whole. I do so only out of necessity.


6. What do you think of instructions? Do you use them? Could you write an instruction manual? If so, what type of instruction manual would you most likely write?
I usually have to see a task performed before I can do it. Alternately, I can look at a final product and try to mimic it intuitively, repeating whatever process emerged until it’s ingrained in my memory and I can mutate it to my own ends. I have trouble applying read instructions until I can just intuitively “get” how to apply these processes in real-time. It’s a mental gulf that’s caused me ample trouble.


7. Please explain: “Freedom is in complying with the laws, but not in ignoring the laws”? Do you agree with the statement? Why?
Bullshit.


8. Tell us how consistent are you?
gw65vur^&JUVew45yR^$YETDRYTe5rgh89drtyber6udtyhvd5 t^&URJ&tfg5e54frty4e5rT#$Y(E^RGTY^&Fyhjr60r5y0thj e 694y0ej65t


9. What is a “standard”? Why do people need it?
Standards are excuses for the powerful and the ambitious to spill otherwise-innocent blood. Or they’re common engineering parameters to allow interchangeability and/or interoperability, which I promote.


10. You need to put in order your home library. How do you feel about this activity? How will you approach this task?
Just do it.







1. What is work in your opinion? Why do people go to work? Are there any parameters where you can distinguish whether you can do this work or not?
Work is enjoyable if I have adequate tools, ability, and understanding to do it. It is rewarding if it produces a result you and/or society associates with a reward.
Life has conditioned me to feel more rewarded from completing work than indulging in pleasure. I probably could never motivate myself to do many of the things I look forward to doing if not for the necessity of work.


2. Is there any correlation between quality and quantity? Tell us if or how the price depends on quality?
Yes. However, I believe supply and demand also plays a role in price alongside quality. This is actually a general rule I apply to most fields, even if it’s not exactly correct to do so.


3. How do people determine the quality of work? How do you determine such quality? How well you can determine the quality of any purchase, do you pay any attention to it?
I eat the shit I am given. If I can do better myself, I just do it myself instead of counting on someone else.


4. How do you feel if you didn’t finish some work? Does it ever happen? What are the reasons?
I finish it later and hope the cost of my sloth is light. Doing things too slowly is a bigger problem for me than true procrastination.



5. What is “interesting work” for you? Please explain in detail.
Something that puts me in a natural flow state. Something I can do like a machine, something that sucks me out of my environment and puts me in perfect sync with the task. Preferably it involves minimal physical exertion, and little need for precision.


6. You go to the store and see something you’re interested in buying, there is a price tag on it. What parameters are you going to use to understand if it’s overpriced, underpriced, or priced correctly?
I don’t usually comparison shop. I feel lucky if the store carries what I want at all, or if I can even find it. Price is usually the biggie for me. I’ve been known as a cheapskate.


7. When you work and someone tells you: “You don’t do it right.” What is your reaction?
I’m struck with a massive pang of inferiority. I fawn up to my superior, then go home at the end of the day to jerk off and contemplate my worthless existence.


8. Right next to you there is a real professional. You always see that you can’t perform the way he does. Your feelings, thoughts and actions?
I suffer crushing feelings of inferiority, often enough to make me physically weak and dull my mental stamina for a while. I make sure never to acknowledge this person’s existence. I may even fantasize of harming him.


9. When you have to ask someone else to help you with the task, how do you feel?
I vehemently resisted this in younger years. Now, it doesn’t faze me at all. My pride has deflated out of sheer necessity.


10. You need to build a pyramid, exactly like in Egypt. Your thoughts, feelings and actions?
I’d need to make observations and measurements of as many Egyptian pyramids as possible first. I would also need to understand the purpose of building the pyramid, all the specs required, the materials I’d need, and what kind of power and tools I’d need to execute it. I would probably have to take into account the varying conditions between the locations of the actual pyramids and the construction site as well, so I can know what needs to be changed based upon weather for example.





1. Tell us what is beauty? Do you change your opinion about beauty? Does your understanding correlate with the generally accepted notion? What goes beyond the generally accepted notion?
Beauty is a subjective sense of appealing physical features based upon other mental associations. I believe that my standard of beauty far deviates from cultural norms, since I’m very distant from cultural norms in the first place.


2. Describe, please, your understanding of a beautifully dressed man or a woman. What is the core of beauty? How do you explain what is beautiful to a person who has never heard about beauty before?
I usually prefer appearance that are rounded-out and balanced with themselves, but also offensive and “reaching out,” like projecting something the onlooker can’t ignore. This must also be balanced with a sense of internal perfection, that every aspect either interacts with or juxtaposes against every other aspect well.
Physically I tend to prefer features and designs that are more assertive and deliberate over the passive or subtle, and angular features over curved or meandering ones.


3. Is there a template of understanding what beautiful means for everyone to use? Is there such a term as “classical beauty”? If so, what is it?
Classical beauty is one standard. Whether or not beauty is defined biologically is irrelevant because even genetics can change; aesthetics, like all other tastes, are subjective.


4. What is comfort? What is coziness? How do you create your comfort and coziness? How do others evaluate your skill in doing so? Do you agree with them?
Comfort is about being in one’s inner sanctum, a space furnished according to his own “element.”


5. How do you pick your own clothes? Do you follow fashion? Why? Do you know how to select clothes for different types of figures?
I put on whatever’s clean. Weather is a bigger factor in my clothing choices.


6. How do you cook? Do you follow recipes? What others think about your skill?
I just fry eggs or heat something out of a can. The few times I’ve had to actually cook or prepared food, I’ve been told I’m good at it, and I’d agree with this.


7. Are you good at color patterns and mixing them and matching?
I think so, but I wouldn’t know.


8. If someone is telling you what is beautiful and what is not, what goes with what color and what is not, do you agree with this person?
I take it as a matter of subjective opinion. It is foolish to seek any objectivity in what really boils down to personal preference.


9. Tell us how you’d design any room, house or an office. Do you do it yourself or trust someone else to do it? Why?
I might make a sketch and some specifications of what the final design is to look like, but I’d have others do the physical work.


10. How do you know if a person has bad taste? Could you give us an example? Do you always trust your own taste or do you seek opinions from others?
Taste is subjective.





1. Can you line up human resources and make them do things? What methods do you use? Can you press people? If so, how does it happen?
No. My attempts to “pressure” them are taken as signs of weakness. Usually I’m the first to mobilize myself and my physical resources, but never others. No one listens to me.



2. What is incursion? How do you deal with this? Can you repulse? How easy can you do it?
I find it extremely difficult to defend myself. I exert as much force as I have to offer to repel it, but it’s rarely enough to protect me. Less to do with my personality and more to do with my own incompetence. I’m extremely aggressive by nature, but consistent failure has conditioned this away a bit.

3. What does “my people” and “strangers” mean? When do “my people” become “strangers” and why?
I am a stranger to all. Those who claim to “like” me were simply forced to tolerate me over time – all the better for me. I see every new stranger as one who might have become kindred, but by circumstance had to become my enemy by virtue of encroaching upon me.


4. Are there strategies of attack? Can you use them? When is it justified?
Usually I just run in like a screaming barbarian, with the same old tactics I’ve always used.


5. Do you think it’s ok to occupy someone else’s territory? In what situations?
I’m more often than not forced onto it. Rarely do I want to be. I prefer being in my own territory, where I’m free to enjoy myself without anyone saying anything about it.


6. What are the methods of volitional force? When is it most effective and in what situations?
Running in screaming with no regard for my own life, which usually fails because I’m weak af.


7. How do you protect yourself and your interests?
Run and hide. Pick up the pieces and start again elsewhere. My strength is rarely enough to repel any attack.


8. Describe to us your behavior in the situations of opposition and if you have to use some force?
I generally panic. I look like a Chihuahua going rabid when I try to display “force.” My fury is unmitigated, almost sociopathic, but it’s all lost when channeled through the frailty of my body and the chaos of my mind. It seems panic lies at the root of everything I do.


9. Do others think of you as a strong person? Do you think you are a strong person?
Absolutely not.



10. How do you understand if a person is strong? Are there any signs of a strong person? What is the core of any force? Why do people listen to one person, but not the other?
The strong do not need to collaborate as much as the weak do. I’m grateful that the strong mostly leave me alone.





1. What is boorishness? Does your understanding of it correlate with the generally accepted notion? How would you explain to a 10 year old child what boorishness means?How would you explain the same to an adult who does not behave ethically?
Boorishness is when you project your own perception of the world onto new information that you are given – that is, hearing only what you want to hear instead of keeping your mind open to new factors. Boorishness is taking what is not yours by force.


2. How would you improve the moral of the society?
Keep anyone from trying to change it, or believing that the world belongs to them. The world is all of ours. That’s why we have society – to prevent thievery of the weak by the strong.


3. Can you justify somebody’s bad behavior by thinking that he/she wasn’t taught how to do so?
Absolutely.


4. Give us your understanding of love. Can you love and punish at the same time?
I don’t believe I feel love. Sure, certain sexual cues excite me, but I often react to them with the same type of excitement you feel when petting a cute dog – a feeling that actually stems from the urge to kill. I feel a deeper, much subtler but more overpowering feeling when I see someone else express traits I see in myself, but these are so rare that I usually only feel this way over fictional characters.


5. Have you heard about the Southern hospitality? Everything is for the guest. There is also a German hospitality – the master of the house is always right. What method is the right one? Try to evaluate without the weight of any cultural aspects, traditions, nations etc.
The latter doesn’t sound much like “hospitality” as I know it. But it makes perfect sense for the house’s owner to know what’s best, given it’s his inner sanctum. I never particularly liked the feeling that my host was busting his ass for my comfort, mainly because even I don’t fully know what comforts me. The comfort of one doesn't merit the exhaustion of another.


6. What is sympathy? When do you need to express it? When is it advised not to?
The average person is so seamlessly stoic that I’ve forgotten what it’s like to see someone other than myself in pain. A sense of security has displaced all my sympathy when I see anyone vulnerable or in pain.


7. Are there any norms of behavior in the society? Do you follow them? Do people always have to follow them? Why?
Society is Cronus, I am Zeus. They birthed me, they swallowed me, I dethrone them.
Social norms are too coercive. We make laws so that people and institutions do not violate people; beyond that, you can behave however you want, all at the risk of how individuals react to you. But it is not society’s job to police what is acceptable and what is not. Society is fluid. A trend should either die of its own accord, linger on in the background, or displace the current norms; it is not our place to condemn a behavior if it does not violate the rights of others. The minute you begin to treat society as a single animal – rather than a de facto collection of parts that happen to work together – all semblance of freedom dies.


8. How do you know what attitude among people is right or wrong?
I believe what I believe, they what they believe. The only time systems of ethos need to converge is when it comes to the rights of individuals and how to protect them from violation. I am very in favor of Positive freedom, however it cannot exist until there is a solid foundation of Negative freedom.


9 . What does moral mean? What is immoral? Does your understanding correlate with the others? How can you evaluate the correctness of your own understanding?
Again, it varies between ethical systems. I guess I consider the intrinsic value of any human life to be the most valuable part of the kernels of ethical systems throughout different societies. Take away one man’s humanity, take away the purpose of all societies that ever existed.


10. Somebody is giving you a negative attitude – what is your reaction? Could you show your own negative attitude toward someone else? If so, how? Could you give a person the silent treatment? How easily do you forgive people?
Depending upon the subtlety, I’ll either give it zero thought whatsoever, or I’ll leave the interaction hating them for it and seethe.





1. "Whole world does not cost one tear of child" – how do you understand this phrase? Do you agree with this opinion?
Letting millions die by inaction is better than causing one death by action. Basically Deontological thinking. Not saying I agree or disagree, that’s just what it sounds like.

2. Is it acceptable to express emotions? Give examples of inappropriate expression of emotions.
Mine would never be considered “acceptable.” I find it extremely difficult to keep them from escaping.


3. Can you use negative emotions? In what situations?
I can unleash them with ease, but it’s never calculated. I can bitch and whine because I’m either bored, or I feel isolated and nothing I do ever gets me noticed. Rage is probably the single most powerful feeling I show, but I don’t think people take me seriously once they see it. Rule of thumb: people care more about shutting me up and restoring their precious harmony than they do about the good of a couple of outliers.


4. How do you express negative emotions? What does it look like? What do others think about it?
The people closest to me can tell something’s wrong, even if I try to conceal it around them. I think some of my traits make it much harder for a stranger to read me than these people, but I could be wrong. If I’m distraught, I’ll vent by shitposting cancerously. Anger can sometimes be an energy source, unless the state of my mind prevents me from effectively channeling it into work; it’s much more reliable when the work requires more brute-forcing than searching for options or creative problem-solving.
I have zero chill.


5. Shallow emotions – what does it mean? Are there any other emotions?
It’s the difference between yelling at the waiter because your drink was too cold, and running home crying because your life’s hopes and dreams were shattered. Anyone who still places any value whatsoever in the former has never suffered. Frivolous feelings don’t deserve protection.


6. What are right or wrong emotions?
No emotion is right or wrong, the circumstances are just wrong to you. Fuck what anyone else thinks.


7. Can you change the emotional state of yourself? Of others? To what side – positive or negative?
No. The emotional state changes me. I can barely understand how my own emotions work, let alone control those of others.


8. What does it mean to “pour out your emotions”? How does it happen?
Look no further than the verbosity of some of these answers.



9. Does your internal emotional state correlate with what you show externally?
I don’t have good control over what I show externally. I think I express fear and rage more starkly than anything else, especially considering these are the things I most intensely feel. I don’t give off any emotional cues if I’m enjoying myself or excited. Only the negative stuff.


10. Do you track what mood you are in throughout the day? Do you notice the mood of others?
I can keep track of mine well enough. I only pay attention to the mood of a specific few others. These people do seem to express it more starkly. But this could just be me.







1. Do you like surprises?
Usually, but they’re so rare these days.


2. Tell us how people change? How do you feel about those changes? Can others see the changes?
People and their behavior completely escape me. I tend to view them as input/output devices to their experiences, with events of more significant “energy” leaving more lasting impressions (especially when they make their marks earlier). People both never change and constantly change: they spawn from the same handful of motivations and desires, but the contortions of time shape their desires into barely recognizable ones.


3. Is it true that whatever happens is only for the best?
No, that’s confirmation bias, combined with an application of the Pathetic Fallacy to probability itself.


4. What do you think of horoscopes, fortune telling etc.? Do you believe in luck, lucky fortuity?
More Pathetic Fallacy bullshit. Kill it with fire.


5. Can you forecast events? Is it even real?
No.


6. What is time? How do you feel time? Can you “kill” time? How?







7. Is it easy for you to wait for some important event? What if you don’t know when it is supposed to happen?
If it’s rewarding enough and it’s absolutely guaranteed, I’ll wait indefinitely for it. I only grow antsy if I get the impression that nothing will ever change. I cannot deal with feelings of imprisonment for long.


8. Do you need help creating forecasts and determining how something will end? Do you trust those forecasts?
No.


9. Are you normally late? How do you react if someone is late?
I usually leave home for daily events at what I perceive to be the last possible moment before I’ll arrive late. If someone doesn’t show up on time, I’ll become suspicious that they stood me up, but I don’t truly think less of them for it, just so that they arrive at all.


10. Imagine the situation where you agreed to meet with someone. Your feelings and actions: a) 20 minutes before the meeting starts, b) 5 minutes before the meeting starts, c) it is time for the meeting to start, but the person is not here, d) 20 minutes after the meeting start time and the person is not here, e) more time and the person is still not here…
A) My smelly neckbeard self, hastily doused in deodorant and an ineffective shower, heads to the lobby and sits down, where he plays a mobile game on his cell for 10 minutes waiting for the boss to arrive. B) Still sitting, waiting for this person to come. C) Wait a bit longer. D) After about 5 or 10 minutes, I’d ask others in the building where this person was. Maybe I’d try to contact them if I had their information. E) By now I’d probably slink back home, disappointed.





1. Is there a meaning of life? In what? Is it the same for everybody?
The meaning of life is made, not found or given. When we began to increase our knowledge of this world, we both expanded our options on various levels and saw shifts in the human narrative. Before we can claim to understand the meaning of any existence in this universe, we must accrue all the raw knowledge we can of it, expanding our abilities as far as possible. This wouldn’t be such a pressing need if not for the looming death of both our world and the universe; even if we ascended to our highest possible state as a species and realized this world was inherently meaningless, we could still create our own meaning in the absence of one.

Hedonism will inevitably amount to might-makes-right, and humans are remarkable for being able to resist these tendencies. There is no joy in pleasure, only suffering at the dissatisfaction pleasure is heir to.

He who accepts the futility in this world simply has no desire to build anything greater. The human condition as we experience it now is a pitiful joke. If death is inevitable, then it is better to die nobly, scouring the cosmos in vain for some semblance of an answer, than to die comfortably on the same rock on which you were born.


2. What should be done so people can be happy?
People don’t want to be happy, nor do they want others to be happy. They just want to see others suffer so they can feel powerful.


3. In the situations with a lot of potential and volatility will you trust your own guts, logically calculating everything or will you ask people you trust what should be done?
The second or third option. My “gut” was an unruly oracle while I trusted it, so I’ve allowed my sense of it to languish.


4. When you meet a stranger, what can you say about him right away? How do you know what this person is all about? Does it take long to understand someone’s talents?
I’m shit with people. I get a better impression after I see them in action. If he seems standoffish and cold but seems to be acting harmoniously, I can conclude that’s just his personality; this tends to be truer of Logicals, particularly Te-valuers. I don’t usually get close enough with others to get enough information on their true personalities, so I have less information from experience to work with when attempting to read others.


5. Remember an interesting person and call out 5-6 qualities you think are interesting in him. What would make a person not interesting? Are you an interesting person? Why? What if someone calls you “boring” and “not interesting”?
Early in life I thought compulsive resistance to group harmony was the coolest trait a person could have. Being well-dressed and having your shit together was a turnoff for me up until I left high school. At this point, I’d be content to hang around anyone who accepts me and isn’t a total cunt to me.
It only dawned on me how boring I was in recent years, when I made a conscious effort to brush away as much of the crazy as I could. Before, the problem was that I was messy and deprived of energy; these problems have decreased, but they’re not gone by a longshot.


6. What opinions, from people who know you, seem: 1) fair; 2) not fair; 3) hurtful; 4) strange.
1) Guns are good. 2) Society has the right to police its norms. 3) It is okay to kill a few for the comfort of the many. 4) Shame-based fetishes are hot.



7. Do you fantasize? What kind of fantasies do you have?
No, I don’t have a very active visual imagination. Perhaps that mental skill needs practice. Delusions about reality, sure.


8. What qualities should a person have to be successful and why?
They’re in the right place at the right time. They see something they want and they take it, regardless of what anyone else says. Fortune favors the ruthless.


9. What qualities can stop a person from being successful and why?
Subjecting himself to the values of the masses. Any diversion from the final goal.


10. What is more important in life – to be a good person or be a successful one? Why? Is a good person always successful? If not, then why?
Successful. If you lose, history will forget you, and you’ll never be around to explain the virtue that fettered you from success. But if you win, you’re not obligated to explain how you won.
Bound by values that only limit their options, the righteous are naturally weaker than the immoral and are less likely to succeed; on the other hand, self-sacrifice itself is part of what defines a moral person, making success antithetical to that. Thus a truly virtuous person must be content to funnel all his strength into a losing battle, against all reason, even at the cost of his own life.

[Myst]

I've posted this Info Elements questionnaire elsewhere but I'm under the impression I fucked it up somehow. As in I was in a pissy mood when I wrote it and some of the answers are needlessly long and/or off-topic. Maybe I'll make a new one later.

Very very Ne, weak Ethics functions. Also, clearly enough Fe and Ti valuing, strong enough Ti, Fi easily PoLR. I don't have a problem with ILE.

[The Exception]

Based on the title of the thread alone, I voted IEE. But I don't know if you truly are IEE. I don't know you well enough to know your type for sure.

[Exodus]

bump'd


i do not care that bumping a thread does next to nothing on this subforum


i am narcissist




i demand collegiate dissertations on what i am


NOW

Well there's some .

[Grendel]

imma try resurrect this since i have a slightly greater reputation here now

[niffer]

no, just close it m8. ILE.

[Grendel]

no, just close it m8. ILE.

I demand logickz as to why I'm logickz.

[The Reality Denialist]

Can you expose your existence in some form of video encoding uploaded to Youtube for example (no adult sites, please)?

Just by reading your comments you tend to put aside Ti information. I'd exclude Ti-ego.

Do you have Napoleonic tendencies? Like you think you could lead society towards some desperate ILI vision?

I think extrtatim it is anyways.

[Grendel]

Can you expose your existence in some form of video encoding uploaded to Youtube for example (no adult sites, please)?

I posted a VI selfie in chatbox and still got Alpha NT for some reason. May post it again.

Just by reading your comments you tend to put aside Ti information. I'd exclude Ti-ego.

Be specific. I put aside information that's vague and unsubstantiated.

Do you have Napoleonic tendencies? Like you think you could lead society towards some desperate ILI vision?

I think extrtatim it is anyways.

Maybe if I could make them listen to me. Agreed on extrotrim.

[The Reality Denialist]

It is very clear that your Fi trumps Ti. What you value seems to rule based on your writings. It is not about being bad at it. You have absorbed the system very well.
There are other SEEs who do it amazingly well and can apply it well beyond factual level.

[Grendel]

It is very clear that your Fi trumps Ti.

Examples? You're regurgitating the same thing you said in your last post. Give any kind of example or go into any level of detail to justify it, or don't bother repeating yourself at all.

What you value seems to rule based on your writings. It is not about being bad at it. You have absorbed the system very well.

Whatever information element anyone "values" will most certainly reign supreme in their writing. Come on, this sentence is like saying "it is what it is" and trying to pass it off as insight.

There are other SEEs who do it amazingly well and can apply it well beyond factual level.

Unlike some people here.

[Grendel]

So...I take it no one has any nuanced, detailed responses to offer? Nothing of substance?


Some expertise you guys have. No wonder this place is such a backwater mess.

[Nehtaro]

@Alioth this place is. But you are too I mean you've been here almost a year and you still can't type yourself? That's so cute!

[niffer]

@Alioth

You should read the post I made on Fi polr here and see if you relate:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1133859

[Grendel]

@Alioth

You should read the post I made on Fi polr here and see if you relate:
http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1133859

To the polr shit, kinda (more to the ILE than the SLE though I suspect I'm a Sensor). But I don't feel like I have a proficient handle on logic either. My thought is extremely object-oriented (save for my verbal processes which are more procedure-oriented, but I developed that very early in life) and I make countless careless mistakes due to overlooking finer details in favor of the holistic - which sounds like textbook Ti polr. Whenever I create, it's experimenting with methods that others have developed, or shoehorning tried-and-true methods into my own creative process, never my own genesis of a new logical idea.

Also I identify more with this guy's description of Te than of Ti. I'm very results-oriented when it comes to projects, to the point of rarely starting a new project of my own accord unless I'm fairly certain my efforts will come to fruition:

And it also seems like you're seeing my apparent emotional ineptitude and immediately linking it to a perceived polr instead of looking at other features in the context, which I think is a common confounding factor and an elephant in the room of sorts in peoples' typings of me - probably why I'm not getting a lot of fleshed-out answers either.

@Alioth this place is. But you are too I mean you've been here almost a year and you still can't type yourself? That's so cute!

No one can accurately type himself. You need outsiders to evaluate you objectively, otherwise your own mental biases, some of which you may be unaware, will muddy your evaluation.

[flames]

ILE /end

[niffer]

@Alioth It doesn't matter how much other people say or how much logic and reason gets spoonfed to you. At the end of the day, you with all of your mental biases will have the final say. So if you want to get to the bottom of it faster, I suggest you train your thinking to get through it now, not endlessly request for the help of others. Otherwise you'll be like people who have been here since 2005 who still feel the need to waffle on their typing.

[Exodus]

From what I have seen your posts tend to go for shock value, like you said: "I instantly create a slew of enemies upon entering the arena. I don't even need to say or do anything either, it just happens the instant I step in."

This strongly suggests an Se valuing type, and probably Beta.

[niffer]

@thehotelambush Seriously? This is a really superficial and stereotypical way of typing. Is that something you've seen me, and most of the other Se egos on this forum say? Care to pull up a quote if you think that's the case?

Have you ever talked to Alioth 1-1, or even in the shoutbox?

*Glares at your join date*

[niffer]

@Singularity always on the ready to reinforce stupidity I see. You my friend can't even say you have a solid understanding of the IEs.

[Eliza Thomason]

am i napoleon or huxley


tell me what i am pls


pls specify why

Stop sign. Because the question is a put in a Se way - what the symbol for the type looks like, externally, vs. a Ne, which would give you ideas and theories about how the type(s) operate. (@Chae - yes, its witty, and appealing to us as something "new", and we appreciate new and different, but Se's wit more likely to be based on external realities than internal ideas).

[niffer]

^ @Alioth I reiterate, you are going to need to learn the system yourself and also think for yourself on here. In requesting forum members participate, you're just going to receive more misguided bullshit to sort through than anything truly helpful. You're asking for something impossible here, which is for people to be rational. You'll be practicing introspection more and learning something from it. Don't be lazy.

[Pallas]

"Dorito or stop sign" is Alpha "infantile" humor in trying to be clever about what the symbols look like () while not taking them seriously at all as a source of humor (). It doesn't match Delta humor obviously since Delta has rather different quadra values, never mind all the differing Reinins of the different individual types just due to changing the creative functions that accompany the lead (Process vs. Result, Positivist vs. Negativist, Constructivist vs. Emotivist etc.). This is why I have the whole "do IEs exist?" thing.

From what I have seen your posts tend to go for shock value, like you said: "I instantly create a slew of enemies upon entering the arena. I don't even need to say or do anything either, it just happens the instant I step in."

Role . He mostly values being witty and comical for no particular identifiable reason, and "slew of enemies upon entering the arena" is an extremely light and whimsical thing to say (Judicious, Merry, Democratic). These two lines come off as Alpha as it gets, really, if you've heard Alphas talk. The last sentence could just as easily come from an SEI or ESE as an ILE or LII, but I don't think you'd hear any of the self-identified Betas, Gammas, or Deltas on this forum word things quite like that even if they're expressing the same sentiment.

[niffer]

I don't think you'd hear any of the self-identified Betas, Gammas, or Deltas on this forum word things quite like that even if they're expressing the same sentiment.

Exactly.

[Chae]

@Wyrd I agree, the title itself is quite an indicator. Sounds eerily like something I'd come up with I would've called them nacho or bagel.

[Raver]

Ne-ILE for Alioth IMO. I notice a strong similarity between me and him in mindset and general beliefs. However, his logic is definitely too strong for him to be an ethical type. At least compared to myself and other IEEs.

[Grendel]

From what I have seen your posts tend to go for shock value, like you said: "I instantly create a slew of enemies upon entering the arena. I don't even need to say or do anything either, it just happens the instant I step in."

This isn't humor. That's probably the most objective way I can describe what I'm actually experiencing. If people treated me better I wouldn't feel the need to highlight it. I do not need to open my mouth, I do not need to step in anyone's way, they just feel my vibe in the air like irrepressible rays of gamma radiation and instantly despise me for it.


I could rattle out a million analogies to try and nail the general idea into your head, but perhaps it's wasted on you if you're going to construe my real experiences as some tryhard edgelord's attempts at poetry. It's a very real struggle for me and I reserve every right to bitch about it until it somehow ceases.

Role . He mostly values being witty and comical for no particular identifiable reason

If you must know...the "reason" I do this is often because it's the best contribution I feel confident to make.

and "slew of enemies upon entering the arena" is an extremely light and whimsical thing to say (Judicious, Merry, Democratic). These two lines come off as Alpha as it gets, really, if you've heard Alphas talk. The last sentence could just as easily come from an SEI or ESE as an ILE or LII, but I don't think you'd hear any of the self-identified Betas, Gammas, or Deltas on this forum word things quite like that even if they're expressing the same sentiment.

Granted, there's a bit of embellishment, but the main idea to take away is that most people hate me on sight and they do a very bad job of hiding it, because even a person as inept as myself can see right through it. I can't go anywhere without somehow inspiring hatred in everyone and everything I meet for no reason I can identify. Now if you want to say tendencies conducive to this are Alphan, you may have a case, but you'd be hard-pressed to say I'm pulling my perception of this out of my ass. Because that's basically how I go from day to day. And it's hell.

[niffer]

@Alioth you make everyone want to stroke your hair and hold you to their chest in a hover hug.

You should read some of Avalonia's posts in this thread. He's LII. His style of writing and expression of his emotional state sounds a lot like yours: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ith-Depression

except you're being a million times more annoying because you're being so stubborn and demanding, omfg.

[Eliza Thomason]

Alioth, I am not finding you annoying at all. Maybe when you consider types you could consider that at least one SLE finds you annoying and at least one IEE does not. Because we are all highly annoying to some types, and comfortable or amazing to others... Probably most people do not hate you on sight, either. Your world just might be overpopulated with types that view your type that way, and when you think about it, you realize there are people in your life who don't react to you that way.

Also, The Psychologist says that when you have unresolved issues with key people from your younger years, you can seek out approval/friendship with the same types to resolve the issues... (so you keep that difficult person in your life, vicariously).

Sometimes you even MARRY that type. I have seen this too much!

[niffer]

Also, The Psychologist says that when you have unresolved issues with key people from your younger years, you can seek out approval/friendship with the same types to resolve the issues... (so you keep that difficult person in your life, vicariously).

Sometimes you even MARRY that type. I have seen this too much!

That's just you in your approach to this thread right now Eliza--don't project your status onto others. Just send a demon unto me why don't you.