Jeffrey Dahmer

[machintruc]

Google photos

ILI ?

[Joy]

how about psychopath?

ugh he's from my state

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Interesting feller.

I hate to be uhh... what's the word... but I think his parents were to blame. So oblivious to their own child. Thought him doing crazy shit to animals was just 'normal behavior' for a kid. Seemed scared of their child and turned the other way to real problems like so many parents. Still, I realize that parents do the best job they know how to do. But sometimes, I really do think it takes a village to raise a psychopath.

Also wasn't validated or respected for his natural orientation (homosexual) at all. His modus operandi of victims kind of reflects that as well. He was a typical self-loathing homosexual from a small no-nothing town that doesn't care about much of anything.

Saying just 'ugh psycopath' isn't a good way to learn about anybody.

Uh he seems to VI as ISFp to me kind of, or perhaps INTj/INFp?

[Slacker]

I think that level of psychosis is beyond mommy and daddy's fault, though I don't doubt they didn't help the situation. But yes they should have gotten him psychiatric help when he started torturing animals. That would have been a good thing.

[Joy]

This shit pisses me off:

One of Dahmer's victims escaped, only to be returned to him by police. When it was later publicized, there was widespread condemnation of the officers. In the early morning hours of May 27, 1991, 14-year-old Milwaukee Laotian Konerak Sinthasomphone (the younger brother of the boy Dahmer had molested) was discovered on the street, wandering nude. Reports of the boy's injuries varied. Dahmer told police that they had an argument while drinking, and that Sinthasomphone was his 19 year-old lover. Against the teenager's protests, police turned him over to Dahmer. They had no suspicions, but reported smelling a strange scent. That scent was later found to be bodies in the back of his room. Later that night Dahmer killed and dismembered Sinthasomphone, keeping his skull as a souvenir.

[Blaze]

i walked the dark side for years when i directed a forensic mental health unit....ugh....i can't even take part in stuff like this anymore. no more justice files, no more forensic files, no more anne rice novels...i'm done with the dark side. now it just makes me physically sick.

[olduser]

i think: ENTj, ENFj, and last INTp from V.I. impressions.

[machintruc]

Jeffrey Dahmer is EII.

[marooned]

then he would be the same type as you... and since you're a 4 now you feel sorry for 8s. oh dear.

[Strutopolis]

About 1,5 years ago, I was VI-typed as Jeffrey Damer and Im definitly ILE. Check it out:

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ng-skills.html

[Warlord]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErB0R4wlB64]YouTube - Jeffrey Dahmer Interview - Extended Footage[/ame]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mspEfYQxgYM]YouTube - Jeff Goldblum - Interview Live @ J&R[/ame]

Same type as Jeff Goldblum, and he's NeTi?

[JuJu]

In the interview he seems medicated, which makes it tougher to tell...

Te-INTp, (like the Craigslist Killer.)

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Before I begin my article discussion on why I think Jeffrey Dahmer was a Delta, let's make two things clear:

1. I'm not attacking the Delta quadra, or saying they are more likely to be serial killers or anything
2. I could be wrong (I doubt it though hehe), and I'm just mentally masturbating and making an arguement for the sake of a mutually respectful discussion. You can vehemently disagree all you want, but attacking or trolling me will not be tolerated, because quite frankly - I am not in the mood. And yes, I'm being sensitive. =D

So anyways....

Jeffrey Dahmer's victims were all men, and they were all (or most?) homosexual men to boot. And thirdly, they all were men who lived more stereotypical 'gay lifestyles' and went to gay bars and things like that.

So his victim profile was:

1. Male
2. Gay (he was gay himself, yeah serial killers can be gay too!)
3. The bar-type

So he was a sadistic psychopath. That much is certain. He was probably born that way, since as a kid there was reports of him doing weird things to animals which is always a sign of Dexter-ness. But why kill gay men who hang around gay bars? Why not kill women, or children? Or whores? Serial killers of course have a victim profile and to understand the Dahmer we have to understand his victims.

Here's how I think this is socionics related. A few people have made the argument that Beta and the 'stereotypical gay community' go together. Although I'm not really up its ass like you might think I am, I think this generalization is in fact, correct. The gay community was a beta movement, started by betas- for other betas. The pure general essence of everything about the gay community, gay bars, gay chat room, gay bath-houses, gay gay gay.... is Beta.

Jeffrey Dahmer being Delta, not Beta- was especially disgusted with the gay community and gay lifestyle. Due to internalized homophobia and wanting to be accepted as normal by their peers, even many other beta gay males hate the gay bar community thing, but if you are a delta gay guy, and a sociopath to boot- all that mixed together is going to create an extremely deathly mixture. This triggered him to specifically lure out gay guys in gay bars, ask them if he could take pictures of them nude- and then when they were alone at his apartment, do all sorts of dark things. Like eat their body parts, take out their hearts, and decapitate them and keep the boys' heads as trophies. (fun) Most people have heard the story a billion times before.

