Very curious what others thoughts on semi-duality are.
Semi-duality relations in long-term relationships
Very curious what others thoughts on semi-duality are.
Last edited by Iwantpeace; 09-02-2020 at 09:31 PM.
stranger things have happened
I've been having frequent lunches for the past five years with an EII secretary who is my semi-dual. She is also an e2 to my e8. She is very sensible, very smart, funny, easy to hang out with, easy to talk to, has good career advice, is super-organized, has good taste, is tall and thin and dresses very well, and I have absolutely no physical attraction to her at all, despite her being very attractive.
I don't know if that answers your question, or helps at all. We've been getting along great for five years. I respect her and I think she respects me. I think physical attraction is an essential quality for a mate, but is a serious disadvantage for friends or people who work together.
I went to a high school reunion recently, and in the first awkward moments of arriving, I fell into a conversation with one of the women who organized the event. I knew her by name and by sight, but had never really said more than ten words to her before. But as we spoke, and spoke, and spoke, I realized that I was feeling the same easy familiarity that I feel with the secretary. She had a lot of the same, funny and sensible people observations that the EII secretary has, and I realized she might be a semi-dual. She eventually went off to greet other arrivals, but she later swung back around for more pleasant conversation. But again, there was no physical attraction.
And that wasn't just me being off my game. Another organizer of the event I met was an LSI (Mirage, or the other Semi-Dual), and I thought she was pretty hot.
You may be getting a lot done with your semi-dual because you aren't completely comfortable with them. I'm beginning to suspect that, for duals to move forward in life, they have to have pretty strong interests in something other than their dual.
I think I remember reading something about mirage romantic relationships being like the intense high school crush sort of thing, semi-dual as being the young adulthood partner you eventually drift away from, and dual as being the long-term partner you were really looking for the whole time.Originally Posted by sorrowsofyoungwerther
Anyway, one thing I have noticed is that semi-duals on the rational axis get on the best so maybe that has something to do with it? And the reverse seems true for mirage e.g. ENFp-INTp relationships.
Fe-types create a merry enviroment which is what both Ti types seek. Jung said somewhat strange stuff about ExE and LxI types, basically describing Ti-lead types as being a bit neurotic and in need of this kind of enviroment to balance themselves out. Then again, he also described ExEs as being materialistic and superficial so you might want to take this with a grain of salt
Last edited by Resonare; 08-23-2016 at 01:09 AM.
Good topic, looking forward to other people's experiences.
My viewpoint is pretty much set, inter-quadra relationships > SLE. I like Fi subtleness too much to stick around someone with a Fe HA romantically, which is automatically stronger since I am the Ni-subtype and draw in the SLE-Se by default.
A long-term SLE friend (not a partner) of mine always clashes with me because we are both very opinionated SX primaries. We trigger either love or hate among those around us, and that dynamic also transfers to us. Together, we are practically unmesswithable (kinesthetic intelligence + academic smartness = awesome unit) outwardly but our syn/con-flow issues are blatant these days (should I elaborate?), as well as the aristocratic/democratic differences. I'm always like, ohh, nice energy! I like that! But how can you treat outgroup members like that... stop manipulating them... why do you disrupt the work flow... why so abrasive in front of important people... what's with the inappropriate remarks toward this new person... :-/ And so on. I know where these issues come from but I can't approve, paradoxically. The SLE is almost a literal "Zhukov", a bit belligerent, calculating - which tends to irritate me, harming the friendship in return - we slowly drift apart. Yes, how I criticize the lack of ethics says something about my own ethical functions, too, I know - two T types don't really match up that well which is the unfortunate thing about SLE/ILI.
Being with a SEE can be too comfortable as you describe it, @sorrowsofyoungwerther, it's quite fitting actually.
The natural flow develops into something more exciting over time, though. Fi-Ni is a constant deepening, something I don't experience with my semi-duals. A SLE doesn't "melt" me like a SEE because the former has to be melted themselves by someone more pliant and indirect.
my sister and a friend who are both ese are in similar relations. great until live together, have sex and raise kids haha
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
From this thread. Note that Hugo = ESE and Maxim = LSI.
