Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Why would Reinin type Fredrich Nietzsche as EIE??

  1. #1
    Zero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    My room
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    501
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Why would Reinin type Fredrich Nietzsche as EIE??

    How is that possible? I never connect to EIE's life philosophies but I connect to Nietzsche's. Also he didn't have the "showy" behavior typical of EIEs (no offense). And he has typed half of history's dictators and ill minded people as EIE. Why??

  2. #2
    Fembot Olimpia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    IEI-1Ni
    Posts
    6,547
    Mentioned
    537 Post(s)
    Tagged
    5 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kye View Post
    How is that possible? I never connect to EIE's life philosophies but I connect to Nietzsche's. Also he didn't have the "showy" behavior typical of EIEs (no offense). And he has typed half of history's dictators and ill minded people as EIE. Why??
    Haha, not entirely sure.
    I suppose he conflated Nietzsche's "pathos", low-key "emotionality" (deriving from 5w4, IMO), as well as his desire for the ‹bermensch (which is his Se-seeking IMO) with EIE.

    Anyway, I believe Nietzsche was ILI-Ni 5w4 So/Sp.
    There are some Socionists who believe he is IEI, and I actually used to think so, too. But no, he is Gamma. His Fi HA and w4 make him seem more like an "NF" than he truly is.
    4w5-9w1-5w6 So/Sx

    My typing blog [x]
    My theory blog [x]
    My tumblr blog [x]
    My film blog [x]
    Discord [x]


  3. #3
    silke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    TIM
    Ni-IEI sx/sp
    Posts
    3,789
    Mentioned
    317 Post(s)
    Tagged
    3 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kye View Post
    How is that possible? I never connect to EIE's life philosophies but I connect to Nietzsche's. Also he didn't have the "showy" behavior typical of EIEs (no offense). And he has typed half of history's dictators and ill minded people as EIE. Why??
    Reinin hasn't actually typed Nietzsche as only EIE. Both the translation of his book - his LII typings are listed at the end of profile - and his entry in the SSS famous people types database show that he typed Nietzsche as "Robespierre" or LII. Looks like he had some doubts about his type. Some of the votes from this forum have him at EIE - link.

    I think he was definitely in Subjectivist Ti quadra based on his assertion rejection there are no facts aka objectively correct information, which was discussed previously in the various Te-polr posts on this forum - "Friedrich Nietzsche: Against that positivism which stops before phenomena, saying "there are only facts," I should say: no, it is precisely facts that do not exist, only interpretations."

    which pretty much contradicts what is written about Te and Objectivist (Te/Fi) types:

    Objectivists have a notion of what constitutes "objectively known" facts, rules, laws, regularities held in general (common) experience; in their perception there exist rules and guidelines that are "true in general" and "always correct". They suppose that other people can have their own views and positions, but do not consider that any action can be viewed as correct/incorrect only from a certain point of view (they allow for the existence of "objectively correct" actions). Therefore, from the point of view of an Objectivist, actions can be different—subjective, determined by personal preferences and motives, and objective, where there is only one "correct", "most effective" way to do something. - the Wikisocion

  4. #4
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,129
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ni and Ti valuing
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

  5. #5
    Zero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    My room
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    501
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Reinin hasn't actually typed Nietzsche as only EIE. Both the translation of his book - his LII typings are listed at the end of profile - and his entry in the SSS famous people types database show that he typed Nietzsche as "Robespierre" or LII. Looks like he had some doubts about his type. Some of the votes from this forum have him at EIE - link.

    I think he was definitely in Subjectivist Ti quadra based on his assertion rejection there are no facts aka objectively correct information, which was discussed previously in the various Te-polr posts on this forum - "Friedrich Nietzsche: Against that positivism which stops before phenomena, saying "there are only facts," I should say: no, it is precisely facts that do not exist, only interpretations."

    which pretty much contradicts what is written about Te and Objectivist (Te/Fi) types:

    Objectivists have a notion of what constitutes "objectively known" facts, rules, laws, regularities held in general (common) experience; in their perception there exist rules and guidelines that are "true in general" and "always correct". They suppose that other people can have their own views and positions, but do not consider that any action can be viewed as correct/incorrect only from a certain point of view (they allow for the existence of "objectively correct" actions). Therefore, from the point of view of an Objectivist, actions can be different—subjective, determined by personal preferences and motives, and objective, where there is only one "correct", "most effective" way to do something. - the Wikisocion
    That is a point I missed. But here in the article about Reinin descriptions at the end of EIE description it is written Fridrich Nietzsche. I personally have always had the desire to believe there are certain facts and that is the exact part about Nietzsche that I don't connect to since he says facts do not exist, only interpretations. Thank you for your response.