The innate psychopathy mixed with self-hatred for being gay, mixed with naturally hating those that were in a different quadra than he (in a generalized sense), was *why* he got so dark and twisted with his victims. Many serial killers didn't go as dark as he did, because they just didn't have so many factors working against them. (Or working for him, if you know you are evil and you're all 'yay jeffrey dahmer, kill that ******!')

I think this is an example of how we can protect our society and our community actually. If there's a boy and we sense psychopathy and sadism and higher levels of non-empathy for him at a young age, we can accurately predict who is victims will be when he grows up, based on his innate socionics type. People didn't put the effort to stop Jeffrey Dahmer before he did what they did, because they didn't care. If we don't care, then the world's worst serial killer will just end up killing us all while he's the only one left standing in something that is purely narcissistic. The world will never be as compassionate as I would like, but I at least do not want it to be destroyed by an highly intelligent and clever serial killer.

See here's my theory. Base empathy is what is stopping people from conflicting quadras from killing each other. But if you remove that natural empathy, then it will create a natural all-out brutal war between the conflicting quadras. Ashton would start going to Vero and Mune's house and trying to kill them instead of merely being a little smug and off-putting to alphas from his own house. (and vice-versa if you take away all the empathy from Alpha as well, or anybody) And well you naturally have more empathy for people in your own quadra anyway of course so even if all your empathy was taken away- you wouldn't want to go for people in your own quadra you'd want to go for people that weren't. More specifically and purely, you'd instinctively target those who were in conflicting quadras from yourself.

Plus: The dude just VIs as a Delta. Delta ISTp is my guess.

[Slacker]

I don't know much about him, but I do know gay Deltas. There are gay people of all types.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Yes but what do you think of the main idea that we are all hard-wired to go after those in conflicting quadras, if our empathy/compassion/carebear-ness or whatever, was somehow removed.

And yeah gay people can be all types, but social institutions and political organizations are rife with socionics biases I think.

[Slacker]

I don't know. I think it's hard to explain people that crazy with socionics.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Oh well, I guess my philosophy is, the more I understand crazy people, the less likely I am to be chopped up and put in another man's refrigerator. Because I do have a big heart and I don't want it to just make me serial killer food. Tee hee hee. <3

[Slacker]

ROFL <3

Well I certainly would not agree wtih anyone who would say he had to be Beta or couldn't be Delta. But it's possible he just went after whoever responded to his invitation to come home.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Yeah but empathy/sociopathy are on this scale. There's a method to most people's madness, like when people go dark, they select their victims both carefully, and instinctively. You know, the normal response when people treat you unfairly is to get depressed/angry at them, and fight back a little- lash out angrily at them, but you don't like start thinking in your head how you're gonna groom an entire situation to get them alone somewhere to put their body in a black trash bag. Unless.... you're a natural sociopath (which I believe is mostly genetic somehow but anybody can probably be made that way with enough training)

So even sociopaths have feelings, right, they just have feelings only for themselves. So they are gonna target people who have personally wronged them before.... and so somehow, he felt threatened and attacked by gay guys, and that's why he killed other gays. It wasn't just an emo 'woe is me im gay thing' like in other gays though I don't think. Otherwise he would have probably killed himself, even if he was a sociopath. lol.

[Blaze]

you could be on to something in your analysis, b&d. i don't disagree with an SLI typing, dahmer definitely seems introverted and logical. there was some speculation that he was "crazy" as in mentally ill, but i doubt it.

The Murder Room provides an excellent analysis of the vertical drop towards outright evil one can begin. see below for link to this excellent book.
http://www.amazon.com/Murder-Room-Sh...9735347&sr=8-1

dahmer seems like one of those at the very end of the long rope of evil. your analysis is a horizontal/latitudinal one which dovetails nicely with the intrapsychic model presented by professional forensic investigators in this book. let me know if you decide to read it.

blz

[intjguy]

Woops shoulda searched.

[ConcreteButterfly]

Wikipedia:
Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer (May 21, 1960 – November 28, 1994), also known as the Milwaukee Cannibal, was an American serial killer and sex offender, who committed the rape, murder, and dismemberment of seventeen men and boys between 1978 and 1991, with many of his later murders also involving necrophilia,^[1] cannibalism, and the permanent preservation of body parts—typically all or part of the skeletal structure.<sup>[2]

Edit: Found a better video of this guy, it's a relatively long documentary but worth a look:</sup>

[uncivilized]

SLI? Wasn't he a loner that seemed to have an Fi hidden agenda?

[ConcreteButterfly]

SLI? Wasn't he a loner that seemed to have an Fi hidden agenda?