Gyugoshki (ESEs)
Our charming semi-dual. Relationships and marriages of the types Hugo + Maxim looks quite decent, but they are still birds of quite a different feather: ESEs gravitate towards social gatherings and parties – towards an enormous amount of indiscriminate communication, with everyone, and all too closely and immediately.
There's mutual support coming from base functions, but these partners are not able to resolve each other’s internal problems. The ESE doesn’t know how to analyze the soulful harmony of the LSI, doesn't know how to plan or predict emerging trends. Therefore, with internal conflicts the LSI will have to deal on his or her own. In the moments of emotional confusion and turmoil of the LSI, the ESE will offer inappropriate positives and various pleasantries, that are further enraging than they are helping. And vice versa: in ESE’s life and in their heads reigns chaos that the LSI doesn't know how to harmonize and order - Se only helps with soundness of explanations, and not with fine workings of Ti. As a result, the ESE listens to LSI’s careful explanations but still does something blatantly stupid that goes against all common sense.
The combination of introverted and extroverted sensing makes this couple very practical and socially well-adapted. Max earns money, while Hugo creates comfort in their home and takes case of their social standing. ESEs are often very good cooks, but personally, with my repressed introverted sensing I never chase after the "delicacies": I suffice with simple common products like fresh black bread and cheap tea. I like good food, but I absolutely do not care how it was cooked, while the ESE wants to converse about it. For me such information is noise that clogs and overloads my mind.
This is to say that the material sphere in a pair LSI + ESE is within a very solid grasp. However, there's this one, at times, unpleasant nuance: partial, or sometimes full extinguishment of the creative functions. Both are sensing types – both "put claims" to the material part of the world – and both are confident in their actions. As a result, in joint activities (for example, going to the store) a certain amount of nerves and energy is expanded on either taking initiative or waiting to be told, as it is impossible to divide responsibilities for all occasions of life. Often I would do some shopping, arrange things in the house, and the ESE will rearrange them or moves to another place, or does something a bit differently - in a word: corrects all my actions. This occurs with almost every step I take, even when it’s not needed. At first, this is ok, but later this becomes vexing. In this situation LSI's creative function is constantly spinning in different directions «to do / not to do», and, as a result, its activity and effectiveness are greatly diminished.
In bed ESEs are creative and demanding. They are inclined to teach – which is a subconscious waiting wish of a modest LII. Still they are "caregivers", not "victims". Not it. Too many preludes, reluctant acceptance of the need to take initiative, rejection of any strong grasps and squeezes. All ESEs are «mothers» in sexual sense and they need a "child-like" type and not an "aggressor".
In principle, LSI + ESE is a good match. But, dear LSIs, be prepared for the fact that your exertion of control in a pairing with ESE will seem very relevant and needed, but ESE, over time, will begin to run away from it. From the entirety of Alpha quadra, ESE is the best option for a serious relationship for an LSI.
A funny observation from automatic operation of the psyche: when hugging a SEI or an ESE the feeling is that you're hugging a pillow, soft and warm; if you try to squeeze it in your arms, then ... nothing happens. Nothing at all. Or: "Aiai, let go!” And the LSI is so eager for the reaction of a "victim" - with burning eyes that tell you "more!”.
Reason is a whore.
Oh, you stimulation junkie. This is what capitalism hath wrought!
Being needy for your semi-dual's Se is lazy, when it's open for you to develop on your own. In fact, failing to take action when you're with your dual is, your failure as a sensor. Our intuition provides the potential, you are supposed to step up and provide the kinetic energy. Stop attributing your faults to LIIs. (You can telll my feelings are hurt. )
Honestly though, in my experience, as much as I like a few select EIEs, there's a big difference between almost, and all-the-way. Maybe it's just your specific LII.
For ESE, compared to LII in LSI Se provides: greediness, lesser interest to pysical comfort and pleasure, boring superficiality, roughness. ESE prefer intelligent, smart people to care about pysically. Like any semi-dual LSI will give only a part of what you want in people near. And you'll get permanent values conflict in Se vs Si, lesser in Ne vs Ni.
LII having Ne may provide more ideas for "adventure and action", in more plesant for ESE way.
