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Thread: How do ESIs show love? (ISFjs)

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    Default How do ESIs show love? (ISFjs)

    Tell me your experiences or observations.
    There is the popular ESI gaze and I wonder if they do that to everyone or just the people they're interested in/attracted to.

    Edit: The ESI gaze I'm talking about looks like this:
    michael-fassbender-630.jpg

    IMG_20160908_014025.jpg
    Last edited by TheHiddenJack; 09-25-2016 at 11:16 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kye View Post
    Tell me your experiences or observations.
    There is the popular ESI gaze and I wonder if they do that to everyone or just the people they're interested in/attracted to. And do they confess that they love someone? Since LIE is the one who takes initiative for friendship always but the ESI as a sensory type is the one who initiates romantic/sexual interest, and defines a distance only slowly bringing people closer in that psychological distance, they must be the first one to confess their attraction or else the LIE with poor Fe is gonna be confused about her/his feelings.
    Interesting observations.
    I'll add something later, when I have more time.

    P.S. ^ I've seen that face before. First one is probably Se, second is Fi.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-08-2016 at 02:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kye View Post
    Tell me your experiences or observations.
    There is the popular ESI gaze and I wonder if they do that to everyone or just the people they're interested in/attracted to. And do they confess that they love someone? Since LIE is the one who takes initiative for friendship always but the ESI as a sensory type is the one who initiates romantic/sexual interest, and defines a distance only slowly bringing people closer in that psychological distance, they must be the first one to confess their attraction or else the LIE with poor Fe is gonna be confused about her/his feelings.
    My mom is ESI so obviously she showers me with her motherly, Fi-based love lol.

    -She likes to send me texts throughout the week, especially when she knows I've been down in the dumps (basically she's very sensitive to my emotions and takes action)
    -When I visit she makes me nice hearty meals and lectures me lol (on morals, being responsible, etc)
    -She reminds me to keep in touch with my brother and to stay in constant communication with him. She likes to tell me specifics in how I should engage my brother "ask him about his job, ask him what he's up to" etc.

    tl;dr- "For ESIs, connections with others mark a predominant and over-arching life focus. Though close contacts for ESIs often tend to be sparse, when ESIs find a degree of mutual respect towards others, they can be deeply empathetic, compassionate, and loyal. They may emphasize close connections and mutual understanding with others above all other things."

    --

    As for your specific case, I dunno man. I think you're overthinking it. Just ask her out lol

    I think using socionics to tell whether someone likes you will just drive you crazy/in your head.

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    My own experience: They buy you clothes and things, they cook meals for you. Very attentive to your physical needs. They appear to lack emotional boundaries though, can easily get affected by your moods. Hard to stay mad at them. It's kind of like they merge with the emotional state of who ever is nearby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConcreteButterfly View Post
    My own experience: They buy you clothes and things, they cook meals for you. Very attentive to your physical needs. They appear to lack emotional boundaries though, can easily get affected by your moods. Hard to stay mad at them. It's kind of like they merge with the emotional state of who ever is nearby.
    Hmm sounds very ESI, the physical care. I don't know about not having emotional boundaries though. What I guess is that they can't keep that psychological distance they always have for too long with the LIE. The LIE just tries to push and push those boundaries. but I do agree that they are strongly affected by the moods of the person they're with and can very quickly understand what mood you're in. They're all about moods!

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    Fassbender - INFJ

    > ESI as a sensory type is the one who initiates romantic/sexual interest

    initiate relations is more about exrtaverts

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    وزير‎‎ lungs's Avatar
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    I have a tiny circle so even as much as opening up to you and going out of my way to maintain regular contact means a lot from me. I'll think about you at random times and text and let you know maybe something reminded me of you, etc. I offer help when it looks like you could use it. I show an interest in details of your life maybe to the point of nosiness and be fascinated and accepting to a degree I'm not with others.

    Meals, maybe..I cook for my boyfriend but not for other adults usually. Lacking emotional boundaries? If somebody is upset sometimes I get tense from the radiating energy and wanting to help if that's what cb meant.

    I think that esi gaze is just esi gaze lol. When I communicate love with my eyes it's softer and more straight on, more obviously catching eye contact.

    I initiate but people here say that's atypical for esis. I've usually said the L word first.

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    i feel like fassbender might be ego but i really am not sure

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    he looks lse in that pic
    "...Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly" (the Skin Horse)

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    i feel like fassbender might be ego but i really am not sure
    He could be SLI.

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    Fassbender is one of my favorite gingers.

    As for ESIs, in my experience they can be really great listeners and staunch supporters. Like they'll be very firm with their support to the point where they'll try to move me forward even if I'm not sure I want to. They also can be very good at saying what they really think but in a "I care about you" way. That might not work for everybody, but I personally appreciate it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalinoche View Post
    he looks lse in that pic
    But if he is looking for a feisty woman (http://www.independent.ie/style/sex-...-30265735.html), then he is probably not LSE. LSE like their women "not feisty".

    From Google images of him, maybe ILI or ESI, slight possibility LIE (I used to have a coat like that), less likely SLI or LSI. I'd have to see him acting to form a better opinion.

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    if LSEs did not like feisty women they would not have SEEs as their benefactors
    "...Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly" (the Skin Horse)

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalinoche View Post
    he looks lse in that pic
    My point is the look on his face in that photo only, not his type in the film nor in his life

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    But if he is looking for a feisty woman (http://www.independent.ie/style/sex-...-30265735.html), then he is probably not LSE. LSE like their women "not feisty".

    From Google images of him, maybe ILI or ESI, slight possibility LIE (I used to have a coat like that), less likely SLI or LSI. I'd have to see him acting to form a better opinion.
    Did you just use the type of coat you both wear to type him?!

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    This thread is going irrelevant places people! Please focus on my question. We can start a thread about Fassbender's type later. Respectfully.

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    Through actions

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    وزير‎‎ lungs's Avatar
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    actions are my preferred love language when i can find opportunities that are appropriate (i hate meddlers and meddling). i'm not great with verbal affirmations even though i'm sentimental. i'll send you a love poem i find that reminds me of you but i'll probably have an easier time setting myself on fire than pushing the same stuff that's in the poem out of my mouth.

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    per aspera ad astra Chae's Avatar
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    I noticed that too, ESI will get active sfor the person they love. Very service-oriented. The NFs are into verbal affirmations because of their idealism, SFs are more pragmatic. Confessing? Only through indirect means ("I did it for you"). SEE is much more into declarations, while ESI will subtly show their level of affection by adjusting their routine, going out of their way of doing something, etc. Because they are cutely stubborn, they are prone to verbal denial but their lack of coherence gives everything away

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    وزير‎‎ lungs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kye View Post
    Well that is good so, since I as an LIE don't like verbal affirmations of love. For example if someone tells me that loves me, my first reaction is "where is your evidence?". But I think ESIs like love poems overall and can write a hell of a love poem. Writing a love poem is not verbal affirmation to me, since in order to write a poem, one's emotions have to be deep. So that is related to duals worthifying the same things again.
    Btw, what do you ESIs like about LIEs? I don't understand why a conservative, calm and moral person, the ESI, would idealize and like a person as dynamic and sometimes inappropriate as LIE. But there is an observation , ESIs don't judge LIEs as much as they judge other types. They are more accepting towards our flaws. Why is that?? Same with LIEs, we accept ESI's flaws easily.
    Thank you for your response
    I wouldn't know from any experience. I can only say what sounds good theoretically from descriptions (a clear headed approach to problems, being able to calculate risk)

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    I wouldn't know from any experience. I can only say what sounds good theoretically from descriptions (a clear headed approach to problems, being able to calculate risk)
    So you have never met a LIE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kye View Post
    So you have never met a LIE?
    Other than people in passing I've thought might be LIE, nope. I have a co-worker I think might be LIE that I never talk to, and an old college friend who might have been LIE or LSE. But not enough data.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lungs View Post
    Other than people in passing I've thought might be LIE, nope. I have a co-worker I think might be LIE that I never talk to, and an old college friend who might have been LIE or LSE. But not enough data.
    How about LIEs you meet online? You can gather data from them!!

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    وزير‎‎ lungs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kye View Post
    How about LIEs you meet online? You can gather data from them!!
    Then the prognosis isn't great lol

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    I'm pretty sure the woman who sometimes cuts my grass is ESI. (She is slightly over 30, which is outside my eight-year-range limit for romantic interests.) About a year ago, I asked her to go to a park on a Saturday for a walk and some conversation (for me to try to get to know ESI's better, and in return, she could also get to know LIE's better, - purely platonic, and I explained this to her) and she laughed at me and said, "That's not happening."
    I said, "Why not? It's just a walk in the park. There are hundreds of people there, and after all, you know where I live."
    She said, "I'd have to introduce you to my father, and that is not going to happen."

    So, add to the difficulties of getting to know an ESI: strong family orientation, extreme caution around strangers, initial response to anything is "No".

    On the other hand, I have worked with a gay male ESI-Fi for five years, and we get along pretty well. Great, actually. He is smart, competent, firm in his resolve, reliable, quick to point out when I'm either being stupid or am correct, and I overheard him defending me to some guys once. So, loyal. I guess those are some good points.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 09-09-2016 at 07:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    I noticed that too, ESI will get active sfor the person they love. Very service-oriented. The NFs are into verbal affirmations because of their idealism, SFs are more pragmatic. Confessing? Only through indirect means ("I did it for you"). SEE is much more into declarations, while ESI will subtly show their level of affection by adjusting their routine, going out of their way of doing something, etc. Because they are cutely stubborn, they are prone to verbal denial but their lack of coherence gives everything away
    I'm not sure what you mean by how ESIs get active for the person they love, or how their lack of coherence gives them away?
    But that is absolutely true. Service-oriented and stubbornness
    Last edited by TheHiddenJack; 09-25-2016 at 11:17 AM.

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    per aspera ad astra Chae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kye View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by how ESIs get active for the person they love, or how their lack of coherence gives them away?
    But that is absolutely true. Service-oriented and cute stubbornness
    What I mean by getting active: ESI will leave their comfort zone to show support. When you say you're going on vacation, they offer to water your plants. Or, as Adam said, they will defend you in a precarious situation (#1 dualization skill of aggressors). They spend irregular time talking to you or someone connected to you.

    The lack of coherence is about the discrepancy of how they act and what they do. ESI might be calm and collected (trying to prove that they are not attached) but is falling apart on the inside, that's why they perform all these non-routine services.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    What I mean by getting active: ESI will leave their comfort zone to show support. When you say you're going on vacation, they offer to water your plants. Or, as Adam said, they will defend you in a precarious situation (#1 dualization skill of aggressors). They spend irregular time talking to you or someone connected to you.

    The lack of coherence is about the discrepancy of how they act and what they do. ESI might be calm and collected (trying to prove that they are not attached) but is falling apart on the inside, that's why they perform all these non-routine services.
    Thanks for your reply. That is very true, I have observed traits like that also. It would be nice if they just made it obvious what they hide and not annoy themselves, not fall apart from the inside though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    What I mean by getting active: ESI will leave their comfort zone to show support. When you say you're going on vacation, they offer to water your plants. Or, as Adam said, they will defend you in a precarious situation (#1 dualization skill of aggressors). They spend irregular time talking to you or someone connected to you.
    This is very interesting. As predicted, I worked with this ESI-Fi for four years before I "noticed" him, or figured out that he is ESI-Fi. He seemed like nothing at all. I did notice that we never disagreed, exactly, and that he seemed to like talking with me (we both often work late), but it was no big deal, really. Just another guy, except I get along with him slightly better than I do with most people. Then one day a bunch of guys are 'way down the corridor, and I can hear them discussing pay, and that they thought I make too much money. (I don't. I'm probably below market rate.) The ESI-Fi was there, too, and he just lit into those guys, saying Who else could do that job? but in a tone of voice that was like hitting them with an ax handle. I thought to myself, Whoa, I'm glad I'm not on the wrong end of that. I was also surprised at the force with which he said it, because he never expressed any special liking for me, before that or after.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    The lack of coherence is about the discrepancy of how they act and what they do. ESI might be calm and collected (trying to prove that they are not attached) but is falling apart on the inside, that's why they perform all these non-routine services.
    So my other job is Parking Lot Attendant, where I park cars on my lawn during football games. I called the ESI-Se woman who cuts my lawn and asked if she was available to cut it, and she said Sure, I'm fully booked today, but how about Monday?, but then she realized that I wanted the grass cut for parking, and she said she'd find time to do it that same day. And she did.
    (This is the woman I had asked to the park a year ago, and she said No.)
    So the next day, I'm out there on the street, trying to get cars to park in my "lot" when she drives up and I say to her Hi! Thanks for cutting the grass It looks great, and she says I had to do that after dark, you know. And I said, so how much do I owe you? and she said $50 and I gave her $80 and she said You paid me too much and I said You did too good a job and she smiled a really beautiful smile. She has beautiful eyes. And I noticed that she has a bruise under one eye and I said Did your boyfriend beat you up? and she nodded at the Pitbull in the back seat and said "I was just playing with Outlaw" and I thought it was funny that she named her dog "outlaw" because that is how most people think of LIE's. And all this time we're joking around she's smiling and I'm thinking she's really attractive and I'd be an idiot to carry that thought any further, and another car pulls up and wants a parking spot and she breaks eye contact as she puts her car into gear and her face momentarily falls apart into introspection and anxiety and then she's off and I'm standing there and the scalpers across the street are all looking at me instead of hawking their tickets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kye View Post
    Thanks for your reply. That is very true, I have observed traits like that also. It would be nice if they just made it obvious what they hide and not annoy themselves, not fall apart from the inside though.
    No problem. And well, it's your job to make them feel in a safe zone. Mutual trust is the royal discipline for the ESI x LIE dyad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    No problem. And well, it's your job to make them feel in a safe zone. Mutual trust is the royal discipline for the ESI x LIE dyad.
    Yes, I do that subconsciously actually. Good reminder

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    No problem. And well, it's your job to make them feel in a safe zone. Mutual trust is the royal discipline for the ESI x LIE dyad.
    Mutual trust is present in every healthy relationship regardless people's types.
    Sylvia Plath — 'I desire the things which will destroy me in the end.'
    IEI 4w5

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    Quote Originally Posted by zloty View Post
    You've got some balls on you IMO to go asking that question.

    Supposing you were married, and your wife came home and told you that she accepted an offer to go for a "walk with a nice man in the park but he said it was platonic and I believed him", there wouldn't be a rammy in your home that night?
    She's not married, you moron. She doesn't have a BF, either. Plus, ESI's can handle themselves perfectly well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zloty View Post
    I may be a moron but I know asking a woman that question especially in the situation you were in even if she is a black belt in karate will not be taken as a no strings attached walk in the park.
    I don't know if your concern is that the woman may be attacked, but apart from that in my cultural background (western Europe, more north than south) taking a walk with someone is a neutral thing to do. Does it have specifically romantic connotations for you?
    Reason is a whore.

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    per aspera ad astra Chae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    Mutual trust is present in every healthy relationship regardless people's types.
    Sure. But staying within the context of Socionics: the Gamma quadra places special emphasis on it. Compare us to Alpha types whose relationships are heavy on (having potential) and (some sort of elation). Trust - knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest - is a lot more within / territory. Ni considers implications derived from the degree of affiliation and how it is treated. Betrayal (the dark side of trust) will hurt more than because of Gamma's long term thinking. Who do you think will recover faster when their partner betrays them, ESE or ESI? ESI, who is also more likely to break up as a consequence, will dwell a lot more and will refuse to enter a new relationship unlike ESE, who will look for a distraction to cope or give their partner another chance because they see their potential. Which is ESI's weak point. So well, trust has to be present for healthy relationships, but every case values trust in a different manner, depending on what important factor (=function) they find fulfilling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Sure. But staying within the context of Socionics: the Gamma quadra places special emphasis on it. Compare us to Alpha types whose relationships are heavy on (having potential) and (some sort of elation). Trust - knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest - is a lot more within / territory. Ni considers implications derived from the degree of affiliation and how it is treated. Betrayal (the dark side of trust) will hurt more than because of Gamma's long term thinking. Who do you think will recover faster when their partner betrays them, ESE or ESI? ESI, who is also more likely to break up as a consequence, will dwell a lot more and will refuse to enter a new relationship unlike ESE, who will look for a distraction to cope or give their partner another chance because they see their potential. Which is ESI's weak point. So well, trust has to be present for healthy relationships, but every case values trust in a different manner, depending on what important factor (=function) they find fulfilling.
    I don't fully agree, what do you do with Fi PoLR persons? And still they are Fe valuers.
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    per aspera ad astra Chae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zloty View Post
    The problem I have with that is to imagine having a partner who would work against my sphere of interest.

    Recovery is dependent on many factors.

    I also disagree with your socionic explanation, both Ne and Ni is capable of seeing how a breakdown in trust could spiral into so many issues in the present or in the future.

    So what do you? Does Ni handle it better because they've got the "vision" to see how things will improve in the future? So maybe non Ni types aren't better at it at all, it seems too loose to me to put a socionic handle on a basic thing, which is mutual trust in well any type of partnership I can think of even team work it's required a bit.

    If you have troubles imagining, let's switch bodies for a day Very well. When the primary issue is breaking of trust, recovery primarily depends on that. And Ni is not about how things improve, that's Te /plus/ Ni. Ni itself is just a time function: "A leads to B; if _____, then _____." And Ne: it sees all sorts of consequences (the difference is quantity) and acts according to Ti or Fi. Ni is always blocked with Te or Fe so it's either a practical or emotional forecast, but always a one way street unless the lower functions interfere. You don't have to debate trust as a basic team work principle, we are talking about it within romantic ESI boundaries here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Persephone View Post
    I don't fully agree, what do you do with Fi PoLR persons? And still they are Fe valuers.
    Do what exactly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Sure. But staying within the context of Socionics: the Gamma quadra places special emphasis on it. Compare us to Alpha types whose relationships are heavy on (having potential) and (some sort of elation). Trust - knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest - is a lot more within / territory. Ni considers implications derived from the degree of affiliation and how it is treated. Betrayal (the dark side of trust) will hurt more than because of Gamma's long term thinking. Who do you think will recover faster when their partner betrays them, ESE or ESI? ESI, who is also more likely to break up as a consequence, will dwell a lot more and will refuse to enter a new relationship unlike ESE, who will look for a distraction to cope or give their partner another chance because they see their potential. Which is ESI's weak point. So well, trust has to be present for healthy relationships, but every case values trust in a different manner, depending on what important factor (=function) they find fulfilling.
    This is absolutely true. Trust, and knowing your partner will act within your sphere of interest, is everything.

    My first GF, an LSI, and I were having relationship problems. Perhaps she was trying to apply some pressure. She decided to get really drunk with some friends at her place and one of the guys spent the night there. She told me the next day that nothing had happened, that she hadn't cheated, but as soon as I heard that, we were all done. Trust was gone. (It turned out for the best. She's now married to an ethical guy, possibly an EIE.)

    One very strong factor in deciding to marry my SLI ex-wife was the sense I got that she was rock-solid faithful, and would always be on my side. (That, plus the fact that I could tell she would be a good mother and had good taste in clothes and furnishings - I can see now that I was subconsciously looking for ESI traits.) And she has been. Even though we are divorced, she still stops by briefly every couple of weeks to say hi, and to ask how I'm doing. We're not getting back together (Adam shudders - the last couple years were not great), but she does still show loyalty and support. It helps that we actually like each other and are friends. Too bad she can't stand living with me. Or maybe it's not too bad, since we both now have a chance to find better partners. She replaced me with a cat, I'm still looking.

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