Chae's V.I

[Hermit Soul]

@Chae: I think ILI fits you fine, both your VI and also your posts on this forum.

I don't think you are an IEI, this is how IEI looks like in their VI:

http://www.google.com.sg/imgres?imgu...kRdQ9vxJlqBBHw=


The celebrity in that pic above is an IEI. Her Fe is in full blast in this video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2yRacBj-ZY

I was watching that video and I find it hilarious how her reaction was so big in that video. If you fast forward that video to 2 minutes, the host in that video was telling her ghost stories at that part, and the IEI basically freaked out and she displays her emotions all over her body language, facial expression, and the way she acts. Her entire face turned pale, her facial expressions have that fearful look on it, she was shaking and was cowering in fear, and she even went to hide behind the other host.

But if you find yourself valuing Fe over Fi, I recommend looking into LII for your type.

That IEI typing for you is really off though. I have a difficult time seeing you as an ethical type.

[Olimpia]

The asian girl does not look or seem like an IEI to me, maybe SEI.

An IEI-Ni would not necessarily have such a wide smile in a photo.

[Chae]

@Chae: I think ILI fits you fine, both your VI and also your posts on this forum.

I don't think you are an IEI, this is how IEI looks like in their VI:

http://www.google.com.sg/imgres?imgu...kRdQ9vxJlqBBHw=


The celebrity in that pic above is an IEI. Her Fe is in full blast in this video below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2yRacBj-ZY

I was watching that video and I find it hilarious how her reaction was so big in that video. If you fast forward that video to 2 minutes, the host in that video was telling her ghost stories at that part, and the IEI basically freaked out and she displays her emotions all over her body language, facial expression, and the way she acts. Her entire face turned pale, her facial expressions have that fearful look on it, she was shaking and was cowering in fear, and she even went to hide behind the other host.

But if you find yourself valuing Fe over Fi, I recommend looking into LII for your type.

That IEI typing for you is really off though. I have a difficult time seeing you as an ethical type.

Nice input, and nah... definitely not the way I act nor comparable to the reactions that I get from others. I maintain a certain aloofness while Kimberly is very immersed in the context. Can't identify with her, I am rather sceptical about her attitude and why she makes herself so vulnerable. At 2:31 in the video, uhhh I cringed, that was too much, I closed the video right away. My reaction to the MC would have been, what the hell do you want. And also, I'd get low-key indignant because I feel disrespected when someone screams at me like that just to get a reaction for entertainment purposes.

[Chae]

The asian girl does not look or seem like an IEI to me, maybe SEI.

An IEI-Ni would not necessarily have such a wide smile in a photo.

I got the same impression, there is a lot of eagerness in her eyes and not the dreamy intuitive glance. It's visible in the second picture I think

[Chae]

Based on the pictures and the questionnaire you answered, I still cannot entirely rule out IEI.
But yes, Ni lead is the most likely.

I sent you the questionnaire I was talking about via PM.

Grazie, I'll post it asap.

[Hermit Soul]

Nice input, and nah... definitely not the way I act nor comparable to the reactions that I get from others. I maintain a certain aloofness while Kimberly is very immersed in the context. Can't identify with her, I am rather sceptical about her attitude and why she makes herself so vulnerable. At 2:31 in the video, uhhh I cringed, that was too much, I closed the video right away. My reaction to the MC would have been, what the hell do you want. And also, I'd get low-key indignant because I feel disrespected when someone screams at me like that just to get a reaction for entertainment purposes.

Interesting, I think I'm seeing some Fe PoLR in this post here, especially when you mentioned how you closed that video halfway. I think ILI seems fine for your type at the moment. I don't have Fe PoLR so I have different reaction as you when I was watching that video, I just found it funny how she reacted in such a dramatic way. It's like, her reaction was annoying yet funny at the same time. I was like....Does she have to be so dramatic in the way she expresses her emotions? I mean, if it's me in that situation and the host were to tell me a ghost story and scream at me, I wouldn't react in such a dramatic way. I'll probably just laugh and then slap the host lightly on his arms to hint to him that I'm annoyed and to stop it lol. So yeah, I find her dramatic and her reaction is really a bit too much. But at the same time, I find it hilarious that she is so transparent.

And Kimberly, I typed her as IEI-Fe actually. If she isn't an IEI-Fe, her next possible type would be EIE. But she is definitely an Se valuing type as her art style and everything is very similar to Lady Gaga who is an ESI if you actually followed her music closely. That eagerness that you saw from her eyes is actually her Fe, her feelings is directed outward toward the world rather than inward toward herself, hence, that eagerness in her eyes. Since she is the Fe subtype, she would focus more on her Fe and Se, which is reflected in the gaze of her eyes. The Ni subtype would have a more dreamy gaze. I don't think she values Si though, because Si types have a different gaze in their eyes, their gaze would come across much softer, less intense, less piercing. If you watch the video of Kimberly, you will notice that she has that typical Se gaze whenever she looks at people, the way she focuses intently on the object that she is looking at, it's like her eyes are glued to whatever she is looking at.

IEI-Ni would VI something similar to Kurt Cobain, I think. More serious, more reserved, more melancholic.

[Chae]

Thanks again for helping me out @SisOfNight, here is the second questionnaire:


1. General to specific, specific to general – what does it mean?

It's about scale and not meaning.

2. What does “logical” mean? What is your understanding? Do you think that it correlates with the common view?

Logic simply is a tool of deduction. Yes, it correlates.

3. How do you explain fractions on the dial of the clock?

To someone else, I figure? I explain it visually.

4. What is a rule? What rules you must to follow?

A rule prescribes what is right and what is wrong. Well, unfortunately, I must obey the law. The rules of grammar... not so much.

5. What is hierarchy? Do you need to follow it? Why or why not?

Hierarchy is a system based on power imbalance. I need to follow it for self-preservational reasons but I don't like it.

6. What do you think of instructions? Do you use them? Could you write an instruction manual? If so, what type of instruction manual would you most likely write?

Instructions are semi-important. I thought of an exam, following the exact instructions is crucial. But in other cases, instructions are so redundant that it hurts. Writing any kind of instruction manual would be boring and harmful to my creative mind.
7. Please explain: “Freedom is in complying with the laws, but not in ignoring the laws”? Do you agree with the statement? Why?

I don't agree, freedom is something very different in my opinion. Freedom has nothing to do with laws. Freedom is not being able to do what you want, but being happy with not actually wanting anything. That way, your freedom only depends on your mindset and not some... `law´.

8. Tell us how consistent are you?

I say that I'm consistent but that's a lie done twice. I'm not consistent at all, which tends to upset me because of my high expectations.

9. What is a “standard”? Why do people need it?

See last question, I could have said "high standards" instead of "high expectations". Well, standards regulate status. People need it to feel bad about themselves. I dislike standards.

10. You need to put in order your home library. How do you feel about this activity? How will you approach this task?

I'll need a good reason to do it, I don't like order when it doesn't serve a purpose. I'll approach the task hands-on. When I've set my mind on doing it, I am confident in getting it done quickly and efficiently and the motivation is there.

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1. What is work in your opinion? Why do people go to work? Are there any parameters where you can distinguish whether you can do this work or not?

Work is life. I'm figuratively married to it. I would die without any work to do. We work to change the world. I can do most work except hardcore physical tasks that need a lot of strength. On the other hand... I would probably train my a** off and get it done either way if I really needed to.

2. Is there any correlation between quality and quantity? Tell us if or how the price depends on quality?

Depends on the topic. High price, high quality... in an ideal case, at least.

3. How do people determine the quality of work? How do you determine such quality? How well you can determine the quality of any purchase, do you pay any attention to it?

Through value. Objective and subjective value, to be exact. Parameters need to be looked at ad hoc. I can determine it through knowledge, and yes, I pay a lot of attention to it.

4. How do you feel if you didn’t finish some work? Does it ever happen? What are the reasons?

I feel incompetent and pretty much shattered. So, of course, I don't let it happen when the task really matters to me. I like being lazy in the right context, I can leave something minor unfinished for sure, but other than that, I want to achieve something and that requires a work mindset. And that mindset can be disappointed when I don't work.

5. What is “interesting work” for you? Please explain in detail.

Every work itself is interesting, or can be made interesting. That's why I like creative jobs so much, it depends on your imagination what you'll do with it. I curated an art exhibition last summer, that fits my category. It was interesting because I could talk to the artist and observe the visitors, make translations, create room concepts and so on, the diversity itself was very appealing.

6. You go to the store and see something you’re interested in buying, there is a price tag on it. What parameters are you going to use to understand if it’s overpriced, underpriced, or priced correctly?

Easy: comparison with other products that are there and what my general experience says. I might calculate a bit, too. I also take my time and don't rush things.

7. When you work and someone tells you: “You don’t do it right.” What is your reaction?

Internally, I get angry at the person and myself and move heaven and hell to change whatever I did wrong.

8. Right next to you there is a real professional. You always see that you can’t perform the way he does. Your feelings, thoughts and actions?

JEALOUSY and an explosion of ambitious efforts to surpass not the professional but myself. If this person actually collaborates with me, I will do the same but I will compliment them and be glad.

9. When you have to ask someone else to help you with the task, how do you feel?

I feel blessed when their input is good.

10. You need to build a pyramid, exactly like in Egypt. Your thoughts, feelings and actions?

It's either:
"Why?"

or:

"Cool, a pyramid. My nerdy heart and thirst for power will be so satisfied. I'll need tons of rope, wood, and a giant ramp. No problem, I'll get that done, I will acquire a nice budget with method X. On the other hand, I'll need to hire and motivate 100,000 people..."

In both cases, I predict that nothing will happen. I mean. One Giza is enough. If I want a pompous mausoleum I'll build a temple, that's way easier.

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1. Tell us what is beauty? Do you change your opinion about beauty? Does your understanding correlate with the generally accepted notion? What goes beyond the generally accepted notion?

See other questionnaire. And no, it doesn't correlate. I see beauty as universal and not some monopoly or genetic lottery, that differs from the consensus.

2. Describe, please, your understanding of a beautifully dressed man or a woman. What is the core of beauty? How do you explain what is beautiful to a person who has never heard about beauty before?

