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Thread: Important questions. Stop changing P and J when switching between MBTI and socionics and more issues.

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    Zero's Avatar
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    Default Important questions. Stop changing P and J when switching between MBTI and socionics and more issues.

    I have seen many many people refer to MBTI istp as socionics ISTj, etc just because the first 2 functions in MBTI istp are TiSe and they translate this to ego and super-ego functions in socionics ISTj, which are TiSe but the thing is it is 100% wrong.

    Actually when you read the desceiptions you see that MBTI istj is much more similar to socionics ISTj rather than socionics ISTp.
    For example in both MBTI and socionics istp is called the artisan. In both MBTI and socionics isfj is called the guardian, entj is called the pioneer, entp is called the inventor, etc.

    Is the description of cognitice functions different in MBTI and socionics? There is this video which I don't understand: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UpjOqSuKgUI
    What is this guy trying to say? He is missing out on a lot of things.
    I am irritated. Even people who read about personality theories make this mistake. Not acceptable.

    There are these accounts on instagram specially focusing on MBTI intj and intp and posting jokes and stereotypical nonsense.
    This is dangerous for the socionics theory, it will be introduced to the majority as something stereotypical, psuedo-scientific, something like a toy. While it is not. I open my mouth to talk about socionics my friends say oh right that MBTI nonsense "which type is a better potato?" "Which type is fire, water, air, etc" as if this is horscopes.

    What should be done about this?

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    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    Official MBTI tests score in an Extroversion vs. Introversion, Sensing vs. Intuition, Thinking vs. Feeling, Perceiving vs. Judging fashion.

    I certainly agree that the J/P switch rule is a great source of potential confusion. It will make people think it is a gospel truth, when it probably isn't true. In general, a "Judging" type in MBTI is positive correlated with the Big Five trait Conscientiousness, and that if "Judging" was an official trait in Socionics (it shouldn't be, although it it is often used colloquially as an easy point of reference), then it would be correlated with that too. However, those who are new to Socionics should simply discover their types afresh, because of course each individual is not a general trend, and ideally, we should be determining types via Information Elements.

    The whole issue with the J/P switch can solely be placed at the door of Sergei Ganin at Socionics.com. Unfortunately, due to the name of the website, it naturally gets undue prominence in search engine results.
    EII-Ne
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    Seriously Judicious Emotivist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    I have always thought this switch was baseless and useful only when an MBTI person has previous mistyped himself (often from focusing on function only, not MBTI as a whole - therefore missing a LOT) - and he finds Socionics and realizes his actual type. Then he can save face with this "rule".
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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    16t Poet Laureate Wyrd's Avatar
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    Yeah. Plus, the MBTI questions (and often the actual Socionics questions on worse tests) don't actually ask about the specific functions. In Socionics you can get something entirely different than MBTI. For example, I saw a site that legitimately said "If your P function score is higher than your J function score in MBTI you're a socionics P", but 1. I always get a strong independent J score (like 70-90%) on MBTI despite my N usually being the strongest function there,and 2. on actual Socionics tests, it usually measures extraverted and introverted functions independently and then my Fe does get rated as the stronger (MBTI Fx measuring questions 1. are largely geared to Fi and 2. are often not neutrally worded, like "I make decisions based on feelings over facts"). Plus, MBTI always contradicts itself by giving me scores on the borderline of extraversion and introversion but not on the borderline of perceiving and judging, while in Socionics I tend to get high extraversion scores for whatever reason.

    Myers-Briggs people also say "Myers-Briggs traits map up with the Big Five traits" but they don't really. The Big Five traits IMO measure things that are certainly real but not culturally independent. The Big Five traits are the result of 1. underlying processes and 2. situational behavior. The test, like the MBTI tests, also measures what people value more rather than their behavior, since it asks questions like "I like going to a party over reading a book" over "I like starting conversations with others over having others start them with me."
    Last edited by Wyrd; 09-27-2016 at 11:01 PM.

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    Shiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheHiddenJack View Post
    What should be done about this?
    INQUISITION

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    those who actually care about personality theory will be smart enough to learn Socionics, understand the difference, otherwise they get bored of MBTI and learn nothing new and go on with their lives. If these people are on instagram then it seems that they are looking in the wrong place and don't actually care about learning about it as much as having fun with it I guess. And there's nothing wrong with it, it's not like these people's misinformed ideas of Socionics will ever influence anyone on this forum. Just, when someone introduces themself into the forum, ask if they have traveled from the world of instagram, and if so, then just immediately block them and- okay just be nice and try to tell them what is right. What was the original issue? o-O

    SX-9 SP-4 SX-5



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