  6. #6
    Zero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    My room
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    501
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Ni and Ti valuing
    Apparently he is an LII

  7. #7
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,129
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kye View Post
    Apparently he is an LII
    Yes but not evidently. Who's to say for sure? I've seen a very compelling argument for IEI as well.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

  8. #8
    Zero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    My room
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    501
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Yes but not evidently. Who's to say for sure? I've seen a very compelling argument for IEI as well.
    I personally don't think he is IEI at all. Maybe ILI

  9. #9
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,129
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kye View Post
    I personally don't think he is IEI at all. Maybe ILI
    Devalues Te, Values Ti. Borderline incoherent analogies at times. Heavy usage of metaphor. All Fe > Te.
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

  10. #10
    Zero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    My room
    TIM
    LIE
    Posts
    501
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Devalues Te, Values Ti. Borderline incoherent analogies at times. Heavy usage of metaphor. All Fe > Te.
    I agree that I myself almost never use "all" in my sentences. But I do use metaphors. And about the borderline incoherent analogies I think of Ni so I do that also. But I don't understand why he doesn't value Te? I think he values Fi more than Ti so LII is out of question but still can't fully grasp what makes him a Fe creative function.

  11. #11
    Pookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    TIM
    IEI-Ni 6w5-9-2 So/Sx
    Posts
    2,129
    Mentioned
    89 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I mean, I personally don't have an opinion. That was just the argument I can remember for Fe > Te, The not valuing Te thing, I think it shines through in the life he lived, and the way he relayed his message. You would have to be an Ni to parse through Nietzsche's writings if you were a Te. It completely lacks Te and it is his life work. There's no way a Te could ever write that IMO. But Silke did a better job above, with him outright stating that he doesn't believe to be true particular tenets which go hand in hand with Te. That seems only really possible with someone who doesn't value it.

    What makes you think Fi > Ti?
    I would say that ethically you are still supposed to act as if you have unilateral responsibility; but simultaneously you have to be able to see the other as a fully autonomous, free, aware person.

    Medicalizing social problems has the additional benefit of rendering society not responsible for those social ills. If itís a disease, itís nobodyís fault. Yay empiricism.

  12. #12
    Landlord of the Dog and Duck Subteigh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    TIM
    EII-Ne Sp/So
    Posts
    14,938
    Mentioned
    243 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Nietzsche seems to have been a very clear "introvert", although that of course is likely to be highly simplistic. (I currently type him IEI).
    EII-Ne
    5w4 or 1w9 Sp/So

  13. #13
    yeves's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    TIM
    Si 6 spsx
    Posts
    1,259
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kye View Post
    I personally don't think he is IEI at all. Maybe ILI
    there's not much of this in his writing (http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...ation_elements)

    Te Extraverted Logic: efficiency, method, mechanism, knowledge, work, reason in motion, direction of activity into its most logical course of action, "logic of actions", utilitarianism, expediency, benefit

    Te an evaluatory state of mind that directly assesses events and actions of other people from logical POV and openly voices those assessments, assessing and estimating productivity, efficiency, usefulness, rational sense of any given involvement venture or activity, steady and purposeful state of mind that leads to making rational actions despite the present sentiments

    Te as creative function in SLI (ISTp; Jean Gabin) and ILI (INTp; Balzac)
    This person very skillfully uses knowledge and facts, applies them creatively, an ideal lecturer, excels at giving instructions (he can, for example, teach skills needed for auto-maintenance). He can creatively and originally manipulate external objects that require hands-on work, assembly and disassembly. Many people of this type, as children loved construction toys. Fixing complicated household items is their favorite hobby, as this, after all, requires active application of objective logic. If such opportunities are not present, he may even deliberately break or deconstruct something and then proceed to fix it. At times, they may use an object not for the purpose that it was intended (e.g. using a microscope to drive nails). Such people are ideal as specialists for modernizing or upgrading anything, especially in the physical sense, as such a person has a keen eye for trends and laws of the objective world and knows how to isolate them and use them well. Sometimes he will move to a place where objective knowledge is scarce, somewhere far from civilization, where he will have a chance to demonstrate his knowledge and skill. He is well versed in the current laws and order, their advantages and disadvantages, and skillfully maneuvers within them. If he is stuck in traffic, he might plot a very original route using roadsides and sidewalks, and feels like a duck in water in this activity. Capable of holding a multitude of facts of the objective world and putting them to use. A very practical person, able to improve and modernize anything in surrounding territory, as to make it better and higher quality, "a jack of all trades." Such people have a set of rules for themselves, but they are very flexible - some of them can be gleaned over, some of them can be substituted - there is a somewhat manipulative view of these. He might follow one rule in the morning, but in the evening follow a very different rule, simply because the situation has changed. Because of this, it is very difficult to negotiate (do business) with him. If there is a contract, he may at some point cancel it, simply because it is no longer favorable for him. That is, he views rules as something that can be changed at any time upon request of the parties involved. Because of this, it is often difficult to deal with such people in a business capacity, as in the business sphere a contract is a contract, it is not subject to revision every day or week. But here, dealing with him, it must be a contract without penalties in the event of dissolution. It must be established beforehand that it is something impermanent - a temporary solution adopted for some short period of time.

  14. #14
    Don't forget the the thehotelambush's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    TIM
    LII
    Posts
    6,623
    Mentioned
    159 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    No way did Nietzsche value Te over Fe. He dramatically expressed his philosophy in poetry and colorful stories full of passion and hyperbole. Beta NF is clear.

  15. #15
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    1,233
    Mentioned
    67 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    My mom who I type as Te polr always says these ridiculous things like "The human mind is too small for scientist to be able to understand everything in the universe" whenever I use scientific evidence against her in a debate, which seems to match with what Nietzche said about there not being any facts. This viewpoint irratates me because to me its sounds like a cop out for not being able to understand things.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •