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Thread: Enneagram Type 2 thread

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    Default Enneagram Type 2 thread

    one of the least popular and the least understood types

    I'm starting this thread is for related pictures & videos

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    There seriously was no e2 input before? </3

    I'll become a resident of this thread, a lot of my general favourites in life are 2w3.



    Translation:

    Never trust the dogs that are with you only when you offer them something to eat. Trust the lions that are by your side even when they're hungry.
    Last edited by Chae; 10-03-2016 at 09:17 AM.
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    Byron Katie, a 2 herself.











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    Remembered another quote of a 2, it went like this:

    "Erase all the worries hidden behind your smile, until something good happens."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milo View Post
    The trope is interesting because it links being good with being saved by a man. Misogynist Disney logic.

    Enneagram 2 the type to save someone ELSE while getting destroyed by that

    I rephrase the quote to restore the value of these characters:

    "The evil queens are the princesses that saved everyone but themselves."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    The trope is interesting because it links being good with being saved by a man. Misogynist Disney logic.

    Enneagram 2 the type to save someone ELSE while getting destroyed by that

    I rephrase the quote to restore the value of these characters:

    "The evil queens are the princesses that saved everyone but themselves."
    I read this quote in a gender neutral ego dystonic voice as "never saved by themselves". It doesn't have to imply a male figure imo; the savior could be anyone or anything: their closest friends, their family, their social milieu, and finally themselves, which for 2s is in the key of standing up for their own needs instead of continuing to be in the service of others.

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    Ayy @Milo, fair enough :3

    Here's more e2 inspiration











    ://











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    Some more e2-themed quotes.











    (e8 integration)
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    Let go of a precise outcome and love all. Act when you need to for a goal, but then let go and enjoy all the blessings in your day!

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    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     






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    SX 2

    (Laurent Wolf - No Stress)

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    "Love yourself enough
    so you don't have to depend on someone else
    to make you feel loved."


    - For my cherished 2w3 So/Sx.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milo View Post
    one of the least popular and the least understood types
    That's because Type 2s are basically just described as literal narcissists

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verbrannte View Post
    That's because Type 2s are basically just described as literal narcissists
    That depends on their place on the spectrum of health levels and - where exactly have they been universally described like this?

    I don't think that they are so unpopular as well. Just in theory, but not in real life Quite the contrary is the case, given that their greatest talent and drive is making others love them. Their entire life revolves around interpersonal compassion. Quick test: Which enneagram type would come to mind when asking: "Who would win a popularity contest at school?" E2>E7>E3>E6>E9>E8>E1>E4>E5.

    Least understood yes, since this type has been pigeonholed quickly as the mom or narcissist as you pinpointed it. The true narcissist is E3 though. As an awesome 3 myself I can write you an entire essay about that (case in point), and I gladly shoulder this cross - just for the sake of having an image to portray That differs quite from a 2 who would outsource their "image" a lot more.
    Last edited by Chae; 01-11-2017 at 03:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    This is interesting because it's the opposite of 6...
    Quadra complexes by Stratiyevskaya: Alpha - Closed Mouth | Beta - Subservience | Gamma - Tied Hands | Delta - Clipped Wings

    Gulenko's (very good) type descriptions
    Stratiyevskaya's type descriptions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    This is interesting because it's the opposite of 6...
    The heart triad is like that in general, the person-to-person/solitary thing can be found in 3 and 4 as well. Enneagram 2 to 4 is one's identity, 5-7 is oneself within the group, 8-1 is one's independent position in society.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    This is interesting because it's the opposite of 6...
    The opposite of 6 is 6. 6 are polar opposites.

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    Last edited by Jeremy; 02-14-2017 at 09:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    The heart triad is like that in general, the person-to-person/solitary thing can be found in 3 and 4 as well. Enneagram 2 to 4 is one's identity, 5-7 is oneself within the group, 8-1 is one's independent position in society.
    Well it's interesting, because 2s and 6s are typically the "helper" types, but they go about it differently.