I wouldn't be surprised, he was apparently very lonely and would kill people because he didn't want them to leave. For the same reason he'd eat their flesh, and try to turn them into zombies, which is creepy as fuck but would make some kind of twisted Fi-HA sense

He was a tragic figure IMO moreso than Ramirez or Bundy who seemed to genuinely enjoy killing, and had little remorse
Dahmer's actions seemed motivated by a fear of separation

Even the way he died was tragic. Being beaten to death after just a few years in prison, while the guards turned a blind eye. He should've been hospitalized.

[marooned]

agree w SLI.

[ConcreteButterfly]

agree w SLI.

Care to elaborate? I liked your Ted Bundy posts a lot, would love it if you would analyze Dahmer in the same way

[marooned]

the early years:

fascinated with physical anatomy, bodies, mystified by their innards... it wasn't about *thinking*... this is like some kind of physical/mechanical/anatomical (+ ) thing. it's very "hands on." and although i call this kind of thing a stereotype for it's also the case that some egos are all hands-on-touch-everything-explore-physically like this. they're taking from that data to fill a subjective world of somehow tangible impressions.

"there may have been some underlying feelings of violence." out of touch with his own violence. this can fit nicely with ignoring; with enneagram 9 (supposed repressed "instinct center") as well.

he describes his "general excitement" in his anatomical explorations with barely any "excitement" at all. he's repressing expression of positive emotionality - he's blocking external emotional output in general. PoLR for him.


a growing urge to kill people:

"looking for some way to find some fulfillment, some pleasure" <--seems ish, no? again lack of feeling of connection to his will or actions (or even to putting the damn breaks on). he "acted on his fantasies and that's where everything went wrong." but when he talks about it the mind/will that wanted to do that/chose to do it, isn't speaking at all. more ignoring?

"the feeling about when you are sort of glad about something but sort of not." <--this, and really his entire style imo, is coming from a place of - his internal feeling experience. it is all explained in quite a dry way. you could call it a "factual" way. presents this; is "unconscious."

"once i saw i had no choice but to face it, i decided to face it head on, and i gave a full confession." this fits with my impressions of SLI/E9/denial. denial is operating but once he was forced by circumstances to deal with that denial, he tackled it directly. he doesn't have weak after all. he's like a fucking rock. he doesn't look like someone who would struggle in a conflict. he can hold his own. he doesn't exude this strength in being able to handle the confrontations of the world, but it's there, suppressed and potent. he's out of touch with it, because id block. when it emerges, it is violent, out of control, and really something he might prefer to push back into the depths of the unconscious.

relief and being glad the secrets are gone - more content. it's very selfish and self-absorbed. he focuses on himself and his own internal feelings >>>> the feelings of others (over *any* other emotional content). he's not even noticing much or responding to the feelings of the interviewer it seems - other than maybe not wanting there to be any external feeling presentation in the exchange: let's just talk calmly and seriously about my internal feelings and my psychology. i feel like this is one of the annoying things mobilizing can do that perhaps only ego-block types can at all tolerate. lol


taking full responsibility:

"i get angry with other people who think they have *a right* to blame my parents for what happened." this is the most adamant he becomes, and it's driven again by . his stance about holding oneself accountable for one's actions is also . none of this is because of the "what" of it - i mean most people would defend their parents against false accusations, or be angered by people butting in like they have the right to make such claims. lots of people care about personal accountability. but when he says these things, and since i already think he has weak ethics, it seems like an HA thing. many an HA person can go on moral rants regarding their personal feelings about what just isn't right. and that's what he seems to be doing too.


eta: overall what i find interesting about dahmer is i (being obbbvvvvviously an expert psychologist ) don't see him as a sociopath. and he has *some* contact with ethics. he's really quite disturbing because of this. but i guess maybe he was very dissociated? (another enneagram 9 issue) or maybe he presents a different kind of sociopath? he doesn't seem to have any remorse at all.


ps: i also still didn't watch enough... like there are full interviews with him, and i haven't watched them. and i'm not really sure about my interpretations here... they seem too surface-level. but if dahmer is delta ST, it might fit with that. most delta STs i've observed have been pretty straight forward in self-presentation. they aren't playing image games or doing elaborate things to throw you off the scent. like you can just ask a question and get a direct answer. but of course i am not thinking of pathological delta STs in this.

[Jake]

ISTj

[The Reality Denialist]

SLE
Was apparently also a class clown. One of his worst crimes...
Dark side of beta horribly manifested. [every quadra has dark side and I don't have tendencies of being a mad scientist ]

[Kill4Me]

LII-Ne 5w6

[Lolita]

I think he’s SLI but for different reasons and it’s nothing to do with Quadra aristocracy, although I find that supposition to be fascinating.

