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Thread: Which quadra is this?

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    Default Which quadra is this?

    I wonder which quadra or type(s) is most likely to believe things like alternative medicine, esoterics, healing with energies, astrology, tarot readings and the power of nature as a healing force. Also refuses traditional medication, doesn't believe in medical industries and tend to be fairly critical towards medias or mainstream sources of information, might feel attracted to conspiracy theories and is overall spiritual in a sort of new age style, while incleaning more to eastern asian spirituality...


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    I think things pertaining to mysticism, astrology, divination etc. would be -related (if it was focused on some internal or hidden "truth"), but it should be considered that many astrologers and "astronomers" have been interested in such things throughout history.

    I think -types would be inclined to buy into alternative "medicine" too - I perhaps expect -types to be less prone to indulging.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subteigh View Post
    I think things pertaining to mysticism, astrology, divination etc. would be -related (if it was focused on some internal or hidden "truth"), but it should be considered that many astrologers and "astronomers" have been interested in such things throughout history.

    I think -types would be inclined to buy into alternative "medicine" too - I perhaps expect -types to be less prone to indulging.
    There is a whole subculture of people with these interests and it's very popular nowdays so I was wondering weather it's quadra related. To me it seems more Si+Ne so I thought maybe deltas might be like this, but I can see why you think Ni valuers could have such interests too, but I don't really see this sort of spiritual hippie idealogy in beta quadra, I think it's more delta. (But I am not really sure, that's why I asked).
    I think alphas or gammas wouldn't be interessted in things like this at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    There is a whole subculture of people with these interest and it's very popular nowdays so I was wondering weather it's quadra related. To me it seems more Si+Ne so I thought maybe deltas might be like this, but I can see why you think Ni valuers could have such interests too, but I don't really see this sort of spiritual hippie idealogy in beta quadra, I think it's more delta. (But I am not really sure, that's why I asked).
    Yes, I can believe that. (Often though trying to attribute something wholly to all of quadra's values is problematic).
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    I think believers in mysticism and alternate medicine can't be reliably grouped into a single quadra.

    Having said that, I notice this trait in a lot of IEI's. I don't think it is entirely due to being Ni-dom, though, because I haven't run across any ILI's who have these beliefs. Maybe it is Ni, unbounded by Te.

    On the other hand, my LSE sister considers herself to be a "healer", and she does this by laying on of hands and feeling one's "energy", and then recommending some alternate medicine as a remedy. And she is a pharmacist! The only way I can explain this is that she likes to incontrovertibly tell people what to do, and she has been married to an IEI for many years, and she is really, really trying to adapt to him, in every way possible. He does believe in auras, Dora.

    With respect to believing in conspiracy theories, I have read that unhealthy LIE's can do that. I know an LIE woman who thinks immigration is a plot by the government to subvert America, and there are holding pens underneath shopping centers all across the Mexican border for the immigrants, just waiting until they reach critical mass to effectively infect the good American schools with diseases transmitted by bodily fluids in close contact. ( Dr. Strangelove, anyone?) Maybe this is 3D Ni or Ne running amok in a sheltered individual.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 08-27-2016 at 12:24 PM.

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    Not always type related I've seen Ni weak type into this as well.

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    esoterics is more common for Ni valued quadras

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    I wonder which quadra or type(s) is most likely to believe things like alternative medicine, esoterics, healing with energies, astrology, tarot readings and the power of nature as a healing force. Also refuses traditional medication, doesn't believe in medical industries and tend to be fairly critical towards medias or mainstream sources of information, might feel attracted to conspiracy theories and is overall spiritual in a sort of new age style, while incleaning more to eastern asian spirituality ... You know what kind of people I mean.
    According to the quadra descriptions by Strati it's predominantly Delta types, though I've also also seen "miracle workers" among ESFx types (in these cases the financial motivation was emphasized in their "miracle work").

    One problem arises here: this search for new wonders sometimes corrupts the potential "miracle worker", especially if his ambition has no limit, his conscience is lacking, and his moral foundations are not too strong.

    In this way, for example, in an effort to show herself as an outstanding folk healer, one sweet lady of type IEE, Huxley, a physician's assistant with extensive work experience, experimented with the healing properties of raw potatoes on her children and grandchildren, insisting on them being a universal alternative to all existing medicines. Using raw potatoes as a supposed effective remedy for healing wounds, she forbade her children to treat their cuts and wounds with a disinfectant (a solution of alcohol or iodine) and instead made them hold a tampon filled with grated, raw potatoes to their cuts. Many times she has tried this household "curative" remedy, and the result was always the same: an abscess would start, the child suffered, she urged him to be patient and wait a little longer: "The pain will soon pass and you will feel good!". Only when the inflammation was rampant and the children developed a fever, would she send them to a clinic and allow them to get treated there. (Feverish and sick, they had to sit in reception, wait in line for their turn, then explain themselves before the doctors.) Over the years, she ran such experiments alternately on her children and grandchildren, who lived under the same roof with her for a long time, who were under her constant influence, under her watchful medical supervision, fully trusting and obeying her in all, despite the fact that her tips each time brought them to trouble. Ignoring the real, the actual results of this "therapy", she cheerfully reported about the alleged successes to her friends, telling them about the miraculous properties of the raw potato, and urged them to practice this method, referring to the fact that "for her grandson these potato lotions helped". Expanding her circle friends, she announced and asserted herself as a successful folk medicine healer, and continued to use the people in her household as a reserve for new experiments.

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    My mother is like this to an extreme and she is IEE (delta).

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    Usually IEE's (vast majority ime), but also certain IEI's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    With respect to believing in conspiracy theories, I have read that unhealthy LIE's can do that. I know an LIE woman who thinks immigration is a plot by the government to subvert America, and there are holding pens underneath shopping centers all across the Mexican border for the immigrants, just waiting until they reach critical mass to effectively infect the good American schools with diseases transmitted by bodily fluids in close contact. ( Dr. Strangelove, anyone?) Maybe this is 3D Ni or Ne running amok in a sheltered individual.
    Wouldn't it be more like an (unhealthy) IEI thing?

    Ni dom for noticing complex patterns of events. Te PoLR for being unattached to objetive facts (that is, not "subdued" to external evidences), and Ti HA for building the needed framework that supports what already has been decided to be true. So it seems to me that IEI is the best equipped type for falling into such "bad inclinations". Not saying that others types cannot do this, just that they could be particularly susceptible to them.

    Also the reaction you're describing in your example sounds to me a bit strange for a LIE. Beyond the idea itself, why a LIE would be so "worried" about that?. I mean, this reaction sounds typical for someome quite attached to her own country, which is a groupal entitiy. The source of a threat would be in other two ("evil" in this case) groupal entitites (immigrants, government). Seems to be a behaviour which fits much better in an unhealthy individual of an aristocrat quadra, not a democratic one.

    The behavior sounds also "defensive". I mean, even in the case of a very unhealthy phobic E6 LIE, the only LIE I can see conceiving such kind ideas, it seems... too much. The natural behavior of a LIE shouln't be being stopped by fear (they can and do feel fear, of course) of what has to come, but... calculating how to adapt and survive to it.

    If the Illuminati are real and are doing questionable things and managing the world in the shadows... I should join them! Sounds more like a LIE reaction. Pointing out its "evilness" is more "I would like to be a hero for my people" thing, typically an aristocrat quadra member reaction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    I wonder which quadra or type(s) is most likely to believe things like alternative medicine, esoterics, healing with energies, astrology, tarot readings and the power of nature as a healing force. Also refuses traditional medication, doesn't believe in medical industries and tend to be fairly critical towards medias or mainstream sources of information, might feel attracted to conspiracy theories and is overall spiritual in a sort of new age style, while incleaning more to eastern asian spirituality...


    You know what kind of people I mean.
    "Traditional" medication wouldn't be western medication. A lot of things are turning to shit these days. And the drug industry is one of them. It's all fueled by money.

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    I know an ESTp health maniac into this stuff, and of course a few IEIs.