    I'd suppose the Heart triad ultimately think that they can rely on "love" of others. 2 is the most obvious, 3s think that they can rely on the respect and admiration from others, and 4s play the victim because they think that they will be "rescued" (loved).

    The Head triad have to rely on something more concrete for protection. 5s think that knowledge will offer them protection. 6s can't rely on themselves, so they must rely on something strong, like authorities or organizations. I'd suppose 7s have no security issues, but they didn't feel that they got or could get what they wanted?

    As a 4, I often wondered why 4s had to be "unique". I'm thinking that it has to do with their fear of being overlooked. If only they were unique enough, then they would not be looked over of their love. If they were not special or unique, then they might not receive the love that they need.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost View Post
    The opposite of 6 is 6. 6 are polar opposites.
    Well ultimately, I think 6s will have to rely on something, whether it be someone, an authority, ideologies or organizations.

    Basically someone like Trump is a magnet for 6s.
    Quadra complexes by Stratiyevskaya: Alpha - Closed Mouth | Beta - Subservience | Gamma - Tied Hands | Delta - Clipped Wings

    Gulenko's (very good) type descriptions
    Stratiyevskaya's type descriptions

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Well ultimately, I think 6s will have to rely on something, whether it be someone, an authority, ideologies or organizations.

    Basically someone like Trump is a magnet for 6s.
    Some 6s despise him because he's morally bad. 6s have a morally extreme good side and the opposite, a morally evil side.

    In Jungian psychology, "shadow" or "shadow aspect" may refer to (1) an unconscious aspect of the personality which the conscious ego does not identify in itself. Because one tends to reject or remain ignorant of the least desirable aspects of one's personality, the shadow is largely negative, or (2) the entirety of the unconscious, i.e., everything of which a person is not fully conscious. There are, however, positive aspects which may also remain hidden in one's shadow (especially in people with low self-esteem, anxieties, and false beliefs).[1] Contrary to a Freudian definition of shadow, therefore, the Jungian shadow can include everything outside the light of consciousness, and may be positive or negative. "Everyone carries a shadow," Jung wrote, "and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is."[2] It may be (in part) one's link to more primitive animal instincts,[3] which are superseded during early childhood by the conscious mind.Carl Jung stated the shadow to be the unknown dark side of the personality.[4][5] According to Jung, the shadow, in being instinctive and irrational, is prone to psychological projection, in which a perceived personal inferiority is recognised as a perceived moral deficiency in someone else. Jung writes that if these projections remain hidden, "The projection-making factor (the Shadow archetype) then has a free hand and can realize its object--if it has one--or bring about some other situation characteristic of its power."[6] These projections insulate and harm individuals by acting as a constantly thickening veil of illusion between the ego and the real world.
    From one perspective, 'the shadow...is roughly equivalent to the whole of the Freudian unconscious';[7] and Jung himself asserted that 'the result of the Freudian method of elucidation is a minute elaboration of man's shadow-side unexampled in any previous age'.[8]

    Jung also believed that "in spite of its function as a reservoir for human darkness—or perhaps because of this—the shadow is the seat of creativity";[9] so that for some, it may be, 'the dark side of his being, his sinister shadow...represents the true spirit of life as against the arid scholar.'[10]
    I read this awesome article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak..._10319848.html

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    Julia Sweeney - 2 sp/so (ESFp) - great example of Naranjo's profiling for sp 2.