I don't care about gender expression. Even a potato sack dress is beautiful. The core of beauty is that it's already there, that would also be the way to describe it to someone else.

3. Is there a template of understanding what beautiful means for everyone to use? Is there such a term as “classical beauty”? If so, what is it?

Yes, the one in the media. Classical beauty is defined differently in every culture.

4. What is comfort? What is coziness? How do you create your comfort and coziness? How do others evaluate your skill in doing so? Do you agree with them?

Comfort and coziness is basically the womb experience, like a cocoon you feel warm and hugged. I create this state by sleeping under my favorite blanket <3 I don't care how others evaluate it. It's my sleep, not theirs.

5. How do you pick your own clothes? Do you follow fashion? Why? Do you know how to select clothes for different types of figures?

I see what's available and put it on. I make decisions quickly. Black is my #1 choice, 70% of my wardrobe is dark and not very intricate. Style > fashion, I don't follow it at all. I know about female and male body types, that's all. I'd approach this systematically with paper and pen first. Sketch something, then look if it's good irl.

6. How do you cook? Do you follow recipes? What others think about your skill?

I cook everything Asian as it's quick and easy, no arsenal of instruments needed. A wok and chopsticks, that's it. I cook spontaneously or with a recipe depending on what ingredients are there and my mood. Others think my cooking is decent, I think it's underwhelming but that's not the point. The purpose of food is to eat it, it has to be nutritious, not delicious.

7. Are you good at color patterns and mixing them and matching?

A bit, I apply what I learned in my art classes. Contrasts, complimentary colors, color groups et cetera. My mom likes to paint and I have the same sense of color matching as her. I like all shades and patterns of red the most, they are everywhere in my room, but it's not mixed deliberately.

8. If someone is telling you what is beautiful and what is not, what goes with what color and what is not, do you agree with this person?

Nope, unless they are van Gogh 2.0.

9. Tell us how you’d design any room, house or an office. Do you do it yourself or trust someone else to do it? Why?

I like the Victorian style mixed with minimalistic elements. Lady Gaga's Bad Romance video, that type of eerie, aggressive aesthetic. I would only do it myself, I want complete control over the outcome. I envision it in detail with my fantasy, it's impossible for someone else to recreate this image even if I describe it to them. The image is set, and I know it inside and out.

10. How do you know if a person has bad taste? Could you give us an example? Do you always trust your own taste or do you seek opinions from others?

When it doesn't match mine Taste is subjective. When a person sports bright yellow and pink - I'd never wear these colors - I wouldn't say that it's bad taste just because I don't prefer it on myself. I always trust my taste.

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1. Can you line up human resources and make them do things? What methods do you use? Can you press people? If so, how does it happen?

See pyramid question above. I am the human resource that I can line up/lead best. If I had to lead, I'd try my best though, using myself as the role model of how to get it done. I also spot talents quickly and can allocate them. Pressing - subtly and diplomatically... he who sows the wind shall reap the whirlwind. Pressing stifles creativity and the worker's intrinsic motivations. Again, I am the role model. When I work passionately for a cause, those who agree will follow.

2. What is incursion? How do you deal with this? Can you repulse? How easy can you do it?

Incursion is the necessity for ascension. I deal with it calmly. Repulse and how easy it is... depends on the case.

3. What does “my people” and “strangers” mean? When do “my people” become “strangers” and why?

My people: Persons I know and like. Strangers: Persons that I don't know, liking them or not does not play a role. My people cannot become strangers even if we drift apart emotionally or geographically.

4. Are there strategies of attack? Can you use them? When is it justified?

Yes, Sun Tzu has written about it. Sure, the covert methods especially. It's especially justified when it results in a win-win situation. But well, the truth is, attacking belongs to war and war is always lose-lose.

5. Do you think it’s ok to occupy someone else’s territory? In what situations?

Nah. No situation allows that except one, bodily territory of a person that I like and who likes me back :3 Consent is very important here.

6. What are the methods of volitional force? When is it most effective and in what situations?

Psychological manipulation, grit and stubbornness are my top three. Add aggression, but only if it's really necessary because aggression by definition is an action intended to harm others. Volition is effective in matters of career. My professor for motivation psychology developed a strategy, the Rubicon model, I like to use it.

7. How do you protect yourself and your interests?

Through steely determination. Aaand martial arts, karate and Krav Maga. Krav Maga as a defense method is awesome because it deals with situational impulses. And it's completely relentless oh my god, the techniques are so powerful.

8. Describe to us your behavior in the situations of opposition and if you have to use some force?

I know that when I use force, it's destructive on many levels. It comes out with an intensity that comes back like an echo so I avoid engaging in extreme and active opposition that involves force. I channel my force into virtues that help me deal with opposition in a mature way, I'm not the helter-skelter type. I care about Karma. On the other hand... when my competitive fighting spirit is awakened, I can't be stopped (by anyone but myself).

9. Do others think of you as a strong person? Do you think you are a strong person?

Yes. And yes.

10. How do you understand if a person is strong? Are there any signs of a strong person? What is the core of any force? Why do people listen to one person, but not the other?

I just know it. The core of force is assertion. They listen to someone they can relate to or someone who evokes fear/awe - if you strike a chord within someone, you have the attention. The person who cannot seize the spotlight will not be listened to.

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1. What is boorishness? Does your understanding of it correlate with the generally accepted notion? How would you explain to a 10 year old child what boorishness means?How would you explain the same to an adult who does not behave ethically?

Disregard of other interests. Yes, I think it correlates. I would explain it to them by using examples (for instance, bullying). For adults, I would explain what kind of behaviour would be right instead and point out the damage that boorishness causes.

2. How would you improve the moral of the society?

To improve the morals of society, improve your own morals.

3. Can you justify somebody’s bad behavior by thinking that he/she wasn’t taught how to do so?

On the one hand, it's their responsibility. On the other hand, socialization matters a lot. So yes, I can be understanding if I know the person's background.

4. Give us your understanding of love. Can you love and punish at the same time?

Love turns the me into a we. And no, punishment gets in the way of improvement. It's about power and fear (see Michel Foucault) and the exact opposite of love, as good will is repressed. The ability to forgive shows a strong and loving character. I can be vindictive myself so I know what I'm talking about.

5. Have you heard about the Southern hospitality?

I had to look it up since I'm not from the states. I like the concept.

6. What is sympathy? When do you need to express it? When is it advised not to?

It's a sense of understanding. Basically all the time, ideally. I can't think of an occasion where being sympathetic would be detrimental.

7. Are there any norms of behavior in the society? Do you follow them? Do people always have to follow them? Why?

Of course, it's the basis of socialization. It's about what's good and bad. I disagree with a lot of norms (see reasoning above, punishment is counterproductive) and don't follow them. So I don't expect adherence from others.

8. How do you know what attitude among people is right or wrong?

By their impact on others.

9 . What does moral mean? What is immoral? Does your understanding correlate with the others? How can you evaluate the correctness of your own understanding?

Moral is responsible, immoral is irresponsible. It doesn't correlate, many others use `morality´ as a reason for shaming. Tough question, but probably the way I described it in 8.), my impact on others.

10. Somebody is giving you a negative attitude – what is your reaction? Could you show your own negative attitude toward someone else? If so, how? Could you give a person the silent treatment? How easily do you forgive people?

I become inquisitive, I want to know the reason. Yes, I can show it, in a very drastic manner even, when it serves the right purpose or I can't control my temper (again... working on it). I show disdain, mostly. A silent treatment is my ultimate specialty. I forgive them when I am sympathetic.

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1. "Whole world does not cost one tear of child" – how do you understand this phrase? Do you agree with this opinion?

Never heard of it, can't make sense of it either. I tried to consult Google but I got confused.

2. Is it acceptable to express emotions? Give examples of inappropriate expression of emotions.

Sure. Basically every expression becomes inappropriate when it's not genuine but exaggerated and loud. For instance, when a person says "I'm sorry" with an unnecessarily dramatic breakdown, I'm not buying it. It has to sound sincere to me.

3. Can you use negative emotions? In what situations?

Negative emotions are useful because without them, there would be no positive ones. Suffer first, be victorious after. When I feel sad I know that there will be better days. That can be applied to every situation.

4. How do you express negative emotions? What does it look like? What do others think about it?

No idea. Probably in a negative way.

5. Shallow emotions – what does it mean? Are there any other emotions?

Shallow emotions are those that do not come from the heart. For instance, celebrating a birthday, I always feel pressured to show shallow emotions to please guests. Another shallow emotion is the one that serves to attract attention but it's fake. Beside the shallow and genuine emotion, there's the one that the person is unsure about. Surprise surprise, it's the type of emotion that I show.

6. What are right or wrong emotions?

Essentially, every emotion is right, it's innate.

7. Can you change the emotional state of yourself? Of others? To what side – positive or negative?

Yes, by changing posture or my playlist. Of others... not really. I am unskilled at this. By blurting about criticism, I unwillingly change it to negative vibes, I've been told. Problem is I can't shut up when something is lacking in some kind of way.

8. What does it mean to “pour out your emotions”? How does it happen?

Um... Poets do it best. They show how they feel with appropriate language? This process is somewhat obscure to me. It means that something was bottled up before? Emotions are actually always there, biologically. Hormones change our emotions every 5 seconds in the brain. Pouring them out figuratively and literally seems really odd.

9. Does your internal emotional state correlate with what you show externally?

No.

10. Do you track what mood you are in throughout the day? Do you notice the mood of others?

Yes, I monitor my mood a lot because I'm sensitive to it. Determining the mood of someone else requires a lot of my focus and observation so it depends on how willing I am to pay attention. Consequently, if it's someone I like, I'll notice what's up in an instant because I focus on people I like by default. I then try to assist them by figuring out how to solve whatever troubles them. I give practical advice or suggest how to change their mindset, tell them about times that I felt that way and what I did to change it, and so on.

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1. Do you like surprises?

Yes! A lot, actually.

2. Tell us how people change? How do you feel about those changes? Can others see the changes?

I could write an entire book on that, my viewpoints are far too complex for a few lines here.

3. Is it true that whatever happens is only for the best?

I always have to remind myself that yes, it happens for the best, I just have to believe it and see the good things. Mantra: Everything unfolds the way it should.

