Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 41 to 68 of 68

Thread: The energy model. (Model G)

  1. #41
    Petter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    190
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    It might be as such that energy -> produce -> information which is no longer just data.
    So when people make sense of the world and later communicate the result of that "making sense of" energy have been spend in the mental process. It might correlate with being "bored" or "tired" reading heavy books, mentally.
    I apologize for a delayed response.

    I agree with you that processing (or producing) information takes energy, but I still don't see how data/information can contain energy.

    Also that some find some topics interesting while others get mentally drained and "bored" when researching the same things.
    Isn't this just the same thing as preference/functions strength?

  2. #42
    Petter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    190
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    Function strength I believe has to do with the amount of psychic energy that can be directed towards an information element. On the basis of function strength in model A, ENTj and ENTp are the same.
    I apologize for a delayed response.

    This corresponds with dimensionality, right? This is also the same as 'interest' according to SSS, and me.

    I see preference in a different way that's governed by how information enters into the system and how information is output from the system and the sequential flow of information within the metabolism.

    However my view is that Model A function strength is mutable in a way that information preference is not. The flow of information in Model A is very specific and unable to be altered for any individual, any change even minor change to this structure would create mental instability, fragmentation or collapse. Something like dissociation identity disorder or major dissociation can likely present different information preference schemes if there is enough fragmentation.
    Can you explain this part a bit further?

    Can you give me an example of an impossible alteration of the flow of information?

    So a ENTp and a ENTj have completely different and incompatible information processing mechanisms, but their function strength are the same per model A.
    I disagree with this. I think preference and function strength is the same thing. However, ENTp and ENTj don't think Te and Ne are equally important. ENTp "values" Ne more than Te, especially in public.

    Is your view that preferred functions are the same as "valued" functions?

    I also want to note it's entirely possible that for some individuals one ego function is heavily favored and the other subdued.
    Why do you think that?

  3. #43
    Glorious Member mu4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mind
    Posts
    7,964
    Mentioned
    562 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    I apologize for a delayed response.

    This corresponds with dimensionality, right? This is also the same as 'interest' according to SSS, and me.
    There could be a correlation but not necessarily a causal effect between psychic energy and dimensionality. I think intelligence(general and specific) can factor here. Psychic energy may not even be function strength it might be an aspect of the human organism that may display as function strength but different aspect vs what socionics attempts to measure.



    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    Can you explain this part a bit further?

    Can you give me an example of an impossible alteration of the flow of information?

    I disagree with this. I think preference and function strength is the same thing. However, ENTp and ENTj don't think Te and Ne are equally important. ENTp "values" Ne more than Te, especially in public.
    Once again there is probably a correlation but there's no need to be causation. Function strength is already seen to be mutable by various subtype theories. A contact subtype of a D (DCNH) subtype would have accentuated and thus perhaps stronger than . I'm not sure if you understand what I've said.

    The flow of information if changed would change type, if ILE all of a sudden the preferred information flow went from Ne->Ti to Ne-Fi then they would have changed types, or perhaps created an alternated TIM(dissociative identity disorder is a thing). This wouldn't change function strength either. From my study of various dissociative disorders, this is entirely possible, some dissociative identity disorders can be visually blind in one personality vs another and this can be confirmed via neural imaging, the vision receptors are simply shut off due to some trauma. I assume many more changes to the brain can occur via trauma, physical or psychological. However even if preference changes to trauma, strength might still be preserved. The model is only a efficient ideal of a information metabolism, but it has really no bearing on the possible variation that exists, which can be as inefficient in many ways as long as what is necessary eventually occurs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    Is your view that preferred functions are the same as "valued" functions?

    Why do you think that?
    I'm not sure what you're asking, information preference and valued functions are the same in socionics.

    Anyways I'm not sure how much knowledge you have of neuroscience or cognitive science so you may need to learn a lot more before approaching the theoretical aspects of this topic.

  4. #44
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    I apologize for a delayed response.