    The Preservation 2 again is very different. It's more child-like. It's seduction again but it's more the seduction of a child in the presence of grown-ups, the seduction of the father, the seduction of the mother. A child is more cute, so this is a kind of cute 2. They don't look so adult ... Social 2 seems over-adult, over-ripe ... and the Sexual 2 feel like, Carmen - you know that character? [www.youtube.com/watch?v=djsuP0uta7s] Like a force of nature, wildness. But preservation 2 is like cute. We don't have time for more literal explanations ... of course, it is possible to illustrate everything through the movies ... but let me stick to the central issue here. This character was called by the psychoanalysts "infantile". Ichazo used the word expression "me - the most important". I misunderstood that for a long time. I thought it was a Napoleonic gesture: "I am the most important!" (thumps chest) - the desire for importance of an ambitious person. In the end, I came to understand that it's a child-like importance. A child wants to be loved, not for this and not for that - just because. Loved only for being, or for being who he or she is. What is prominent here is a love need. There's a naked love need. Not going through the sexualization of seduction or going through self-importance and building up yourself. There is some use in remaining little. Why would a person have a need to remain childish, to act childish? Of course there are advantages. Children are more liked than grown-ups. As we grow up, we lose points. They deserve the nicest, they haven't been contaminated so much yet. So we can pretend we are still that unadulterated child, and we get ... there can be some dramatization of that and get something from it."

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    I think these "helper"-focused descriptions are more pertinent to Sensing type 2s, especially Si-creatives. "Ambition" descriptions sound more applicable for intuitive types.


    Twos - Working With Pride
    - Tom Condon

    "Speaking at Oxford University, English politician Lord Longford was asked his views on humility. Longford advised the questioner to read his new book, which, he said, “is the finest book about humility ever written”. Entranced Twos control through pride. After rejecting their true feelings and adopting a helpful role towards others, they develop an exaggerated, compensatory idea of their value and worth. Meanwhile, Twos rationalizes their selfish motives and become simultaneously blind to the true needs of others and their uncomfortable reactions. When Twos feel rejected, needy or unloved, pride can become their most striking feature.

    When they first learn the Enneagram, some Twos balk at the notion that they are prideful since they don’t necessarily gloat, brag or preen. But pride can come out in subtle ways; a Two might talk of helping others while implying that he is indispensable. Or make himself the actual subject of the story. Here, for example, is a Two speaking of nursing a dying friend: “It mattered so much to her that I was with her. And she held on for me to be with her when she passed on. It was very hard on me. I’m not going to lie to you and say that it didn’t devastate me.”

    Another implicit expression of pride can be seen when Twos treat other full-grown adults like children, patronizing and infantilizing them, trying to evoke childlike needs so that the Two will then be needed as a nurturer. A Two explains: “When you’re always filling somebody else’s need, when you’re jumping into them, there’s something very condescending about it. The prideful idea is that other people can’t possibly take care of themselves without me.”

    Psychotherapist Ed Dunkleblau tells a related story about a woman who was one day pushing her adult son through a shopping mall in a wheelchair. She was approached by a friend who voiced his surprise, saying “I didn’t know that your son couldn’t walk.” “Of course he can walk,” she replied. “But isn’t it nice that he doesn’t have to.”

    I once watched the Twoish owner of a sandwich shop take the order of an introverted Fiveish female customer. As the woman stepped up to the counter, the owner greeted her effusively. She reacted with a downturned shrug. Next the Twoish man leaned closer and asked her solicitous questions about her order. Would she like the special sauce? The French bread was especially fresh today; wouldn’t she really prefer that to whole wheat? The woman diffidently refused everything except a plain sandwich. More urgently, the shop owner began to suggest additions to the order. The customer said “no” to potato chips, French fries and other extras until the the man came to a cookie. The Fiveish woman hesitated just slightly before refusing. Sensing an opening, the Twoish man began to insist that the woman have a cookie but she again demurred. When he brought the lunch to her table it included a cookie – for free.

    This was a power struggle. Beneath the shop owner’s effusive behavior you could feel an aggressive need that grew more desperate with each of the customer’s refusals. It was like the man was saying, “Let me give you something, or I won’t exist.”

    I had seen the shop owner in action before. Once he swooped down on a table where two friends were splitting a cookie and loudly proclaimed, “I’m sorry but you can’t share cookies in my restaurant.” Another time someone asked the Two how late the restaurant stayed open. “I close at five o’clock,” he replied. Eventually, the sandwich shop went out of business. The rumor around town was that it was because of the owner. He was so uncomfortably helpful that no one could stand it; every customer transaction was somehow about him.

    Twos can struggle with pride and develop an exaggerated, compensatory idea of their value and worth. Several exercises have proven helpful:

    Pride journals. Keep a pride journal for one month. Each week describe no fewer than three incidents – small or large – in which you reacted pridefully or in a way you suspect was prideful. Describe what you heard, thought, saw and felt when you had the prideful reaction. Then try to identify what you heard, thought, saw and felt immediately before you reacted.

    After a week, read back over the list. What do all the incidents have in common? What happened each time just before you had a prideful reaction? Was there a pang of insecurity? Were you feeling rejected or unloved? What does the rejected or unloved part of you look like? Is it an abstract image? A young child? What resource does this part of you need to have a different reaction in such situations? Do this exercise four times over the course of the month, each time reading through the entire list.

    Invoices. This exercise explores the dual nature of Twoish giving and works well with Twos who have a sense of humor and are ready for an experience that may be starkly self-revealing. The exercise has three steps:
    Step 1): Think about and then list all the important relationships in your life – present and past. Pay special attention to what you feel you have given each person.
    Step 2): Go to a stationary store and buy a book of blank business invoices.
    Step 3): Write out an invoice for every person on the list. Put a dollar amount on what you feel you are owed, or charge the person something more intangible. Each invoice must explicitly itemize what you have given to that particular person and what you feel that you are due in return. Don’t mail the invoices to the actual people but do reread them when you are done.
    If you are a Two, this exercise will unveil any ways that you unconsciously oblige or indebt your friends and help you recognize your own self-interest. If your self-interest is coming out in disguise, you risk driving friends away and defeating your desire to stay connected.

    Honesty exercise. Think of three recent times when you were helpful to someone. Write down each incident in detail remembering what you were thinking and feeling. Then write down the most flattering interpretation of your intentions and actions. Next read back over the descriptions of the situations. Now, write down the least flattering, most ruthlessly honest interpretation of your intentions and actions."



    Twos – Keys to Change
    - by Tom Condon

    "Broadly speaking, a Two’s basic life choice is to be either honestly selfish or blindly selfish. In the former case, he takes direct responsibility for meeting his own needs and giving what is left over to others – lending himself to others but giving himself to himself.

    Two’s need to be helped to develop an internal frame of reference – a stronger sense of themselves and their own needs; a better subjective sense of where they end and other people begin. This helps them maintain appropriate boundaries in intimate and significant relationships; enabling them to say “No” and comfortably pursue what they want for themselves – instead of getting it through pleasing and manipulating others.

    Two also need to learn to chunk down, appreciating details rather than being solely focused on the big picture. They need to learn to think – to use their inner visual and auditory systems more actively, and to value these systems as much as they do their kinesthetic feelings. It is also helpful for them to learn to challenge their own mind reading and develop the perceptual capacity to float above circumstances and relationships and view them from a detached position.

    Twos can be motivated to grow and change for a number of reasons among them: wanting to understand their relationships; to resolve interpersonal conflicts; to recover from a relationship in which they lost themselves; depression; feeling like they are fluctuating between high and low self-esteem. Some Twos begin to recognize how burdened they feel by having to give to others, especially if the others don’t want to be given to. One Two decided to enter therapy when she realized that she was modeling a pattern of doing whatever men wanted for her daughter.

    Presenting problems to therapists and coaches can include: physical complaints, mystery psychosomatic symptoms, social conflicts, relationship problems, a sense of rejection, depression, unresolved sexual abuse, a desire for weight loss, and fluctuations between high and low self-esteem.

    Generally good goals for change include: beginning to recognize how they reject their needs and relocate them in others; facing the shadow of their own selfishness, developing personal goals, dealing with pseudo- emotion as a signal of neglect from their inner self, discovering the body location of their true emotions and learning to be appropriately assertive. Cultivating spirituality life can also be unusually important and powerful for Twos.

    Another good goal is to recognize the difference between pseudo- feeling and genuine feeling. When Twos return to their own body and emotional location, the subjective quality of their emotions change; from histrionic and overstated to small and “reasonably” proportioned. Dramatic emotions are a sign that Twos are neglecting their inner needs.

    Twos truly care about helping others and the well-being of their chosen family, friends, or professional charges. The paradox is that to most effectively take care of others the Two has to learn to become appropriately selfish – otherwise his “help” is invariably contaminated by personal need.

    This often means discovering which specific needs he has ruled out as unacceptable. Whatever a Two compulsively wants to give to others is precisely what he needs to first give to himself. When the need to compulsively give arises, find the nearest mirror and give it to the person you see looking back at you.

    Put another way, the general goal for Twos is to be able to choose when to give. “Automatically giving to other people used to be okay – then they would like me,” a Two comments, “Now I really like to give. I don’t care if it comes back or not. That’s the real change.” Another Two echoes this: “I can now sit on the couch contentedly while others do the dishes. I’m very aware of when my helping nature gets out of hand, and I can frequently stop myself from overextending.” Another Two explains: “It’s great to be around people these days and not feel compelled to smile and manipulate them into liking me. When I want to be alone, I give that to myself. When I talk to someone, I stay in touch with my own opinions. It’s like I’ve learned where my skin ends and the air begins.”

    Counselors working with Twos may have to be attentive to their professional boundaries. A Two client could try to match your image of a good client, while unconsciously blurring the relationship’s boundaries.

    With some Two clients, it helps to cultivate a calm, direct manner, communicating that you care for the person but not necessarily for their dramas. Simply paying close attention to a Two is sometimes useful as it communicates your interest in the real person. Twos who habitually care for others may be especially thirsty to be treated the same way.

    Other Twos, however, praise counselors who are bluntly honest almost to the point of being rude. Twos are often indefinite about their own feelings and positions and a specialist who offers the Two direct feedback gives them something concrete to react to.

    Twos often have an excellent, if latent, sense of humor and they can sometimes joke about behavior that they can’t admit to directly. An unhealthy Two’s helpful self-image can be unusually at odds with reality and consciously facing that discrepancy can be difficult for them. Humor that unconsciously exposes their foibles is sometimes enjoyable and acceptable to them."
    Last edited by silke; 04-06-2017 at 05:23 AM.

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    2w3 SO/SX
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    Normal:



    Unhealthy:

    Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
    Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a history nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd

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    this image is vibing as e2


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    There's one thing that makes me happy and makes my whole life worthwhile
    And that's when I talk to my friends and get them to smile

    Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
    Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a history nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd

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    I'm trying to find 2's integration examples
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    I'm trying to find 2's integration examples
    Yeah, 2 gets a lot more written about their disintegration point than their integration one. I think 2-->4 is about acknowledging what traits they have to offer and learning to define themselves like 4s.

    I think part of the problem is that the positive points of 2 can easily sound too positive compared to the rest of the enneagram. They don't verbally ask for much and they work to be really likeable people that everyone can love? Sheesh, just sunshine and rainbows, which is... kind of the intention of Type 2, but it feels out of place with the rest of the enneagram. I feel like the natural reaction for people describing the type is to thus work from a framework of "how can I make this sound NOT great", and that's how 2 turns into the manipulative bitch type that nobody wants to be.

    Part of the reason why I gave the Pinkie Pie example was because she's an example of an obviously Type 2 character who is also a genuinely nice person.
    Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
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    The promised 2 integration example.

    Jay Gatsby, 2w3 SX/SO, is desperately driven by being loved and approved of. His one (=SX) aim: Daisy Buchanan. He stages public parties (SO) just to get to her heart, prepares everything to be needed by her in her life. In these scenes, we can see his seductive (2) and try-hard (3) facade/image slip as to become less showy but melancholic and truthful to his emotions. The tragedy being that he disintegrates just a bit later as he violently blows up at Tom Buchanan, driving Daisy away from him altogether sealing their fate.