4. What do you think of horoscopes, fortune telling etc.? Do you believe in luck, lucky fortuity?

It's entertaining but essentially just another way of taking people's money with bs. Being honest, I used to be really into it, to an unhealthy extent. Luck is coincidence, it happens when all important factors align.

5. Can you forecast events? Is it even real?

Yes, and yes. I'm basically Nostradamus.

6. What is time? How do you feel time? Can you “kill” time? How?

Time (and space) rule all matter. Uhhh feeling it is a superficial term, it's something very deep. It's not killing time, it's actually wasting it because there's nothing productive to do.

7. Is it easy for you to wait for some important event? What if you don’t know when it is supposed to happen?

Yes, I am patient and generally slow-moving. Well, I'll wait anyway, and maybe even try to contribute to the fact that it will happen [the way it should].

8. Do you need help creating forecasts and determining how something will end? Do you trust those forecasts?

No, others need my help. Yes, always.

9. Are you normally late? How do you react if someone is late?

No, I want to be on time. As I explained to Maritsa earlier, I will try to prevent them from being late in the future.

10. Imagine the situation where you agreed to meet with someone. Your feelings and actions: a) 20 minutes before the meeting starts, b) 5 minutes before the meeting starts, c) it is time for the meeting to start, but the person is not here, d) 20 minutes after the meeting start time and the person is not here, e) more time and the person is still not here…

a) "Ok, everything is arranged, I know the agenda." I make sure nothing important is missing.
b) "Very well, I wonder when they will arrive..." I check for any messages that the person could've sent.
c) "Ten more minutes until I contact them." I imagine what could be the case why they are not there.
d) After attempts of contacting them: "Lmao if it goes on like that I'll leave."
e) "..." I'm preoccupied with something else and disappointed. I still wonder what the reason is and how we can catch up.

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1. Is there a meaning of life? In what? Is it the same for everybody?

Yes, the meaning of life is life itself. Everyone can define it for themselves.

2. What should be done so people can be happy?

People should not depend on something or someone that makes them happy. The key to happiness is being happy without a reason so nobody and nothing can take this happiness away from you <3

3. In the situations with a lot of potential and volatility will you trust your own guts, logically calculating everything or will you ask people you trust what should be done?

I trust my own guts.

4. When you meet a stranger, what can you say about him right away? How do you know what this person is all about? Does it take long to understand someone’s talents?

Lots and lots of things, especially when I actively scrutinize the stranger's body. Verbal and physical clues, clothes, and also my first impression about the Global 5 (Extroversion, Agreeableness, et cetera), and so on, it all plays a role. No, I'm really quick at determining what they are good at AND also what they actually love to do. Spotting passions is my passion.

5. Remember an interesting person and call out 5-6 qualities you think are interesting in him. What would make a person not interesting? Are you an interesting person? Why? What if someone calls you “boring” and “not interesting”?

Ooohh I love this question <3 Well. 1) Very kind, concerned about the opinion of others 2) Is a go-getter 3) Veeeeery energized 4) Wild and clingy 5) Super extroverted, there is always something going on 6) Likes attention. Not interesting? Impossible, everyone has something interesting about them. Consequently, I am also interesting, no matter what. If someone calls me boring I'm like "Wait until you get to know me better hehe". I have lots of talents so I am sure they will appreciate at least one of them. It has to do with liking also, you cannot call someone you like uninteresting.

6. What opinions, from people who know you, seem: 1) fair; 2) not fair; 3) hurtful; 4) strange.

1) Opinions about my reserved, non-conformist behavior.
2,3) Opinions about gender, race, able-bodiedness, religion, that type of stuff.
4) No idea.

7. Do you fantasize? What kind of fantasies do you have?

ALL THE TIME ABOUT EVERYTHING OH MY GOD.

8. What qualities should a person have to be successful and why?

Qualities that are appropriate for their pursuit.

9. What qualities can stop a person from being successful and why?

Inappropriate qualities. Probably ones that can be applied successfully somewhere else. Qualities always relate to getting something done the right way.

10. What is more important in life – to be a good person or be a successful one? Why? Is a good person always successful? If not, then why?

Successful being good sounds nice. But I have to choose so I go with good. Success can be an illusion, it's temporary, it may be stripped away from you, it can be greed that consumes you. Goodness is less external and easier to control. It's also harder to manifest, I like this challenge: You can be successful in this or that realm, but goodness can be useful and necessary in every aspect of life. A good person is not always successful because instead of striving, they just /are/ and prosper, but in a different way.

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Thank you for reading, and thanks for any type of feedback

[totalize]

Questionnaire strongly indicates Gamma NT imo

[consentingadult]

This is awkward but I think I saw you before somewhere in real life.

I saw "her" too. "She" is a planner at the job agency I work for ;-)

@Chae: my first impression is IEI>EIE. BUT.... you do wear a lot of make-up on your eyes, which makes VI more difficult. Do you by any chance happen to have pics without make-up, and preferably taken taken from some distance, so the camera doesn't distort your looks into that of an elf?

[Milo]

@Chae: I think ILI fits you fine, both your VI and also your posts on this forum.

agreed with this

[Chae]

I saw "her" too. "She" is a planner at the job agency I work for ;-)

@Chae: my first impression is IEI>EIE. BUT.... you do wear a lot of make-up on your eyes, which makes VI more difficult. Do you by any chance happen to have pics without make-up, and preferably taken taken from some distance, so the camera doesn't distort your looks into that of an elf?

I gave up on taking pictures

[Chae]

@Joy you're the questionnaire expert, care about reading it? If it's too much of a hassle, no worries

[Shining]

From your pictures Ni leading, your questionnaire NT Gamma, so ILI most likely

[Joy]

@Chae, I started reading it but need more time. (:

[Joy]

4. What is a rule? What rules you must to follow?

A rule prescribes what is right and what is wrong.

Do you mean morally right and wrong? What types of rules?

Well, unfortunately, I must obey the law.

Why?

[Chae]

Do you mean morally right and wrong? What types of rules?

Yes. I think that especially laws of the state exist to regulate behaviour so nobody is harmed. It would be good if laws would not have to exist because damaging another person financially, socially, property-wise and so on should go without saying. A rule that I would not consider being for moral purposes is some scientific regulation. Laws of physics et cetera.

Why?

I want to avoid repercussions. Punishments like paying a fine or going to prison scandalize me and make me aware of the invisible power of fear that rules us. The fact that it scandalizes me makes me sad because I probably avoid going against the laws as I fear consequences and not because I am convinced that I have to behave this or that lawful way by default. Which indicates that deep down, I want to challenge the law. I remember studying the constitution in my first two semesters, I always felt torn. The motivations for making laws seemed lacking to me --> [F]law. Refer back to my first statement, it makes me sound like a hypocrite. Long story short, I view rules in an ambivalent/caught between two stools type of way. I'm also confused.

[Joy]

@Chae, based on your SSS answers, you're LIE.

You showed individuality with Si, and your awareness of Se and Fe are way more nuanced than they are in ILIs. You also seem energized by your own use of Se. Mobilizing makes more sense than suggestive. In fact, if you're not LIE, I'd start looking at ethical types before ILI. LIE seems pretty solid though.

[Chae]

@Chae, based on your SSS answers, you're LIE.

You showed individuality with Si, and your awareness of Se and Fe are way more nuanced than they are in ILIs. You also seem energized by your own use of Se. Mobilizing makes more sense than suggestive. In fact, if you're not LIE, I'd start looking at ethical types before ILI. LIE seems pretty solid though.

Interesting, why do you think I'm Te over Ni based on the answers? Energized by Se, hm... here and there, you have a point. Nuanced in what way?

[Joy]

Interesting, why do you think I'm Te over Ni based on the answers? Energized by Se, hm... here and there, you have a point. Nuanced in what way?

You transferred to Te more than Ni, and your Ni answers matched Ni creative better than Ni lead. The creative and mobilizing functions get used together to some extent. Ni leads are more just about observing while Ni creatives use it as a tool, and they have the confidence of Se mobilizing to make predictions, communicate them, rely on them, etc. I'm not explaining what I mean well here. Maybe I just see less confidence/assertiveness in general? And you're a strong Ni subtype, so I would expect to see a lot of Ni from you (and I do).

It's more the other functions that indicate that you're LIE. In addition to what I've already said, you were "meh" about Ti and "yeah, it's cool!" about Ne. I would expect the reverse from a Ni lead.

You showed individuality with Si, not Fe. With Fe you were well aware of norms of behavior and feel compelled to follow them. 1D Si, 2D Fe. And they'd not only fail to suggest that they can tell whether someone's emotional expressions are sincere or not, they'd also be more likely to fail to even notice them.

Intuitive introverts almost always say that they can't press people at all and don't know how to defend their interests. You answered with Se and didn't transfer at all. You showed confidence and an "I want to do it myself" attitude. This is how people act with their mobilizing function, not suggestive. You also indicated that you can go overboard with it sometimes, another thing people with 2D Se say in these questionnaires (and do irl!).

In the Fi questions, you transferred to Te, Fe, and Ti. Someone with mobilizing Fi would be much more likely to stick with Fi and demonstrate the "I want to do it myself" attitude.

You didn't say much at all for the Ti questions. This is more in line with ignoring than demonstrative.

[Chae]

You transferred to Te more than Ni, and your Ni answers matched Ni creative better than Ni lead. The creative and mobilizing functions get used together to some extent. Ni leads are more just about observing while Ni creatives use it as a tool, and they have the confidence of Se mobilizing to make predictions, communicate them, rely on them, etc. I'm not explaining what I mean well here. Maybe I just see less confidence/assertiveness in general? And you're a strong Ni subtype, so I would expect to see a lot of Ni from you (and I do).

It's more the other functions that indicate that you're LIE. In addition to what I've already said, you were "meh" about Ti and "yeah, it's cool!" about Ne. I would expect the reverse from a Ni lead.

You showed individuality with Si, not Fe. With Fe you were well aware of norms of behavior and feel compelled to follow them. 1D Si, 2D Fe. And they'd not only fail to suggest that they can tell whether someone's emotional expressions are sincere or not, they'd also be more likely to fail to even notice them.

