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    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
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    I intend to look into research about Sleep and post any interesting conclusions in this thread. Others of course can post as they see appropriate.

    Sleep takes up a significant part of our lives but we generally don't spend anywhere near as much time thinking about it as we do other activities, and if we do, it is generally immediately before or after indulging in it.

    I would like to know:
    -what the optimal ways of sleeping are (i.e. in terms of effectiveness, efficiency, physical & mental health, comfort, and so on).
    -what role personality and disorders have on our experience of sleep: e.g. do differences in personality affect the optimal ways of sleeping? (this is relevant to the first point).
    -general information about the correlation between various factors and various aspects of sleep.

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    I've read somewhere that introverts needed more sleep than extroverts..
    Just googled it : https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...eep-extraverts

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    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    I've read somewhere that introverts needed more sleep than extroverts..
    Just googled it : https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...eep-extraverts
    A therapist I had when I was 12 told me this (he said that's why I needed more sleep). He also introduced me to MBTI and typed me as INFP
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    It's so weird, I feel much more tired and in constant need of sleep after getting back to my boring (predominately indoors) work routine. I felt much better and slept less when I was traveling and being physically active.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    I went through a weird time a few months back where I was having regular dreams of reading from the same strange book that seemed like a bible. I was actually mumbling the words as I slept...

    I also had a dream where I was hearing (and mumbling) a song I hadn't even finished writing yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    A therapist I had when I was 12 told me this (he said that's why I needed more sleep). He also introduced me to MBTI and typed me as INFP
    Parents really need to be more careful when it comes to sending children off to therapists. It can just strengthen the feeling they have that there's something wrong with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post

    Parents really need to be more careful when it comes to sending children off to therapists. It can just strengthen the feeling they have that there's something wrong with them.
    I did have a lot of things wrong with me as a kid, tbh. Dyscalcula, ADD, selective mutism, overwhelming anxiety, etc. My teachers were the ones to suggest I get outside help to my parents because I never spoke, and that really wasn't normal or healthy. Why is therapy such a bad or taboo thing? It's not like they were trying to pray away the gay or anything.

    That one in particular was a family therapist. My parents were going through a divorce and my dad wanted us all to see one. I think having the ability to talk about that stuff saved me from falling into a depression at the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

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    If I'm too tired I just tend to fall a sleep without thinking my state that much. People have laughed at this tendency of mine – unconsciously attending towards comfort. Sleep itself is something I don't really prefer to do. I like to keep my mind active.

    One of the most bizarre thing about Jung is focus on sleep.

    My dreams are not that exciting. They are actually very boring and mundane compared to my awaken mind.

    It is actually interesting to think about Australian Aboriginals habits because of extensive focus on dreams (if I had understand correctly).
    Last edited by unsuccessfull Alphamale; 09-17-2016 at 06:43 AM.
    From me one can not demand and expect:
    • practicality of ideas;
    • punctuality and diligence;
    • consistency and completeness;
    • constant order in the home and in the workplace;
    • quality of routine work;
    • soft skills to adapt to the interlocutor.


    Anal Expulsive personality (no hyphens for you)

    So called false dual logic that actually reveals some remote potentials:
    "sure crocodiles can fly, but very, very close to the ground"
    Just think about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resonare View Post
    I went through a weird time a few months back where I was having regular dreams of reading from the same strange book that seemed like a bible. I was actually mumbling the words as I slept...
    How many of founders of religious practices were Se (and possibly Ni) egos?

    I had recurring nightmares about military (where I did compulsory time [I'm still against the practice]).
    From me one can not demand and expect:
    • practicality of ideas;
    • punctuality and diligence;
    • consistency and completeness;
    • constant order in the home and in the workplace;
    • quality of routine work;
    • soft skills to adapt to the interlocutor.


    Anal Expulsive personality (no hyphens for you)

    So called false dual logic that actually reveals some remote potentials:
    "sure crocodiles can fly, but very, very close to the ground"
    Just think about it.

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    From my own experience, having a day that is full and varied (perhaps with novel activities) leads to better sleep and better dreams. I have tended to be ambivalent towards things like "meditation" and mindfulness" because although I believe the evidence may say they are advantageous for various aspects of well-being, I do not seem to have significantly benefited from them when I have attempted them: this may be a matter of putting time aside in a conducive environment and being able to "switch-off". However, I have noticed that while attempt to fall asleep that if I focus only on positive experiences (or basically, anything positive), and make an effort to deviate myself away from negative thoughts and worries, this is actually beneficial sleep and dream-wise. This may seem somewhat obvious, but it took me years to appreciate. Of course there may be good reasons why you would not want to engage in such a strategy, at least some of the time.
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    I've noticed that I tend to start dreaming right before I fall asleep. Not sure if others have noticed this?

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    I remembered reading from somewhere before that there is this thing known as sleep cycle, and each sleep cycle lasts for 1.5 hours. When it comes to having adequate sleep at night, it doesn't matter how many hours you sleep, but what matters most is you need to get this 1.5 hours of sleep at night without having your sleep cycle being disrupted, and it's also recommended that you sleep in quantities of 1.5 hours, for example:


    1.5 hours
    3 hours
    4.5 hours
    6 hours
    7.5 hours
    9 hours


    I also remembered reading from somewhere before that people who are left-brained tend to be morning larks, while people who are right brained tend to be night owls.
    Last edited by Hermit Soul; 09-18-2016 at 07:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starfall View Post
    I did have a lot of things wrong with me as a kid, tbh. Dyscalcula, ADD, selective mutism, overwhelming anxiety, etc. My teachers were the ones to suggest I get outside help to my parents because I never spoke, and that really wasn't normal or healthy. Why is therapy such a bad or taboo thing? It's not like they were trying to pray away the gay or anything.

    That one in particular was a family therapist. My parents were going through a divorce and my dad wanted us all to see one. I think having the ability to talk about that stuff saved me from falling into a depression at the time.
    Maybe it was justified in your case then. My parents say that doctors tried to diagnose me with similar conditions because I didn't talk much at all until I was about 3, but it turned out I just didn't like talking . I think we've grown accustomed to over-diagnosing children and telling them there is something wrong when there isn't or very little that doesn't warrant therapy.

    Quote Originally Posted by unsuccessfull Alphamale View Post
    How many of founders of religious practices were Se (and possibly Ni) egos?

    I had recurring nightmares about military (where I did compulsory time [I'm still against the practice]).
    No idea, but IxIs seem to have an interest in studying religion.

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    I think on average people in general need from 7-9 hours of sleep, optimally. I've always been a weird sleeper (circadian rythyms very messed up and at times inverted) and function best on around 10 hours of sleep. I regularly sleep for 2-4 hours at night though, go to my classes, fall asleep that night at 5 am and get my sleep during the coming daytime hours. (My classes are Mon Weds Fri)You may find this article about night owls interesting: https://aeon.co/ideas/sex-drugs-and-...nd-psychopaths

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    It takes my active mind at least an hour to enter a sleeping state. I've observed that I need more sleep compared to the average person to function my best. Now and then I'll stay up and write an entire paper in a night, and the following morning I'm basically a zombie.

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    Performance and mood following variations in the length and timing of sleep.
    Psychophysiology. 1973 Nov;10(6):559-70. Taub JM, Berger RJ.












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    Morningness–eveningness, sleep–wake variables and big five personality factors.
    Personality and Individual Differences Volume 45, Issue 2, July 2008, Pages 191–196
    Christoph Randler











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    I've been seeing a sleep doctor every 1-2 months for the past year and a half. My sleep studies and history indicate that I have primary, idiopathic insomnia. I also regularly experience anomalies like sleep paralysis, hynagogic hallucinations, and lucid dreaming.

    My mom says that I rarely slept, even as an infant, and would play by the night-light all night as a small child. It would be extremely debilitating to have to go to school on such little sleep. I started sneaking NyQuil and Benadryl in middle school, but those kind of medications don't allow for restful REM sleep. I currently take Temazepam and Tizanidine every night, but I'd probably prefer horse tranquilizers, as even these medications fail to put me to sleep 20% of the time, and I regularly wake up after just 2 hours of sleep.

    Insomnia is linked with neuroticism, and some researchers have focused specifically on its connection with perfectionism. I tend to score low or medium-low on neuroticism, but I certainly become more unstable and tearful on days when I've barely slept. My perfectionism is a bit pathological though. Perseveration and rumination about my mistakes don't interfere with my sleep, contrary to the expected correlation, but there's an aspect of "letting go" of myself when going to sleep that can feel unsettling to me. I'd say it's more related to control issues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by April View Post
    I've been seeing a sleep doctor every 1-2 months for the past year and a half. My sleep studies and history indicate that I have primary, idiopathic insomnia. I also regularly experience anomalies like sleep paralysis, hynagogic hallucinations, and lucid dreaming.

    My mom says that I rarely slept, even as an infant, and would play by the night-light all night as a small child. It would be extremely debilitating to have to go to school on such little sleep. I started sneaking NyQuil and Benadryl in middle school, but those kind of medications don't allow for restful REM sleep. I currently take Temazepam and Tizanidine every night, but I'd probably prefer horse tranquilizers, as even these medications fail to put me to sleep 20% of the time, and I regularly wake up after just 2 hours of sleep.

    Insomnia is linked with neuroticism, and some researchers have focused specifically on its connection with perfectionism. I tend to score low or medium-low on neuroticism, but I certainly become more unstable and tearful on days when I've barely slept. My perfectionism is a bit pathological though. Perseveration and rumination about my mistakes don't interfere with my sleep, contrary to the expected correlation, but there's an aspect of "letting go" of myself when going to sleep that can feel unsettling to me. I'd say it's more related to control issues.
    You sound like the Sleepless. Have you read Beggars in Spain, by Nancy Kress?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    You sound like the Sleepless. Have you read Beggars in Spain, by Nancy Kress?
    I haven't. That does sound like the perfect name for my people though.

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    Apparently, sleep positions say something about character. For instance: Soldier position - rigid and silent, dutiful, Freefalling - assertive and extraverted.
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    Sleep is for losers. Pointless and time-wasting and I feel really bad if I do too much of it (like today.)

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    the specialist who looked at my sleep study this spring was able to determine i was on an SSRI/SNRI just by looking at my REM sleep. he said i had fewer occurrences of REM than people not on such meds - and that this is a consistent pattern with people. he also said that studies have found that depressed people (not on meds) often have more REM sleep than those who aren't depressed (he thought it was "unnatural").

    i'm ending my experiment of trying to get away from serotonin support (back on the SNRI) because i can't seem to process anything hardly without it - it's great that i can deal with the mood disturbances now like a pro or whatever, but unfortunately mood support isn't the only thing serotonin seems to help with. i think my brain is too damaged maybe to function without it. i was aware that without the serotonin i was having way more dreams, but i couldn't remember hardly any of them - my sleep seemed awash with overlapping dreams (chaos). the days were chaos too, more than usual.

    in most of my depressive episodes (aside from the more recent ones, which more reflect a breakdown of cognitive functioning) i've felt weighed down by how much stuff i have to process/work through. a night's sleep and the help that dreams provide, doesn't clear the mass of it. when awake, i'd write poetry and paint or draw trying to work through it and it always felt like i just needed more time and i could eventually "solve" it. it would make sense that dreams would go on overdrive too - the mind doesn't stop trying to resolve it when you are sleeping.

    i found this article - it doesn't seem to say anything mind blowing, but does say that SSRIs and SNRIs suppress REM sleep. i find it really disturbing personally. but i guess i'm locked in the med labyrinth for now.
    Last edited by inumbra; 09-23-2016 at 04:10 PM.

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    ah @inumbra, I'm wary of people who (perhaps) imply that antidepressants are "unnatural" (in a prerogative sense), although his claimed observations are interesting, especially if true!
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    http://www.byrdie.co.uk/best-time-to-sleep

    In terms of a specific sleep time, sleep expert Shawn Stevenson told Yahoo! that the optimal sleep schedule would be from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. because of our body’s natural circadian rhythm and the fact that it mimics the sun’s rising and falling. Dr. Matt Walker, head of the Sleep and Neuroimaging Lab at the University of California, Berkeley, agrees, telling Time.com, “When it comes to bedtime, there’s a window of a several hours—roughly between 8 PM and 12 AM—during which your brain and body have the opportunity to get all the non-REM and REM shuteye they need to function optimally.”

    Your own unique “perfect” bedtime within that window depends on genetics—some people are more naturally pre-disposed to be night owls, while others prefer to sleep earlier and wake up early. So, if you don’t tend to get sleepy until 11 p.m., don’t force yourself to go to bed at 9 in the hopes you’ll wake up feeling more refreshed. Most likely, this will backfire and you’ll toss and turn and wake up feeling groggier than if you had just gone to bed when you naturally started feeling sleepy.’

    The Sleep Trick

    If you’re trying to pinpoint the exact time, the easiest way is to go backwards. Figure out what time you need to wake up in the morning and subtract seven to eight hours, adding about fifteen minutes for your body to fall asleep. Do this for about 10 days and Michael Breus, PhD, a board-certified sleep specialist, tells Yahoo! that you should start naturally waking up a few minutes before your alarm sounds.
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    A study published this year, for example, found that people 25 and younger say they almost never dream in black and white. But people over 55 who grew up with little access to color television reported dreaming in black and white about a quarter of the time. Over all, 12 percent of people dream entirely in black and white.

    Go back a half-century, and television’s impact on our closed-eye experiences becomes even clearer. In the 1940s, studies showed that three-quarters of Americans, including college students, reported “rarely” or “never” seeing any color in their dreams. Now, those numbers are reversed.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/02/health/02real.html
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    I've been waiting for you Satan's Avatar
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    i try to go to bed at 9:30 pm every night, but have been failing a lot recently.

    i take ashwagandha, time-release melatonin, and magnesium glycinate to help me sleep.

    i sleep 7 to 9 hours a night generally. if i short sleep i tend to take a nap in the afternoon.

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