Based upon his limited interviews, he took home many boys and men over the years and didn’t kill most of them. He was very handsome and fit, was considered a catch and could have his pick. He consistently showed in both home videos and prison interviews that he was lethargic and not all that motivated to do anything (Si). He didn’t want to inflict pain or suffering on his victims (Si) but he would only resort to violence (ignoring Se) when the victims wanted to leave him (mob Fi). The ones killed, he said he loved them so much and wanted to make them stay with him (mob Fi) and experimented on turning them into zombies (Te to Ne weirdo experimentation) just so they couldn’t leave him (tapped into that ignoring Se). Based on that, he was rather an efficient and clean killer (Te), hated the loud gay nightlife (PoLR Fe), wanted love/personal connection badly (mob Fi), and when it all turned upside down and he couldn’t get what he wanted he resorted to violence (ignoring Se).

[myresearch]

xLI-Pi by Pi I mean both enhanced Si and Ni.

[on a peaceful hiatus]

IEI

[nifl]

clearly a logical type, maybe closer to Ti
not SLI, but maybe LSI

[Aster]

IEI

my identical!

[Popcorn]

He's Maximum creepiness. The Netflix show made me feel extremely uncomfortable. I had to spot watching it multiple times and I only kept watching out of morbid curiousity because it was based on a real killer. The only time I've felt that way for a horror movie was Terrifier where the clown does something horrible to a woman with a hardware tool. The movie was off at that point...never finished it.

[inaLim]

Yikes

Netflix’s highly successful series by Ryan Murphy and Ian Brenner, Monster: The Jeffrey Dahmer Story, offers a compelling picture of Jeffrey’s early life. His mother’s pregnancy was besieged with mood swings, for which she was treated with a concoction of “26 pills” per day. We do not know with any certainty how this affected the development of Jeffrey’s brain, but we do know that the nervous system unfolds in the embryo during critical stages that are harmfully affected by medication. The standard psychotropic medication for depression and anxiety in 1959 and 1960 when Jeffrey was in utero given to Joyce was Milltown. Not only neurotoxic to both mother and child but physiologically addictive, Jeffrey would have experienced medication withdrawal upon birth. Other toxic drugs used were hormones, barbiturates, and morphine.

Unfortunately, Joyce suffered postpartum depression further putting Jeffrey at serious risk for attachment difficulties; maternal attachment being the foundation of all subsequent relationships with severe abandonment fears being an unfortunate sequela for Jeffrey. His parents fought viciously in full view of him. His mother’s psychiatric struggles continued as did her suicide attempts. A double hernia repair at age 4 terrified him. A favored, younger brother was born. School teachers reported Jeffrey to be exceptionally shy and fearful.

His father, Lionel, tried to be a stabilizing factor for his son but he was away from home a great deal. When around, he created a strong bond with his son by teaching Jeffrey about the abundant animal life in the woods around their home and by dissecting road kill together. After Jeffrey’s capture, he spoke of his own struggles with murderous fantasies and depression as a younger man. He empathized with his son’s shyness and loneliness but never imagined what might have been brewing in his son’s mind. Regretfully, he admits, he never inquired. He banked on Jeffrey being like him.


His parents divorced. His father moved out and Joyce disobeyed a court order leaving Jeffrey alone while still in high school.
By the age of 15, Jeffrey drank alcohol openly in school. Drinking excessively as he did, whatever control Jeffrey mustered to manage his loneliness, and developing sexual proclivities would be eroded by the disinhibiting effects of alcoholism on his brain. Much research shows how alcohol use affects the forming teenage brain, with dangers including violent behavior, injury, and death. Alcohol use accompanied every phase of Dahmer's dark and deadly passage.


https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...jeffrey-dahmer

[youfloweryourfeast]

i agree he's delta and SLI if His fi doesn't seem strong enough for EII he seems logical too.

[gary69]

ILI-Ni

[Finaplex]

I think he’s SLI but for different reasons and it’s nothing to do with Quadra aristocracy, although I find that supposition to be fascinating.

Based upon his limited interviews, he took home many boys and men over the years and didn’t kill most of them. He was very handsome and fit, was considered a catch and could have his pick. He consistently showed in both home videos and prison interviews that he was lethargic and not all that motivated to do anything (Si). He didn’t want to inflict pain or suffering on his victims (Si) but he would only resort to violence (ignoring Se) when the victims wanted to leave him (mob Fi). The ones killed, he said he loved them so much and wanted to make them stay with him (mob Fi) and experimented on turning them into zombies (Te to Ne weirdo experimentation) just so they couldn’t leave him (tapped into that ignoring Se). Based on that, he was rather an efficient and clean killer (Te), hated the loud gay nightlife (PoLR Fe), wanted love/personal connection badly (mob Fi), and when it all turned upside down and he couldn’t get what he wanted he resorted to violence (ignoring Se).

This is a good take on the situation.