Intuitive introverts almost always say that they can't press people at all and don't know how to defend their interests. You answered with Se and didn't transfer at all. You showed confidence and an "I want to do it myself" attitude. This is how people act with their mobilizing function, not suggestive. You also indicated that you can go overboard with it sometimes, another thing people with 2D Se say in these questionnaires (and do irl!).

In the Fi questions, you transferred to Te, Fe, and Ti. Someone with mobilizing Fi would be much more likely to stick with Fi and demonstrate the "I want to do it myself" attitude.

You didn't say much at all for the Ti questions. This is more in line with ignoring than demonstrative.

Thanks for explaining, I knew you had some good input. You're up to something about the confidence part, it's very important to me. On the other hand, I sometimes observe only until I take action. I'm not too proactive but from an outside perspective, I might come across differently? Not sure. Maybe I just think I'm too passive for my own standard. I like your approach of starting with the weak functions; could you point out other details you've noticed? My Te over Ni question was useless

What I am sure about is that I am a big fan of all things Ne and I indulge in it, Ne being my 4D wouldn't surprise me. True, I notice emotional expression in the way you portray it and I don't disregard it. E.g., when someone cries I cannot ignore it and I approach them. But yeah who wouldn't? When I'm crying I want support as well? Pressing - I used to be too shy to do it, but that could've been puberty, around the age of 16. All I know is that I use pressing with a very calculating mindset. My knowledge concerning type development through early years is limited so I might err here.

Did I transfer that much? That's interesting, I was unaware. In what way exactly? I'm not too familiar with the concept.

Yeah yeah, the rules department. Compared to how I enjoyed the Ne section, I was a lot more uneasy with Ti. That explains why I got so excited and scored well in the Ne questions of the ru.laser.ru test - bet you're familiar with it - and Ti was far down the list: (Ne 30 > Te 26 > Ni 25 > Fe 23 > Ti 21 > Fi 19 > Si 18 > Se 14. Fe would be below 20 in an ILI? The only misplaced function for LIE-Ni was Se Maybe you can make sense of it, I retook the C block for Se and commented on it, key is 3 for strongly agree and 1 for most likely agree. 17 is my new score, 3 points more.

1. I am an impulsive person looking for trouble. - 2 (Sometimes, I am provocative, but not downright belligerent. My LSE mom says I have no chill sometimes while I think I'm comparatively meek and not impulsive at all.)
2. At any moment I am ready to immediately respond to any attack against me and I love to answer the opponent with a crushing blow. - 1 (I am unsure about being "ready"... Crushing blow, not really. Idk.)
3. When I am humiliated, I am hurt and I feel a strong desire to take revenge. - 3 (Definitely hurt, although I deny it. Revenge is a tricky thing though, I tend to abstain from it. The 3 is for the first part of the sentence aka my stupid pride.)
4. I prefer struggle and difficulties to stagnation and monotony: I mobilise quickly, take control of the situation. I can be strong and steadfast, the victory should be mine. - 2 (Maybe I attract struggle but I don't really want it, actively. Stagnation - no idea, yes and no. Control depends on the circumstance but I try to be stubborn. Strong and steadfast, yep. Victory, yes, but it needs to take time and efforts as feeling undeserving destroys me.)
5. I can confidently coordinate actions of others, as well as sense weak points of every situation.- 1 (I coordinate confidently but it does not occur, I mind my own business in 90% of the cases. As I said in the questionnaire, I am the person I can lead best. But I see weak points, always. I used to piss people off by pointing them out.)
6. I'm in my element during fights, arguments, rivalry, competition or war. - 1 (Another thing I deny and hate-love at the same time?? Fights make me sigh. Competition is ok since it's necessary. War: no-go area for me.)
7. I make active efforts against all that is not consistent with my feelings and views. - 3 (Practically all the time... Again, I deny it often.)
8. I would like to be the first and break all records. - 1 (Records don't interest me. I compete with myself and not somebody else. Satisfied > first & best.)
9. I'm a risk taker, but if I have to, I can bring myself to the most severe self-discipline. - 2 (Risks don't exist for me, it's either yes or no or wait. Self-discipline: uhh... I try to. Yes, at least I can get stuff done, even grudgingly.)
10. My mind works better when someone opposes or resists me. - 1 (I like faint approval of some sort but critique of what I'm saying makes my own opinions better because either they change into being more accurate/nuanced or get firmer.)

[Joy]

Thanks for explaining, I knew you had some good input. You're up to something about the confidence part, it's very important to me. On the other hand, I sometimes observe only until I take action. I'm not too proactive but from an outside perspective, I might come across differently? Not sure. Maybe I just think I'm too passive for my own standard. I like your approach of starting with the weak functions; could you point out other details you've noticed? My Te over Ni question was useless

I'll have to come back to this as detailed analysis takes more time/attention than I have available at the moment.

What I am sure about is that I am a big fan of all things Ne and I indulge in it, Ne being my 4D wouldn't surprise me. True, I notice emotional expression in the way you portray it and I don't disregard it. E.g., when someone cries I cannot ignore it and I approach them. But yeah who wouldn't? When I'm crying I want support as well? Pressing - I used to be too shy to do it, but that could've been puberty, around the age of 16. All I know is that I use pressing with a very calculating mindset. My knowledge concerning type development through early years is limited so I might err here.

Hey, even I was a shy kid! And I would definitely call LIEs calculating.

Yeah, LIEs are much, much more likely to enjoy indulging in Ne than ILIs. ILIs are more likely to do it with Ti.

Did I transfer that much? That's interesting, I was unaware. In what way exactly? I'm not too familiar with the concept.

I'll explain when I the more detailed analysis.

Yeah yeah, the rules department. Compared to how I enjoyed the Ne section, I was a lot more uneasy with Ti. That explains why I got so excited and scored well in the Ne questions of the ru.laser.ru test - bet you're familiar with it - and Ti was far down the list: (Ne 30 > Te 26 > Ni 25 > Fe 23 > Ti 21 > Fi 19 > Si 18 > Se 14. Fe would be below 20 in an ILI? The only misplaced function for LIE-Ni was Se Maybe you can make sense of it, I retook the C block for Se and commented on it, key is 3 for strongly agree and 1 for most likely agree. 17 is my new score, 3 points more.

I'm not familiar with that test, but I think tests tend to be unreliable for a number of reasons, the most significant being that when we think about the questions, we may answer more strongly for our weaker functions or for the things that we don't typically do because they stand out in our memory when we look back. For example: Being a hard ass, extremely by-the-book manager stands out strongly in my mind, but if you look at my day to day life, I'm actually not that way most of the time.

1. I am an impulsive person looking for trouble. - 2 (Sometimes, I am provocative, but not downright belligerent. My LSE mom says I have no chill sometimes while I think I'm comparatively meek and not impulsive at all.)

This question is more fitting for Beta extroverts (and maybe even ILEs) than other Se valuing types. There's also a significant maturity vs immaturity consideration here. Overall I'd say this is a shitty Se question.

2. At any moment I am ready to immediately respond to any attack against me and I love to answer the opponent with a crushing blow. - 1 (I am unsure about being "ready"... Crushing blow, not really. Idk.)

Also not a great question. Seems more Ti than Se, though perhaps there's some Se there, too.

3. When I am humiliated, I am hurt and I feel a strong desire to take revenge. - 3 (Definitely hurt, although I deny it. Revenge is a tricky

thing though, I tend to abstain from it. The 3 is for the first part of the sentence aka my stupid pride.)

Uhhh yeah, this is just immaturity and ego focus/pride.

4. I

prefer struggle and difficulties to stagnation and monotony: I mobilise quickly, take control of the situation. I can be strong and steadfast, the victory should be mine. - 2 (Maybe I attract struggle but I don't really want it, actively. Stagnation - no idea, yes and no. Control depends on the circumstance but I try to be stubborn. Strong and steadfast, yep. Victory, yes, but it needs to take time and efforts as feeling undeserving destroys me.)

This question isn't awful, though I think it should be framed in the context of being willing to struggle through unfavorable circumstances in order to accomplish a long term goal rather than just enjoying it when things are shitty.

5. I can confidently coordinate actions of others, as well as sense weak points of every situation.- 1 (I coordinate confidently but it does not occur, I mind my own business in 90% of the cases. As I said in the questionnaire, I am the person I can lead best. But I see weak points, always. I used to piss people off by pointing them out.)

Your answer here sounds more ILI than LIE, but that's not enough to change my mind.

6. I'm in my element during fights, arguments, rivalry, competition or war. - 1 (Another thing I deny and hate-love at the same time?? Fights make me sigh. Competition is ok since it's necessary. War: no-go area for me.)

This one is tricky. As an SEE, my experience is that I can usually manage situations in such a way that conflict is rare. I recognize threats before they surface and manage them in ways that I think will be most likely to get what I want. Typically this means staying on good terms with people. I diplomatically flex a little muscle here and there so they know not to cross boundaries. And I try to win them over instead of suppressing them when possible. Life is a lot easier when you have many allies instead of many enemies. And a big part of having strong Se is knowing when NOT to push. HOWEVER, on occasion someone is just too belligerent, or I have no interest in staying on good terms with the person. In those cases, I am very comfortable getting in someone's face. In fact, it feels good. Standing my ground and handling the situation wisely when someone else gets in my face also feels good. Fighting without good reason is a waste of energy and just damages my relationships with those people. I avoid it unless I happen to be in a very bad mood. I may wish to befriend that person in the future. Or I may need a favor/support. But then again, I'm Se lead. Again, I think this question is framed poorly because half of it seems related to Se and half to maturity.

7. I make active efforts against all that is not consistent with my feelings and views. - 3 (Practically all the time... Again, I deny it often.)

I think there's more to this an Se. Being eager to fight isn't specifically a strong Se thing.

8. I would like to be the first and break all records. - 1 (Records don't interest me. I compete with myself and not somebody else. Satisfied > first & best.)

:yawn:

9. I'm a risk taker, but if I have to, I can bring myself to the most severe self-discipline. - 2 (Risks don't exist for me, it's either yes or no or wait. Self-discipline: uhh... I try to. Yes, at least I can get stuff done, even grudgingly.)

