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Thread: EII-INFj Friendship Advice

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    Default EII-INFj Friendship Advice

    I have an EII friend.
    Last edited by Iwantpeace; 09-06-2020 at 11:58 AM.

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    You and she are in a Mirage relationship (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...rage-Relations), which I find can feel very comfortable when just hanging out together, but my mirage partners and I give each other really bad career advice.

    If you want to be super-nice, you could try to find an LSE for her (she got close to having an LSE when she found you, but was slightly off the money), but she is not guaranteed to like him, or him, her.
    Or, you could tell her about Socionics and hand her a description of LSE's and say "This is the guy you want. Find one, spend some time with him, check him out if you don't believe me."
    If this sounds like too much work, maybe it is. Ultimately, don't you have better things to do with your life than to try to fix the world and everyone in it? Maybe she'll find an LSE on her own. She does seem like the kind of person an LSE would want to take care of.

    If your relationship with her is hurting you now, it might be best to put even more space between the two of you, because it is not going to get better.

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    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
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    Back off from her, she sounds like an emotional vampire.

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    (OT but @hag , your avatar is gorgeous <3 )

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    To the OP, I've been like your friend when I was clinically depressed and both AdamStrange and @hag have good advice. Good luck and don't worry

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    Quote Originally Posted by hag View Post
    oh, but thank you! it is a still from Hedgehog in the Fog.



    yes, especially if they are enneagram 4. they will dig themselves into a hole with their misery. they are exhausted with themselves. it's difficult to reach them at that point. they will take almost everything as an offense, even flattery, and use it to reinforce their own (perceived) inferiority. it takes tremendous willpower for themselves to recognize that a lot of their own misery is self-perpetuated. they don't necessarily need an LSE, but a 'reality check' (cringe) to set them straight again.

    now, if OP's friend truly is depressed, only a therapist can help here. depression is a persisting issue, not merely a bout of sadness. depressed people often underestimate the intensity of their own symptoms, and may need to be convinced into getting help. don't abandon her, don't enable her, but try to support her unconditionally nonetheless.

    it's too bad that therapy is extraordinarily pricey in the U.S., most therapists don't accept insurance nor are they covered. you pay by the visit and in full. therapy has become a pastime for the rich.
    Yes that is correct. My sister is a 3w4

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    Arete GuavaDrunk's Avatar
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    Reason is a whore.

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    Understanding one's impact on another can be challenging for a Se-PoLR, especially with an absence of external input. The imagination of possibilities, while surprisingly accurate at times, can build a misleading internal framework, too. Her habits of how she treats you can get very far from the reality of what they need to be.

    To emulate an LSE (and thus perhaps have the best chance at penetrating her haze), I might try saying matter-of-factly how what she does (or doesn't do) makes you feel (the feeling part might be easier to articulate since you're ESE). And then suggest some concrete alternatives that would make you feel better. If you can, say exactly what you're willing to do and what you don't want to do, and then what you'd like from her. It probably won't go over well in the moment, but minimizing your own emotional output for that conversation will help minimize damage. Don't let it turn into a fight. It sounds unfair, especially since you're taking on yet another emotional labor plus you have your own feelings to tend. But one positive factor is that at least you can set some explicit boundaries.

    Side note: LSEs supposedly have angry outbursts when they're overly-upset. Something like that could indeed jar her into greater awareness, but I'm not sure it would have the best long-term effect. The problem with outbursts is things can get said that aren't really true. And this situation seems to need loving truth.

    If that conversation goes really badly and she is super offended then you might need to let her go for awhile. After she calms down and absorbs what she can of your words (this is why it's important to be super clear, with a minimum of emotions to confuse the matter) and if she has a desire to be healthy, her internal framework as it applies to you might shift and you could slowly test out more contact again. It's important during that phase that you be kind but firm and stick to exactly what you said in the boundary-setting conversation. So it's important you know what you want.



    Hag said a lot of what I just said, I realize.

    In any case, I admire you for wanting to both help her and be healthy yourself. Good job!
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Minde's Avatar
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    @sorrowsofyoungwerther I read what you wrote before you edited and I wanted to say that it does sound unhealthy Se-PoLR-ish of her. And also / especially that you shouldn't feel bad about your own interests. You do not sound at all like a shallow person.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    inabox's Avatar
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    also note, I've been in op's friend's place and ... can we not assume that duality is magical, lol? I was clinically depressed when I had problems like the op's friend and what I would have needed was some of mental health help ( @hag, you made the best points) .

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    Duality is certainly NOT magical. However, this is a socionics forum and sometimes tailoring an approach according to type can help. Sometimes.
    Oh, to find you in dreams - mixing prior, analog, and never-beens... facts slip and turn and change with little lucidity. except the strong, permeating reality of emotion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    You and she are in a Mirage relationship (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...rage-Relations), which I find can feel very comfortable when just hanging out together, but my mirage partners and I give each other really bad career advice.

    If you want to be super-nice, you could try to find an LSE for her (she got close to having an LSE when she found you, but was slightly off the money), but she is not guaranteed to like him, or him, her.
    Or, you could tell her about Socionics and hand her a description of LSE's and say "This is the guy you want. Find one, spend some time with him, check him out if you don't believe me."
    If this sounds like too much work, maybe it is. Ultimately, don't you have better things to do with your life than to try to fix the world and everyone in it? Maybe she'll find an LSE on her own. She does seem like the kind of person an LSE would want to take care of.

    If your relationship with her is hurting you now, it might be best to put even more space between the two of you, because it is not going to get better.
    Haha lol let's be honest guys duality isn't a magic bullet, there are equal possibilities that it could tank.

    However the LSE is a strange alien to EII, contrary to what people actually think, they don't process the emotional BS EII spew out. They don't comflate the emotionality since it's none existent in them, this is the reason there is no risk of clashing as is between the ESE and EII. This is very fascinating when you gradually learn to observe these facts about them.

    An important asterisk for favourable interaction are that the LSE must be dualised, willing to embrace the alien EII, whilst the EII who doesn't seem to be from the looks of it, must be willing to take a leap of faith with the proposal, if you have a dualised LSE on hand.

    What the EII will find is that the LSE is unaffected by such emotional issues, being rather active and busy with their chaotic demands life affirms. They'll see a ruler stern and incontrol of their territory.
    Last edited by Soupman; 09-21-2016 at 09:19 PM.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    I'm usually very good at putting my interests and complaints aside to be a friend and a companion, to listen and take in the emotional concerns of the friend. So, I can't relate to this thread
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    LSE let's my emotions run their course while being supportive that is by "making sure things are right there ready and waiting." Organized lol
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I'm usually very good at putting my interests and complaints aside to be a friend and a companion, to listen and take in the emotional concerns of the friend. So, I can't relate to this thread
    Well you are a healthy person so it is to be expected

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    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    I'm usually very good at putting my interests and complaints aside to be a friend and a companion, to listen and take in the emotional concerns of the friend. So, I can't relate to this thread
    How do you stand being among the mortals all day?

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    LϺαο Not A Communist Shill's Avatar
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    I suggest you tell her to write down how she feels and attempt to make some order from the chaos. You should also perhaps tell her that she would benefit from engaging in many of the activities you both used to enjoy.

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    Darn Socks DirectorAbbie's Avatar
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    "Sometimes I will honestly tell her I think she is in the wrong. When that happens the conversation comes to a pretty quick end" That's not a good sign. And it's NTR, as I don't know of any LSEs who would shy away from telling someone they're wrong.

    But please send your friend to me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ritella View Post
    Over here, we'll put up with (almost) all of your crap. You just have to use the secret phrase: "I don't value it. It's related to <insert random element here>, which is not in my quadra."
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquagraph View Post
    Abbie is so boring and rigid it's awesome instead of boring and rigid. She seems so practical and down-to-the-ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther View Post
    ..........She struggles with staying focused on goals, social situations,confrontation or criticisms of any kind, and homework. She seems to be offending people unintentionally and has trouble following instructions in school............She doesn't even realize sometimes she is insulting me, by criticizing them........
    This doesn't sound like any normal EII that I know. You may be dealing with a person that has a psychological condition or illness, which can also obscure the determination of type.

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