    About Jay's core type as I've seen it elsewhere, 3 and 7.
    7 shines through because of Leonardo Dicaprio and the tritype fix. Gatsby IS hedonistically oriented (see cars, throwing shirts scene), sometimes optimistic and pain-avoidant. But he doesn't go from place to place with his SX, his affection and neediness for love is steady.
    3 doesn't seem plausible since him going to 6 (anxiety) in the movie seems to spoil everything even more rather than improve it. 3 SX/SO would've participated in the parties or would've been assertive enough to get Daisy without "luring in" which is enneagram 2's method. Tom Buchanan is more of a 3 type, out there, effective and successful, the one to have the actual assets to keep Daisy. Meanwhile, Gatsby was not successful primarily - although he fears failure so acutely, so it's his wing - but had to make things up, not only faking it (3) but mainly just wanting Daisy directly and none of the fame and fortunes because his entire life depended on her with him, the success story was bait. That's why he metaphorically died as Daisy was back to being with Tom again, she did not want him so his existence ceased to be. He has to be 2 over 3, especially because how ruinously his 8 disintegration goes about while he doesn't show 9 stress point aspects.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    mainly just wanting Daisy directly and none of the fame and fortunes because his entire life depended on her with him, the success story was bait
    Strongly disagree, at least in the book.

    The truth was that Jay Gatsby of West Egg, Long Island, sprang from his Platonic conception of himself.

    It's true, Gatsby didn't want success for its own sake. But he also didn't want Daisy herself -- not quite. Gatsby "loved" Daisy because he was obsessed with the idea of old money, and Daisy breathed old money. She was untouchable, completely vacant of the common man's world. Would throw away thousands of dollars of pearls, just out of emotionality. Surrealistic. Nothing mattered at all... Gatsby fell in love, and he fell in love hard.

    "She's got an indiscreet voice," I remarked. "It's full of--" I hesistated.
    "Her voice is full of money," he said suddenly.
    That was it. I'd never understood before. It was full of money--that was the inexhaustible charm that rose and fell in it, the jingle of it, the cymbals' song of it... high in a white palace the king's daughter, the golden girl...
    Gatsby was overwhelmingly aware of the youth and mystery that wealth imprisons and preserves, of the freshness of many clothes, and of Daisy, gleaming like silver, sand and proud above the hot struggles of the poor.
    When Gatsby reconnects with Daisy, he is terrified of destroying the past. Why? In the past Daisy was the personification of aristocracy... pure, uncomplicated by simple mortal life. And now she has children, and a husband, and things that have happened, and it's becoming uglier, and the one lifestyle that could be a refuge from reality becomes just a harsh example of it. Gatsby thought that she might now accept him into her world of uncaringness, but as the book eventually shows, you have to be born into that life. Gatsby sacrificed even his original name of James Gatz (this is why I see 3w2 for him, though he really straddles the line) to live out some kind of old world dreamlife by American means, and he never thought to put anything into himself. He saw that there was some sort of ideal out there and he tried to embody it instead of thinking for himself. When Daisy compliments him later on in the novel, she even describes him like a man in a magazine. The coolest things about Jay Gatsby were all copies.

    And then he and Daisy get into a car crash, and she gleefully lets his good name take all the blame, and he commits suicide, and she continues on in her shallow, blissful life, never troubled, never bothered. We can kind of see this coming, because Nick Carroway has helpfully played the role of the Type 6 voice of the novel. He's the one who sees the truths that Gatsby can't:

    No--Gatsby turned out all right in the end; it is what preyed on Gatsby, what foul dust floated in the wake of his dreams that temporarily closed out my interest in the abortive sorrows and short-winded elations of man.
    "I wouldn't ask too much of her," I ventured. "You can't repeat the past."
    "Can't repeat the past?" he cried incredulously. "Why of course you can!"
    Nick is probably the only person in the novel who ever understood what Gatsby really needed:

    It grew upon me that I was responsible, because no one else was interested--interested, I mean, with that intense personal interest to which every one has some vague personal right at the end.
    Then again, that quote again suggests that Gatsby straddles the line between 2 and 3. I could go either way, just not for the reasons you originally stated.
    Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
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    A 2w3 SO/SX goes Mary Poppins and strikes a more 4-ish note.

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    The reason why 2 goes to 4:


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