    I agree with you that processing (or producing) information takes energy, but I still don't see how data/information can contain energy.
    Im not sure it suppose to "contain energy".

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/365-Energy-model-of-a-socionics-object-Structure-and-Function-(by-V-Gulenko)
    We begin with general considerations. We estimate the value of poles dichotomy "energy / information" in the modern world.

    In the information society especially valuable resource advocates energy. Information becomes excessive, accumulated a lot of information "garbage." A lot of extra energy spent on it to find the desired information. In addition, the more complex technical device or the more developed the economy, the higher their dependence on energy sources. Energy deficit requires expensive equipment to develop its economy. Not far off the crisis of food and drinking water, not to mention the depletion of oil and gas reserves.

    Impact of the word as a carrier of information to a person or group of people is ineffective, if not produce energy training, that is to excite or interest the person (translate to a higher energy level). Practicing psychologists, PR-specialists and political scientists have long realized this. Energy psyche begins to bring to the fore.

    NB! The brain consumes about half of the energy delivered to the body with food.

    Creative people are capable of generating new information, if they are not energetic or if they do not support controlling energy sponsors, in most cases, remain out of work, are in a trance. Remember the perennial question: "If you're so smart, why are you so poor?"

    In any successful business share information - about 20-30%, the rest - energy, efforts to implement the application and promotion. Naked enthusiasm dries quickly, it is necessary to pump in a lot of energy to "the process has begun," and is not stalled in the future.

    'll Conclude. The focus of modern socionics should stand modeling of energy and information processes as energy generates information - new order, valuable experience, proven knowledge. After all, knowledge (information arms) even the most trusted in themselves, without, worthless. And in order to begin to apply them, need energy. How to get it or save?

    Building a model of an object as a chain sotsionicheskogo extroverted and introverted interleaving functions so far no one has tested experimentally. If you make such an assessment by energy costs, the unfavorable functioning sotsionicheskogo object in frequent changes of extra - and introverted states is obvious. Model with such operation would be "cool" and quickly "fails" like a car that goes all the time on a bumpy road. For this reason, I have developed another model of the psyche - the energy that is more than meets the criterion of optimal life in the material world.

    Energy sotsionicheskogo object model does not negate the Model A, but complements it to a single model of energetic metabolism (EIM).
    This article tell us that spending energy make us generate information. It seems that information itself contain no energy, it can be viewed as a information sting in a specific order, but creating or finding this information and fitting it and making sense of it does consume energy.
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

    * Tigerfadder
    has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM




  5. #45

    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    TIM
    EII
    Posts
    140
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Model G seems to give good explanation of things but isn't it a bit too "social" ? Meaning it being a bit more about "social presentation of types" while the "truth/depth of a type" would be more like model A.

  6. #46
    Petter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    190
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    Im not sure it suppose to "contain energy".
    I don't think so... that was mu4's suggestion.

    This article tell us that spending energy make us generate information. It seems that information itself contain no energy, it can be viewed as a information sting in a specific order, but creating or finding this information and fitting it and making sense of it does consume energy.
    I agree with all of this, but the question still remains: how do we distinguish between psychic energy and physical energy?

  7. #47
    Petter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    190
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    There could be a correlation but not necessarily a causal effect between psychic energy and dimensionality. I think intelligence(general and specific) can factor here. Psychic energy may not even be function strength it might be an aspect of the human organism that may display as function strength but different aspect vs what socionics attempts to measure.
    I sort of agree with you here, but it is very difficult to comment since we don't know if there is a psychic energy in the first place, and we don't know how to distinguish between it and physical energy. And we certainly don't know if Gulenko's model is accurate.

    Once again there is probably a correlation but there's no need to be causation. Function strength is already seen to be mutable by various subtype theories. A contact subtype of a D (DCNH) subtype would have accentuated and thus perhaps stronger than .
    I disagree completely with this. DCNH is inaccurate. Both Ne and Te are either strengthened or weakened.

    I'm not sure if you understand what I've said.
    Neither am I.