Okay, THIS actually seems like a good question to help figure out of someone is Se lead. But only Se lead. lol

10. My mind works better when someone opposes or resists me. - 1 (I like faint approval of some sort but critique of what I'm saying makes my own opinions better because either they change into being more accurate/nuanced or get firmer.)

meh

Overall, I think these are shitty questions. It's like the author knew and disliked an immature SLE or something. Have you taken this? http://aimtoknow.com/test_beta DON'T TAKE IT ON YOUR PHONE because the result is a pop up pdf, and a lot of people on phones lose their results. (But again, I don't think tests are a good way to type people.)

[Chae]

@Joy, thanks and sure, take your time. I'm glad you're helping me out, it's very helpful <3 You have a point, the questions didn't meet the usual standards. Some matched another function as you say, when I opened the key that displayed which questions are for which IE, I was surprised & disappointed. When does someone on here come up with a good type assessment tool? I want to do it because mistyping is super redundant but I am not qualified/experienced enough except knowing how validity and objectivity work & what the criteria of a good questionnaire are. Basically, I need a socionics expert and an IT specialist

I just wondered about how to fuse type AND correspondent maturity when you started talking about it, seems tricky to figure out since maturity is such a hazy concept

And all right - took the AimToKnow test and got ENTj, I'll send you the results.

[Joy]

@Joy, thanks and sure, take your time. I'm glad you're helping me out, it's very helpful <3 You have a point, the questions didn't meet the usual standards. Some matched another function as you say, when I opened the key that displayed which questions are for which IE, I was surprised & disappointed. When does someone on here come up with a good type assessment tool? I want to do it because mistyping is super redundant but I am not qualified/experienced enough except knowing how validity and objectivity work & what the criteria of a good questionnaire are. Basically, I need a socionics expert and an IT specialist

I just wondered about how to fuse type AND correspondent maturity when you started talking about it, seems tricky to figure out since maturity is such a hazy concept

And all right - took the AimToKnow test and got ENTj, I'll send you the results.

I started working on some questions, but overall I think something like the SSS questionnaire is a MUCH more reliable way to type someone.

[Olimpia]

Interesting answers. I'd have to revisit them some time later probably, but for now there are a few things I have noticed while going through it.

This sounded like some Type 4 and/or 3 inclination (maybe 3w4 core or 4 in the tritype,...? Not sure yet.)

"Right next to you there is a real professional. You always see that you can’t perform the way he does. Your feelings, thoughts and actions?"
JEALOUSY and an explosion of ambitious efforts to surpass not the professional but myself.

And this is even more Type 4:

"Tell us how you’d design any room, house or an office. Do you do it yourself or trust someone else to do it? Why?"
I like the Victorian style mixed with minimalistic elements. Lady Gaga's Bad Romance video, that type of eerie, aggressive aesthetic. I would only do it myself, I want complete control over the outcome. I envision it in detail with my fantasy, it's impossible for someone else to recreate this image even if I describe it to them. The image is set, and I know it inside and out.

This rules out IEI (or likely any Ethical type for that matter) in my book:

"You need to build a pyramid, exactly like in Egypt. Your thoughts, feelings and actions?"
Cool, a pyramid. My nerdy heart and thirst for power will be so satisfied. I'll need tons of rope, wood, and a giant ramp. No problem, I'll get that done, I will acquire a nice budget with method X. On the other hand, I'll need to hire and motivate 100,000 people...

"Can you change the emotional state of yourself? Of others? To what side – positive or negative?"
Yes, by changing posture or my playlist. Of others... not really. I am unskilled at this. By blurting about criticism, I unwillingly change it to negative vibes, I've been told. Problem is I can't shut up when something is lacking in some kind of way.

"What does it mean to “pour out your emotions”? How does it happen?"
Um... Poets do it best. They show how they feel with appropriate language? This process is somewhat obscure to me. It means that something was bottled up before? Emotions are actually always there, biologically. Hormones change our emotions every 5 seconds in the brain. Pouring them out figuratively and literally seems really odd.

"Does your internal emotional state correlate with what you show externally?"
No.

This makes PoLR and unvaluing unlikely, but who knows, maybe this is just your SP instinct coming out:

"What is comfort? What is coziness? How do you create your comfort and coziness? How do others evaluate your skill in doing so? Do you agree with them?"
Comfort and coziness is basically the womb experience, like a cocoon you feel warm and hugged. I create this state by sleeping under my favorite blanket <3 I don't care how others evaluate it. It's my sleep, not theirs.

valuing stuff... or Role?:

My people: Persons I know and like. Strangers: Persons that I don't know, liking them or not does not play a role.

To improve the morals of society, improve your own morals.

Basically every expression becomes inappropriate when it's not genuine but exaggerated and loud. For instance, when a person says "I'm sorry" with an unnecessarily dramatic breakdown, I'm not buying it. It has to sound sincere to me.

Shallow emotions are those that do not come from the heart. For instance, celebrating a birthday, I always feel pressured to show shallow emotions to please guests. Another shallow emotion is the one that serves to attract attention but it's fake.

This actually reminded me of ESI:

"How do you know if a person has bad taste? Could you give us an example? Do you always trust your own taste or do you seek opinions from others?"
When it doesn't match mine. Taste is subjective. When a person sports bright yellow and pink - I'd never wear these colors - I wouldn't say that it's bad taste just because I don't prefer it on myself. I always trust my taste.

This seemed a bit out of place, like valuing ... or Role?:

"How do you know what attitude among people is right or wrong?"
By their impact on others.

These aspects make me find it pretty unlikely you are 1D .
If you are, I could only see you as ILI with a very strong Te subtype then:

"How do you protect yourself and your interests?Through steely determination. Aaand martial arts, karate and Krav Maga. Krav Maga as a defense method is awesome because it deals with situational impulses. And it's completely relentless oh my god, the techniques are so powerful.

"Describe to us your behavior in the situations of opposition and if you have to use some force?"
I know that when I use force, it's destructive on many levels. It comes out with an intensity that comes back like an echo so I avoid engaging in extreme and active opposition that involves force. I channel my force into virtues that help me deal with opposition in a mature way, I'm not the helter-skelter type. I care about Karma. On the other hand... when my competitive fighting spirit is awakened, I can't be stopped (by anyone but myself).

"Do others think of you as a strong person? Do you think you are a strong person?"
Yes. And yes.

"How do you understand if a person is strong? Are there any signs of a strong person? What is the core of any force? Why do people listen to one person, but not the other?"
I just know it. The core of force is assertion. They listen to someone they can relate to or someone who evokes fear/awe - if you strike a chord within someone, you have the attention. The person who cannot seize the spotlight will not be listened to.

This makes Ignoring seem unlikely:

"Do you like surprises?"
Yes! A lot, actually.

This points at stronger (Gamma NT) though:

"Can you forecast events? Is it even real?"
Yes, and yes. I'm basically Nostradamus.

"Is it easy for you to wait for some important event? What if you don’t know when it is supposed to happen?"
Yes, I am patient and generally slow-moving. Well, I'll wait anyway, and maybe even try to contribute to the fact that it will happen [the way it should].

"Do you need help creating forecasts and determining how something will end? Do you trust those forecasts?"
No, others need my help. Yes, always.

This seems Gamma NT ( valuing) especially:

Are you normally late? How do you react if someone is late?
No, I want to be on time. As I explained to Maritsa earlier, I will try to prevent them from being late in the future.

"What is time? How do you feel time? Can you “kill” time? How?"
Time (and space) rule all matter. Uhhh feeling it is a superficial term, it's something very deep. It's not killing time, it's actually wasting it because there's nothing productive to do.

To be honest, I just went through all this because I wanted to determine whether your current self-typing of LIE-Ni is correct or not.

It is difficult to come to a satisfying end result, even after this questionnaire. I'll have to keep an eye on you.

But I would say that LIE-Ni doesn't seem too bad of a typing after all.
Your answers indicated stronger , but not 1D . That points at either LIE or EIE. Your lack of strong rules out EIE.
I suppose the only other option in this case could be ILE, but that seems a bit odd to me.

What makes me uncertain about the LIE typing is the fact you don't seem PoLR, and that you self-type as a Type 5.
Perhaps you simply have 5 in your tritype.

In that case, in combination with the above findings and all that, if I ran with the LIE-Ni typing for you,
I'd say your Enneagram would be 3w4 (35x).

But again, I am not really too certain about that yet, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Chae]

Interesting answers. I'd have to revisit them some time later probably, but for now there are a few things I have noticed while going through it.

This sounded like some Type 4 and/or 3 inclination (maybe 3w4 core or 4 in the tritype,...? Not sure yet.)


And this is even more Type 4:


This rules out IEI (or likely any Ethical type for that matter) in my book:





This makes PoLR and unvaluing unlikely, but who knows, maybe this is just your SP instinct coming out:


valuing stuff... or Role?:





This actually reminded me of ESI:


This seemed a bit out of place, like valuing ... or Role?:


These aspects make me find it pretty unlikely you are 1D .
If you are, I could only see you as ILI with a very strong Te subtype then:





This makes Ignoring seem unlikely:


This points at stronger (Gamma NT) though:




This seems Gamma NT ( valuing) especially:

To be honest, I just went through all this because I wanted to determine whether your current self-typing of LIE-Ni is correct or not.

It is difficult to come to a satisfying end result, even after this questionnaire. I'll have to keep an eye on you.

But I would say that LIE-Ni doesn't seem too bad of a typing after all.
Your answers indicated stronger , but not 1D . That points at either LIE or EIE. Your lack of strong rules out EIE.
I suppose the only other option in this case could be ILE, but that seems a bit odd to me.

What makes me uncertain about the LIE typing is the fact you don't seem PoLR, and that you self-type as a Type 5.
Perhaps you simply have 5 in your tritype.

In that case, in combination with the above findings and all that, if I ran with the LIE-Ni typing for you,
I'd say your Enneagram would be 3w4 (35x).

But again, I am not really too certain about that yet, so take it with a grain of salt.

Do that, I want it to be as accurate as possible.

What I extracted from your analysis is that my strong functions all point to NT while my weak functions point to SF, even if the discrepancy isn't as large as it should be

ILE seems odd to me as well since they are not declaring types. I like to go on long tangents and keep explaining and explaining and explaining, when it serves a purpose, that is. My motivation to explain a lot roots in my desire to be precise and not forgetting anything that is relevant. ILEs are asking types and keep their statements short. I can't handle SEI types either (my brother is one, all he does is playing games and meeting friends, fooling around not doing his homework, and I can't understand being perspectiveless like that).

E5 still bugs me as well. If my main type is heart center, it's definitely 3w4. I relate to their approval-seeking through making projects, 6-integration toward becoming a group person instead of a lone achiever. Nevertheless, my drive to understand, research, making sense of something etc is strong. I could relate it to being Te-lead. I've read that it deals with acquiring information in a way of making things comprehensive for usage, which is what I like and love to do.
When I observe my way of studying at university... well, I usually stick to reading what I find interesting and relevant, all sorts of things that can even contradict themselves. I remember shutting down my mentor who said I should stop expanding into all thematic directions. Just... no, I won't! That's why I always say I'm confused, I see a lot of perspectives (--> Ne ignoring is unlikely as you pointed out).

LIE 3 is a common combination, your tritype suggestion is a good solution to the problem. I'd still keep the 1 because I relate to anger in a very distant way and try to rationalize myself out of it. 351 is rather robotic, which fits what other people have called me ("You're a machine!"). 359 could be misleading since 3 desintegrates to 9.

All in all, LIE 3w4 5w4 1w9 Sx/Sp > LIE 5w4 4w3 1w9?

[Olimpia]

Do that, I want it to be as accurate as possible.

What I extracted from your analysis is that my strong functions all point to NT while my weak functions point to SF, even if the discrepancy isn't as large as it should be

ILE seems odd to me as well since they are not declaring types. I like to go on long tangents and keep explaining and explaining and explaining, when it serves a purpose, that is. My motivation to explain a lot roots in my desire to be precise and not forgetting anything that is relevant. ILEs are asking types and keep their statements short. I can't handle SEI types either (my brother is one, all he does is playing games and meeting friends, fooling around not doing his homework, and I can't understand being perspectiveless like that).

E5 still bugs me as well. If my main type is heart center, it's definitely 3w4. I relate to their approval-seeking through making projects, 6-integration toward becoming a group person instead of a lone achiever. Nevertheless, my drive to understand, research, making sense of something etc is strong. I could relate it to being Te-lead. I've read that it deals with acquiring information in a way of making things comprehensive for usage, which is what I like and love to do.
When I observe my way of studying at university... well, I usually stick to reading what I find interesting and relevant, all sorts of things that can even contradict themselves. I remember shutting down my mentor who said I should stop expanding into all thematic directions. Just... no, I won't! That's why I always say I'm confused, I see a lot of perspectives (--> Ne ignoring is unlikely as you pointed out).

LIE 3 is a common combination, your tritype suggestion is a good solution to the problem. I'd still keep the 1 because I relate to anger in a very distant way and try to rationalize myself out of it. 351 is rather robotic, which fits what other people have called me ("You're a machine!"). 359 could be misleading since 3 desintegrates to 9.

All in all, LIE 3w4 5w4 1w9 Sx/Sp > LIE 5w4 4w3 1w9?

Well, to be honest, I don't think Type 5 core + LIE really works.
I am one of those people who finds that Type 5s are all introverts. And yes, also introverts in Socionics.

At this point, it would be a good idea to figure out which Enneagram type you are the most like(ly).
What do you struggle with the most, or what has left lasting impressions in your youth: Your sadness, fear(s), or anger?
Based on that response, you are most likely a Heart Type, Mind Type, or Gut Type.
Based on that response, you are most likely either 3w4, E5, or Type 1 (core).

You could also just go with LIE 3w4 (351) for now, and later adjust the typing when it doesn't feel right anymore.

P.S: An example of a "Technical Expert", aka 153, is Light Yagami (IMO).
He's ILI-Te So/Sp though.

[maniac]

Personally I think youre 7, your pics are 7ish and your avatar too, and the fashion for all the types is something a 7 would do to entertain themselves lol

[Chae]

Personally I think youre 7, your pics are 7ish and your avatar too, and the fashion for all the types is something a 7 would do to entertain themselves lol

Oh, you observed that well. I did it to entertain myself while providing something aesthetically pleasing. I'd choose 8 as a wing since I don't relate to group spirit and security but hm... 7w8 is by far the most impulsive type. Let me hear you out, what else did you find striking?

[Chae]

Well, to be honest, I don't think Type 5 core + LIE really works.
I am one of those people who finds that Type 5s are all introverts. And yes, also introverts in Socionics.

At this point, it would be a good idea to figure out which Enneagram type you are the most like(ly).
What do you struggle with the most, or what has left lasting impressions in your youth: Your sadness, fear(s), or anger?
Based on that response, you are most likely a Heart Type, Mind Type, or Gut Type.
Based on that response, you are most likely either 3w4, E5, or Type 1 (core).

You could also just go with LIE 3w4 (351) for now, and later adjust the typing when it doesn't feel right anymore.

P.S: An example of a "Technical Expert", aka 153, is Light Yagami (IMO).
He's ILI-Te So/Sp though.

Agreed! LIE would either be a 7,8 or 3, most likely an 8. I observed the same trend among introverts, the same goes for e9.

Makes sense, although I announced to make a separate thread but while we're at it, let's go. Childhood impressions + struggles, ok. I wrote 7 1/2 smaller paragraphs, I hope that's enough:

Now, struggles in my youth... not being attractive. I had and still have the weirdest body issues that impact me more than I want them to. I was so preoccupied with what I perceived as flaws, it deprived me of time and self-confidence. God, my esteem was low. If someone wanted to defeat me, they just needed a mirror. So, my seeming unattractiveness made me sad, fearful and angry at once. This was (is?) a veeery weak spot of mine and the #1 reason why I suffered for many years. You saw the V.I pictures from 2 years ago, the level of make-up equals my level of self-hatred/craving to appeal. Wearing fake lashes? They're mega uncomfortable but I don't care since they make me look better! <--- That was my logic back then. My self-awareness is still lacking and severely skewed and I have to remind myself how irrational that is. I most likely have BDD but don't care about therapy, when I can't fix it nobody else can.

As for concrete fears: being laughed at. Failing in life. Not getting good grades, I wanted to be competent at all costs. Anger: being seen as a despicable/unimportant person makes me BOIL INSIDE. Being looked down on impacted me a lot. I have a longer history of being bullied, that's definitely one of the biggest factors in my development. I try to avoid being humiliated nowadays and boss up instantly when I sense disrespect or attempts at controlling my behavior . Rediscovering my self-worth while not taking my capabilities too seriously was hard for me and a source of sadness for sure.

Unfair treatment upsets me and makes me sad, too. When someone else is treated less than their basic dignity, I show the same response and defend them/attack the person that treated them like trash. Nobody deserves this. What else is there... I got frustrated when my opinion was devalued or even ignored. Being ignored still gets to me even if I don't actively seek the attention. Or maybe I do and this was a lie, all I know is that I consider myself important and whatever contradicts it threatens me.

Talking about threats, I got deeply traumatized by everything medical when I was young. My phobia of injections or intravenous infusions is rather extreme. I remember most encounters with doctors who gave me injections in sickening details. I got a blood sample taken once - never again, I fainted instantly. The next time a doctor announced he needed a sample, I started crying. My fear of needles intensified when I got one stuck in my foot (it fell on my carpet while I was sewing) and it had to be removed through surgery. The worst days in my entire life and it still freaks me out. Related to that trauma is my hatred for dentists. I still refuse to get my wisdom teeth removed. I don't even know where my panic is coming from. Just the thought of someone controlling and impacting my body with some sharp instruments gets me unusually worked up.

Another fear: being basic and not a memorable person. I was always beaming when teachers called me an achiever and notable. Being told "You're not like the others" made and makes all bells chime in my head, this sounds weird but to me, that mattered and I can recall every detail of the occasions of when it happened. When my creativity wasn't praised (praise is still very important to me), I was/am discouraged and fearful of what the lack of praise means (No praise ="You didn't do well" or "It's mediocre"). I empathize with people who desire praise, I don't consider it annoying but natural to praise someone when they performed their best or even accomplished small things to encourage them. The people I crush on are basically the same, they live for the applause as Lady Gaga sings.

My love for praise relates to my general struggle of getting recognition for what I do. I remember the days I spent on twitter when I was young, my follower count was more important than my actual content - although I put a lot of emphasis on high-quality tweets that distinguished me - and I managed it religiously. Profile picture, header, biography, background, everything had to be perfect and outstanding and innovative since I got envious of those in my community who I thought were better than me. Same with my former tumblr blog, I looked at what other successful blogs did and added my own special knowledge and touch to make it better. I feared not being able to make a change and being just another blog among others.

Another thought on anger... what left a big impression on me was when a bunch of girls was taking my things. I lost composure and started screaming at them like the devil himself possessed me, the impact seemed to be big as they gave it back instantly and started being nice and submissive to me since that very day. I can't remember another occasion where I got angrier than that. I tamed my rage and never exploded like this again because I was so scared of my own angry self.

Outlining my current struggles: leading my university projects to success (=priority), not being completely pathetic and getting a grip on my health and looks, that's basically it.

Don't know what to make out of that, it's just a big messsss

Light always seemed like an EIE who pretends to be Gamma to me :') But he was my fav character in the series, I liked him more than L. I shed a bunch of tears in the end and I think he's misunderstood. Villains often have the right goals but use inhuman methods but I can see what their purpose is and relate to it.
The tritype and So/Sp typings are on point

[Chae]

Nvm, I reread my text and double-checked with this 5 versus 3 misidentification article - I'm definitely a 3.


1. Fives don't even consider being threes in the first place, while it is common vice versa: threes portray an image - check
2. Threes are occupied with appearance while fives don't care about it much - CHECK
3. Fives like knowledge for knowledge's sake and are experts, threes exploit knowledge for gain and change their fields often to get approval as it fits them - check
4. Threes are occupied with impressing others (=their parents) as an underlying drive, fives aren't - check
5. Praise and recognition are important to the three so they set goals, fives are too busy making theories in isolation while not being goal-oriented - check
6. Threes always have personal aspirations and take on roles which are defined by others, fives define success for themselves - CHECK
7. A three wants to be well-groomed and sociable for recognition, to a five work is more important, they are loners - check, although I often mind my own business (disintegration toward enneagram 9 + social blind spot)
8. Threes thrive on competition and rivalry, fives don't: they are excited by scientific discovery itself and not by antagonizing others - check, I talked about my attitude towards rivalry in this thread recently and it matches
9. Fives are impractical, threes are calculating and effective as they are goal-strivers - check, I can't stand redundancy and impracticality.
10. A three's motivation is success through whatever, a five's "whatever" is utterly important while success isn't. They just want to "know" while secluding themselves - check

As for the wing it's obviously 4, I get jealous of competitors and compare myself often, something that hurts me. I can get dramatic and have been told to become an actor, I'm full of pretense and bitter about the standards I don't meet. My statements about suffering and wanting to be special also fit 3w4. My tendency for sacrifice mixed with cold business mentality is also a defining element. My interest in the entertainment industry (dance, music, movies and so on) and management point to the same conclusion, a five wouldn't be motivated enough unless they were confident in their knowledge, integrating 8. Fives don't like it loud and shallow, I really do. The arts and outfits are my schtick, which doesn't fit 5w4 at all but suits 3w4 just right.

Now it also makes sense that I'm SX first, fives are usually heavy on SP.

[Exodus]

Some observations:

-You are highly attuned to style and other visual methods of self-expression (as witnessed by your many threads on the quadras and fashion etc.)
-Not only do you use a lot of emoticons but you have a very clear and straightforward communication style, it's never in doubt what you are trying to convey.
-Perhaps some interest in business but also emotional/psychological/behavioral language: "longings" etc
-Generally seem to prioritize uninhibited, free-spirited communication
-"We work to change the world"
-demanding: "I want complete control"

Now, struggles in my youth... not being attractive. I had and still have the weirdest body issues that impact me more than I want them to. I was so preoccupied with what I perceived as flaws, it deprived me of time and self-confidence. God, my esteem was low. If someone wanted to defeat me, they just needed a mirror. So, my seeming unattractiveness made me sad, fearful and angry at once. This was (is?) a veeery weak spot of mine and the #1 reason why I suffered for many years. You saw the V.I pictures from 2 years ago, the level of make-up equals my level of self-hatred/craving to appeal. Wearing fake lashes? They're mega uncomfortable but I don't care since they make me look better! <--- That was my logic back then. My self-awareness is still lacking and severely skewed and I have to remind myself how irrational that is. I most likely have BDD but don't care about therapy, when I can't fix it nobody else can.

As for concrete fears: being laughed at. Failing in life. Not getting good grades, I wanted to be competent at all costs. Anger: being seen as a despicable/unimportant person makes me BOIL INSIDE. Being looked down on impacted me a lot. I have a longer history of being bullied, that's definitely one of the biggest factors in my development. I try to avoid being humiliated nowadays and boss up instantly when I sense disrespect or attempts at controlling my behavior . Rediscovering my self-worth while not taking my capabilities too seriously was hard for me and a source of sadness for sure.

Unfair treatment upsets me and makes me sad, too. When someone else is treated less than their basic dignity, I show the same response and defend them/attack the person that treated them like trash. Nobody deserves this. What else is there... I got frustrated when my opinion was devalued or even ignored. Being ignored still gets to me even if I don't actively seek the attention. Or maybe I do and this was a lie, all I know is that I consider myself important and whatever contradicts it threatens me.

Talking about threats, I got deeply traumatized by everything medical when I was young. My phobia of injections or intravenous infusions is rather extreme. I remember most encounters with doctors who gave me injections in sickening details. I got a blood sample taken once - never again, I fainted instantly. The next time a doctor announced he needed a sample, I started crying. My fear of needles intensified when I got one stuck in my foot (it fell on my carpet while I was sewing) and it had to be removed through surgery. The worst days in my entire life and it still freaks me out. Related to that trauma is my hatred for dentists. I still refuse to get my wisdom teeth removed. I don't even know where my panic is coming from. Just the thought of someone controlling and impacting my body with some sharp instruments gets me unusually worked up.

Another fear: being basic and not a memorable person. I was always beaming when teachers called me an achiever and notable. Being told "You're not like the others" made and makes all bells chime in my head, this sounds weird but to me, that mattered and I can recall every detail of the occasions of when it happened. When my creativity wasn't praised (praise is still very important to me), I was/am discouraged and fearful of what the lack of praise means (No praise ="You didn't do well" or "It's mediocre"). I empathize with people who desire praise, I don't consider it annoying but natural to praise someone when they performed their best or even accomplished small things to encourage them. The people I crush on are basically the same, they live for the applause as Lady Gaga sings.

My love for praise relates to my general struggle of getting recognition for what I do. I remember the days I spent on twitter when I was young, my follower count was more important than my actual content - although I put a lot of emphasis on high-quality tweets that distinguished me - and I managed it religiously. Profile picture, header, biography, background, everything had to be perfect and outstanding and innovative since I got envious of those in my community who I thought were better than me. Same with my former tumblr blog, I looked at what other successful blogs did and added my own special knowledge and touch to make it better. I feared not being able to make a change and being just another blog among others.

Another thought on anger... what left a big impression on me was when a bunch of girls was taking my things. I lost composure and started screaming at them like the devil himself possessed me, the impact seemed to be big as they gave it back instantly and started being nice and submissive to me since that very day. I can't remember another occasion where I got angrier than that. I tamed my rage and never exploded like this again because I was so scared of my own angry self.

Outlining my current struggles: leading my university projects to success (=priority), not being completely pathetic and getting a grip on my health and looks, that's basically it.

The bolded part is essentially the definition of leading + Mobilizing. Need I even point out all the emotional language?

[Chae]

Some observations:

-You are highly attuned to style and other visual methods of self-expression (as witnessed by your many threads on the quadras and fashion etc.)
-Not only do you use a lot of emoticons but you have a very clear and straightforward communication style, it's never in doubt what you are trying to convey.
-Perhaps some interest in business but also emotional/psychological/behavioral language: "longings" etc
-Generally seem to prioritize uninhibited, free-spirited communication
-"We work to change the world"
-demanding: "I want complete control"



The bolded part is essentially the definition of leading + Mobilizing. Need I even point out all the emotional language?

EIE, hm... do you have other observations? It looks like you've investigated some more. Also, your analysis via Model A would be cool so we can contrast it with Joy's points.

[Exodus]

EIE, hm... do you have other observations? It looks like you've investigated some more. Also, your analysis via Model A would be cool so we can contrast it with Joy's points.

I mean, I can break it down some more. The seeking recognition and praise - this is with some . So this is something that Te ego types are basically oblivious to, let alone seek out purposely.

"I found out that it keeps me on my toes when someone writes like that, so I copied it hoping that it draws attention to my thoughts, too."

Again this shows attention to - is more than just emotional expression, it has to do with the form of a message that is conveyed, crafting it in such a way that it will be more convincing, more interesting, more palatable to people, etc. The fact that you don't actually lol when you type lmao is completely secondary (this is probably true for most people anyways).

"Combat and gender correlate. War, military, power structures - it's a masculine system based on an oedipal society."

You have tons of stereotypical interests: art, culture, fashion, Freudian-type psychoanalysis. Attribution of some deeper psychological motivation is very -- with here because it relates to society on a grander scale. comes with that as well.

"I tend to dream a lot when performing chores, I'm never entirely present in general."

Intuitive, probably >

"I like my depth." more FeNi

"When I'm around people who are good at socializing, I feel helped.... I'm a deliberate hermit sometimes"

This is perfectly normal for an Ni ego type actually. "Socializing" actually involves a big element of Se as well.

"I get along with people pleasers, active people, loud and talkative ones, cuddly ones. They're straightforward and easy to approach. They can be chaotic and hyperactive, touchy-feely, a little invasive here, a little charming there. I sync well with volatile personalities. Rigidity... no. I want to be entertained."

Altogether this is very Beta. "Volatile" is a good word for many Betas. Invasive - Se, entertained - Fe.

"As for qualities, I value someone supportive, they prioritize me. For instance, I want to be looked at attentively. I want respect for what I do. What else... Physical presence is important, I want to be close to them in every sense of the word."

Again this goes back to the general theme of seeking attention and recognition. Beta rationals often expect a very tight bond in relationships, someone you can rely on.

"Everything I'd want my child to be is a personal projection so I'll be careful."

This shows again you tend to see things in terms of psychology and motivations. goldenbane often uses similar language. This also implies denial that certain things are objectively more valuable than others ( with some perhaps).

"My snarky humor comes out sometimes, I think it's a defense mechanism"

ditto

"Generally, I am observant and keep my distance." Ni

"deep down, I want to challenge the law."

This idea of consciously challenging a system is much more Beta than Gamma. As I've mentioned before, Gammas tend to just ignore rules that get in the way as much as they can, rather than trying to "take them on" and destroy them like Betas (something which is inherently less efficient and based on a principled stance).

"Long story short, I view rules in an ambivalent/caught between two stools type of way. I'm also confused."

Normal for ego and superid.

I agree with Joy's general points about Se but I'm not sure why she thinks you have 2D Fe. The points about being somewhat silent on Ti could also apply to Ti Suggestive.

[Chae]

I mean, I can break it down some more. The seeking recognition and praise - this is with some . So this is something that Te ego types are basically oblivious to, let alone seek out purposely.

"I found out that it keeps me on my toes when someone writes like that, so I copied it hoping that it draws attention to my thoughts, too."

Again this shows attention to - is more than just emotional expression, it has to do with the form of a message that is conveyed, crafting it in such a way that it will be more convincing, more interesting, more palatable to people, etc. The fact that you don't actually lol when you type lmao is completely secondary (this is probably true for most people anyways).

"Combat and gender correlate. War, military, power structures - it's a masculine system based on an oedipal society."

You have tons of stereotypical interests: art, culture, fashion, Freudian-type psychoanalysis. Attribution of some deeper psychological motivation is very -- with here because it relates to society on a grander scale. comes with that as well.

"I tend to dream a lot when performing chores, I'm never entirely present in general."

Intuitive, probably >

"I like my depth." more FeNi

"When I'm around people who are good at socializing, I feel helped.... I'm a deliberate hermit sometimes"

This is perfectly normal for an Ni ego type actually. "Socializing" actually involves a big element of Se as well.

"I get along with people pleasers, active people, loud and talkative ones, cuddly ones. They're straightforward and easy to approach. They can be chaotic and hyperactive, touchy-feely, a little invasive here, a little charming there. I sync well with volatile personalities. Rigidity... no. I want to be entertained."

Altogether this is very Beta. "Volatile" is a good word for many Betas. Invasive - Se, entertained - Fe.

"As for qualities, I value someone supportive, they prioritize me. For instance, I want to be looked at attentively. I want respect for what I do. What else... Physical presence is important, I want to be close to them in every sense of the word."

Again this goes back to the general theme of seeking attention and recognition. Beta rationals often expect a very tight bond in relationships, someone you can rely on.

"Everything I'd want my child to be is a personal projection so I'll be careful."

This shows again you tend to see things in terms of psychology and motivations. goldenbane often uses similar language. This also implies denial that certain things are objectively more valuable than others ( with some perhaps).

"My snarky humor comes out sometimes, I think it's a defense mechanism"

ditto

"Generally, I am observant and keep my distance." Ni

"deep down, I want to challenge the law."

This idea of consciously challenging a system is much more Beta than Gamma. As I've mentioned before, Gammas tend to just ignore rules that get in the way as much as they can, rather than trying to "take them on" and destroy them like Betas (something which is inherently less efficient and based on a principled stance).

"Long story short, I view rules in an ambivalent/caught between two stools type of way. I'm also confused."

Normal for ego and superid.

I agree with Joy's general points about Se but I'm not sure why she thinks you have 2D Fe. The points about being somewhat silent on Ti could also apply to Ti Suggestive.

Thanks! I appreciate the effort. What I am skeptical about is that FeNi means using psychological insights. If anything, that would make me IEE. Also, I attribute my efforts to be interesting to my 4-wing. The 3 for recognition and praise.

Good points about depth, volatile people, entertainment, artsy interests (humanitarian club would fit, although my current occupation is very scientific - I do well not to disappoint myself but my motivation is limited, so NF > NT), challenging the system. Yes yes, the show business is my thing, that also indicates EIE.

What you didn't elaborate on too much and what I fail to recognize as well is how I am compelled toward ISTj-ness. The only obvious evidence right now is me asking you, Ti lead, for analysis - and, recently, you observed contradictions in my statements. So far, so good, trusting your self-typing. But my description of a volatile, people-pleasing and cuddly person does not point to the coherency, method/instruction usage, correctness, detail focus, dutifulness of an LSI. Anything other than the charm/clinginess I described is terribly boring to me, I can't see the attractiveness of a rule-loving person since they are not "cute" as I like to phrase it.

Another point that is unclear to me, I don't really identify with Beta aristocracy. Judgement based on group affiliation is something I am wary of, I think of people as multi-faceted. We're not people in categories, we're individual histories. Which again points to Ti-ignoring or Ti polr, and Ne. I dislike bureaucracy as well, Germany as an LSI country is as far from what I am comfortable with as possible.

Well, let's ask her. @Joy your reasoning on 2D or 4D Fe for me is needed

[Exodus]

What you didn't elaborate on too much and what I fail to recognize as well is how I am compelled toward ISTj-ness. The only obvious evidence right now is me asking you, Ti lead, for analysis - and, recently, you observed contradictions in my statements. So far, so good, trusting your self-typing. But my description of a volatile, people-pleasing and cuddly person does not point to the coherency, method/instruction usage, correctness, detail focus, dutifulness of an LSI. Anything other than the charm/clinginess I described is terribly boring to me, I can't see the attractiveness of a rule-loving person since they are not "cute" as I like to phrase it.

The thing about the suggestive function is that we are not always aware that it is something we need. And yes, this thread is a good example -- promoting open communication () to improve your understanding (). Obviously you use quite a bit, but I would have a very hard time seeing you as seeking given all the recurring themes.

Another point that is unclear to me, I don't really identify with Beta aristocracy. Judgement based on group affiliation is something I am wary of, I think of people as multi-faceted. We're not people in categories, we're individual histories. Which again points to Ti-ignoring or Ti polr, and Ne.

Sure, that's something that a Delta NF could express. But it may just have more to do with strong intuition and ethics rather than quadra values. It's not at all out of the ordinary for Beta NFs in my experience.

The difference between Delta and Beta NF psychoanalysis is a bit subtle. I might describe it like this: is about understanding the development of someone's inner qualities over time, and how that relates to their greater cultural context, their passions and desires etc. is more about having faith in people's innate goodness and value, and cultivating tolerance by understanding where people are coming from, their circumstances etc. "Individual histories" is more like the former.

[Chae]

The thing about the suggestive function is that we are not always aware that it is something we need. And yes, this thread is a good example -- promoting open communication () to improve your understanding (). Obviously you use quite a bit, but I would have a very hard time seeing you as seeking given all the recurring themes.

You have a point, some structure in my life wouldn't hurt. Mhm, Se over Si for days, unless I am actually IEI-Ni as the original suspicions suggested. As usual, my self-awareness renders me quite hopeless in figuring out how my lower IEs line up. As you pointed out, what we want can obscure what we need. Ne is quite important to me, all the talent and possibilities of everything and everyone. I want to work with that in the future so EIE as the mentor does apply to my aspirations as well.
What I'm careful about is not getting into the bias mindset here, when I thought I was an ILI everyone confirmed it, same with LIE. I feel like putting on different hats, finding that each of them looks good on me. Plot twist: I am indeed EIE and my methods of persuasion are excellent so I can be who I want to be in the eyes of others and myself. That would explain my confusion about body and identity and just about everything else.

Sure, that's something that a Delta NF could express. But it may just have more to do with strong intuition and ethics rather than quadra values. It's not at all out of the ordinary for Beta NFs in my experience.

The difference between Delta and Beta NF psychoanalysis is a bit subtle. I might describe it like this: is about understanding the development of someone's inner qualities over time, and how that relates to their greater cultural context, their passions and desires etc. is more about having faith in people's innate goodness and value, and cultivating tolerance by understanding where people are coming from, their circumstances etc. "Individual histories" is more like the former.

I relate to both of these approaches, but still...



Spot on. What I mainly use is not actual psychoanalysis but more of a clinical/social psychology approach but the temporal element is there, I tend to explain everything by "what childhood did to you".

Another concern, how does my rational trait manifest? I'm terribly flexible and a "wait and see" person as Reinin describes.

[Exodus]

What I'm careful about is not getting into the bias mindset here, when I thought I was an ILI everyone confirmed it, same with LIE. I feel like putting on different hats, finding that each of them looks good on me. Plot twist: I am indeed EIE and my methods of persuasion are excellent so I can be who I want to be in the eyes of others and myself. That would explain my confusion about body and identity and just about everything else.

Yep

Another concern, how does my rational trait manifest? I'm terribly flexible and a "wait and see" person as Reinin describes.

I don't put a whole lot of stock in the rational/irrational dichotomy. But you seem to have a more direct, predictable communication style, which is more typical of rationals. Flexibility can be related to other things.

[MensSuperMateriam]

Beta rationals often expect a very tight bond in relationships, someone you can rely on.

This description sounds to me like quintessential Fi.


I guess it can be modulated according to the particular things you want (and desire) to be provided by means of the reliable bond, but by default imo it would be Fi (relational ethics) >Fe. Not implying OP is necessarily Fi valuer, just pointing out.

This thread is interesting, as sometimes I've considered NF of some kind for myself despite my apparent über-logic, but have troubles deciding which kind is closer to me. By means of quadra values and complexes, it seems to be delta>beta.

I can see certain betaness into myself, but I have serious troubles seeing an LSI as my dual partner (as seems to happen with Chae), due to similar reasons. Or maybe I have an unaccurate mental image of them, who knows.

This idea of consciously challenging a system is much more Beta than Gamma. As I've mentioned before, Gammas tend to just ignore rules that get in the way as much as they can, rather than trying to "take them on" and destroy them like Betas (something which is inherently less efficient and based on a principled stance).

Agree. Betas want to destroy the rules they do not agree with, and enforce those they agree with. Gammas... just do not have the same "rule awareness" and therefore they do not feel the need to take them down. As long as such constructs do not affect them they're relatively fine even when they could disagree. That's why gammas have much less troubles accepting people who could think/believe in a radically different way, as long as these beliefs are not enforced onto themselves. Herd behavior... no plz.

Challenging the system is very expensive in a cost-benefit ratio; time & (other kind of) resources are better spent in achieving personal goals. Maybe it sound selfish but... isn't every act selfish in a way or another? People people (or should I say people's people) do what they do because their actions grant them respect, recognition... from their peers. That's a form of gain for them.

Let's be honest, nobody does by default something that provides negative psychological input, as even altruistic behavior or something that is painful in a way is done because it is globally perceived as "good". Consequently it generates positive feelings at least by means of self-image.

[Exodus]

This description sounds to me like quintessential Fi.


I guess it can be modulated according to the particular things you want (and desire) to be provided by means of the reliable bond, but by default imo it would be Fi (relational ethics) >Fe. Not implying OP is necessarily Fi valuer, just pointing out.

Let me clarify a little, this may be a confusing point. Fe valuers (and especially Fe rational types) expect a kind of constant line of communication to be open. "being present", giving someone attention, the overall intention here has more to do with the interactional, dynamic quality of the relationship. Fi valuers may care more about the underlying status of the relationship but actually tend to neglect expressing it externally at times. The whole stereotype of the "overattached girlfriend", the smothering / clingy SO who wants to know where you are every second of the day -- this is really an Fe leading archetype.

[Chae]

Or maybe I have an unaccurate mental image of them, who knows.

That seems to be the heart of the matter. Imagining TiSe and actually identifying an LSI and interacting with them - there's a great disparity. Since we both struggle to pinpoint our own types, how can we expect to be able to concretely type our dual.