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    I've seen a shit-ton of Deltas park themselves squarely in this territory and stay there and advertise their location. Yes, some other people will play with mysticism or whatever in various ways, but for totally going with the alternative kumbaya and kombucha off-the-grid healer thing, I'll have to give Delta the win.

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    I see tarot and astrology as seperated from the other things - many different people deal with these things or believe in them (many Ni egos and SEE's, ESE's as well), occult, bizzare and paranormal things are very Ni as well, but the vegeterian, anti - medication, alternative medicine, conspiracy theories, healer thing is largely Delta NF - and annoying af at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    I wonder which quadra or type(s) is most likely to believe things like alternative medicine, esoterics, healing with energies, astrology, tarot readings and the power of nature as a healing force. Also refuses traditional medication, doesn't believe in medical industries and tend to be fairly critical towards medias or mainstream sources of information, might feel attracted to conspiracy theories and is overall spiritual in a sort of new age style, while incleaning more to eastern asian spirituality...


    You know what kind of people I mean.
    The gay quadra.

    (sorry, I'm childish)

    I don't think it's really type related (same as religion, astrology, etc.) I know an IEI Ni who is super into this stuff. I have an ESI aunt who is into New Age stuff as well; she went to Paris to take a course on spiritual healing and even took us all on a trip to Sedona Arizona once because that area is supposed to be a New Age hot spot with vortexes. Every time I see her she has a new pseudoscience obsession which she viciously defends and stands behind.
    Last edited by Starfall; 08-29-2016 at 01:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    Usually IEE's (vast majority ime), but also certain IEI's.
    Why do you think IEEs over IEIs? I understand that Si seeking might be into alternative medicine and healing, but conspiracy theories and mysticism is Ni valuing so beta over delta... I know these characteristics might sound conflicting, but I know people who are into all of this stuff. I personally find it annoying too, that's partly the reason why I want to know if it's Ni or Si valuing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    Why do you think IEEs over IEIs? I understand that Si seeking might be into alternative medicine and healing, but conspiracy theories and mysticism is Ni valuing so beta over delta... I know these characteristics might sound conflicting, but I know people who are into all of this stuff. I personally find it annoying too, that's partly the reason why I want to know if it's Ni or Si valuing.
    I don't think it's that strictly type related (either Ni or Si), you could easily find an ESE who's into all of these stuff. I find it annoying as well, and so does my EIE mum for example, but I do know some IEI's who are such believers. Sorry, can't help you more, I was just talking about general trends.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    Why do you think IEEs over IEIs? I understand that Si seeking might be into alternative medicine and healing, but conspiracy theories and mysticism is Ni valuing so beta over delta... I know these characteristics might sound conflicting, but I know people who are into all of this stuff. I personally find it annoying too, that's partly the reason why I want to know if it's Ni or Si valuing.
    You're probably asking because you can't decide between you being IEI or IEE, right ? Fwiw, I think you're IEI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    Why do you think IEEs over IEIs? I understand that Si seeking might be into alternative medicine and healing, but conspiracy theories and mysticism is Ni valuing so beta over delta... I know these characteristics might sound conflicting, but I know people who are into all of this stuff. I personally find it annoying too, that's partly the reason why I want to know if it's Ni or Si valuing.

    I agree with you in the conspiracy theory correlation with Ni, particularly in the IEI case (see my answer to Adam Strange). It is basically strong (and valued) Ni combined with weak Te.

    Mysticism... it depends on the kind. New Age is more a delta NF thing imo, as it has a lot of "naive idealism" components. Basically all of that connecting people with something greater for building a brighter and better future would be more delta (to a lesser extent, also alpha) than beta. The woman who was welcoming the aliens in Mars Attacks! movie, for example (IEE I think).

    BarbaraLand.jpg

    By the other hand, "dark occultism" (lack of a better word) is much more a beta (or in general, Ni) thing. Achieving knowledge reserved to a few chosen ones that will be elevated above the mundanes, sort of. The Psi Corps in Babylon 5 (Bester was clearly a beta rational).

    babylon007.jpg


    Of course there would be members of both (all) quadras in both situations, but I think a correlation is there, and in my personal observational experience, it is.
    Last edited by MensSuperMateriam; 08-30-2016 at 01:21 PM.

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    Is this actually quadra-related?
    We could find that out by listing our experiences with types that reject the described mentality/life approach.

    I myself am torn between spirituality and science so basically 50% esoteric 50% academic, it's difficult to say. But technically you can count me in.
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    I know several IEE's obssessed with conspiracy theories, so no to this being a Ni issue, although it sounds convenient. It's more unhealthy e6 thing, as I've said before.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MensSuperMateriam View Post
    I agree with you in the conspiracy theory correlation with Ni, particularly in the IEI case (see my answer to Adam Strange). It is basically strong (and valued) Ni combined with weak Te.

    Mysticism... it depends on the kind. New Age is more a delta NF thing imo, as it has a lot of "naive idealism" components. Basically all of that connecting people with something greater for building a brighter and better future would be more delta (to a lesser extent, also alpha) than beta. The woman who was welcoming the aliens in Mars Attacks! movie, for example (IEE I think).

    BarbaraLand.jpg

    By the other hand, "dark occultism" (lack of a better word) is much more a beta (or in general, Ni) thing. Achieving knowledge reserved to a few chosen ones that will be elevated above the mundanes, sort of. The Psi Corps in Babylon 5 (Bester was clearly a beta rational).

    babylon007.jpg


    Of course there would be members of both (all) quadras in both situations, but I think a correlation is there, and in my personal observational experience, it is.
    I like the idea of new age stuff being more delta while the darker side of spirituality is more beta. I agree on this one with you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    I don't think it's that strictly type related (either Ni or Si), you could easily find an ESE who's into all of these stuff. I find it annoying as well, and so does my EIE mum for example, but I do know some IEI's who are such believers. Sorry, can't help you more, I was just talking about general trends.
    Perhaps it is not type related, I can se why for example an ESI would be into this stuff. It's more about the motivation behind the action than the action itself. I am just generally interested in subcultures and how they might relate to quadras in socionics. Maybe I should make a new topic about this.
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    This reminds me of my Delta parents all the way, and my delta sister as well. Hope that helps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darya View Post
    I see tarot and astrology as seperated from the other things - many different people deal with these things or believe in them (many Ni egos and SEE's, ESE's as well), occult, bizzare and paranormal things are very Ni as well, but the vegeterian, anti - medication, alternative medicine, conspiracy theories, healer thing is largely Delta NF - and annoying af at that.

    I would mostly agree w this; although there is some overlap I think the "natural", eschewing-modern-medicine, vegan, antivax, etc type tends to be a lot more closed minded - they read about that stuff, decided to believe in it, and that was that. Often they just refuse to look at any opposing information.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fay View Post
    I wonder which quadra or type(s) is most likely to believe things like alternative medicine, esoterics, healing with energies, astrology, tarot readings and the power of nature as a healing force. Also refuses traditional medication, doesn't believe in medical industries and tend to be fairly critical towards medias or mainstream sources of information, might feel attracted to conspiracy theories and is overall spiritual in a sort of new age style, while incleaning more to eastern asian spirituality...


    You know what kind of people I mean.
    I have met IEIs, SLIs and SEIs like this.

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    This sort of thing is not so much type related as it is culture related. I know people from all quadras quite equally who engage in alternative medicine etc. In this thread it has been stated that IEEs often are into such things, and I can say for certain that this is not generally true. In my country, with its strong emphasis on a common sense health culture (i.e. we are very restrictive with prescribing medicine and especially antibiotics), it is far more likely for IEEs (of which we have quite a lot) to take a common sense attitude to this and not make a fuss about things, perhaps even more than other types. More in general I can say that this no-nonsense approach finds its origin in our Calvinist Delta culture. But I can surely imagine IEEs in a Delta hippie commune somewhere in the hilly countryside of New Zealand engaging into more esoteric types of behavior. And have a dream-catcher hanging in front of their windows ;-)
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