    The flow of information if changed would change type, if ILE all of a sudden the preferred information flow went from Ne->Ti to Ne-Fi then they would have changed types, or perhaps created an alternated TIM(dissociative identity disorder is a thing). This wouldn't change function strength either. From my study of various dissociative disorders, this is entirely possible, some dissociative identity disorders can be visually blind in one personality vs another and this can be confirmed via neural imaging, the vision receptors are simply shut off due to some trauma. I assume many more changes to the brain can occur via trauma, physical or psychological. However even if preference changes to trauma, strength might still be preserved. The model is only a efficient ideal of a information metabolism, but it has really no bearing on the possible variation that exists, which can be as inefficient in many ways as long as what is necessary eventually occurs.
    OK. And I agree with you.

    I'm not sure what you're asking, information preference and valued functions are the same in socionics.
    No, and this is important. Preference, strength and dimensionality refer to the same thing. This is about INTEREST. "Valued" functions or "verbal" functions is about IMPORTANCE.

    I'm not sure what you're asking, information preference and valued functions are the same in socionics.
    Anyways I'm not sure how much knowledge you have of neuroscience or cognitive science so you may need to learn a lot more before approaching the theoretical aspects of this topic.
    "I also want to note it's entirely possible that for some individuals one ego function is heavily favored and the other subdued."

    What do you mean by "subdued" here? Are you saying that the dominant/leading function can be subdued???

  8. #48
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    I agree with all of this, but the question still remains: how do we distinguish between psychic energy and physical energy?
    Usually we do not need to distinguish in what kind of energy some objects state are at. Energy is just energy.
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

    * Tigerfadder
    has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM




  9. #49
    Petter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    190
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    Usually we do not need to distinguish in what kind of energy some objects state are at. Energy is just energy.
    Yes, but it is called psychic energy. Why?

  10. #50
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    Yes, but it is called psychic energy. Why?
    So since we had this chat. Internals and Externals is probably opposite in introverted than in the diagram. What I find interesting also do not fully understand is the "control" element. It is suppose to be least energy but high in information. Like the lazy element which we use to take control over situations. While in Model A it is the ignoring. It is cool but is it like information can be "draged out" of the person or bought? Loved to hear your thoughts.
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

    * Tigerfadder
    has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM




  11. #51
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    So this is what it looks like when merged with Model A
    https://ibb.co/b5zfXa
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

    * Tigerfadder
    has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM




  12. #52
    🌹 Art Nouveau 🌹 Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    IEE-Fi SX/SO 3w4
    Posts
    6,661
    Mentioned
    512 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    So this is what it looks like when merged with Model A
    https://ibb.co/b5zfXa
    What's with the green and red dots, just quantity?


    "Surrealism... is the magical surprise of finding a lion in a wardrobe, where you were sure of finding shirts." - Frida Kahlo

  13. #53
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    What's with the green and red dots, just quantity?
    Green dots made it 4D = 4 dots and 1D = 1 dot.
    Red is the energy. High equals 4 dots and low equals 1 dot.
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

    * Tigerfadder
    has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM




  14. #54
    🌹 Art Nouveau 🌹 Chae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Germany
    TIM
    IEE-Fi SX/SO 3w4
    Posts
    6,661
    Mentioned
    512 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    Green dots made it 4D = 4 dots and 1D = 1 dot.
    Red is the energy. High equals 4 dots and low equals 1 dot.
    Thanks!


    "Surrealism... is the magical surprise of finding a lion in a wardrobe, where you were sure of finding shirts." - Frida Kahlo

  15. #55
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,230
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    The spins are not relevant for this thread. Do you understand the difference in what Model A and Model G try to explain?
    It's just Gulenko trying to align Socionics to his own opinion of himself. LII in Socionics is not considered a good type. It's almost like Gulenko spent years of his life increasing the solidity of Socionics only to realize that he sealed his own self into negative stigma and now has to find a way to completely alter the structure of Socionics so he doesn't look bad.