Activity in non-valued functions regions will not make you feel much better, while the lack of activity in your valued function will make you missing this.
But as your type may to be not ESE, so LSI may to be better for you. Similar is with your opinion about types of other people. So your experience here is doubtful.
I have never had a big intense crush on an ILE before, but this might simply be related to the fact I have not come across too many ILEs IRL at all, in particular none I found attractive.
(To be honest, those I have met were usually below average when it comes to grooming oneself, and for a lack of a better term "too nerdy". I am kind of nerdy myself. So, I don't dislike it per se, but I don't find it romantically/sexually appealing itself. When the main part of a guy's personality is him being nerdy, I won't be attracted to him. There would have to be more about him besides that for me to feel attracted, if that makes sense.)
Personally, I have a love affair with fellow Ethical types. Could be related to my strong Ni subtype, which "boosts" my Ti, and somehow weakens my Fe a bit. I am a pretty withdrawn person, with bouts of merriness in certain group situations. I spend a lot of time on my own, and hence see myself as being much less emotional than I actually am. Being w5 and having 5 in my tritype probably gives me more of this "logical bent", too.
In the past I have either been into men who were artistically inclined, aesthetes, with a good sense of dress and poise, while not being too effeminate and not afraid of their sexuality. Those were usually E4 or E9 ESI men. The other kind of man I tend to be attracted to is image-conscious, charming, charismatic, initiative-taking – "drawing me in". Basically, the typical xEE E3 guy.
I definitely tend to prefer Ethicals over Logicals, on average. With the latter, I find it tiring when I feel like they need constant help with how to conduct themselves in a social situation, or lack any initiative to "draw me out", both physically and emotionally. Also, I am simply not as "awed" by "intelligence" as many other Ethical (SF) women are. I am simply not into NT men sexually/romantically, for the most part. They come across as somewhat clumsy, inadequately adapted to real life (Alpha NTs), or too indecisive/soft or simply difficult because of Te ego (Gamma NTs). Those aspects may create some kind of feelings of sympathy, and conversations can be stimulating, but emotionally/sexually I just don't "feel" it. The Aggressor Romance Style is so much more sexier and exciting to me, to be honest. Anyhow, Fe HA Logical types are definitely preferred over all the other Logical ones, for those and more reasons. Having said that, I can enjoy the energy of LSI-Se guys – their boosted Fe helps a lot. I find them more attractive than SLE-Ti, even. SLE-Ti is too "closed off" and guarded for me.
Attraction-wise, I feel like LSI-Se, SEE-Se and SLE-Se are all around the same level for me.
SEE-Se as well as SEE-Fi win over both LSI-Ti and SLE-Ti – I am simply not into Logical subtype guys. They are too emotionally detached or "incapable" to me, seeming sort of bland, boring and unresponsive. I like to be "stirred up", drawn out. Also, they don't activate those unconscious "attraction triggers" of mine, which are mostly deriving from my childhood experiences. Look up "Imago", and you know what I mean.
I said that part wrongI meant more that I think I read somewhere that the stereotypical teenage relationship is between mirages.
I think that makes perfect sense. We're better off (romantically) with people that reinforce our weaknesses rather than strengths.
That sorta makes sense. I've read that we are normally not so aggressor because of Fi, but the asymetrical nature of benifit relationships could intensify the victim-aggressor dynamic with IEIs.
I googled "Imago" and it just came up with insects and business enterpriseI definitely tend to prefer Ethicals over Logicals, on average. With the latter, I find it tiring when I feel like they need constant help with how to conduct themselves in a social situation, or lack any initiative to "draw me out", both physically and emotionally. Also, I am simply not as "awed" by "intelligence" as many other Ethical (SF) women are. I am simply not into NT men sexually/romantically, for the most part. They come across as somewhat clumsy, inadequately adapted to real life (Alpha NTs), or too indecisive/soft or simply difficult because of Te ego (Gamma NTs). Those aspects may create some kind of feelings of sympathy, and conversations can be stimulating, but emotionally/sexually I just don't "feel" it. The Aggressor Romance Style is so much more sexier and exciting to me, to be honest. Anyhow, Fe HA Logical types are definitely preferred over all the other Logical ones, for those and more reasons. Having said that, I can enjoy the energy of LSI-Se guys – their boosted Fe helps a lot. I find them more attractive than SLE-Ti, even. SLE-Ti is too "closed off" and guarded for me.
Attraction-wise, I feel like LSI-Se, SEE-Se and SLE-Se are all around the same level for me.
SEE-Se as well as SEE-Fi win over both LSI-Ti and SLE-Ti – I am simply not into Logical subtype guys. They are too emotionally detached or "incapable" to me, seeming sort of bland, boring and unresponsive. I like to be "stirred up", drawn out. Also, they don't activate those unconscious "attraction triggers" of mine, which are mostly deriving from my childhood experiences. Look up "Imago", and you know what I mean.
I think your tastes are fairly normal, though I don't find ILE to really be like that.
Hmm, I'd agree that ESIs are not that Aggressor. They are actually the least Aggressor from all Aggressor types (esp. ESI-Fi; ESI-Se can be a bit different. Here is my ranking of the types.).
I've noticed ESI-Fi women can be fairly passive, for example. They might indirectly initiate, "poke" you, but then the ball is in your court and you have to do all the work.
I would not say that the victim-aggressor dynamic is intensified because of Benefit. LSI is still usually more Aggressor than ESI, and that is noticeable.
I find the impressive effect an ESI's Se can sometimes have on me is actually the strongest outside a romantic interaction.
And for an IEI-Ni, technically any Aggressor is fine in the bedroom.
Ha.I googled "Imago" and it just came up with insects and business enterprise
Read this.
That list looks accurate to me. For ESI (and LSI too) I think we just need a clear "come and get me" sign to dispel any possibility we may have locked onto. Unlike N types who are riddled with possibilities and want a cluster of signs to dispel of them, being Ne-polr we just get locked onto one and if that's the possibility that things will go ***s up then our inability to consider other possibilities can make us unable to unlock ourselves until it becomes unrealistic. I think "poking" is more of an extrovert thing.Hmm, I'd agree that ESIs are not that Aggressor. They are actually the least Aggressor from all Aggressor types (esp. ESI-Fi; ESI-Se can be a bit different. Here is my ranking of the types.).
I've noticed ESI-Fi women can be fairly passive, for example. They might indirectly initiate, "poke" you, but then the ball is in your court and you have to do all the work.
I would not say that the victim-aggressor dynamic is intensified because of Benefit. LSI is still usually more Aggressor than ESI, and that is noticeable.
I find the impressive effect an ESI's Se can sometimes have on me is actually the strongest outside a romantic interaction.
And for an IEI-Ni, technically any Aggressor is fine in the bedroom.
Ah, this didn't work for me. I could only list 3 positive traits for my parents and a couple of them were really pushing it
I'm skeptical about the whole thing but I think I recall @Adam Strange marrying his supervisor because of his relationship with his father (?) so maybe there's truth to it all.
Semi-duality is common among rationals from what I've noticed.
Most couples seem to be between the "positivist" types ESE-LSI and LIE-EII, likely because "positivist" types close the distance quicker. The "negativist" types like LII-EIE seems to have a more difficult time approaching each other and earning each other's trust, so these pairings don't seem to form naturally as often.
From the positives: similarity in lifestyles, both are either rational or irrational so meet each other's expectations here; the exto-intro complementarity is there; there is some attraction to each other's base function, the usual semi-duality stuff.
The negatives: dissimilarity in quadra values, which can affect the sense of humor; process-result trait isn't shared which is a big deal in some ways (link); some incompatibility in emotional and sexual expression, I've noticed that lack of interest with LIEs when it comes to EIIs that @Adam Strange was talking about but they still go with them when they are picking out a wife and figuring that the EII is presentable enough; the ESE-LSI pairs seem to be very common in eastern europe where LSI is viewed as a kind of ideal of a man so ESE women will deliberately go for them, however, if they happen to strongly disagree with something the LSI applies the typical beta methods for making the ESE comply and the ESE doesn't know, and will not, play 'victim' for the LSI which sometimes leads up to major fights between them and the ESE gets displaced, disagreements aside they can be very productive together as people of these types tends to be organized and hardworking on the average
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