  16. #56
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremy8419 View Post
    It's just Gulenko trying to align Socionics to his own opinion of himself. LII in Socionics is not considered a good type. It's almost like Gulenko spent years of his life increasing the solidity of Socionics only to realize that he sealed his own self into negative stigma and now has to find a way to completely alter the structure of Socionics so he doesn't look bad.
    No all types are equal by value. LII is superficial the most intelligent of the types. Model G add the energybar to the elements.
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

    * Tigerfadder
    has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM




  17. #57
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,230
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Soupman View Post
    Partially by the stereotypes which can be reliable as a heuristic guess, however, I have an LII friend from university with a very high IQ and he defies Viktor's assertion that LII create impractical and unworkable systems. He wouldn't be a supercomputer programmer and researcher if he wasn't intelligent enough to devise workable systems, which are also logically consistent and elegant.

    In modern science and engineering, models are supposed to be both workable and logically consistent. Theoretical research is supposed to pave the way to practice - everything must be reinforced empirically.
    Any of the types can jump off into the deep end of their own type's respective pool.

    Your friend is probably a pretty normal LII and person, but still an LII. Whereas your friend is chilling in the shallow section of the pool enjoying the cool water and nice day, Viktor is 5'5", bobbing in 7' water, hollering at others to come see how cool bobbing is. Then he gets a muscle cramp from not waiting long enough after sammiches.
    Last edited by Jeremy8419; 06-02-2017 at 07:59 PM.

  18. #58
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,230
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    No all types are equal by value. LII is superficial the most intelligent of the types. Model G add the energybar to the elements.
    Well, you asked a question and I gave you the answer. It doesn't take me long to look at something and get the reasons and motivations behind it.

    Model G started as an inversion of sorts, mixing things around here and there. When it had no "buy-in," he retrospectively made it so that it could be used in conjunction with Model A without disregarding Model A. However, you can't tack something onto Model A without changing the semantics of Model A. So while he says, well I'm adding this on but it doesn't change Model A, everyone else is scratching their head in the Kiev/Russian Socionics community saying yeah but it does change Model A...

    In Socionics, the LII is not an objectivist. It is not a constructivist. It is not a positivist. Each of these things means something, and the LII does not like these thing when they become aware of them, due to their own 1D functions.

    Viktor, for whatever reason, eventually realized the map he helped complete, had what it was reeeeallllyyyy saying sink in, and didn't like it. It's basically his own version of the J/P flip, letting him partially flip LII into positives associated with ILI on the objective front, while relinquishing some of LIIs negatives.

    Heck, petters/tellus has been doing the same thing for several years now, trying to holograph the LII so that its reeeaaallllyyyy a positive, constructive, and objective type, only he started in the reverse order and slapped an ILI sticker on himself and is now trying to rewrite all the elements to make the ILI use the elements he uses and in that order while trying to keep the positive stigmas of ILI.

    The whole thing is goofy and transparent as heck.

  19. #59
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    2,230
    Mentioned
    39 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mu4 View Post
    There could be a correlation but not necessarily a causal effect between psychic energy and dimensionality. I think intelligence(general and specific) can factor here. Psychic energy may not even be function strength it might be an aspect of the human organism that may display as function strength but different aspect vs what socionics attempts to measure.

    Once again there is probably a correlation but there's no need to be causation. Function strength is already seen to be mutable by various subtype theories. A contact subtype of a D (DCNH) subtype would have accentuated and thus perhaps stronger than . I'm not sure if you understand what I've said.

    The flow of information if changed would change type, if ILE all of a sudden the preferred information flow went from Ne->Ti to Ne-Fi then they would have changed types, or perhaps created an alternated TIM(dissociative identity disorder is a thing). This wouldn't change function strength either. From my study of various dissociative disorders, this is entirely possible, some dissociative identity disorders can be visually blind in one personality vs another and this can be confirmed via neural imaging, the vision receptors are simply shut off due to some trauma. I assume many more changes to the brain can occur via trauma, physical or psychological. However even if preference changes to trauma, strength might still be preserved. The model is only a efficient ideal of a information metabolism, but it has really no bearing on the possible variation that exists, which can be as inefficient in many ways as long as what is necessary eventually occurs.

    I'm not sure what you're asking, information preference and valued functions are the same in socionics.

    Anyways I'm not sure how much knowledge you have of neuroscience or cognitive science so you may need to learn a lot more before approaching the theoretical aspects of this topic.
    TIM is already dissociative. Each of the TIM are a dissociation between their 4D and 1D functions, with the level of dissociation present objectively being the measure of how different they are than other people. Normies are balanced on their elements. Sure, you can microscope a normie and be like hmmm it appears you have a very slight disconnect between X and Y, but otherwise you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Supervision in Socionics provides a bridging of that cognitive disconnect.

  20. #60
    Petter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    190
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    So since we had this chat. Internals and Externals is probably opposite in introverted than in the diagram. What I find interesting also do not fully understand is the "control" element. It is suppose to be least energy but high in information. Like the lazy element which we use to take control over situations. While in Model A it is the ignoring. It is cool but is it like information can be "draged out" of the person or bought? Loved to hear your thoughts.
    I am skeptical of Model G. How does he go from the dichotomies (master/slave, stable/unstable etc.) to the model? Is there any evidence for these dichotomies?

  21. #61
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    I am skeptical of Model G. How does he go from the dichotomies (master/slave, stable/unstable etc.) to the model? Is there any evidence for these dichotomies?
    where can i find those?
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

    * Tigerfadder
    has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM




  22. #62
    Petter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    190
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    where can i find those?
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...er-examination

  23. #63
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    From http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...er-examination

    Number Title of position The complex features The essence of the behavior
    1 Management Leading, stable, externalities Management through the promotion of
    2 Creative Leading, unstable, externalities Taking into account the implementation of the local conditions
    3 Role Driven, sustainable, externalities Short-term storage of
    4 Launcher Driven, unstable, externalities Arousal as a result of the perception
    5 Suggestive Driven, sustainable, internality Long-term storage of
    6 Brake Driven, unstable, internality Inhibition as a result of the perception
    7 Controlling Leading, stable, internality Control via the restriction
    8 Demonstrative Leading, unstable, internality The introduction of local conditions contrary to
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

    * Tigerfadder
    has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM




  24. #64
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    I am skeptical of Model G. How does he go from the dichotomies (master/slave, stable/unstable etc.) to the model? Is there any evidence for these dichotomies?
    What would you have picked for a energy-model? I think Gulenko is pretty much observation-based and the question if we should accept it or not is how accurate the end model is or not. If we look over how offensive the slave/master dichotomy is in the words (and we can not by this small sample of information tell what it really means) it is nice with a energy-model.
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

    * Tigerfadder
    has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM




  25. #65
    Petter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    TIM
    ILI
    Posts
    190
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    What would you have picked for a energy-model? I think Gulenko is pretty much observation-based and the question if we should accept it or not is how accurate the end model is or not. If we look over how offensive the slave/master dichotomy is in the words (and we can not by this small sample of information tell what it really means) it is nice with a energy-model.
    I am not even sure we need an energy-model. Doesn't Model A (or Model B etc.) indirectly show which functions have high and low energy?

  26. #66
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    I am not even sure we need an energy-model. Doesn't Model A (or Model B etc.) indirectly show which functions have high and low energy?
    there is probably new findings and relations in socionics to be find by using the energymodel.
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

    * Tigerfadder
    has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM




  27. #67
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

    * Tigerfadder
    has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM




  28. #68
    Tigerfadder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    755
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    From the Socion we can assume that each quadra bare the values of these elements:
    Alpha Si
    Beta Ti
    Gamma Ni
    Delta Fi
    Because the corrector/locker of the next quadra each got two strong elements (4D) of the two following quadras. And each "opener of the quadra" got 4D of what can read the past quadra. And the "stabilizer" have the same function as what said over as their lead. Cool?
    if you wish to see the truth then hold no opinion for or against

    * Tigerfadder
    has reached 500 posts!* 04:52 PM




Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •